DIY LF film holder

[koh303]

A few weeks ago i read a thread that had several links to blogs and sites where folks were showing step by step sheet film holder creations.
Can someone point me to the right thread (or provide the links again)?

Thanks

[Steven Tribe]

OP is Daniel Stone - title is "I'm making myself some film holders(and I need some" last post march last year.
Advanced search - titles only - with the text I have given.

I have bumped it to reappear here!

[koh303]

Thanks, after reading this again today, and hours of google yesterday, i did find the page i was looking for is gone.
It was a page off the blog of colin graham.
I wonder if anyone else has a photo step by step building a holder guide...?

[Bruce Barlow]

Egad! Why bother?

Friend Richard Ritter tells me of all the precise setups needed to create the parts for a film holder - and he knows what he's doing better than just about all of us put together, with the tools and tooling to make them. It is gruesomely labor intensive, by his account.

Life's too short for that much work and aggravation when there are so many pictures to be made, and so many good holders available for sale.

[Tin Can]

+1


Egad! Why bother?

Friend Richard Ritter tells me of all the precise setups needed to create the parts for a film holder - and he knows what he's doing better than just about all of us put together, with the tools and tooling to make them. It is gruesomely labor intensive, by his account.

Life's too short for that much work and aggravation when there are so many pictures to be made, and so many good holders available for sale.

[VPooler]

But what if you want to shoot an odd format. Or ULF. You seen the prices on holders of 8x10 inches and up? Im not made of money!
Sorry for the rant, I have an ULF project at hand myself and I am in dire need of holders. There is really no use in making 4x5 holders or even 5x7 but if you dont need the standard DDS holder, you could start by buying various thicknesses of hardwood veneer. Take one thicker sheet, that makes the central base. Take some thinner ones, lets say, the thickness of film plus a bit extra, cut them to narrow strips to make edges. Now take the same veneer or maybe a bit thicker, cut some broader strips than previous etc...you see where I am going with this - you are building it in layers. A sheet of thin aluminium will make the darkslide and some beeswax on the edges will make it slide better. Totally doable.

[goamules]

I've found all the rare film holders I've needed, with patience. A Rochester wholeplate that needed one of the three different sizes that were made. An Anthony 8x10 wetplate camera than needed a tambar back for plates. Eventually I found what I needed. Still, nothing wrong with trying to build something, anything, yourself. Sometimes you may have to.

To me, I would first find a holder before deciding to shoot an obscure size, then a lens, then try to wrap a camera around it. Holders and lenses are the hardest to find. A lot of us have obscure size cameras, and the most common query for ULF is "what lens covers something-X-something?" And "where can I get a holder for an [8X18, 16x20, etc] camera?"

[Noah B]

I'd do whatever the hell you want to, Ritter didn't get to where he is today by not trying to learn something new. Chamonix makes beautiful film holders, I'd get one and start there if I were to embark on such an endeavor. Maybe even buy some crappy wooden film holders on sleezbay and take them apart?

[Dan Dozer]

I tried making film holders for my 8 x 20 camera and it was a constant struggle in dealing with potential light leaks at the two corners on the loading end and also at the end where the darkslide goes in. I was to the point where I was having to try to drape the dark cloth over the holder every time I was making an exposure to try to prevent light leak problems. Try pulling a dark slide out of an 8 x 20 holder with a big dark cloth over it. While it did work, it was extremely cumbersome with a camera that big and I eventually broke down and ordered some holder from Chamonix. Paying the high cost for big holders was much more feasible tha never knowing until I developed the negs whether they were OK or ruined with light leaks.

[VPooler]

Well, I simply cant chip out half or more of my monthly salary for one measly holder.

[Brian C. Miller]

A while back there was a thread on cheap 11x14 film holder on eBay (http://www.largeformatphotography.info/forum/showthread.php?95463-Cheap-11x14-film-holders-on-ebay). The maker is in Europe, and I presume that he may still be making holders.

[normanv]

Whenever somebody talks about making their own equipment there are always so many people saying, why bother?...the equipment is there already....it is too much trouble......it is too difficult etc...etc. When will these people realise that some of us like the challenge, don't have loads of money, or just want to do it ourselves. If you can't offer practical advice just keep out of the thread and leave it to the people who are interested in DIY.

[Tim Meisburger]

+1 - Tim

[dsphotog]

Plywood might not be so bad... I've seen warped plastic holders.

[Tim Meisburger]

What would make sense is for someone to grind the molding head needed for this profile, then mill stock out of a suitable wood and sell it by the linear foot. Then you could just buy a kit and do any size. If I was in the US would do this, although having the heads ground would be much cheaper here.

[Brian C. Miller]

Then you could just buy a kit and do any size.

Ok, I want 6ft by 4ft!

Or maybe I need a different approach than a normal film holder...

[VPooler]

Whenever somebody talks about making their own equipment there are always so many people saying, why bother?...the equipment is there already....it is too much trouble......it is too difficult etc...etc. When will these people realise that some of us like the challenge, don't have loads of money, or just want to do it ourselves. If you can't offer practical advice just keep out of the thread and leave it to the people who are interested in DIY.

Yes, that is the problem in my case - most of the things a lot of people consider affordable or cheap cost me a month or two's salary. No kidding. The cost of one ULF holder costs more than i spend on food in one month. Should I stay out of 11x14 because I don't live in a country where salaries are high? I don't think so. I already bargained my way into 4x5, I can surely make my way into ULF.


Plywood might not be so bad... I've seen warped plastic holders.

Proper sealing and gluing techniques should rectify that problem


What would make sense is for someone to grind the molding head needed for this profile, then mill stock out of a suitable wood and sell it by the linear foot. Then you could just buy a kit and do any size. If I was in the US would do this, although having the heads ground would be much cheaper here.

Yes! My idea exactly! Just add the bottoms and darkslides and some velvet for light-tight seals and you are good to go!

[el french]

Does the ULF film holder actually have to be very rigid? Any warping should be removed by clamping it to the camera back.

[Tin Can]

I use drywall screws.

:)

kidding

It could be somewhat flexible but too much flex and it will start changing FP.


Does the ULF film holder actually have to be very rigid? Any warping should be removed by clamping it to the camera back.

[normanv]

Surely the larger you go the greater the depth of focus and the less critical things become?

[koh303]

Surely the larger you go the greater the depth of focus and the less critical things become?
shhh...don't give away the trade secretes....

[Lachlan 717]

Yes, that is the problem in my case - most of the things a lot of people consider affordable or cheap cost me a month or two's salary. No kidding. The cost of one ULF holder costs more than i spend on food in one month. Should I stay out of 11x14 because I don't live in a country where salaries are high? I don't think so. I already bargained my way into 4x5, I can surely make my way into ULF.


Do you intend to make your own film? Or do you intend to shoot Xray? Because buying photographic film will leave you hungry.

Seems to me that your logic is flawed when you write "I already bargained my way into 4x5, I can surely make my way into ULF". Given the [relatively] common use of 4x5, it is not too difficult to "bargain" your way in. However, ULF is a totally different beast. There are significantly fewer users of these formats, and this is historically true as well, meaning that there's not the stock of equipment out there.

If you are as strapped for $$ as you write, I doubt these are the formats for you. Film is more expensive. Cameras are more expensive. Lenses are generally more expensive. Processing costs more. Printing costs more. I know this as I have made the change. Make sure that you understand these considerations.

[Lachlan 717]

Surely the larger you go the greater the depth of focus and the less critical things become?

You might want to check this theory...

[coisasdavida]

Does the ULF film holder actually have to be very rigid? Any warping should be removed by clamping it to the camera back.

That's what I was thinking when making them with gatorfoam and crescent board, I haven't finished my camera yet, I'll have an answer before the end of the year.

[Tim Meisburger]

Should be pretty simple to make one sided holders out of foam core. Just mark the slide so you don't pull it all the way out (a la Fuji instant). One big problem people have is matching the distance from the ground glass to film plane, but this can be avoided if you are making a camera, as you can just make the glass with the same materials as the holder. In other words, you don't need a specific distance, just a consistent one.

Press on!

[VPooler]

I already have a lens (360mm Apo-Germinar) that I got for free and I intend to shoot paper, x-ray film, whatever I can get my hands on. I have several well-equipped machine shops at the university so making parts is not that big of an issue. Simple box camera design, so I don't go insane over making or worse - buying, bellows. There are materials just laying around for free, so the cost will not be that high. I have a lumber yard nearby, where I could get some hardwood veneer for a bargain to make film holders. Printing is almost free at the community darkroom. There is a symbolic monthly fee and if you want some specific paper you have to buy it yourself. Glad a Foma reseller is a member of the club there so paper comes cheap. If I can make the holders I am good to go, rest is easy.



Do you intend to make your own film? Or do you intend to shoot Xray? Because buying photographic film will leave you hungry.

Seems to me that your logic is flawed when you write "I already bargained my way into 4x5, I can surely make my way into ULF". Given the [relatively] common use of 4x5, it is not too difficult to "bargain" your way in. However, ULF is a totally different beast. There are significantly fewer users of these formats, and this is historically true as well, meaning that there's not the stock of equipment out there.

If you are as strapped for $$ as you write, I doubt these are the formats for you. Film is more expensive. Cameras are more expensive. Lenses are generally more expensive. Processing costs more. Printing costs more. I know this as I have made the change. Make sure that you understand these considerations.

[normanv]

Re: DIY LF film holder






"Surely the larger you go the greater the depth of focus and the less critical things become?
You might want to check this theory... "

Could you explain?

[moto-uno]

I too would like to hear this explanation !
Regards,Peter

[coisasdavida]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Depth_of_focus

[gardnep]

There is an article called "Construction of an 8 x 10 Field View Camera" by James Vail on the net. While he does not go into detail on constructing dark slides, there is a comprehensive diagram at the end of the article called "8 x 10 Film Holder" showing the components that I assume can be modified for other sizes.

[gardnep]

Try www.f265.org/main/showthread.php?12458-making-film-holder-need.idea
Dead simple design using mdf and velcro for the light trap. I'm going this way.

[jbenedict]

There is an article called "Construction of an 8 x 10 Field View Camera" by James Vail on the net. While he does not go into detail on constructing dark slides, there is a comprehensive diagram at the end of the article called "8 x 10 Film Holder" showing the components that I assume can be modified for other sizes.

http://www.noahhuber.com/wp-content/uploads/construction-of-an-8-x-10-field-view-camera.pdf

Seeing his results might be a little intimidating- he's quite the cabinet/furniture maker- but the article is interesting.

[Brian C. Miller]

Try www.f265.org/main/showthread.php?12458-making-film-holder-need.idea
Dead simple design using mdf and velcro for the light trap. I'm going this way.

Try this link instead:
making film holder..need idea... (http://www.f295.org/main/showthread.php?12458-making-film-holder-need.idea)

[stawastawa]

There is a book titled Primitive Photography that shows how to make film holders (and simple sliding box and folding cameras)
http://www.focalpress.com/books/details/9780240804613/

[grzybu]

Inspired by this thread and by my old wooden holder breaking apart I've decided to try to make my own 18x24cm holder for my diy camera.
I've made it using MDF board from broken photo frames and of course velcro as light trap.
Dark slide is made of quite thick plastic document cover.
The only tools needed are: scissors, crafting knife, pencil and ruler.
I still see some small light leaks at the bottom, but film loading and unloading is really easy.
There are no scratches on very delicate x-ray film too.
There are two velcro layers: one under dark slide and one on top and there are no light leaks on top of the holder.
I still have to make small changes to fix light leaks at the bottom, but I already have some ideas.
This is how it looks so far:

https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7333/14132495151_61d3d0c7fc_o.jpg

https://farm3.staticflickr.com/2912/13949200768_c8e8738257_o.jpg

https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7303/14132495241_c24829d662_o.jpg

https://farm6.staticflickr.com/5466/14155886173_778b91c3bf_o.jpg

[Leigh]

Surely the larger you go the greater the depth of focus and the less critical things become?
Unfortunately, just the opposite, for the same reason DoF in LF is much less than DoF in 35mm.

DoF decreases as lens focal length increases. LF cameras use much longer lenses than 35mm.

- Leigh

[jb7]

Surely the larger you go the greater the depth of focus and the less critical things become?

Exactly- Depth of focus has nothing to do with film format and everything to do with the length of the lens you're using- the longer the lens, the more depth of focus. Depth of focus is less for short lenses, greater for long lenses. Depth of field is greater for short lenses and less for long lenses.

Focusing accuracy (meaning registration of the image on the ground glass compared to the image made on film) becomes less critical as the image size gets larger, particularly if that image is to be used for contact printing, which is a real world option when using larger film.

Those film holders look nicely cut, I had thought of making holders the same way, at one time- Hope they work ok.
Looks like they could use some shellac...

[Jim Jones]

Depth of focus is a function of f/number, not necessarily focal length. Critical dimensions in LF film holders are looser than for smaller formats.

[Jac@stafford.net]

Making your own film holder is futile. I am sure there are many who would be happy to send you the real thing. write me jac@stafford.net

[Joe Smigiel]

I think the critical problem is attempting to make a film holder that adheres to some specification for modern holders. If you were to make your own groundglass frame and film holder at the same time and don't care about maintaining someone else's standard or maintaining a very thin profile, building becomes a lot easier. Layering veneer strips of different width lets channels for darkslides and recessed areas for light baffles form easily. Also, do you need the holder to be double-sided? That's convenient in the field and again relates to cutting down bulk, but it complicates any build.