Speed Graphic with 30cm Heliar

[RTucker]

I just came across in an antique store, a wartime 4x5 Speed Graphic, with its all black finish. It has a voiglander 30cm f4.5 heliar lens mounted on it. I was just wondering if this is a good useable lens, for the bellows on this camera. It seems pretty stretched out. They want $375 for the outfit, but it might be interesting for portraits. Any thoughts.

[Dan Fromm]

Wartime should mean Anniversary Speed Graphic. According to the bible, 10th edition, the Anny's maximum extension is 13 1/2" (= 342 mm). This is 1.14 focal lengths. The highest magnification you can get on film is 1:6.6 or so, i.e., the image on film will can be at most 1/6th or so the size of the object. This seems awfully loose for portraiture, but I could be mistaken.

Good usable lens for distant subjects if in good order, though.

[Leigh]

...the Anny's maximum extension is 13 1/2" (= 342 mm). This is 1.14 focal lengths. The highest magnification you can get on film is 1:6.6...
Without knowing the flange focal distance of the lens you cannot calculate the extension percentage.

- Leigh

[mdarnton]

Dan and Leigh are just trying to distract you while they try to figure out where you live so they can beat you to it. At that price, the camera body is free, if the equipment is in good condition.

I had a 300mm Heliar on a Super D, and made a 3" extension tube to mount it, so that it barely focused infinity, and then went up pretty close for portraits. Lacking details, or a photo of the item in question, I wouldn't be too fast to say it won't work.

[RTucker]

The camera and lens are in great shape, one of the best I have seen. It also comes with a grafmatic holder and two bag mags, which I have never seen before.

[jp]

Practically speaking they shouldn't go together, but it's a good price for the combination. If you want to do portraits, sell the 300mm heliar and buy something 200-210mm range. Check the portrait threads to see what people use for various portrait styles.

[EdSawyer]

Bottom line: it's well priced, you can buy it and make money reselling it, or use it as is.

[Dan Fromm]

Without knowing the flange focal distance of the lens you cannot calculate the extension percentage.

- Leigh
Leigh, of course you're right. That's said, I don't think the rule of thumb I applied gave a badly wrong answer.

I just took a look at sales of Heliars for large format on eBay. I had no idea people valued longer ones that much. Still not for me, even as a speculation. Go for it, RTucker! If, that is, it is in good condition.

[Leigh]

I don't think the rule of thumb I applied gave a badly wrong answer.
No. Certainly not "badly" wrong.

The difference between 1:6 and 1:4 is significant for portraiture, and perhaps important to the OP.

With longer lenses, the location of the rear node moves around all over the place. If the rear node is forward by even 50mm, that would make a huge difference in this camera. I don't know the design of the Heliar.

Do you have any literature that gives the flange focal distance for the Heliar?

BTW, the Google hits that I've found for the 4.5/30cm Heliar indicate that it's a soft-focus lens. True?
If so, that argues more strongly that the entire camera set was configured for portraiture.

- Leigh

[RTucker]

I have found out that there is two versions of the lens. The regular f4.5, and one called the Universal Heliar which is the soft focus lens

[toolbox]

If the camera has a regular spring back, the bag mags won't work on it (they fit a Graflex back). The Grafmatic works a lot better on a Graflok back, but you can usually squeeze them under a spring back. That said, if the bag mags are in good shape (meaning the septums are all there and straight, leather is good), they're worth about $50 to $80 each... Anniversary Speeds are getting kind of hard to find in nice shape...most of the ones for sale right now are pretty beat, or way over priced.

[mdarnton]

The regular Heliar has a very slight glow wide open, surrounding crisp sharpness. The glow goes away quickly as you stop down, but the photos retain a lovely plasticity. I sold mine (300/4.5, barrel) last year for $350, getting a good price for it fast, and have come to think that I made a huge mistake.

[RTucker]

Just picked up the camera. Its a nice set up, the lens is quite impressive looking mounted on the camera. This is my first speed graphic, so there's going to be a bit of a learning curve to figure out how to operate the shutter, without fear of breaking it.
Thanks to all for the advice.

[Mark MacKenzie]

I'll trade you a 127 Ektar which is what should go on that camera for that old helliar....

Just kidding, congrats! I love my Anniversary, my first 4x5.
Mark

[Leigh]

Just picked up the camera. Its a nice set up, the lens is quite impressive looking mounted on the camera. This is my first speed graphic, so there's going to be a bit of a learning curve to figure out how to operate the shutter, without fear of breaking it.
Thanks to all for the advice.
Great score. Congratulations.

You'll find the best collection of information, and probably an owner's manual at www.graflex.org

That is not a particularly busy site. If you ask a question, expect to wait a few days for an answer.

- Leigh

[DrTang]

Bottom line: it's well priced, you can buy it and make money reselling it, or use it as is.

to me


if that 300 is in a compound shutter - I WANT IT

(assuming you don't)... I seriously doubt you will be able to focus at infintiy, much less portrait distance on a speed with that lens

I do have a cooke 12" tele that I could offer up that would work though

[Steven Tribe]

I have found out that there is two versions of the lens. The regular f4.5, and one called the Universal Heliar which is the soft focus lens

Actually there are three.

-regular F4.5
-rare F3.5
-Universal Heliar F4.5

In addition, many of the later Heliars use the other Voigtländer lens design - the Dynar - even though they are called Heliars.

[coisasdavida]

I can get a 300mm 4.5 Tessar focused around 2 meters with my Speed Graphic. You can see the lensboard has about 1 inch of thickness behind the flange. I'm afraid the picture doesn't show full extension.

https://farm6.staticflickr.com/5118/14169553962_01fa1eee55_b.jpg