Short variable soft focus lens

[evan clarke]

Looking for suggestions for a short focal length (150mm or less) variable focus lens..Thanks, Evan

[Steven Tribe]

There are a few "branded" soft lens that were made in 8" or less - but not many. They are, I think, even more difficult to find than the larger sizes.

All landscape meniscus lenses can be used/modified to show soft focus, when at the full aperture, or when the factory aperture is removed, This includes all the lenses mounted on the budget versions of 4x5"/9x12cm cameras made in the 1890 - 1910 period. Best know are the UK/French landscape meniscus lens which were made in this size without shutters and often with removeable apertures. Late ones, like the T,T & H RVP (with larger aperture than is normal), recognised the pictorial possibilities. Softness control is by aperture control. Price range for these is enormous!

[evan clarke]

Thanks much, I have a ton of meniscii but was looking for something with an adjusment like a Verito or a Cooke with variable adjustment, was there such a thing?

[Jason Greenberg Motamedi]

There was a 120mm Imagon.

[evan clarke]

Thanks, I have a 150. Have a ton of SF lenses. I am looking for a shorter focal length with an adjustable "fuzzulator"

[Jason Greenberg Motamedi]

I am confused, the verito doesn't have an adjustable fuzzulator, does it?

[Dan Fromm]

Jason, the catalog claims that fuzziness is controlled by the diaphragm. Stop down, sharpen. Open up, soften.

[Jason Greenberg Motamedi]

Right, I thought he was suggesting something other than aperture control. If so, the Graf Variable came in 5.5 to 6.5" The other lenses I know that have adjustable softness (Cooke, Universal Heliar, Velostigmat) didn't come this short. They aren't really soft, but the Dallmeyer portraits came quite short (notably the 2B and 2C) and they have the adjustable diffusion on back. It doesn't do very much.

[Amedeus]

Not too many soft focus lenses out there that are shorter than 150mm.

I have a 150 and 190mm Hermagis Eidoscope, the 120mm Imagon Rodenstock, the 6 1/8" Verito and the Pentax 67 120mm SF ... the latter pretty much behaves like a Verito lens, very soft at f/3.5 ... I'm using these on a MF camera with digital back. Also use the Mamiya 145mm SF for Mamiya 645 style cameras ... the latter lens is quite complex to use, not one of my favorites.

YMMV.

[Steven Tribe]

The small Graf variable was the only one I could think of - not that I have ever actually seen it!



They aren't really soft, but the Dallmeyer portraits came quite short (notably the 2B and 2C) and they have the adjustable diffusion on back

The 2C and 3C were never made with adjustable soft focus. Wouldn't have been possible, I think, as they kept the original layout of the Voigtländer Petzval's rear lens pair. I always thought that it was low sales, shallow DOF and restless subjects that were the reason - but it could have have been technical optical problems in a redesign. I know that some C's have found their way into the "Soft lens sales register" and perhaps they should be there due to "restless subjects and restricted DOF"!

[Steven Tribe]

The dearth of soft lenses under about 8" is basically because they were sold as portrait lenses - where this length is considered the minimum for 4x5".
An example could be the B&L Portrait Plastigmat size 0 which was made for non-studio "serious amateurs" working in 4x5 or postcard size - focal length 9".

[evan clarke]

The small Graf variable was the only one I could think of - not that I have ever actually seen it!


The 2C and 3C were never made with adjustable soft focus. Wouldn't have been possible, I think, as they kept the original layout of the Voigtländer Petzval's rear lens pair. I always thought that it was low sales, shallow DOF and restless subjects that were the reason - but it could have have been technical optical problems in a redesign. I know that some C's have found their way into the "Soft lens sales register" and perhaps they should be there due to "restless subjects and restricted DOF"!

I have a Graf and the little one would be terrific. I got on this kick because I find I really like my longer one.

[evan clarke]

Thanks much, I have a ton of meniscii but was looking for something with an adjusment like a Verito or a Cooke with variable adjustment, was there such a thing?

Old man, and dizzy! I never had a Verito, I have a 12" Velostigmat but I know the shorter ones Don't have the adjustment.

[evan clarke]

Thanks all, I just wasn't sure if such a thing existed. Jim Galli has played with screwing the front element of more conventional lenses to achieve Soft focus.

[Tim Meisburger]

I am afraid to ask exactly how he achieves soft focus by screwing the front element of a lens. Sounds gross though...

[Jim Galli]

I should probably stay out of this discussion after that last.

There's always this little gem (http://www.largeformatphotography.info/forum/showthread.php?67483-Antique-4X5-Achromatic-Meniscus-Lens-in-modern-Copal-Shutter!). No, I don't have one ready just now, but 13 pages of success! Quite sharp stopped down. 101mm

[evan clarke]

I just dug out all of my strainer lenses, I told you I was an old forgetful man. My Imagons are 200 and 250, I have two Fuli 180s and a Fuji 250. I'll always grab the Fujis over the Imagons, especially the 250. The 200 imagon is really skimpy on coverage. After reading the literature this morning it occurred to me that coverage would be the issue with classic soft focus lenses in a short focal length.

[evan clarke]

I am afraid to ask exactly how he achieves soft focus by screwing the front element of a lens. Sounds gross though...
I think he used a spacer..check his site.

[evan clarke]

I should probably stay out of this discussion after that last.

There's always this little gem (http://www.largeformatphotography.info/forum/showthread.php?67483-Antique-4X5-Achromatic-Meniscus-Lens-in-modern-Copal-Shutter!). No, I don't have one ready just now, but 13 pages of success! Quite sharp stopped down. 101mm
Ha! I think I bought one of these from you..

[evan clarke]

Ah, well, I was curious about a lens like the Graf in a short length and you have all answered my question. I'll just have to stand farther away with what I have :)

[Hugo Zhang]

I don't know what format you are going to use this lens, but there is a 70mm f/3.5 Eidoscope on ebay asking for a princely sum.

[Amedeus]

That one covers 35mm ...

[goamules]

For some reason there were very few soft focus lenses for medium or small format. I wish you luck finding such a lens.

It just adds to the incredible paradox I've noticed:

"People want soft focus from the intrinsic resolution of large format lenses and contact prints.
People want high resolution, razor sharp images from tiny 35mm lenses and 25X enlargement prints."
Garrett

[Dan Fromm]

Funny you should mention that little Eidoscope, Hugo. I have a 1936 or so Berthiot catalog that lists 5, 7.5, 15, 19, 27.5, 37.5, 48 and 63.5 cm Eidoscopes. The first two are f/3.5, the 63.5 is f/5 and the others are f/4.5.

The two little 'uns are listed as taking lenses for cine cameras, format not mentioned. They're all quite narrow angle lenses. The OP hasn't said what format he wants to use a short fuzzy lens on, but Berthiot recommends the 15 cm Eidoscope for 6.5x9. There's a hint.

[William Whitaker]

One of the advantages of 8x10 is that there is a much larger range of interesting lenses from which to choose.

I would imagine that 8x10 was the format du jour back when these lenses were made and that 4x5 was considered an amateur's format. Hence lenses were produced to appeal to the studios (and the market) that would use them. That's all speculative; I have no documentation and I wasn't around then.

[evan clarke]

Yup..That seems to be true..

[Struan Gray]

The Cooke and its imitators work by asymmetrising a triplet. There are gazillions of single-coated triplets being sold for pennies attached to 35 mm, 127 and 120/220 cameras from the 50s and 60s. Focal lengths from 45 mm up to 135 mm or so. They even come with a focussing helical.

Cheap enough to get one, and see what happens as you unscrew the front or rear element.

If you want the Tessar look, the better models of the same sorts of cameras often had Tessar lenses instead of triplets. Just do it.

[evan clarke]

I want it to cober 4x5 and I particulary like the way the Graf operates. Have several short meniscii and a couple of casket sets..Just wanted the fuzzulator. Doesn't seem like there's anything shorter than 7-71/2 inches..

[Struan Gray]

135 mm lenses were common on 6x9 and some 9x12 folding cameras. They would cover 4x5 at portrait distances.

There were 120-ish mm Dagors, and pre-Dagor doppel anastigmats from Goerz, which are pretty fuzzy with spherical aberration wide open.

If you want multi-coating, Rodenstock Geronars (also sold as Caltar E) come as 150 mm triplets.

Then there's always your pantyhose....