Vitax 16" w/ #5 Wollensak Studio Shutter / tiny aperture knob needed

[Dustyman]

Just received delivery of a beautiful 16" Vitax. It's missing the small knobs to facilitate moving the aperture ring. I can do it, but its very difficult since the ring is smooth with nothing to grip on to. That tiny knob seems pretty essential. I see two tiny machined holes where the knob(s) should go.
Anyone have one (or two), or can suggest a suitable substitute?

Many thanks.

[goamules]

I would take the shutter or lens to a Home Depot, and try out machine screws until you find the right one. Then get a small metal cylinder or bushing that fits on the screw. Screw them on and it will work to move the iris.

[Dustyman]

Thanks, Garrett. I'll probably just go and bring back a selection of machine screws. Rather not lug this lovely and massive chunk of glass and brass around : )



I would take the shutter or lens to a Home Depot, and try out machine screws until you find the right one. Then get a small metal cylinder or bushing that fits on the screw. Screw them on and it will work to move the iris.

[Gundlach]

Is your new vitax this one? 301128011407. If so very pretty. I love mine!

[Dustyman]

Yes, one and the same. It looks even more stunning up close. For a big lens that's nearly a century old (I think), it does't look like it was ever really used.
Frankly, I was shocked at how nice it was when I unpacked it. I guess I alway expect the worse.
Can't wait to start using it. I'll be picking up a Century Master Studio stand over the weekend to sit a 11x14 Deardorff on (w/8x10 back). Finally getting it off a table in my basement. I got the camera specifically to use big heavy lenses on.
Would love to see shots you've made with it (or anybody out there). Perhaps I should start a Vitax 16" images thread. Frankly, that's not a bad idea, to start *specific* lens/images threads. That way we can all see how specific lenses render images, using many submitted examples. I think that would be a useful research tool. Or has this been done?


Is your new vitax this one? 301128011407. If so very pretty. I love mine!

[Jim C.]

Be careful of screws on old lenses, I doubt HD would have them that small,
I could be wrong, but my experience with HD for machine screws
has always been a waste of time, I'd rather order a box 100 from McMaster
at least they'll have them.

The thread may be an odd one, in working on my Volute shutters some
of the screws defy matching for standard machine screws, they may
be watch screw threads or metric.

[Dustyman]

Thanks Jim. Good point. So I'll throw this question out there: Anybody know the exact machine screw size for the tiny aperture knob(s) on the front of Wollensak Studio 5 shutters?



Be careful of screws on old lenses, I doubt HD would have them that small,
I could be wrong, but my experience with HD for machine screws
has always been a waste of time, I'd rather order a box 100 from McMaster
at least they'll have them.

The thread may be an odd one, in working on my Volute shutters some
of the screws defy matching for standard machine screws, they may
be watch screw threads or metric.

[goamules]

Other than someone unscrewing one, and happening to have a thread gauge, and a lens the exact same year, no one knows. Wollensak are a late American company, and should be standardized to modern thread pitches. I would say you'd easily find a fit.

[William Whitaker]

Is this lens in a large (like a #5) Studio shutter? I'm trying to picture the lens as I used to have one.

Come to think of it, a picture would be helpful!

[ScottPhotoCo]

You may want to try Ace Hardware. They generally have a much more extensive selection of specialty screws than other places.

Tim
www.ScottPhoto.co

[William Whitaker]

Found the auction. And the photos. Pretty lens.

[Dustyman]

Thanks Tim. Will do. There's one not too far from me.


You may want to try Ace Hardware. They generally have a much more extensive selection of specialty screws than other places.

Tim
www.ScottPhoto.co

[Gundlach]

113273

Shot with my Vitax... 8x10 Ambrotype

[Gundlach]

113274

Shot with my Vitax... 5x7 Ambrotype

[goamules]

A Vitax, I agree, is a fantastic petzval. Equal to or better than a Dallmeyer A series.

[Jim C.]

Thanks Jim. Good point. So I'll throw this question out there: Anybody know the exact machine screw size for the tiny aperture knob(s) on the front of Wollensak Studio 5 shutters?

You might try these watch supply companies, the links here were as far as I got when looking for
Volute shutter screws, it'll be a crap shoot sizing the screw post since there doesn't seem to be a
screw checker gauge made for screws used in watch making/repair.

http://www.ofrei.com/index.html

http://www.esslinger.com/

http://www.jewelerssupplies.com/index.html

[Dustyman]

Nice work, Jeffrey! And fine examples of how this lens draws an image. Are these wide-open? They appear deadly sharp at focus point.

Anybody shooting 8x10 film with it?


113274

Shot with my Vitax... 5x7 Ambrotype

[goamules]

All Petzvals are super sharp in the center. Probably sharper than any other lens design, wide open. Many people are and have been shooting Vitax lenses on film for 90 years. Some here:
https://www.flickr.com/search/?text=vitax

[desertrat]

A little Vitax historical trivia. The lens was first sold by the Rochester Lens Company as the Royal Portrait sometime between 1900 and 1905. Wollensak bought the company in 1905 and added the Royal series of lenses to their lineup. The 1906-1907 Wollensak catalog at Camera Eccentric shows the Royal Portrait. In 1908 Wollensak took out an add in a photo magazine announcing the name changes for their Royal series of lenses. That's when the Royal Portrait became the Vitax. The #3 is a lens I would love to own if I could afford one.

[ScottPhotoCo]

What is the difference between the Vitax and the Wollensak Series A Portrait Lens? I have one that I'm just starting to experiment with.

Tim
www.ScottPhoto.co

[Gundlach]

A Vitax, I agree, is a fantastic petzval. Equal to or better than a Dallmeyer A series.

Garrett SHHH! The prices will go up! :)

[Gundlach]

Nice work, Jeffrey! And fine examples of how this lens draws an image. Are these wide-open? They appear deadly sharp at focus point.

Anybody shooting 8x10 film with it?


Yes wide open - my film is ISO .0875

[Gundlach]

What is the difference between the Vitax and the Wollensak Series A Portrait Lens? I have one that I'm just starting to experiment with.

Tim
www.ScottPhoto.co

I might be wrong but - The Wollensak Series A Portrait Lens is also a Petzval but without the focus adjustment knob and is slower at f5 vs. f3.8 Later they name was changed to Vesta Portrait - when Vollensak decided all lenses must start with the letter 'V"

[Dustyman]

More on the studio shutter. Opens and closes with the lever. I don't have a long throw cable release, but when I tested with a paper clip, the shutter will open up and close fine only if I don't open it up all the way. If I push the paper clip in deep enough to open it all the way, and then remove it, the shutter will stick in the open position. Doesn't close back down. If I suck the piston nipple (NO jokes please) it will close again.
I just went out and got an air release (surgical supply house) bulb and hose, but same thing. It pops open fine but stays put in open position. I'm guessing it needs a bit of lubrication (boy this post is just full of steamy imagery), but the question is where. Shutter leaves or piston? The leaves themselves appear spotless. At lease the parts that are visible.

Thoughts?

[Gundlach]

More on the studio shutter. Opens and closes with the lever. I don't have a long throw cable release, but when I tested with a paper clip, the shutter will open up and close fine only if I don't open it up all the way. If I push the paper clip in deep enough to open it all the way, and then remove it, the shutter will stick in the open position. Doesn't close back down. If I suck the piston nipple (NO jokes please) it will close again.
I just went out and got an air release (surgical supply house) bulb and hose, but same thing. It pops open fine but stays put in open position. I'm guessing it needs a bit of lubrication (boy this post is just full of steamy imagery), but the question is where. Shutter leaves or piston? The leaves themselves appear spotless. At lease the parts that are visible.


DON'T EVEN THINK OF OILING ANYTHING! I'm serious if you don't know what your doing then don't. The shutter mechanism is just dirty, try just gently exercising it with the lever. The aperture "leaves" will disintegrate with any solvents - Can you suck it closed with the airbulb? NO OIL EVER!

[Dustyman]

Got it.
No, the air bulb doesn't provide enough negative force to close it on its own.



DON'T EVEN THINK OF OILING ANYTHING! I'm serious if you don't know what your doing then don't. The shutter mechanism is just dirty, try just gently exercising it with the lever. The aperture "leaves" will disintegrate with any solvents - Can you suck it closed with the airbulb? NO OIL EVER!

[Gundlach]

Got it.
No, the air bulb doesn't provide enough negative force to close it on its own.

Sorry I yelled ;) You can probably safely take the release mechanism off the outside of the lens and make sure the piston is free - If you can safely disassemble it, clean it with a little alcohol. All a lubricant will do is attract dust and dirt and in time gum everything up.

[Jim C.]

More on the studio shutter. Opens and closes with the lever. I don't have a long throw cable release, but when I tested with a paper clip, the shutter will open up and close fine only if I don't open it up all the way. If I push the paper clip in deep enough to open it all the way, and then remove it, the shutter will stick in the open position. Doesn't close back down. If I suck the piston nipple (NO jokes please) it will close again.
I just went out and got an air release (surgical supply house) bulb and hose, but same thing. It pops open fine but stays put in open position. I'm guessing it needs a bit of lubrication (boy this post is just full of steamy imagery), but the question is where. Shutter leaves or piston? The leaves themselves appear spotless. At lease the parts that are visible.

Thoughts?

Clean the piston first, you should be able to get at it without taking the shutter apart.
If memory serves correct there are three screws, one for the cover that protects the
shutter linkage and two for the piston barrel.
Clean the bore of the piston barrel with a cotton swab and naptha, same for the
brass piston, you also should polish the piston and the bore so that it moves smoothly.

It can get pretty hairy working on the innards of a Studio shutter, but you'd be surprised at
the decades old gunk that is in there.

In case your curious what's in there here's my Studio shutter type A #2 in the process of getting cleaned.

113304 113305 113306

[Dustyman]

Cleaned the barrel and piston with alcohol (didn't have naphtha on hand) with q-tips and cotton balls. All is working fine now. Snaps open and shut with authority. Many thanks.
Would Ronsonol have worked? It no longer contains Naptha (it contains "light petroleum distillate"). Or hows about pure mineral spirits?

It is tempting to lube the inside of the newly cleaned barrel with something that doesn't gunk up. Is there anything used with success just in the piston barrel (not on the shutter leaves)? Graphite powder? I would think that I could get a faster click if there were less resistance.

Very happy its working now, though. Great advice, Jim.




Clean the piston first, you should be able to get at it without taking the shutter apart.
If memory serves correct there are three screws, one for the cover that protects the
shutter linkage and two for the piston barrel.
Clean the bore of the piston barrel with a cotton swab and naptha, same for the
brass piston, you also should polish the piston and the bore so that it moves smoothly.

It can get pretty hairy working on the innards of a Studio shutter, but you'd be surprised at
the decades old gunk that is in there.

In case your curious what's in there here's my Studio shutter type A #2 in the process of getting cleaned.

113304 113305 113306

[Jim C.]

Cleaned the barrel and piston with alcohol (didn't have naphtha on hand) with q-tips and cotton balls. All is working fine now. Snaps open and shut with authority. Many thanks.
Would Ronsonol have worked? It no longer contains Naptha (it contains "light petroleum distillate"). Or hows about pure mineral spirits?

It is tempting to lube the inside of the newly cleaned barrel with something that doesn't gunk up. Is there anything used with success just in the piston barrel (not on the shutter leaves)? Graphite powder? I would think that I could get a faster click if there were less resistance.

Very happy its working now, though. Great advice, Jim.

Ronsonol would work fine, not a huge user of mineral spirits so I don't know, naptha/ronsonal are essentially same.
Polishing the bore and piston with a fine metal polish like Flitz <sp?> helps a lot you'll have to re clean the bore and piston.
I don't recommend putting anything on the piston or barrel, if it's cleaned and polished put the piston ( providing you took it off the linkage to clean )
in the barrel and rock it back and forth it with your finger over the bore opening, it should glide inside the barrel freely,
if not polish the bore and piston again. Don't lube the piston or barrel. but if if the lube demons beckons and you can't resist, there is a spray graphite
available that seems to leave a nano film, Jigaloo Graphite Extreme is the brand and I bought at Home Depot.

[Gundlach]

It is tempting to lube the inside of the newly cleaned barrel with something that doesn't gunk up. Is there anything used with success just in the piston barrel (not on the shutter leaves)? Graphite powder? I would think that I could get a faster click if there were less resistance.

Very happy its working now, though. Great advice, Jim.


It sounds like it is working as designed now - Remember this was designed in the days of ISO 10 film - exposures were in seconds.

Solvents are bad - if they migrate to the aperture / shutter blades they will be destroyed - they are not metallic. I can make you a heck of a deal on an Ilex 5 shutter with melted "ronson" treated aperture blades -

[Dustyman]

It sounds like it is working as designed now - Remember this was designed in the days of ISO 10 film - exposures were in seconds.

Solvents are bad - if they migrate to the aperture / shutter blades they will be destroyed - they are not metallic. I can make you a heck of a deal on an Ilex 5 shutter with melted "ronson" treated aperture blades -

Yes. Will leave as is. Just happy its working well now and I don't have to send it somewhere to fix. Its always a drag to have to delay working with a newly acquired tool.
The lens came mounted on a board that has the right outer dimensions, but with too thin a rabbit so there'd be wobble on the Deardorff. Will be cutting a new board to today.

[William Whitaker]

I just took a look at my nearest Studio shutter in reach, which is a number 4. Yours is a 5, I believe, but close enough. There is just no clearance behind that chrome-plated cam ring which adjusts the aperture. It rests directly on the body of the shutter below (behind) it. There is not room to use even a very small flat-headed screw without interference issues. The metal balls which should be there are attached via brass rods which go through the holes and are peened, then ground flush. I don't see any other way to do it, to be honest. You could devise a semi-circular spanner so you could engage the holes from the front of the lens. But that's really going around the back side of the barn.

Short of having a machine shop fabricate and attach small metal balls as finger-holds in the manner of the original, I think the easiest solution would be to find another Studio shutter of the same size and appropriate the aperture ring for use on your Vitax. Maybe someone has a junk Studio #5 lying about they would sell cheap. It would be worth asking, because you're not going to be able to attach anything from behind the ring. Else you might have to buy a whole lens to get the ring. That seems a shame, but that's about what your options are IMO.

[Dustyman]

You may be right, Will, as there is hardly any clearance behind the aperture faceplate. I was thinking with the right collar/spacer all I would need is 1 or 2 threads of the right screw to engage. However, none of the machine screws I tried seemed to be a natural fit.

So, I send it off to Adam at Grimes to see what he could do. He has done wonders for me in the past. Waiting to hear back from him.

Before I shipped it off, I was able to remove the front and rear cells no problem, but the middle cell (the glass that gets adjusted with the diffusion knob) seemed problematic to remove, so I left it in place. Looks like a large retaining ring is in there to keep it in place, but it's pretty deep in and tight.




I just took a look at my nearest Studio shutter in reach, which is a number 4. Yours is a 5, I believe, but close enough. There is just no clearance behind that chrome-plated cam ring which adjusts the aperture. It rests directly on the body of the shutter below (behind) it. There is not room to use even a very small flat-headed screw without interference issues. The metal balls which should be there are attached via brass rods which go through the holes and are peened, then ground flush. I don't see any other way to do it, to be honest. You could devise a semi-circular spanner so you could engage the holes from the front of the lens. But that's really going around the back side of the barn.

Short of having a machine shop fabricate and attach small metal balls as finger-holds in the manner of the original, I think the easiest solution would be to find another Studio shutter of the same size and appropriate the aperture ring for use on your Vitax. Maybe someone has a junk Studio #5 lying about they would sell cheap. It would be worth asking, because you're not going to be able to attach anything from behind the ring. Else you might have to buy a whole lens to get the ring. That seems a shame, but that's about what your options are IMO.