Help Indentifying C.C. Harrison Peztval Lens & Voigtlander Collinear Series II No. 3

[Primo I.]

Hi everyone, I am posting this thread in the hope that someone out there may be able to help me identify this particular C.C. Harrison Peztval type lens but more importantly, some markings (roman numerals) I found as I took the lens apart to clean.
I was extremely fortunate and lucky to have gone to a photography related liquidation on both Friday and Saturday that a friend had called me to attend.

Aside from countless lens caps, hoods, shutters and other misc parts I picked up (all large format), I also managed to pick up 20 lenses. This was the day that I always fantasied about that I would be able to somehow buy some really nice things for very cheap. I kid you not, I spent $550.00 in total and the only reason I believe I was so lucking was that it rained these two days and it was miserable out. I guess people decided not to venture outside because there wwere only about a dozen people at any given time throughout the two day sale.


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Some of the lenses I bought I am familiar with but there are many that I do not know. I will be reaching out to the forum to help me identify them as I go through each one over the next week or so.

The first one and the one I am really excited about is a C.C. Harrison Pretzval type lens which I saw from the corner of my eye and immediately picked up and put into the basket while I tried to control my excitement. I started to take it apart to clean it thoroughly and I noticed something odd (at least it was odd to me but may not be to others) after removing the front and rear elements, I noticed at one end of the barrel along the inside rim were Roman Numerals that were etched in. The numerals are "XVIII" or the number 18.

I really didn't know what to make of it and there is nothing else on the lens other than the following: "C.C. Harrison New York" and above that what seems to be the serial number for the lens "4386".
I am attaching a couple of images of the lens, one with the description and the other image is the section with the Roman Numerals. If anyone out there can help identify this, I would sincerely appreciate it. I would also appreciate if anyone can also identify the lens itself. I've never owned one (only dreamed of owning one) I have only read great things about the Lens maker on this forum so I am pretty excited about it. The glass is pristine, maybe a slight wipe mark but that's it, the glass is free and clear of anything you can think of and the housing is just dirty but no dents or marks. I bevel it may have had a brass hood but I was not able to find it during the sale.


The second lens is a "Voigtlander Collinear No. 57272 Series II No. 3 - f/1:5.6". I am familiar with Voigtlander but I do not know this particular lens. Any feedback would be appreciated. I am also posting two pictures of the Collinear to ask if anyone is familiar with it and any feedback regarding its capabilities. The glass is in pristine condition, clear and transparent. The housing shows its age but clean with no defects or dents.


I have about 9 lenses I am not sure about and would like to bring them to the forum in an orderly fashion so I can get help in identifying them and more importantly, get feedback from anyone who may have experience with them.
Thank you all ahead of time for any help you can provide.

[Steven Tribe]

Whilst the CC Harrison experts are still just waking up, I would venture the opinion that the Roman "concealed" numerals are to show which lens cell matched which barrel thread in the production line. This is a system that was used from at least 1780 with telescopes - which have many more threads! Threads were often hand cut, rather than machine cut, at this date.

The Collinear is a 85 degree medium wide angled lens. It never achieved what the Heliar did and has a lot of glass inside!

[goamules]

Congratulations on being in the right place at the right time!

The CC Harrison is of most interest to me. The scratched Roman numerals I've seen before, usually on the rear of a flange to indicate "top." I'd agree with Steven, it's something like that, an alignment aid. I have a CC Harrison Mammoth that has a strange ink or pencil writing on the glass edge "87 X 48" or some such, that makes no sense. So sometimes it's hard to know exactly what the makers were doing with their codes. Great lens, they are very good.

[Primo I.]

Thanks Steve, I appreciate the information. I had no idea they would do that. Iy's logical I guess if they did it for telescopes, they would also do it for lenses.
Whilst the CC Harrison experts are still just waking up, I would venture the opinion that the Roman "concealed" numerals are to show which lens cell matched which barrel thread in the production line. This is a system that was used from at least 1780 with telescopes - which have many more threads! Threads were often hand cut, rather than machine cut, at this date.

The Collinear is a 85 degree medium wide angled lens. It never achieved what the Heliar did and has a lot of glass inside!

[Primo I.]

Hi Garrett, Thank you! I feel I was very fortunate and lucky! Yes, its on the rear. I really appreciate the information, it helps in a big way. I just want to clean the elements and use it to see what can do since I have read so much about them. There are several other lenses and tele-photo attachments (all brass and 19th century) that I am not familiar with. I am doing my own research to see what I can gather and once I hit a road block, that's when I will come back to this forum and post my questions. I also picked up a Verito 8 3/4 in excellent condition. I mention that because I saw the 9" (i think it was a 9 inch) you posted on FLICKR. That is one good looking lens you have there. The camera also.
Congratulations on being in the right place at the right time!

The CC Harrison is of most interest to me. The scratched Roman numerals I've seen before, usually on the rear of a flange to indicate "top." I'd agree with Steven, it's something like that, an alignment aid. I have a CC Harrison Mammoth that has a strange ink or pencil writing on the glass edge "87 X 48" or some such, that makes no sense. So sometimes it's hard to know exactly what the makers were doing with their codes. Great lens, they are very good.

[goamules]

Ha! Funny, I got a CC Harrison and a Verito about that size one time! Seems every studio had a similar set of lenses. I am setting up to print right now, from that 9" I shot yesterday.