PDA

View Full Version : Fuji Velvia 100 in 4x5



Weihan
30-Mar-2014, 14:11
Hi Everyone,

Has Fuji Velvia been discontinued in 4x5? Badger Graphic says that it has been discontinued, but I still see it listed at Freestyle and at B&H. What gives?

Leigh
30-Mar-2014, 14:40
This is weird. I just checked B&H and they show two different listings for Velvia 100 4x5, differing only in the letters NP in the B&H stock number and different Fujifilm catalog numbers:
113027
One version is shown as In Stock, the other as Discontinued.

- Leigh

Weihan
30-Mar-2014, 14:48
Thanks for this follow-up. I think I'll make a couple of calls tomorrow to find out more. I hadn't seen the second discontinued listing at B&H. You're right, it is really weird.
I also just checked with Adorama, and they list Velvia 100 in 4x5 ALSO AS DISCONTINUED! This is horrible.

mike kwiatkowski
30-Mar-2014, 16:59
If the b&h graphics are right, the label on the new box is different. Could it be a different formulation or just a Fuji catalog number change..

Shootar401
30-Mar-2014, 17:17
The old packaging is discontinued. Fuji has a different SKU for the new packaging. It's the same film, same emulsion just a different box and label. Kodak did something like this last year with HC110.

Leigh
30-Mar-2014, 17:23
The old packaging is discontinued. Fuji has a different SKU for the new packaging.
Very interesting.

The new B&H stock number is the same as the old one, with the addition of the letters NP.
I wonder if that simply means New Package.

- Leigh

Weihan
31-Mar-2014, 11:26
UPDATE: I just got off the phone with Badger in Wisconsin and the salesman confirmed: THERE WILL BE NO FUTURE stock of Fuji Velvia in 4x5. Thanks, Fuji!

Jmarmck
31-Mar-2014, 11:44
What is left for 4x5 transparency film?

Kodachrome25
31-Mar-2014, 11:51
Looks to be the same for 8x10 according to Badger...

Thanks for letting us know, I just bought some from Adorama for $72.70 per box for a future project, should be set since I don't really need more beyond that. I bet all Fuji E-6 is gone in 5 years or less, sorry to say....

Brian C. Miller
31-Mar-2014, 12:29
:) Everybody raid Rick "King Tut Quickload" Denney's freezer! He's got lots of it!! He's got so much he's going to be buried with it! :D

First it was Kodak, and now it's Fuji. You want color? You go to Kodak. No choice. No more E6 for LF.

I wonder how soon Provia will be gone.

Corran
31-Mar-2014, 12:49
Well f***

Weihan
31-Mar-2014, 12:52
SECOND UPDATE: I just spoke with Samy's Camera in LA and they, too, confirmed that Fuji Velvia is being discontinued in 4x5 and 8x10. They have a few boxes left, and then it's sensa! The only reversal film will then be Provia - for how long? These developments are NOT NICE!

NancyP
31-Mar-2014, 15:09
This is discouraging. Not that I shoot color transparency at the moment, but once I get the hang of LF operations, I might want to do so later.

pdmoylan
31-Mar-2014, 16:31
Well there goes all of my 4x5 aspirations. Started in 1998 and its over. D800 here I come with great trepidation and frustration.

Never liked provia. Oh well. Life goes on with or without Velia; or does it?

PDM

Jmarmck
31-Mar-2014, 17:50
Strange, I have a D800e. It is the reason I started LF. Even at 36 megapixels it cannot come close to 4x5. Perhaps a new kickstart program for color transparency.

Leigh
31-Mar-2014, 19:14
I too have a Nikon D800E.

Excellent camera for what it is... a substitute for high-quality 35mm film work.

- Leigh

Corran
31-Mar-2014, 19:24
My D800E and a good lens at optimum aperture just about matches up to a typical 4x5 transparency shot at typical working apertures scanned on a typical flatbed scanner, with regard to resolution.

I think some folks need to learn how to best operate their digital cameras. If you can only match 35mm film from a D800 you either have a broken camera or can't use it. But let's not go down this road...I wouldn't want to replace Velvia with my D800E because of the colors.

Leigh
31-Mar-2014, 20:01
My D800E and a good lens at optimum aperture just about matches up to a typical 4x5 transparency shot at typical working apertures scanned on a typical flatbed scanner, with regard to resolution.
I agree.


I think some folks need to learn how to best operate their digital cameras. If you can only match 35mm film from a D800 you either have a broken camera or can't use it.
You need to re-read my previous post.

Perhaps you misunderstood my "high-quality" description to mean shooting Tri-X through a 35-105 zoom. Wrong.

- Leigh

Yo' Vinny
31-Mar-2014, 22:13
All of this discussion around the discontinuance of Velvia in sheets seems concerning to me. If Fuji just recently made changes to the packaging and the new SKU's are available, why would they do this just before they intend to discontinue the sheets? Also isn't Velvia one of those film stocks that have a tremendous following still? Most landscape photographers still use it, although most I've seen do it in rolls with 6x17 cameras, not so much 4x5 or 8x10 or larger.

Weihan
31-Mar-2014, 22:23
That was my thinking, too, but both Badger Graphic and Samy's Los Angeles stated without equivocation that this was "the last" of Fuji Velvia in 4x5 and 8x10. This leads me to believe it's now just a matter of time before all other color emulsions fall to digital as well. I've been a devoted Velvia user for years and this news hits especially hard.

AtlantaTerry
31-Mar-2014, 23:01
Is there still not an option for someone in Japan to ship it to you?

Why don't you folks get together one really large order? That should get some of the purchasing cost down which might partly compensate for the shipping costs.

What I don't understand is why Fuji is shooting themselves in the foot. If the film is still easily available in Japan, it is obviously being made. So why don't they want to ship it to non-domestic customers who are begging for it? That seems just dumb.

StoneNYC
1-Apr-2014, 01:47
Are you sure? I told B&H just a few months ago that Velvia100 was not discontinued just Velvia100F was discontinued and they suddenly were able to order it again, maybe badger is confusing the two types??

And is this discontinued or just no longer importing to the US?

Christian-NRW
1-Apr-2014, 06:25
I think this reoccuring of discontinuation notices gets everybody to panic far too soon.

Please everybody, check B&H again. Not only did they change their own item number, but also the original item number from the manufacturer changed!

Velvia RVP 100 in old package: 16010382
Velvia RVP 100 in new package: 16326157

Now, just check the stores:

B&H
Velvia RVP 100 in old package: 16010382 - DISCONTINUED
Velvia RVP 100 in new package: 16326157 - IN STOCK


ADORAMA
Velvia RVP 100 in old package: 16010382 - DISCONTINUED
Velvia RVP 100 in new package: 16326157 - TEMPRORARILY OUT OF STOCK


Freestyle
Velvia RVP 100 in old package: 16010382 - Item currently in retail store, will ship in 24-48 hours.
Velvia RVP 100 in new package: 16326157 - REDIRECTS TO 16010382, see above

I do not believe that Fuji refreshes the packaging and discontinues the sheet film so early on. Its probably just that the distributor changed the default output of what is said when 16010382 is requested by stock management tools. Those that still relied on requesting the old number now get a discontinuation notice while others either have both versions in their systems or redirect internally, like freestyle does, do have different status depending on the item number or rely on the new item number status only.

Christian

Brian C. Miller
1-Apr-2014, 07:28
Yesterday I dropped into Glazer's Camera. George, their long-time film guy, told me that E6 just isn't moving, and apparently Fuji wants to exit E6. Remember, in the hey-day of film, E6 accounted for 5% or so of total film sales. Kodak dumped its E6 because they couldn't economically produce and sell it; there was just too much material waste.

George told me an interesting tidbit about film sales: only the first-world nations want color film. The rest of the world mainly uses black & white. So while the CEO of Fuji declared that if even there was one photographer shooting film, Fuji would make that film, that person won't be getting a choice of emulsions or size, and it'll be $500 a roll.

Kodachrome25
1-Apr-2014, 07:33
Interesting Christian...

Sounds like Samy's & Badger need to do some verifying with distributor. Otherwise, it becomes yet one more damaging rumor or the sky is falling-fest that those who spend all their time on the Internet racking up post counts live for...

Deval
1-Apr-2014, 08:15
So I called B&H and spoke with a rep from the film photo department. They have a repackaged Fuji Velvia 100 but appears to be the exact same as the old one. The old packaging and SKU has discontinued. They have the new packaging and have heard of no discontinuation of future shipments.

I think however, all of us love film photography enough that we hate being at the mercy of Fuji or Kodak. I think there is currently a large enough film revival to keep the movement going, but I second the idea of having a crowdsourced non-proprietary color reversal film that meets or beats current options. I really miss ASTIA 100 for landscape. I think it would be nice to have a grassroots movement showing how much better film is compared to smartphones and what I estimate will be a completely lost generation of photographs. Imagine looking at a 5 megapixel i-phone image 30 years from now and trying to pick out the faces from the pixels. Sigh... convenience for quality...

NancyP
1-Apr-2014, 08:45
The other thing that concerns me is the availability of E6 processing.

Brian C. Miller
1-Apr-2014, 08:53
... I second the idea of having a crowdsourced non-proprietary color reversal film that meets or beats current options.

Here's the basic problem: film is complex to produce. It takes millions of dollars for research to produce a new emulsion. There have been discussions on this on APUG. Take a look at Making Kodak Film (http://www.makingkodakfilm.com/) site, by Robert Shanebrook. The book is out of print, but there's some good information there. Creating an independent E6 film is far harder than the New55 project.

We are no longer at the mercy of Kodak for E6. Kodak E6 is dead and gone. Fuji is the only game in town, and that's all there is to it. The only alternatives are things like Dufaycolor, or Autochrome, or some pretty funky tri-color cameras.

Kodachrome25
1-Apr-2014, 09:34
Here's the basic problem: film is complex to produce. It takes millions of dollars for research to produce a new emulsion. There have been discussions on this on APUG. Take a look at Making Kodak Film (http://www.makingkodakfilm.com/) site, by Robert Shanebrook. The book is out of print, but there's some good information there. Creating an independent E6 film is far harder than the New55 project.

We are no longer at the mercy of Kodak for E6. Kodak E6 is dead and gone. Fuji is the only game in town, and that's all there is to it. The only alternatives are things like Dufaycolor, or Autochrome, or some pretty funky tri-color cameras.

I have Bob's book, truly an eye opener that puts you in the shoes of the film maker instead of placing blame on them all the time...

So let's be honest with our selves here, none of us were ever at the "Mercy" of Kodak or Fuji, those companies are at the mercy of a market that has all but vanished. I suspect users of color film who cry foul over what has happened in the world of photography to their chosen medium inflate in their minds to an extraordinary degree the actual numbers who use color film.

I hope it sticks around longer than bets would hedge, but I am a lifelong artist and businessman so I have learned to make sound investments. I have a small investment in medium and large format color film, my exposure to risk is low. Conversely, I have an enormous investment in black and white film and the darkroom, I am 100% positive that will pay off in the long and near term...

Weihan
1-Apr-2014, 10:47
My hidden hope is that some large Chinese conglomerate might buy up the Fuji film production division and go from there. While the higher end digital backs from Phase One are a nice option, most of us who shoot film simply prefer the "look" of film, especially when enlarged. Furthermore, the digital backs will normally set you back more than a new 5-series BMW. Ridiculous prices for something that becomes outdated months later.
There does seem to be a growing pro-film movement in China, so perhaps a deep-pocketed businessman might have a look at Fuji's film division and make them an offer. THAT would be ideal.

goamules
1-Apr-2014, 10:47
I'm also accepting that the writing is on the wall for color film. Sad, but horse buggys were replaced by cars too. It's really amazing that most consumer items radically changed every decade, but film remained largely the same from invention until today. Yet, digital sensors are that much cheaper, and just as good, for 99.999% of consumers. When every family in america shot 35mm film at every event, and some shot slides, and some shot LF, it kept companies like Kodak and Fuji catering to their every need. Imagine the millions of rolls of Kodachrome that were shot every year....necessitating drive up fill dropoff stores in every town...many of them.

Compared to those days - repeat after me - There is NO market today for color film. And it's very complex to manufacture in large scale. As in the NASA Gemini or Apollo programs.

Larry Gebhardt
1-Apr-2014, 10:58
The only alternatives are things like Dufaycolor, or Autochrome, or some pretty funky tri-color cameras.

I think a Kickstarter for a tri-color camera would be a lot more likely to succeed than one for a new E6 film.

Jmarmck
1-Apr-2014, 11:09
Actually, I would prefer Kodachrome. But I know that will never happen. One could think that with the advancement of modern chemistry that the emulsion production process would be simplified and improved reducing the costs. But I am sure that is a highly simplified opinion, or an opinion of a simple mind.

goamules
1-Apr-2014, 12:40
You know, I edited my response. Though chemistry hasn't really changed much since Kodachrome was invented in the 1920s, there are related things that are improved. I suppose that since each of these color films was invented, in simple labs, by chemists and physics professors, or in the earlier type, but a portrait photographer, it could be done in small scale.

goamules
1-Apr-2014, 12:43
The basic premise of Kodachrome was three layers that are sensitive to the three colors. When developing, the problem would be chemicals that only work on one of these layers. I can think of a few ways to handle the former, but need a chemist for the latter. Color wetplates, or dryplates would be my experiment. You heard it here first.

The patent also in theory tells you most everything you need:
http://www.freepatentsonline.com/2113329.pdf

StoneNYC
1-Apr-2014, 13:24
Please stop with the kodakchrome....

Velvia100 will be fine. And there's plenty of chemistry left.

That said, let's keep buying and shooting it so we can keep it around!

:$

Kodachrome25
1-Apr-2014, 13:58
I love slide film, I love the "chiaroscuro" effect of it in ripping good light, especially with people images.

So I guess that is why I have a couple hundred sheets of it in 4x5 with some 35mm and 120 to dial it and baseline pushes or pulls, to engage in a project ala' Carrvaggio which in 4x5 ought to be mouth watering. I'll give my self 5 years because I think beyond that chrome from Fuji might be history....

113170 113171 113172

StoneNYC
1-Apr-2014, 14:00
I love slide film, I love the "chiaroscuro" effect of it in ripping good light, especially with people images.

So I guess that is why I have a couple hundred sheets of it in 4x5 with some 35mm and 120 to dial it and baseline pushes or pulls, to engage in a project ala' Carrvaggio which in 4x5 ought to be mouth watering. I'll give my self 5 years because I think beyond that chrome from Fuji might be history....

113170 113171 113172

These are all your images?

These are all Velvia100??

Kodachrome25
1-Apr-2014, 14:02
These are all your images?

These are all Velvia100??

Mine, RVP 100 on the first, KR on the last two, since that masterpiece pop-culture icon was mentioned....

I'd love to take my 4x5 ( or Hasselblad ) and RVP 100 to India or Cuba and just baaaathe that film in great light, deep subjects, maybe in 2016...

Yep! I'm doing it, thanks for the nudge folks, time to get my passport renewed and find a grant or two...

StoneNYC
1-Apr-2014, 14:25
Mine, RVP 100 on the first, KR on the last two, since that masterpiece pop-culture icon was mentioned....

I'd love to take my 4x5 ( or Hasselblad ) and RVP 100 to India or Cuba and just baaaathe that film in great light, deep subjects, maybe in 2016...

Yep! I'm doing it, thanks for the nudge folks, time to get my passport renewed and find a grant or two...

Interesting I find Provia100f would be better for journalist/people shooting, don't the skin tones look off with Velvia100?

Kodachrome25
1-Apr-2014, 14:33
Interesting I find Provia100f would be better for journalist/people shooting, don't the skin tones look off with Velvia100?

It's not journalistic imagery I will be doing, all fine art and if you look at the first shot of the monk, it is really warm but works. This is all about the light and finding outrageous ways to layer it in like a Carvaggio painting, this will include arriving at a way to crack the emulsion of the final prints which will be derived of drum scans.

There are too many generalizations out there that trip people up....

goamules
1-Apr-2014, 15:07
Please stop with the kodakchrome....

Velvia100 will be fine. And there's plenty of chemistry left.

That said, let's keep buying and shooting it so we can keep it around!

:$


Interesting I find Provia100f would be better for journalist/people shooting, don't the skin tones look off with Velvia100?

Please stop with the Kodak alternates....This thread....must...remain....about.....Velvia....only. Is that what you were saying?

StoneNYC
1-Apr-2014, 16:06
Please stop with the Kodak alternates....This thread....must...remain....about.....Velvia....only. Is that what you were saying?

Nope, this is about preventing fall into the k-chrome remorse hell...

StoneNYC
1-Apr-2014, 16:07
It's not journalistic imagery I will be doing, all fine art and if you look at the first shot of the monk, it is really warm but works. This is all about the light and finding outrageous ways to layer it in like a Carvaggio painting, this will include arriving at a way to crack the emulsion of the final prints which will be derived of drum scans.

There are too many generalizations out there that trip people up....

Interesting, though I have to tease you... "Why don't you ship it off to another continent and have it done in Ilfochrome?" Hehe

koh303
2-Apr-2014, 16:23
Interesting I find Provia100f would be better for journalist/people shooting, don't the skin tones look off with Velvia100?

photojournalists dont care about skin tones, or any other tones for that matter, especially since they know their photos are going to be printed badly on newspaper, then used to wrap fish the day after.

Kodachrome25
2-Apr-2014, 17:25
photojournalists dont care about skin tones, or any other tones for that matter, especially since they know their photos are going to be printed badly on newspaper, then used to wrap fish the day after.

LOL!!

Nice try Omer...

I can not tell you how many magazine images I have sold as prints to people who love the images. I shot Provia once and found it killed all the color relationships in images I generally had a good handle on due to a rambunctious knowledge of light. I much prefer to work my way around a film like RVP 100 and let my mind engage in limiting odd color buildup in areas that are prone to it like skin tones. Now 400X is a different story, that film is as close to Kodachrome 200 as one can get, love it...

PJ's like the one in the attached photo who is one of the top 5 NG shooters of all time sell fine art prints from shots on chrome like the one on his wall for North of 15K a pop. Skin tones matter but there is by far more than one way to "skin" that fish and it has to do nearly entirely with raw talent, how one literally *lives* light.

None of these films do anything until you have your way with them and make them throb with mastery in the final image....

113229

koh303
2-Apr-2014, 18:30
LOL!!

Nice try Omer...

I can not tell you how many magazine images I have sold as prints to people who love the images. I shot Provia once and found it killed all the color relationships in images I generally had a good handle on due to a rambunctious knowledge of light. I much prefer to work my way around a film like RVP 100 and let my mind engage in limiting odd color buildup in areas that are prone to it like skin tones. Now 400X is a different story, that film is as close to Kodachrome 200 as one can get, love it...

Thats probably why real photojournalists use negatives. (that is not to say you are or are not one yourself).

To call NG photographers photojournalists, or journalists of any kind is like saying spinal tap was a serious documentary film.
I guess in some places fish get wrapped with old or current NG issues, but i think that does not quite make it journalism.

koh303
2-Apr-2014, 18:37
one of the top 5 NG shooters of all time
How are NG photographers rated? Is it like in tennis? Is there a championship? are non NG photographers who are better photographers allowed to be in the same ranking system?

In any case - any rating system is useless because we all know Muhammed Muheisen is the best photographer alive (and of all those dead ones as well).

StoneNYC
2-Apr-2014, 19:13
Drivel... NG photographers are the only real photojournalists left, they have integrity and people recognize their ability to stay objective, that's why they are let in to more places than any other type of journalistic photographer....

koh303
2-Apr-2014, 19:53
NG photographers have such integrity they never move mountains around in ps to make a better image, or remove people altogether. never.
and lets not forget that they are fueled by drive alone and not mega million dollar publishing houses and are so objective they never represent a colonialist white europcentic victorian point of view in which the white man will enlighten the infidels.

In most countries where press cards are issued by government agencies NG photograpers are usually last in line for access mostly because of the above. mega bucks buys you access NG or not.

there is no such thing as being objective most definetly not when you work for a body like NG.
how do you recognize integrity in a photograph, let alone in a photographer who gets paid to make images?

StoneNYC
2-Apr-2014, 20:40
Photographers, or the NG editors? That's the question.

Kodachrome25
2-Apr-2014, 20:46
This is getting way off topic so I won't feed it too much but I am not sure where you going with all this. The case with the merging pyramids was not the photographer, it was done during the layout phase and indeed, it was NOT a good thing.

I know a lot of these guys in person, have hung out with them in a lot of situations, they are great people and they know that even their breed is dying.

NG photogs really came into vogue in the 70's through the late 90's. So as much as some would shoot numerous assignments that came before that time, the quality really took off when certain shooters hit their stride. I personally call this mentor of mine one of the top 5 of all time because of his amazing work, award roster, sheer number of assignments, impact on Magnum and his immense giving nature with his peers. He is one of a handful of people I have rip my work a new one to keep me sharp and working hard to do better.

I know for a fact he has integrity and I also do, I have been getting paid to produce journalistic imagery for two decades, the photographs I have sold and do sell as art are born of that ideal.

Back on topic, I have enough RVP 100 to do my "Journalistically" inclined fine art piece abroad. I thought I was done with color slide when Kodachrome went but I can not dump chrome like that, it taught me most of what I know about light...


NG photographers have such integrity they never move mountains around in ps to make a better image, or remove people altogether. never.
and lets not forget that they are fueled by drive alone and not mega million dollar publishing houses and are so objective they never represent a colonialist white europcentic victorian point of view in which the white man will enlighten the infidels.

In most countries where press cards are issued by government agencies NG photograpers are usually last in line for access mostly because of the above. mega bucks buys you access NG or not.

there is no such thing as being objective most definetly not when you work for a body like NG.
how do you recognize integrity in a photograph, let alone in a photographer who gets paid to make images?

koh303
3-Apr-2014, 07:15
NG photogs really came into vogue in the 70's through the late 90's. So as much as some would shoot numerous assignments that came before that time, the quality really took off when certain shooters hit their stride. I personally call this mentor of mine one of the top 5 of all time because of his amazing work, award roster, sheer number of assignments, impact on Magnum and his immense giving nature with his peers. He is one of a handful of people I have rip my work a new one to keep me sharp and working hard to do better.
Clearly - there is no replacement for formal education (no matter what i think about the MFA industry). Auto didactism makes things seem more grand they actually are (IE "photojournalism").


I know for a fact he has integrity and I also do, I have been getting paid to produce journalistic imagery for two decades, the photographs I have sold and do sell as art are born of that ideal.

Photo editors might be to blame, but that does not make photographers any better, NG or otherwise.
People who work for a body with such a slanted world view and self proclaimed morals have no integrity (other then maybe to that cause which is promoted by their work), and objectivity is really a subjective thing at best.

Forgive me for saying this - It is not clear to me why the fact you end up selling the photos you made adds anything to your integrity, and or what ideal you are talking about. People buy all kinds of "crap" most of it is really very bad.
Surely your word that someone has integrity does not make it so...? What facts can possibly show anyone to have "integrity"?

And - "getting paid to produce journalistic imagery" - does that mean you worked as a news photographer/photojournalist?

Alas - back on topic - i am not sure what a chrome film can teach anyone that a negative (or digital camera for that matter) can't, especially in light of the fact that they are s hard to use...

Kodachrome25
3-Apr-2014, 08:44
And - "getting paid to produce journalistic imagery" - does that mean you worked as a news photographer/photojournalist?

Alas - back on topic - i am not sure what a chrome film can teach anyone that a negative (or digital camera for that matter) can't, especially in light of the fact that they are s hard to use...

I'm a professional photographer Omer, I have done advertising and journalism for 24 years and now I am shifting to fine art, all darkroom based. I also created the "Kodachrome Project" in that I got a lot of people to shoot the film before it went away, Kodak sponsored it by paying a huge portion of the lab bill for over 1,200 rolls shot over a 5 year period. There is a book coming out later this year that bears that namesake.

Slide film teaches one about light in a more merciless fashion as the range of exposure is more narrow. It also reaches an uncanny saturation threshold in that tones related to the properly exposed one can often be out of whack, that is what taught me about light...but wow, when they all come together, especially multiple sources of light, the look is simply peerless and extends well past what one normally sees in a photograph when looking at a projected slide or seeing it on the light table. I expect this look to be even more rewarding and yet challenging to attain in LF because of it's slower nature.....often one has to react to this kind of light quickly, no meter will sound an alarm when it is happening, you have to learn to see it.

I have noticed that in the past few months you have become more vocal Omer which I think is great. I love what you are doing for the industry and for those of us who depend on JOBO products for a sound and consistent process....especially when it comes to LF, I still very much appreciate the repair you did on my CPP2's reverse sensor, you were professional and patient.

But for those of us who live what Sam Abell coined as "The Photographic Life" in that not only are we paid to shoot, we repay socially and will with great passion continue to strive for visually uncharted territory, some of what you say makes no sense. I used to easily be offended by those kinds of things, but I now try to limit my participation on forums so I can keep my sanity....and besides, photographs never happen while on the internet.

I have attached a few more chromes, artsy PJ types, take them to task if you feel you must but really this is the language I am most fluent in...Photography.

goamules
3-Apr-2014, 10:01
Thats probably why real photojournalists use negatives....

Bwahahaha! Right. Substitute "negatives" for "digital" or "Leica" or "Kodak" or Aristra or LF or Medium Format or.....and join one of those other forums. You'll perhaps be agreed to more, by perhaps more than 50% of the readers.

Kodachrome25, I like everything you just said, and your calm, reasoned explanations. I'm glad this forum is usually supportive, civil, and non-judgmental about our personal choices and thoughts. So many seem to come in, make a controversial comment, and just try to make forums a negative debate place or place to show off their use of big words and thoughts. Who cares? I like seeing the pictures, and not trying to debate things that you'll never change - attitudes, choices, favorites, etc....

StoneNYC
3-Apr-2014, 11:17
I'm a professional photographer Omer, I have done advertising and journalism for 24 years and now I am shifting to fine art, all darkroom based. I also created the "Kodachrome Project" in that I got a lot of people to shoot the film before it went away, Kodak sponsored it by paying a huge portion of the lab bill for over 1,200 rolls shot over a 5 year period. There is a book coming out later this year that bears that namesake.

Slide film teaches one about light in a more merciless fashion as the range of exposure is more narrow. It also reaches an uncanny saturation threshold in that tones related to the properly exposed one can often be out of whack, that is what taught me about light...but wow, when they all come together, especially multiple sources of light, the look is simply peerless and extends well past what one normally sees in a photograph when looking at a projected slide or seeing it on the light table. I expect this look to be even more rewarding and yet challenging to attain in LF because of it's slower nature.....often one has to react to this kind of light quickly, no meter will sound an alarm when it is happening, you have to learn to see it.

I have noticed that in the past few months you have become more vocal Omer which I think is great. I love what you are doing for the industry and for those of us who depend on JOBO products for a sound and consistent process....especially when it comes to LF, I still very much appreciate the repair you did on my CPP2's reverse sensor, you were professional and patient.

But for those of us who live what Sam Abell coined as "The Photographic Life" in that not only are we paid to shoot, we repay socially and will with great passion continue to strive for visually uncharted territory, some of what you say makes no sense. I used to easily be offended by those kinds of things, but I now try to limit my participation on forums so I can keep my sanity....and besides, photographs never happen while on the internet.

I have attached a few more chromes, artsy PJ types, take them to task if you feel you must but really this is the language I am most fluent in...Photography.

You're a master of both light and wisdom!

Lachlan 717
3-Apr-2014, 13:26
I wonder just how many potentially great shots have been "missed" (ie. not taken, exposed badly, just stuffed up) due to the Shooter only having positive film with them?

I love Velvia et al, but know that there are scenes where positive film is simply the wrong tool for the job. Taking a purely "one or the other, but never both" mentality just seems too limiting to me. But I guess that's just the pragmatist in me

Leigh
3-Apr-2014, 14:44
I wonder just how many potentially great shots have been "missed" (ie. not taken, exposed badly, just stuffed up) due to the Shooter only having positive film with them?
Huh???

I've shot chromes for 50+ years, and have never "not" taken a photo simply because the camera was loaded with positive film.

No film type is optimum for all situations. Live with it.

Film choice reflects the vision of the shooter. That vision may change with time.
Film is just a tool used to render the image as desired.

As much as I dislike digital photography, it does have one advantage.
It enables me to give the model a color photo for her port, while enabling me to do the b&w rendering that I want.

- Leigh

koh303
3-Apr-2014, 15:02
No film type is optimum for all situations. Live with it.
Quite true, but chome is not optimum in most situations. I think that is was lachlan was aiming at.
Which is not to say one should not use chrome, i for one, will not be missing any chrome emulsions which are gone.

Leigh
3-Apr-2014, 15:18
Quite true, but chome is not optimum in most situations.
The definition of "optimum" varies with the ability and experience of the photographer.

For some shooters, no film is optimum.

The main difference between chrome and e.g. b&w is that chromes expect a proper exposure.
Some photographers don't know what that is or how to accomplish it, even with b&w film.

Many shooters choose less-demanding films as a substitute for learning the craft.

- Leigh

StoneNYC
3-Apr-2014, 15:54
(Snip)
The main difference between chrome and e.g. b&w is that chromes expect a proper exposure.
Some photographers don't know what that is or how to accomplish it, even with b&w film.

Many shooters choose less-demanding films as a substitute for learning the craft.

- Leigh

+1

Fred L
3-Apr-2014, 16:00
...NG photographers are the only real photojournalists left, they have integrity and people recognize their ability to stay objective

really Stone ? So the photographers at Magnum, VII, Noor etc aren't "real" photojournalists ? The photographers who are, in many cases, risking lives to bring stories to people ? Ones who've died doing such ?

StoneNYC
3-Apr-2014, 16:10
really Stone ? So the photographers at Magnum, VII, Noor etc aren't "real" photojournalists ? The photographers who are, in many cases, risking lives to bring stories to people ? Ones who've died doing such ?

Magnum is all I know about and wasn't Magnum started by NG photographers? :)

(And I said anymore, not 10 years ago, but current or currently new photojournalists) and also I should have clarified ... Non-independent ... As in photojournalists that actually are under contract by newspapers...

Fred L
3-Apr-2014, 16:42
started by Cartier Bresson, Capa and Chim I believe (can check). As for newspaper photographers not being real ? Again, incorrect imo. I'll tell my friends at the LA Times that their World Press and Pulitzer wins don't mean much since they're not what you would consider real photojournalists. Sorry, don't agree with your assessment.

koh303
3-Apr-2014, 18:57
Magnum is all I know about and wasn't Magnum started by NG photographers? :)

(And I said anymore, not 10 years ago, but current or currently new photojournalists) and also I should have clarified ... Non-independent ... As in photojournalists that actually are under contract by newspapers...

My goodness. I know you are against google and gaining knowledge by reading, but this has got to top most of your fallacies paraded as facts to date...

You dont know about any others, does not mean there arent any others.
Magnum has nothing to do with NG. VII (like magnum) are even worse then NG with what they represent (and in many cases just really bad, but interdependently wealthy people, IE ron habib and friends).

Most "real" photojournalists who get paid to make photos today are not under or in any contract, thanks to open marker capitalism, and most work as freelancers for wires. As such, most AP offices around the world have "fired" 90% of their staffers, only to "re hire" them as freelancers at different pay rates (often higher) and different benefits.

For the most part, you and most others will never know the name of these photographers, even when they win WPP, POI, a pulizer, frames of reality etc,. These photographers shoot daily news for newspapers and international wires. All you need to do is go to www.apimages.com to see what and who "real" photojournalists are, those (and others, including staffers of newspapers) are the photos that permeate the world of news and journalism.

As for newspapers - like the wires they too axed most if not all staffer positions and are out sourcing them to "wires" manned by the same photographers who now work exclusively for the same newspaper but get paid by a different company. But - print is dead so all of this is short lived anyways. Photojournalists today are bad reporters with a smartphone. Video is what is important, not stills.

Leigh: Aint it great that art and craft are two totally different things? thats why there are schools for technitians where the applied arts are taught, and schools for creative poeple where fine arts is taught.

koh303
3-Apr-2014, 19:11
I am sure you never heard of tim hetherington, or emilio moranetty, or mohammed muheisen either...
but whatever.

Lachlan 717
4-Apr-2014, 00:41
Huh???

I've shot chromes for 50+ years, and have never "not" taken a photo simply because the camera was loaded with positive film.

No film type is optimum for all situations. Live with it.

- Leigh

I guess that I typed too fast for you to keep up.

To help you, I have slowed down.

My comment was saying that there are definitely times when the limitations of positive film preclude its use for capturing a image satisfactorily. To help you further, I was implying that negative film's greater latitude would have allowed the capture of at least some of these images.

Never did I state, nor imply, that one film is optimal for all situations. Live with it. In suitable light, I will always use positive film. When it isn't suitable, I will use negative film. When that is not suitable, I will drink whisky. Again, live with it.

StoneNYC
4-Apr-2014, 05:21
I guess that I typed too fast for you to keep up.

To help you, I have slowed down.

My comment was saying that there are definitely times when the limitations of positive film preclude its use for capturing a image satisfactorily. To help you further, I was implying that negative film's greater latitude would have allowed the capture of at least some of these images.

Never did I state, nor imply, that one film is optimal for all situations. Live with it. In suitable light, I will always use positive film. When it isn't suitable, I will use negative film. When that is not suitable, I will drink whisky. Again, live with it.

I think everyone has a different, your comment about capturing an image satisfactorily is also subjective, I think personally for me that slide film is perfectly fine for capturing any and all images possible, but I personally like a lot of contrast so this makes sense for me again just for me, so it's very individual, so your statement that Chrome film is not good for all situations is not entirely accurate you mean all situations for YOU.

Kodachrome25
4-Apr-2014, 08:43
Stone, you are familiar in how people really go on about a scanner's ability to dig deep into D-Maximum or D-Max, right?

One of the benefits of a scanner that can go beyond D-4.2 is pulling better lower mid-tone gradients out of slide film. Obviously if you overexpose chrome to get into those ranges better, it can either be a net positive if you are after some cool looking blown out effect or a net negative in losing important tonal qualities.

Conversely, if I expose Ektar 100 pretty much dead on or a smidge under in a contrasty scene and then move both the shadow and mid-tone slider just a hair to darken it...guess what kind of film that resulting image will tend to look like....

It's all about living and breathing light then mastering your materials, having them work for you. It's a personal choice too in that I will not use black and white film in the digital Lightroom but I have no issues at all in being productive with color films in the same use, probably why I shoot 95% black and white when it comes to film.

You can get chrome-like results from contrasty color neg films, it is always easier to discard tonal information rather than recover it...

That being said, just keep shooting slide film but keep this in the back of your mind if you find chrome disappearing a lot faster than we all might hope...

StoneNYC
4-Apr-2014, 08:53
Stone, you are familiar in how people really go on about a scanner's ability to dig deep into D-Maximum or D-Max, right?

One of the benefits of a scanner that can go beyond D-4.2 is pulling better lower mid-tone gradients out of slide film. Obviously if you overexpose chrome to get into those ranges better, it can either be a net positive if you are after some cool looking blown out effect or a net negative in losing important tonal qualities.

Conversely, if I expose Ektar 100 pretty much dead on or a smidge under in a contrasty scene and then move both the shadow and mid-tone slider just a hair to darken it...guess what kind of film that resulting image will tend to look like....

It's all about living and breathing light then mastering your materials, having them work for you. It's a personal choice too in that I will not use black and white film in the digital Lightroom but I have no issues at all in being productive with color films in the same use, probably why I shoot 95% black and white when it comes to film.

You can get chrome-like results from contrasty color neg films, it is always easier to discard tonal information rather than recover it...

That being said, just keep shooting slide film but keep this in the back of your mind if you find chrome disappearing a lot faster than we all might hope...

Then why do you choose chrome? Hmmmm? :)

Kodachrome25
4-Apr-2014, 09:24
Then why do you choose chrome? Hmmmm? :)

Mostly because I feel like taking a few more laps with it before it's gone.

koh303
4-Apr-2014, 09:56
Mostly because I feel like taking a few more laps with it before it's gone.
It's also too late to change the username... ;)

Leigh
4-Apr-2014, 10:31
... then move both the shadow and mid-tone slider ...
Film doesn't have a slider.

You're confusing computer graphics with photography. Two very different disciplines.

- Leigh

Kodachrome25
4-Apr-2014, 10:41
Film doesn't have a slider.

You're confusing computer graphics with photography. Two very different disciplines.

Lol, I suppose.

I have never had the desire to wet print color, so it is always scanned for me. Those "Sliders" happen pre or post scan. I love wet printing black and white for a reason, it's 100% photography...;-)

I think it is time for lunch, all this talk about sliders has me grumbling...

Leigh
4-Apr-2014, 10:53
I have never printed so much as one color negative, not even as a test or experiment.

However, I've printed thousands of Cibachromes, back when it was available. Love it.

In recent years I've been 100% b&w. Faster, easier, cheaper, beautiful.

Happy slidering. ??? ;-)

- Leigh

David A. Goldfarb
5-Apr-2014, 01:16
Time was that chromes were preferred for ease of editing, particularly for slick magazines, not so much for newsprint. The color was more vibrant than one could get from neg film and on the light table, it could make a good impression on the art director. And if you wanted a photographic print or an offset print in a magazine or book, you could always tell the lab to match the slide, and you had a standard of comparison that didn't exist with a neg.

Weihan
5-Apr-2014, 12:00
Badger Graphic has annotated their listing of Fuji Velvia 100 4x5 to indicate that their current stock is indeed the final shipment.
https://www.badgergraphic.com/store/cart.php?m=product_detail&p=612

StoneNYC
5-Apr-2014, 12:45
Badger Graphic has annotated their listing of Fuji Velvia 100 4x5 to indicate that their current stock is indeed the final shipment.
https://www.badgergraphic.com/store/cart.php?m=product_detail&p=612

Blah... I called Samy's and they said they hadn't heard anything official yet. And B&H said it was just a sku change... And I'm broke and can't but even a box let alone a freezer full right now...

MikeH
5-Apr-2014, 14:54
Today I received 2 boxes of 4x5 from Badger, emulsion #477-832, exp. 8/15, with the "new" label and sku. My last order was last June, 2013, emulsion # 477-825, exp. 10/14, "old" label and sku. Doesn't this mean that Fuji manufactured 7 emulsions in the last 8 or 9 months (depending on how Badger buys from Fuji)? And somewhere in between, Fuji spent $$ on re-designing the label for 4x5, only to discontinue it 1/2 year (or so) later?

To someone out there that knows the Kodak manufacturing process: is manufacturing 1 emulsion for slide / transparency film per month, or a month and a half, profitable? Or is it "profitable" by the standards that we had in manufacturing before the MBAs took over, and not "profitable" by the MBAs standards?

StoneNYC
5-Apr-2014, 17:55
Today I received 2 boxes of 4x5 from Badger, emulsion #477-832, exp. 8/15, with the "new" label and sku. My last order was last June, 2013, emulsion # 477-825, exp. 10/14, "old" label and sku. Doesn't this mean that Fuji manufactured 7 emulsions in the last 8 or 9 months (depending on how Badger buys from Fuji)? And somewhere in between, Fuji spent $$ on re-designing the label for 4x5, only to discontinue it 1/2 year (or so) later?

To someone out there that knows the Kodak manufacturing process: is manufacturing 1 emulsion for slide / transparency film per month, or a month and a half, profitable? Or is it "profitable" by the standards that we had in manufacturing before the MBAs took over, and not "profitable" by the MBAs standards?

The big question is why produce more and spend money re-labeling and re-designing only to cancel? That makes no sense..

koh303
5-Apr-2014, 18:59
Fuji is loosing money making film, which is why it stepped out of the only money making part of their film making process which is industrial film for the electronics industry.
That was about 2 years ago now. That was the part that supported the entire plant. Now that it gone, they are just running on innertia, and i suspect they have not made any new emulsions or production runs since, just extinguishing remaining stock at the manufacturing facilities.
In some cases this might still go on for a few years, and in other cases, where a smaller running stock was maintained in the first place such as chrome, it came sooner.

Its important to remember that japanese production models do not make stuff before it is needed for actual production, so there never is really much stuff hanging around waiting for the assembly line to get to it, and stuff is only cut/stamped/made when the line is ready for it.

All this is not to say that velvia is indeed discontinued rather then temporarily out of stock.

mike kwiatkowski
5-Apr-2014, 20:31
Take this for what you think it's worth. i have exchanged a couple e-mails about velvia 100 4x5 with someone who works at fuji film north america. He stated that they just redid the packaging, there was no word about it going but it's use is very very light. We'll see if there really is no word that it is going or if he just has not been let in on it yet.
I also just received a batch, #477-832 exp 8/15. Let's hope it's not the last.

StoneNYC
7-Apr-2014, 07:03
So I took it upon myself to talk to the source.....

Velvia100 is still being produced and is available, badger is wrong...


"Dear Stone,

Thank you for contacting FUJIFILM North America Corporation. Please allow us to assist you.

Velvia 100 is currently in production and available in the following formats

135-36
135-36 (5 Pack)
120 (5 Pack)
4x5 (20 Sheet)
8x10 (20 Sheet)

We sincerely hope this information has been beneficial to you. If you should have any further questions or concerns, please do not hesitate to contact us in the future. It would be our pleasure to assist you again.

Thank you for your interest in FUJIFILM products and services.

Respectfully,

Damion
Authorized Customer Care Representative
Customer Care, Imaging Division
FUJIFILM North America Corporation
Email: contactfuji@fujifilm.com"

vinny
7-Apr-2014, 07:35
So I took it upon myself to talk to the source.....

Velvia100 is still being produced and is available, badger is wrong...


"Dear Stone,

Thank you for contacting FUJIFILM North America Corporation. Please allow us to assist you.

Velvia 100 is currently in production and available in the following formats

135-36
135-36 (5 Pack)
120 (5 Pack)
4x5 (20 Sheet)
8x10 (20 Sheet)

We sincerely hope this information has been beneficial to you. If you should have any further questions or concerns, please do not hesitate to contact us in the future. It would be our pleasure to assist you again.

Thank you for your interest in FUJIFILM products and services.

Respectfully,

Damion
Authorized Customer Care Representative
Customer Care, Imaging Division
FUJIFILM North America Corporation
Email: contactfuji@fujifilm.com"

I hope that that's true. Unfortunately, that email came from north america which is quite a long trip by boat from the actual "source".

Badger Graphic Sales, Inc
7-Apr-2014, 08:30
I just got off the phone with our Fuji rep. He has confirmed again that the film has been discontinued. Only Provia will be left once the current shipment is gone. They have changed their minds in the past. Letís hope they do again. Jeff

StoneNYC
7-Apr-2014, 08:39
I just got off the phone with our Fuji rep. He has confirmed again that the film has been discontinued. Only Provia will be left once the current shipment is gone. They have changed their minds in the past. Letís hope they do again. Jeff

Then how come Fuji replied to the email (just this morning) that said that it was still being made and available? This is very confusing, perhaps the rep is wrong?

I have it in writing... That should mean SOMETHING...

Would you be willing to give me your rep's email so I can forward their response to him?

When I contacted B&H Photo because they were out of stock of Velvia100 and had also been told by their rep that the film had been discontinued, this was back in November 2013, I contacted Adorama, and they told me that it had not been discontinued and that they were able to still get it, I contacted B&H Photo the ordering department, and I asked him why he thought it was discontinued and his rep told him that it was, so I pointed out to him that Adorama was able to order it and that they said that their rep could still get it, so somehow the two of them talk to each other and the B&H Photo ordering department head was able to find a different rep that was able to get him the film, so perhaps it's just a problem that your rep doesn't have access to the right sources anymore?

Badger Graphic Sales, Inc
7-Apr-2014, 08:41
Cy Franks. Technical Sales Rep.

Badger Graphic Sales, Inc
7-Apr-2014, 08:42
cfranks@fujifilm.com

Jmarmck
7-Apr-2014, 08:44
I just ordered a box of Velvia 100 from B&H. I spoke with the B&H order desk last week. They said there was no discontinuance of Velvia.

StoneNYC
7-Apr-2014, 08:49
Cy Franks. Technical Sales Rep.

Ok messaged him on linkedIn, we'll see if he even uses that and if he responds. Thanks

EDIT: just saw the email, that's better, will try there, thanks.

chris kleihege
7-Apr-2014, 08:59
Regardless of how this all pans out, communications with and within Fuji seem awkward. My impression is that our friends at Badger Graphics were trying to keep us informed, and given the source, this was pertinent information. Therefore, I suggest we get the best information possible from Fuji and we be gentle toward Badger.

Sincerely,

Chris

StoneNYC
7-Apr-2014, 09:20
Regardless of how this all pans out, communications with and within Fuji seem awkward. My impression is that our friends at Badger Graphics were trying to keep us informed, and given the source, this was pertinent information. Therefore, I suggest we get the best information possible from Fuji and we be gentle toward Badger.

Sincerely,

Chris

I completely agree, and I would say that the original poster was not badger graphics, so I was not trying to be hard toward them but rather trying to figure out which information was correct and trying to understand why people often post information that isn't true without first doing research and this causes all sorts of "scare" in the community... I hope it's all not true and Velvia is safe...

What film manufacturers don't seem to get (EDIT: from my perspective I believe) especially in this case is...

Velvia is better as a landscape film and landscape shooters who still use film are mostly shooting MF and LF, but shooters of Provia are shooting people and consuming lots in 35mm and 120... (Edit: from my personal observations over the past 2 years on the forums and in life).

So it APPEARS that in total Provia sells more actual footage, but doesn't mean it's a BETTER film, it's just better for that application. And those shooters tend to take a lot more frames...

Of course this translates into $

Ugh... Provia is OK for landscapes but not like Velvia...

dave_whatever
7-Apr-2014, 09:27
Provia does knock the socks off Velvia for very long exposures though. That slightly slatey colour palate can work in your favour at times, and for stuff like exposures under moonlight its several stops faster than Velvia.

StoneNYC
7-Apr-2014, 09:45
Provia does knock the socks off Velvia for very long exposures though. That slightly slatey colour palate can work in your favour at times, and for stuff like exposures under moonlight its several stops faster than Velvia.

To my understanding, Velvia50 has poor reciprocity, however Velvia100 and Provia100f have the same reciprocity characteristics, which would make your statement incorrect for the Velvia product being discussed (Velvai100).

dave_whatever
7-Apr-2014, 10:15
I was talking about Velvia as in RVP/RVP50, not the 100s (which I would have thought was obvious, but clearly not).

koh303
7-Apr-2014, 10:57
...trying to understand why people often post information that isn't true without first doing research and this causes all sorts of "scare" in the community... I hope it's all not true and Velvia is safe...

Funny you should ask this question, especially in light of the next paragraph:


landscape shooters who still use film are mostly shooting MF and LF, but shooters of Provia are shooting people and consuming lots in 35mm and 120...

So it APPEARS that in total Provia sells more actual footage, but doesn't mean it's a BETTER film, it's just better for that application. And those shooters tend to take a lot more frames...

Your extensive empirical research tell you that?

Leigh
7-Apr-2014, 10:58
I was talking about Velvia as in RVP/RVP50, not the 100s (which I would have thought was obvious, but clearly not).
Considering your previous post did not mention speed at all:

Provia does knock the socks off Velvia for very long exposures though. That slightly slatey colour palate can work in your favour at times, and for stuff like exposures under moonlight its several stops faster than Velvia.

Sorry, my crystal ball is out being re-polished.

- Leigh

StoneNYC
7-Apr-2014, 11:15
Funny you should ask this question, especially in light of the next paragraph:



Your extensive empirical research tell you that?

You are right... I should have stated, from my observation of the amount of landscape posts with larger formats vs the amount of people posts in smaller formats, these are my speculations based on those observations...

sorry for making it sound like a statement....

dave_whatever
7-Apr-2014, 11:58
Considering your previous post did not mention speed at all:


Sorry, my crystal ball is out being re-polished.

- Leigh

Sorry I don't understand, what do you mean? A crystal ball 100 or 100f doesn't need polishing.

Badger Graphic Sales, Inc
7-Apr-2014, 12:00
OMG. I just spoke with Cy Franks again. Now he is telling us it is NOT discontinued. Fuji does not do very well at communicating amongst themselves. The confusion was the part number change. A Fuji internal memo went out to everyone saying Velvia 100 was discontinued using the old part number. There was nothing on the memo stating the change to the new part number. FUJI VELVIA 100 HAS NOT BEEN DISCONTINUED at least for now.

StoneNYC
7-Apr-2014, 12:01
OMG. I just spoke with Cy Franks again. Now he is telling us it is NOT discontinued. Fuji does not do very well at communicating amongst themselves. The confusion was the part number change. A Fuji internal memo went out to everyone saying Velvia 100 was discontinued using the old part number. There was nothing on the memo stating the change to the new part number. FUJI VELVIA 100 HAS NOT BEEN DISCONTINUED at least for now.

This is what I said way earlier... The sku number changed...

Glad this is the case...

Viva la Velvia!

Brian C. Miller
7-Apr-2014, 12:06
OMG. I just spoke with Cy Franks again. Now he is telling us it is NOT discontinued.

There is only one way to offset panic buying: panic shooting! OK, everybody who went and stocked the freezer, load those filmholders and blaze away to glory! Or infamy. Whichever. Just not apathy, because that means that the film stays in the freezer.

BTW, thanks for dropping by on the forum.

Badger Graphic Sales, Inc
7-Apr-2014, 12:25
Not a bad idea Brian. Cy Franks did say the sales of Velvia 100 are way down compared to Provia. So to keep it around you need to get out and shoot. I shot a box myself over the past weekend.

MikeH
7-Apr-2014, 12:40
... Fuji does not do very well at communicating amongst themselves..


Regardless of how this all pans out, communications with and within Fuji seem awkward. My impression is that our friends at Badger Graphics were trying to keep us informed, and given the source, this was pertinent information. Therefore, I suggest we get the best information possible from Fuji and we be gentle toward Badger.

Sincerely,

Chris

I agree with all of this. My experience, both over the weekend, and this morning. with Fuji was horrible. I was trying to get answers and spent 1/2 hour this a.m. getting absolutely nowhere with Fuji. Mr. Franks, [or anyone with Fuji] are you monitoring this thread???

StoneNYC
7-Apr-2014, 12:56
If anyone is still confused...


Old Mat # New mat #
Velvia 100 4x5 (20) 16010382 16326157
Velvia 100 8x10 (20) 16010394 16326169

CFranks
7-Apr-2014, 14:00
Hi Everyone,

Has Fuji Velvia been discontinued in 4x5? Badger Graphic says that it has been discontinued, but I still see it listed at Freestyle and at B&H. What gives?


Hi Weihan,

I'm the Midwest Territory Sales Manager for FujiFilm and I'd like to clear up the current confusion about Velvia 100.
Unfortunately some of Fuji's customers including Jeff at Badger Graphics, that Velvia 100, in particular 4x5 & 8x10 were discontinued. I am not sure why Fuji CS would tell a customer that an item was discontinued rather than replaced. However we have had customers ordering using the old material #. Fuji Pro film has been transitioning through a packaging change since late last year. Its possible that customer service has been telling customers that the old material # has been discontinued without telling them there was a replacement in the system. Fuji Supply Chain & Customer Service have been notified of the issue and are looking into the disconnect in our ordering system.

Please note the new material #'s for these products.

Old Mat # New Mat #
Velvia 100 4x5 (20) 16010382 16326157
Velvia 100 8x10 (20) 16010394 16326169

I hope this clears up your concerns about the availability of Velvia 100 for now.

Thanks for supporting FujiFilm.

StoneNYC
7-Apr-2014, 14:40
Thanks for clearing that up Cy

~Stone

vinny
7-Apr-2014, 15:09
maybe if fuji got there heads out of their bottoms and took a communications course, they'd be selling more film rather than repackaging it and increasing the price again. regardless of what this thread says, those that shop at b&h, etc will now think it's "discontinued" and move on to an alternative (digital?). If I had a dollar for every time fuji has pulled a stunt like this, I'd be able to afford a box of 8x10 velvia 100.

Over and out.

MikeH
7-Apr-2014, 15:12
Cy:

Thanks for taking the time to respond.

StoneNYC
7-Apr-2014, 15:23
maybe if fuji got there heads out of their bottoms and took a communications course, they'd be selling more film rather than repackaging it and increasing the price again. regardless of what this thread says, those that shop at b&h, etc will now think it's "discontinued" and move on to an alternative (digital?). If I had a dollar for every time fuji has pulled a stunt like this, I'd be able to afford a box of 8x10 velvia 100.

Over and out.

If we want our relationship with Fuji to continue, tact and thoughtful response will help more than yelling at the guy, let's keep this positive, Fuji is still selling Velvia100

Leigh
7-Apr-2014, 16:44
OMG. I just spoke with Cy Franks again. Now he is telling us it is NOT discontinued.
Exactly the same thing happened when they discontinued 10-sheet boxes and went to 20-sheet boxes.

There were reports that the film had been discontinued, when in fact only the packaging changed.

Perhaps it's a translation problem.

- Leigh

Lachlan 717
7-Apr-2014, 18:40
Cy:

Thanks for taking the time to respond.

+1. Greatly appreciated.

BradS
7-Apr-2014, 21:26
Seems like this is not the first time that we've been subjected to this "SKU number change / Discontinued" ambiguity.

I do think that the North American reps of Japanese firms would benefit greatly from a two day course in Business communications with the Japanese (serious and sincere suggestion). I think taht we have once again fallen to a simple cultural mis-understanding.

Cy and Jeff... THANKS - you guys are both class acts.

Tim Meisburger
7-Apr-2014, 23:21
I read six pages of this and then could not take it anymore. What sucks for me is that the last E6 lab in Thailand closed in January and now I have nowhere to develop my film. Can anyone recommend a mail order lab in the US?

biedron
7-Apr-2014, 23:35
I read six pages of this and then could not take it anymore. What sucks for me is that the last E6 lab in Thailand closed in January and now I have nowhere to develop my film. Can anyone recommend a mail order lab in the US?

Tim,

I've been happy with Praus http://www.4photolab.com

Bob

Leigh
8-Apr-2014, 00:03
Can anyone recommend a mail order lab in the US?
Hi Tim,

Dodge Chrome is an excellent lab here in the DC area that will do processing by mail.
It's a large operation. They do some of the major displays in the Mid-Atlantic area.

http://www.dodgechrome.com

They're committed to supporting film work.
That's the lab I use for all my E-6 and b&w developing. Very high quality.

- Leigh

StoneNYC
8-Apr-2014, 01:05
Tim,

I've been happy with Praus http://www.4photolab.com

Bob

I second Praus, they are excellent!!

StoneNYC
8-Apr-2014, 01:07
I read six pages of this and then could not take it anymore. What sucks for me is that the last E6 lab in Thailand closed in January and now I have nowhere to develop my film. Can anyone recommend a mail order lab in the US?

Tim, the conclusion is that it is still available and was a sku number change and confusion when retailers tried to order with the old number.

Tim Meisburger
8-Apr-2014, 01:18
Thanks guys. Glad the film is still available, though I wish I could develop it here. Most of the color I have shot recently has been Fuji instant, which is okay for the hipsters but just doesn't have the quality I'm looking for. When I bought the Ebony the seller also sent me a box of color negative film, but I have not tried that yet. I miss Velvia 50, and in the old days (35mm), I loved Kodachrome. Oh well...

StoneNYC
8-Apr-2014, 01:32
Thanks guys. Glad the film is still available, though I wish I could develop it here. Most of the color I have shot recently has been Fuji instant, which is okay for the hipsters but just doesn't have the quality I'm looking for. When I bought the Ebony the seller also sent me a box of color negative film, but I have not tried that yet. I miss Velvia 50, and in the old days (35mm), I loved Kodachrome. Oh well...

I miss both, you're pretty close to japan, perhaps shipping Velvia50 from Japan to Thailand is not as expensive as shipping to the US?

Tim Meisburger
8-Apr-2014, 03:12
If they still have it in Japan I can ask someone from my office there to pick it up. But everything there seems expensive. China, on the other hand, is cheap for sheet film if you buy it in the country, but as far as I know they don't make color film, or at least color sheet film.

StoneNYC
8-Apr-2014, 05:47
If they still have it in Japan I can ask someone from my office there to pick it up. But everything there seems expensive. China, on the other hand, is cheap for sheet film if you buy it in the country, but as far as I know they don't make color film, or at least color sheet film.

Japan still makes Velvia50 but only for the Japanese market. So yes! Ask them! :)

Weihan
8-Apr-2014, 12:42
Many thanks for this prompt reply. This information does come as a very welcome relief because I've been a devoted Velvia user for many years now. The entire large format photography community lives in tacit fear that one day there will be no film medium left for us to use, necessitating the transition into digital. Film has a magic and mystique of its own, which simply cannot be duplicated by even the most sophisticated processors. If Fuji does decide in the future to rid itself of the "money pit" film production, let us hope that there is a devoted and able Chinese buyer who will keep the tradition going. Thanks again!
Hi Weihan,

I'm the Midwest Territory Sales Manager for FujiFilm and I'd like to clear up the current confusion about Velvia 100.
Unfortunately some of Fuji's customers including Jeff at Badger Graphics, that Velvia 100, in particular 4x5 & 8x10 were discontinued. I am not sure why Fuji CS would tell a customer that an item was discontinued rather than replaced. However we have had customers ordering using the old material #. Fuji Pro film has been transitioning through a packaging change since late last year. Its possible that customer service has been telling customers that the old material # has been discontinued without telling them there was a replacement in the system. Fuji Supply Chain & Customer Service have been notified of the issue and are looking into the disconnect in our ordering system.

Please note the new material #'s for these products.

Old Mat # New Mat #
Velvia 100 4x5 (20) 16010382 16326157
Velvia 100 8x10 (20) 16010394 16326169

I hope this clears up your concerns about the availability of Velvia 100 for now.

Thanks for supporting FujiFilm.

gmed
17-May-2014, 18:59
Wasn't Velvia 50 a better seller? Im trying to make sense why they decided to continue selling the 100, and stop selling 50 in the US?

StoneNYC
17-May-2014, 19:12
Wasn't Velvia 50 a better seller? Im trying to make sense why they decided to continue selling the 100, and stop selling 50 in the US?

No one can...

Best thought is that the Velvia100 has much better reciprocity characteristics and perhaps they thought in the end people would value it more, it's also possible the process was cheaper for V100, but it doesn't explain why they still sell it in Japan, unless it's just leftover stock.

Either way it's a frustrating choice between supporting V100 in the US or importing V50 from japan and risking not supporting the PERCIEVED US market...

Deval
18-Jun-2014, 06:17
I talked to Mike at AGX labs who has a good friend and contact at Fuji who is in charge of E-6. He unofficially quoted him that Fuji will commit to E-6 photography for at least two more years before making making any decisions to exit E-6. He also mentioned that one of the principal problems is major vendors such as B&H not wanting to carry film as they want to utilize space for digital. As E-6 is principally what Mike does as far as business, he is trying to convince Fuji to let him sell the film(possibly at cost). I certainly am one who would support him...

Leigh
18-Jun-2014, 06:29
Other problems for retailers are that film should be refrigerated, which is an added expense, and it expires unlike digital.

- Leigh

StoneNYC
18-Jun-2014, 08:22
I talked to Mike at AGX labs who has a good friend and contact at Fuji who is in charge of E-6. He unofficially quoted him that Fuji will commit to E-6 photography for at least two more years before making making any decisions to exit E-6. He also mentioned that one of the principal problems is major vendors such as B&H not wanting to carry film as they want to utilize space for digital. As E-6 is principally what Mike does as far as business, he is trying to convince Fuji to let him sell the film(possibly at cost). I certainly am one who would support him...

That's good news but surprising about B&H because they recently re-designed some of their site and put film first in a category before digital chips, and they always have stock, and the only time they ever didn't was when Fuji changed packaging and "discontinued" one package for another but made B&H and other retailers believe the film itself had been discontinued, when it was just a packaging change.

Maybe they aren't keeping as much stock because they keep upping the price so often the retailer is losing money on cheaper old stock?

And of course from film users who "stock up" but don't buy regularly, so many times orders are in bulk batches making it hard to know how much stock to keep.

But great to know at least there's 2 years left.

I think what really killed things was Velvia50 not being exported from japan anymore. I still can't get used to Velvia100 the same way I am with 50, it's frustrating... But I'm glad there is still Velvia at all, it's such a particular emulsion that I can see the day that only Provia100F is available... So I've got to get my images in now with Velvia while there's still time...

Brian C. Miller
18-Jun-2014, 09:47
I think what really killed things was Velvia50 not being exported from japan anymore.

What killed things for E6 was (is) basic popularity. E6 was less than 5% of Kodak's sales during the heyday of film. Once the pros (product photography, etc.) moved from E6 to digital, its popularity went down even further, to just the art photographers. At Glazer's Camera store the guys in the film section told me that E6 pretty much never moves.

Art photography is a very tiny fraction of the film market, and LF art photography is a tiny fraction of that. We are the gnat on the horns of the bull.

Jim Becia
18-Jun-2014, 10:42
I talked to Mike at AGX labs who has a good friend and contact at Fuji who is in charge of E-6. He unofficially quoted him that Fuji will commit to E-6 photography for at least two more years before making making any decisions to exit E-6. He also mentioned that one of the principal problems is major vendors such as B&H not wanting to carry film as they want to utilize space for digital. As E-6 is principally what Mike does as far as business, he is trying to convince Fuji to let him sell the film(possibly at cost). I certainly am one who would support him...

I would love to see Mike carry Fuji film. He currently processes nearly all my 8x10 and 4x10 film, and he does about 75% of my 5x7 film. He does great work and I try to send him as much business as I can. I am one who tends to stock up when I can, as I, like most of us, have no clue when the end of E-6 will come. In the past two months, I have ordered from both Badger and Adorama to the tune of 6 20 8x10 sheet boxes of Velvia 100. And like most people, really prefer the Velvia 50, but that is not going to happen, at least for now. I have noticed on eBay, that there is a particular Japanese seller that has over 100 boxes of 8x10 Velvia for sale. I have often thought of shooting him an email to see what kind of price break, if any, he would give on a 10, 20, or even 30 box order. The idea being to get the price down by getting (hopefully) some LF guys interested in a purchase. Of course, I realize that I am one of a small group of "silly" guys still shooting 8x10 transparency film, but I have to admit it is in my blood.

I have mentioned this in another post, but Adorama has 8x10 Velvia 100 at a very nice price right now - $225 a box of 20.

StoneNYC
18-Jun-2014, 13:21
I would love to see Mike carry Fuji film. He currently processes nearly all my 8x10 and 4x10 film, and he does about 75% of my 5x7 film. He does great work and I try to send him as much business as I can. I am one who tends to stock up when I can, as I, like most of us, have no clue when the end of E-6 will come. In the past two months, I have ordered from both Badger and Adorama to the tune of 6 20 8x10 sheet boxes of Velvia 100. And like most people, really prefer the Velvia 50, but that is not going to happen, at least for now. I have noticed on eBay, that there is a particular Japanese seller that has over 100 boxes of 8x10 Velvia for sale. I have often thought of shooting him an email to see what kind of price break, if any, he would give on a 10, 20, or even 30 box order. The idea being to get the price down by getting (hopefully) some LF guys interested in a purchase. Of course, I realize that I am one of a small group of "silly" guys still shooting 8x10 transparency film, but I have to admit it is in my blood.

I have mentioned this in another post, but Adorama has 8x10 Velvia 100 at a very nice price right now - $225 a box of 20.

There's a guy I was put in touch with in japan that would sell me Velvia 50 in 4x5 for under $100 after shipping, that was before the recent price hike, his 8x10 was also less than the eBay guy, I'm sure he would make a deal, but I think making sure Fuji see's "USA" purchases of Velvia 100 would help us more than the few savings we get now, once we are FORCED to buy from japan because Fuji stops exporting, the pricing will not be in our favor... Be penny wise and but from an American distributor, Fuji doesn't track us purchases made in japan....