new55 kickstarter has begun

[jp]

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/bobcrowley/new55-film

[drew.saunders]

I'm in for 4 boxes!

[Jim Cole]

I'm in for a single box.

[Fred L]

I'm in and fingers crossed the goal will be met !

[jcc]

1 box for the cause.

[ScottPhotoCo]

I'm in.

[Degroto]

THanks for posting the link JP. And thanks all for joining in. Lets hope we can make this a succes.

Peter
New55

[pound]

i am also in for a single box. and got a 545 holder from ebay.

[koh303]

I just pledged, though after reading the whole (very long) text, it seems like they need 400K (and for some reason are not counting the 9-12% KS and amazon cut off that) only to get the R&D off the ground, and not to actually go into production.
"This Kickstarter project is not a pre-order initiative. It is an attempt to fund the manufacturing capacity and product design effort for a new photographic film."

I hate to be a naysayer - but there is no commercial paper working machinary imaginable at the cost basis they are talking about, let alone machines that can do the complex things they want it to (edge taping, folding, splice adhesive etc.,).

Seems like they are so very early in the R&D stage, this is yet another kickstarter that will get funded with mega bucks only to find after the fact it cannot possibly deliver the promised product for even twice the raised amount.

I hope i am wrong - and my pledge is on good faith!

Good luck!

[jp]

They've been making images with various versions of their film for a couple years now. I think their budget is sort of middle of the road. They've got fans pulling to the low end as sort of a glorified DIY open source product, and people at the other end wanting abundances of cheap mass produced film. Gotta start somewhere.

[koh303]

They've been making images with various versions of their film for a couple years now. I think their budget is sort of middle of the road. They've got fans pulling to the low end as sort of a glorified DIY open source product, and people at the other end wanting abundances of cheap mass produced film. Gotta start somewhere.

Just reading the risks and challenges seems to be in contrary to the KS rules. Now i am not here to defend or protest those rules, but they are there to sort of protect the supporters of any project from giving money to things that will get funded, but then never get off the ground as far as production.

The guy who is running it seems to have an extensive background in design and manufacturing, which makes the goal they set even more strange.
Perhaps if they had matching funding from an external source...

The entire "risk summary" list is concerning due to some many open ends to have yet to be figured out, but most of all what does "Access to facilities and tools could be interrupted" mean? Is it a weather advisory, or a financial one? or perhaps something else...

Yes, they have been making some cool things, but if you read the blog you will see that recently all the work they have put in up to now has gone down the drain due to various suppliers and future plans that did not work out, and they recently needed to "start from scratch" (which is in the risk summary as well even now...). So i feel like there is fair chance that after 400K$ have been invested by two bit folk like us, they might have to "start from scratch" again, which might require yet another 400K$ to get off the ground. There is something i can't put my finger on that makes this feel not a realistic projection of bringing a product to market.

[koh303]

I am posting a note form the New55 cheif with regard to some of my concerns from APUG:

Good that you realize this is hard, and risky. That's what we want.

As far as the machines you refer to, in-house there is to be an edge taper of our own design. There are no steps in this product that require folding or splicing - these have been eliminated. The coating of the receiver is the concern, and the substrate, as mentioned. Making a new receiver sheet isn't easy since Polaroid kept the process a secret even from their own people, so we do have to nearly start from scratch. Also there is a lot of information, not in our intentionally conservative description, that has been published on http://new55project.blogspot.com. We put in what we needed to, and even that, as you say, is quite long.

Much of what we make today is via contract. Paper will be converted and die cut and metal parts obtained from the vendors. There isn't much reason to purchase and install roll to roll machinery that only has to run for a week to make the yardage needed for the product. There are several toll coating operations looking for contracts who can do that, for a price. We plan to do assembly, and packaging, here, and have developed handy dark work chambers that have been successful, and can be duplicated.

Thank you for your pledge - the comments you make are right on but you missed one thing - the per sheet price - that is also a common and valid objection. We are trying this on Kickstarter because so many of the interested supporters have insisted on it. The reaction we get from this is very valuable and tells us about the viability, or not, of new large format materials.

Thanks for your support and obviously you know about edge tapers and commercial paper working machinery, I'd welcome your advice on specific aspect of them.

Bob

[jcc]

I am posting a note form the New55 cheif with regard to some of my concerns from APUG:

Good that you realize this is hard, and risky. That's what we want.

As far as the machines you refer to, in-house there is to be an edge taper of our own design. There are no steps in this product that require folding or splicing - these have been eliminated. The coating of the receiver is the concern, and the substrate, as mentioned. Making a new receiver sheet isn't easy since Polaroid kept the process a secret even from their own people, so we do have to nearly start from scratch. Also there is a lot of information, not in our intentionally conservative description, that has been published on http://new55project.blogspot.com. We put in what we needed to, and even that, as you say, is quite long.

Much of what we make today is via contract. Paper will be converted and die cut and metal parts obtained from the vendors. There isn't much reason to purchase and install roll to roll machinery that only has to run for a week to make the yardage needed for the product. There are several toll coating operations looking for contracts who can do that, for a price. We plan to do assembly, and packaging, here, and have developed handy dark work chambers that have been successful, and can be duplicated.

Thank you for your pledge - the comments you make are right on but you missed one thing - the per sheet price - that is also a common and valid objection. We are trying this on Kickstarter because so many of the interested supporters have insisted on it. The reaction we get from this is very valuable and tells us about the viability, or not, of new large format materials.

Thanks for your support and obviously you know about edge tapers and commercial paper working machinery, I'd welcome your advice on specific aspect of them.

Bob

After following you folks or a couple of years, an underlying tone seems to keep surfacing—fear of failure. Understandably, no for-profit organization wants to be deployed in an environment where survival is slim to none. And if this Kickstarter turns out well (which I hope it will), will that be enough to convince you that this is worth doing? If you just wanted to make it a side project, you didn't have to go to press with it. You could have quietly been making small batches by hand, and no one would be the wiser. What will convince you to come out of this "side project that we didn't really want a Kickstarter, but 'so many of the interested supporters insisted on it'" mentality?

[StoneNYC]

My guess is that if they can get all the setup done with the funds, TIP and other partners 20x24 etc, will make an order large enough to keep them going...

But I agree there is a lot going on...

Big risk, big reward...

[Pete Watkins]

I was at the Photo / Camera show at the NEC in Birmingham (crap, it's in Solihul which is well outside Birmingham) and I asked the bloke on the Impossible stand abour 55 and he said that so much equipment was scrapped that it was never going to happen under "Impossible".
Pete.

[StoneNYC]

I was at the Photo / Camera show at the NEC in Birmingham (crap, it's in Solihul which is well outside Birmingham) and I asked the bloke on the Impossible stand abour 55 and he said that so much equipment was scrapped that it was never going to happen under "Impossible".
Pete.

They told me this too, but they would BUY the film as a re-seller...

[bracan]

Im in for one box.
Keep rollin guys!

[arca andy]

Having bemoaned the passing of Type 55 for years now I thought I should put my (small amount) of money where my mouth is...I hope they make it!!

[scm]

Update #1 - 17% Funded in 12% of Time
(https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/bobcrowley/new55-film/posts/792653)

[Andrew O'Neill]

I hope this picks up more momentum (as it's moving slow) and is successful!

[Brian C. Miller]

Well, if everybody involved right now ups the ante to $800 each, then it's funded, no problem. (But there's no t-shirt at the $750 level, and it's limited to 100 people!)

[swhiser]

Thank you, everyone, for your good wishes.

The New55 FILM Kickstarter campaign came about because the expression of interest was emphatic and persistent. The number of people was significant and continues to grow. Also, interest -- as reflected in the backers' domiciles -- is borderless.

There would have been no point in hand-manufacturing small runs going forward. The variability is too great and the cost prohibitive. Also, we needed to establish the assembly line and also finish designing and specifying the complex receiver sheet (which then dictates the developer pod design and contents). It's impossible to get vendors and component suppliers to do this without a certain commitment to quantity. It's an exceedingly normal manufacturing exercise.

I would suggest also that the New55 FILM manufacturing scale-up plan has the normal risks of a complex project with numerous concurrent variables. Viewed realistically, the hurdles are high but not insurmountable. We feel it is imperative to be explicit about what is involved. That's why our Kickstarter project page is not a marketing text but a realistic disclosure of the challenges. Honesty in this context can be shocking. Kickstarter is not a store and our project is not a pre-order initiative but a manufacturing project. It is different from the way Kickstarter has generally been used, but nevertheless meets their own increasingly strict guidelines.

It's gratifying that so many large format photographers have made a clear statement by pledging early to the project and a large number have even increased their pledges by this early date. Having looked at many of the backers' own websites -- and recognizing a few names -- we're impressed that the project has attracted the very best camera workers from across the globe. Considering the quality of old T55 and the devotion to its tonality, convenience and permanence, this should have been no surprise at all.

Thank you for your interest and considerate support. If you should have specific questions or thoughts you would like to express directly, we're happy to hear from you.

-Sam Hiser

project CEO
new55project.com

[Larry Kellogg]

Go, go, go! I'm in for two boxes.

[eman]

This would be too bad if, after all their work, it can't get funding. Here's someone who is doing something about disappearing films by making one so anyone bemoaning the loss of this or that film, they can do something about it. I have no stake in it, but like most folks here, would like to see it succeed.

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects...m/posts/812561

[DennisD]

It's unfortunate there hasn't been stronger support to date for the NEW55 project.
The following message was posted earlier this morning and emailed to contributors:

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects...m/posts/812561

[rdenney]

Threads merged. Please keep all discussion of this announcement in this thread.

Rick "who has backed this effort" Denney

[Andrew O'Neill]

Both links don't work for me...

[Brian C. Miller]

Try this: We Probably Won't Make It (https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/bobcrowley/new55-film/posts/812561)

Looks like a bug in the forum software messed up the automatic link parsing.

(added)
I mean, really, there's 751 people supporting the project who actually want instant sheet film badly enough to spend $75 for 5 sheets. Personally, I'm looking at that as there are less than 1,000 photographers on the face of the planet who would keep something this small in operation. Others on the forum would use the film only if it cost less than loose sheet film.

I would use this product at $15 a pop if it means that I can asses whether a shot is right, because then I don't have to reschedule a shoot, check the tides, wait for good weather, yadda yadda yadda yadda. An incident meter and maybe some math will tell me if I've got the exposure right. I can do sunny f/16 on chrome with no problem. But it doesn't tell me that the focus has shifted a little bit due to the tripod settling, and I get nailed with an out-of-focus negative.

[Andrew O'Neill]

It worked. Thanks Brian.

[Tracy Storer]

I'm in, I hope everyone who is thinking of maybe backing this, actually does so. I have, please join me !

[ShawnHoke]

Backed, but worried that they won't make their goal. I've had the film holder for awhile. It would be a real shame for this to fail.

[adelorenzo]

I just backed the project, albeit at a lower tier. I hope to get my pledge up to the 10-box level before it closes.

Hard to argue with the dooming math on this project but all I can do it put my money where my mouth is.

[Brian C. Miller]

The thing is, the project was imagined to have lots of people backing it, at low levels. Unfortunately, the project simply can't succeed without an insanely enormous groundswell, just based on the funding options. Even if the $200 level and above are fully backed, that won't be enough to float the project because there just aren't enough people.

The population numbers just aren't there.

In this case, the phrase "everyone paddling" means about 1,000 people who want that film. But that's not enough to support the project as the funding is structured.

[Thad Gerheim]

I'm in for 10 boxes!

[StoneNYC]

The thing is, the project was imagined to have lots of people backing it, at low levels. Unfortunately, the project simply can't succeed without an insanely enormous groundswell, just based on the funding options. Even if the $200 level and above are fully backed, that won't be enough to float the project because there just aren't enough people.

The population numbers just aren't there.

In this case, the phrase "everyone paddling" means about 1,000 people who want that film. But that's not enough to support the project as the funding is structured.

In my opinion, the big excitement and push would have been 2 years ago, now, the environment has changed. Unfortunately they waited too long :(

[adelorenzo]

We all know talk is cheap, money talks, etc... Succeed or fail a lot of credit has to go to Bob and Sam for getting the work done and putting this out there. We'll know in a few weeks if it's viable or not but either way the question will have been answered and probably for good.

I know at one time they were considering if they were unable to fund the project they would openly release their research, giving people an opportunity to try to DIY the materials.

[Brian C. Miller]

Unfortunately they waited too long :(

No, they were busy developing a product. I've been reading their blog and following along since they started. They couldn't do this two years ago, simply because they didn't have a product to produce. They've done a lot of work and research, and have even taken out a patent. It's only now that they can take this to the next level. That's all there is to it, unfortunately.

I'm fairly sure that if they could have launched the start on manufacturing two years ago, they would have done it. Unfortunately, a Type 55 alternate would have had its best success immediately after Polaroid gave up the ghost, when there was still Polaroid stock on the shelves. Come to think of it, I don't remember it flying off the shelves then, when you think that people would have stocked up.

This is not a product for the convenience crowd. We, large format photographers, don't haul around these beasts because they are small and cute. A Polaroid camera is nice and compact. A Toyo, Graflex, or Linhof isn't exactly cuddly. When I head out with my camera, everything goes into a bike bag, not a pocket. Those who need speed and convenience have long since moved to something that gives them exactly that.

And according to Kicktraq (http://www.kicktraq.com/projects/bobcrowley/new55-film/#chart-daily), we've had a big bounce up. Apparently I'm not the only one who has upped his pledge, and there's been a number of new backers.

[blevblev]

Come on guys - is 75 bucks really going to kill you? Large format photography people? Anyone who doesn't kick in is doing themselves and the rest of us a disservice.

[Brian C. Miller]

Yeah, if:

Large Format Photography Forum Statistics
Active Members: 3,799

3,800 * $75 = $285,000

then of course the project would make it with the additional money.

But here's the thing: if you don't have a 545 holder, what's the point of supporting the project? I imagine that everybody who signed up for a box of film did so because they can actually use that film. But what's the point of signing up if you don't have a holder, and will never use the film? Those holders aren't being made anymore, so they are only available used. Sure, it would be nice if everybody chipped in something, but it's only at the $75 level that it makes sense for the project. (And there are soooo many gripes about the cost of film...)

Right now, it looks like a dead cat bounce (http://www.investopedia.com/terms/d/deadcatbounce.asp).

[koh303]

545 backs are a dime a dozen... There were millions made.

[Brian C. Miller]

eBay shows 124 results, substantially lower than 3,800. Sure, there were millions made. How many ended up in a landfill? (Along with so many precious things.)

[anglophone1]

124 today means there are loads out there- heck I have three!

[anglophone1]

And I have 12 boxes of original 55!

[koh303]

eBay shows 124 results, substantially lower than 3,800. Sure, there were millions made. How many ended up in a landfill? (Along with so many precious things.)

You can usually get a 545 for under 20$ (in most cases 0.99$ + shipping, this has been the case for at least 5-6 years now).
If you or anyone else ever have a hard time finding one (out of 124 options you have much more selection then say, a 550 back...) let me know and i will hook you up. That said, it would have not hurt the KS project to have some rewards containing a back...

[Brian C. Miller]

I actually still have my 545 back. And a box of Type 55, and a box or two or ReadyLoads.

So this means everybody can stump up for $75!!!

Arrrghh, offa yer lazy arses, ye mangy curs! Put alla yer shoulders into it and HEAVE! HO! HEAVE! HO!

[adelorenzo]

I have two 545 backs. Once cost me $1 and one was free.

If the lack of a back is stopping anyone from backing the project feel free to PM me. If you back the project and it succeeds, I will send my spare one to you at my own cost (Canada/US only).

[Steve Goldstein]

There's another reason for supporting the New55 project even if you're not interested in the initial Polaroid-55-like product. A large fraction of the equipment and technology they need seems quite similar to what would be needed to make Quick/Ready Loads, and that would seem a logical product extension beyond instant p/n material. If you've ever complained about the demise of Readyloads you should consider supporting this campaign.

[feppe]

They've made some strange choices with the rewards and marketing. T-shirts cost money, which is out of the development budget. I have a feeling that the target audience isn't exactly the type to get excited about t-shirts. And making, packing and sending hundreds of t-shirts all around the world will take days on end.

Also, there's no quantity discount: 10 boxes costs 10 times one box. Even with a (re-)pioneering project like this one would expect some discount to encourage you to spend more.

Backed nevertheless. Although I use digital to check lighting levels in the studio, I really need polaroids to keep my sanity and ensure my PC port hasn't failed. Yet again.

The project has a good chance of success. It is typical for a campaign to stagnate mid-way, and such projects typically have very high volume of pledges in the last couple of days. Posting "sky is falling" messages in the feed doesn't help, though.

[EdSawyer]

I will buy the product if and when it gets to market. But I am not a kickstarter backer. I still have significant doubts in their ability to come up with a suitable receiver sheet.

[swhiser]

There's another reason for supporting the New55 project even if you're not interested in the initial Polaroid-55-like product. A large fraction of the equipment and technology they need seems quite similar to what would be needed to make Quick/Ready Loads, and that would seem a logical product extension beyond instant p/n material. If you've ever complained about the demise of Readyloads you should consider supporting this campaign.

Good point, Steve.

-Sam Hiser

[djhopscotch]

Also, there's no quantity discount: 10 boxes costs 10 times one box. Even with a (re-)pioneering project like this one would expect some discount to encourage you to spend more.


Kickstarter doesn't allow for quantity discounts.it's not a store and this isn't a pre-order. This is to fund the start up of a new product.

[cabbiinc]

I will buy the product if and when it gets to market. But I am not a kickstarter backer. I still have significant doubts in their ability to come up with a suitable receiver sheet.

Are you saying that you don't think that they already have all of the plans in place? Or that the plans they have are unfeasable? From what I've seen on their blog they have everything thought out, including a receiver sheet.

By the way, the way Kickstarter works is it's all or nothing with the funding part of it. If there's not enough pledges to meet the $400k goal then nobody pays.

[DennisD]

IMHO when you volunteer to fund this project you are simply saying "yes" to a dream !

Polaroid died and with it went 55P/N. Those who used the original 55 know what a marvelous film/negative it produced.

This is about your faith and belief that 55 should be brought back to life.... And it is really the one (and only) opportunity photographers have to support such a project. If new55 fails to reach its goal, there will be NO follow up project.

The people behind the new55 have devoted substantial amounts of time and effort to get to where they are today. We must believe their intentions are good and that a product will result if the project is funded. Remember, there us no guaranty (even if the goal is reached) that a product will be forthcoming.

The new55 kickstarter project is really not, with all due respect, about your getting a quantity discount on the film reward or whether you are skeptical about the project's ability to find an appropriate receiver sheet. If someone wants to pick at the reward structure or cast doubt on aspects of the product design, you could probably go on for days.

It's easy to have doubts about the project success. However, we must value the time and effort Crowley, Hiser and others have devoted to getting to this point. They certainly have reached a point of confidence that this is the right time to "call the question" and allow the larger community to show it's support.

I'm willing to support the project simply on the HOPE it will succeed. I believe the project team is competent and that others must have similar feelings based on the strength shown so far. However, nobody should give more than they can afford to lose. But if you believe in this project, this is the time to show support.. Remember, you are also casting a vote for continuation of a traditional film process.

If you don't show support for new55 now, do not expect another opportunity after May 5th.

[Andrew O'Neill]

Have the New55 people said which film they'll be using? I remember reading once on their blog that Efke 25, tri-x, HP5+, and others, were good candidates, but did they actually say which film?

[Brian C. Miller]

They've made some strange choices with the rewards and marketing. T-shirts cost money, which is out of the development budget. I have a feeling that the target audience isn't exactly the type to get excited about t-shirts. And making, packing and sending hundreds of t-shirts all around the world will take days on end.

The t-shirt option is $50, which should be fairly profitable for just a t-shirt. I have no idea of what the wholesale price on them is, though.


Have the New55 people said which film they'll be using? I remember reading once on their blog that Efke 25, tri-x, HP5+, and others, were good candidates, but did they actually say which film?

Perhaps Foma 200. (blog link, Feb 10, 2014 (http://new55project.blogspot.com/2014/02/foma-200-with-new55.html)) Efke was their primary choice, but then they died. Tri-X was very high in contrast. Foma might work. It's only been a couple of months since that post, and no update on the film.

[adelorenzo]

It is common on Kickstarter for people to offer lower-tier rewards that don't include the actual product. T-shirts, sticker packs, postcards... A lot of people will back a project just to be part of it and show support or even back it for $1 just to get backer updates. If I was not someone who would shoot this film I'd back it for a T-shirt or something just in support.

I just bumped my pledge up to 8 boxes, they are getting really close to 50% funded.

[Andrew O'Neill]

Thank you, Brian.

[feppe]

For those on the fence, I'd like to re-iterate: if the project doesn't reach the goal of $400k, they don't get any money, and the project will likely die for eternity. If you ever want to shoot with this film, now is the time to pledge; there will be no other opportunity.


Kickstarter doesn't allow for quantity discounts.it's not a store and this isn't a pre-order. This is to fund the start up of a new product.

Having backed 10+ projects, I know how KS works. The project creator can create reward levels which amount to quantity discount. Possibly there's a KS policy proscribing such activity, though.

[Brian C. Miller]

The project is now 60% funded.

Only 40% more to go.

[Witold Grabiec]

I have placed my own pledge, but have to say that curators of this project do not come through as having complete confidence in reaching the final goal. I am certain that compassion was far more of the factor in their involvement than any eventual commercial success, but why in the world would anyone want to scare people off with the "we probably won't make it" feed? This may be seen as a honest estimate of the outcome, but to me it is a sign of significant weakness, which does not bode well for the future of this project. Given that, it should not be hard to understand those who see the tunnel, perhaps a light, but not the direction required to reach that light.

It is true that market is no longer supportive enough of a larger scale production of New55 type product, but this was not the time to remind everyone of it. Unless, there is no more gas in the tank irrespective of the funding success. The message feels like the people driving it have not only lost confidence in the kickstarter campaign, but also in the viability of the product involved. I hope New55 will have to come existence, even if I myself will not be a significant user (based on price projections).

[Jac@stafford.net]

Just a tip: the t-shirt is creepy.
I'll go in next month.

[Bill_1856]

I hate to always be the naysayer, but I think that it would be a lot more productive to revive "Quickloads" with a current emulsion than the old Polaroid 55 which required that one carry a bucket of liquid Sodium Sulfate(ite?) and had a different exposure for the positive and the negative.

[adelorenzo]

Bill: Unlike the Polaroid product, New 55 does not require a different exposure for the positive and negative. You don't need to process them in the field you can always expose them and then take them back before processing.

Also, New 55 is working with a current B&W film emulsion. If they are able to get their first product off the ground I am sure they have thought of things like quick-loads as a future product.

[Witold Grabiec]

From the "We probably won;t make it"


Here at Kickstarter, we have tested the market and are in the process of confirming what we imagined was true: that THERE JUST AREN'T ENOUGH SHEET FILM REGULARS IN THE WORLD to support an esoteric material like New55 FILM

This is what bothers me probably the most. Like they really only wanted to prove to themselves that the whole idea was in fact NOT worth it (read not a financially viable opportunity). I'm beginning to question their genuineness. Why else would they put out a message like this with quite a few days to go in the campaign? Timing is curious.

[Brian C. Miller]

Like they really only wanted to prove to themselves that the whole idea was in fact NOT worth it (read not a financially viable opportunity). I'm beginning to question their genuineness. Why else would they put out a message like this with quite a few days to go in the campaign? Timing is curious.

Over on APUG, Simon Galley was asked about Ilford producing a ____Load product. He answered that Ilford's marketing team had looked at it, and had concluded that there woudn't be enough demand for the product to be viable.

When you look at the backing for the New55 project, what do you see? Seriously, do you see over 3,500 active LFPF members supporting the project? No. No love, not for $75, not for $50, not for $25. Cold stone hearts! And this is for film, the life blood of photography. In theory, every active LFPF member on here should have pitched in for at least $25. (I'm guessing that "active" according to the forum software is something who has logged in within X number of days, so they probably know about the project.)

Bob posted a realistic assessment. There aren't enough LF photographers who care! Fujifilm dumped the FP100C45 product for a good reason: not enough love, precisely expressed in money. Ilford's marketing team figured that out, too.

Bob is quite serious about the project, but it can only realistically become a commercial product if it has backing. No money, no product, Bob moves on to something else. He's done big things before, and he'll do more to come. This is probably his only foray into photography projects. If this is to succeed, then more people need to drop a dollar in the jar.

Currently the Kickstarter project is over 60% of its funding goal. It could theoretically make it, or maybe not. Who knows?

[StoneNYC]

Over on APUG, Simon Galley was asked about Ilford producing a ____Load product. He answered that Ilford's marketing team had looked at it, and had concluded that there woudn't be enough demand for the product to be viable.

When you look at the backing for the New55 project, what do you see? Seriously, do you see over 3,500 active LFPF members supporting the project? No. No love, not for $75, not for $50, not for $25. Cold stone hearts! And this is for film, the life blood of photography. In theory, every active LFPF member on here should have pitched in for at least $25. (I'm guessing that "active" according to the forum software is something who has logged in within X number of days, so they probably know about the project.)

Bob posted a realistic assessment. There aren't enough LF photographers who care! Fujifilm dumped the FP100C45 product for a good reason: not enough love, precisely expressed in money. Ilford's marketing team figured that out, too.

Bob is quite serious about the project, but it can only realistically become a commercial product if it has backing. No money, no product, Bob moves on to something else. He's done big things before, and he'll do more to come. This is probably his only foray into photography projects. If this is to succeed, then more people need to drop a dollar in the jar.

Currently the Kickstarter project is over 60% of its funding goal. It could theoretically make it, or maybe not. Who knows?

Not many supported my Eastman Double-X project either, some projects just aren't worth the money, this one is unique, especially now that 3000B is gone, there's no more B&W instant film made at all.

The NEW-55 would be neat to have, but the fact is, there are other, better films that should be supported with this money, films that if NOT bought, will go away, like Velvia in sheet film sizes... Heck 8x10 isn't easy to get in Velvia100 even now.

This is what others told me shoot my Eastman project, that the money shouldn't go to something esoteric and expensive, but instead to something still available and sure to be missed when gone, so that we keep it alive, rather than trying to play Frankenstein... It sucks, but it's reality. I've held back because I wanted to see if it would go, but I feel by now I can say this without it affecting the outcome in anyway.

[Fred L]

Thing is, there is no other similar product out there. Eastman Double X really didn't offer anything worthwhile for photographers that was worth the price of admission as there are already wonderful b/w films out there.

New55 however, sought to produce something akin to what many loved and dearly miss. I ponied up a decent pledge and am thinking of doubling down because I believe this product will fill a niche. and that may be the word that puts this over the top. or kills it…'niche'.

If only my lottery numbers came in, I would back the rest of this as well as other Kodak special orders lol

[Kimberly Anderson]

In.

[Brian C. Miller]

The NEW-55 would be neat to have, but the fact is, there are other, better films that should be supported with this money, films that if NOT bought, will go away, like Velvia in sheet film sizes... Heck 8x10 isn't easy to get in Velvia100 even now.

Polaroid Type 55 never competed with color films, it complemented them. I would make a test shot on the Type 55, and then make the color shots knowing I got things right. Same way with FP100C45, but no instant negative. (Not without effort, anyways.)

Instant film is really great when a person is way out there, and you want to verify that everything is really locked down.

Even if someone's budget really is limited, I do think they should support the project, even at the $25 level. Sure, if everybody were in for at least $250 then this project would fly right now. But we really just have to wait and see. Maybe there's 2,000 people in the wings just holding their breath, maybe not.

[StoneNYC]

Thing is, there is no other similar product out there. Eastman Double X really didn't offer anything worthwhile for photographers that was worth the price of admission as there are already wonderful b/w films out there.

New55 however, sought to produce something akin to what many loved and dearly miss. I ponied up a decent pledge and am thinking of doubling down because I believe this product will fill a niche. and that may be the word that puts this over the top. or kills it…'niche'.

If only my lottery numbers came in, I would back the rest of this as well as other Kodak special orders lol

Actually, the Eastman Double-X was fully funded, and then kodak came back and said "whoops, just kidding, we know we asked for 3 times the original price, and you came back and met that price (which went from $100 a box to $300 a box) but now we want you to come up with 3 times more buyers than we told you we needed, sorry, our bad...."

That's what killed it, but we had the backers and the money already actually paid for and the check sent to kodak.

Eastman Double-X does have something special, but ultimately, they money came back to us all, and as for me, I picked up some sweet processing equipment with the refund.

Such is life... The thing we can all take away is that, if you don't ask, you certainly already have a NO, so by asking, you at least has a maybe, and that's worth the risk in asking...

So that's what New-55 is doing... And perhaps just maybe, somehow, it will happen.

Perhaps they can convince the guy who bought that whole pallet load of 8x10 Velvia50 to buy in and cover the rest ;)

Whatever happens, if it doesn't go through, I hope people spend the money buying more Velvia100 or Velvia50... Cause that's the one I fear is next... The one I need in my life to keep me in the film game.

[dave_whatever]

....films that if NOT bought, will go away, like Velvia in sheet film sizes...

Velvia sheet film hasn't gone anywhere, literally - its still in Japan and readily available.

[StoneNYC]

Velvia sheet film hasn't gone anywhere, literally - its still in Japan and readily available.

Not in 8x10.... You can't buy it in Acros100 or Velvia50 on 8x10 new because they stopped cutting it.

And yea, japan .... Not the US, it's already expensive without having to pay shipping from japan.

Also this causes an offset of the view of where Sales are viewed as most interest. Because Fuji won't know that many of the sales of V50 are being imported to the US and V100 sales might drop in the US and the there's none easily available.

And don't try and say, "well it's available you just need to pay to play" that shipping cost for small quantities really eats into the total amount one person can purchase and does offset the amount people will purchase in a given year. This drops the use of it and to Fuji, this shows a decline. That's all they see. They don't track where the purchase goes, Judy the orders from distributors.

Anyway... Very frustrating stuff. And the reason V50 is only available in japan now, and not cut in 8x10 is the decline of sales in general, so, it's on it's way out, I hope you can see that...

[Kodachrome25]

I went in for 4 boxes mostly to support those who really want this product...think of my needs for Kodak products next time any of you decide to bash them.

The other reason being is that he is going to use a film that is already made as the negative component, so his product will invariably support another one currently made. And when I got to thinking about it, this could be a good operative for a service I am considering offering in the future. I also PM'd him and told him to knock off the defeatist crap, it does no one any good and is truly the opposite of what gets people excited about something...."Negative Nancy" does not get a date, let alone a marriage proposal...

As for the reference to color materials above, Stone...there is a wall that *may* have writing on it and then there is simply writing on the wall. I hope for the sake of people who want to use the materials that those stocks stay around, they certainly are unique but are in another league in terms of complexity, cost of manufacture and it does not look good. I stocked up on what I plan to shoot of it which is not much, I think far more long term than that as I suspect others do too and long term for E-6 to me says it is terminal.

I'm not sure if this project will make it, time is indeed running short and if it does not, well there is some sorely needed market info. In reading another thread regarding statements made by Ilford's Michael Bain, medium and large format film sales continue to see "Steady Growth" so we can not gauge the LF market as a whole by a project like this succeeding or not...lots of photographers smartly choose to avoid the internet, so there are others out there.

I did my part, we'll see what happens...

[Witold Grabiec]

By Kodachrome25

The other reason being is that he is going to use a film that is already made as the negative component, so his product will invariably support another one currently made

This is an excellent point. Looking at the New55 project I'm seeing more and more mistakes in earlier marketing (or lack thereof), which in case they don't make it, is going to be a big part of the blame. But again, the feed from Sam Hiser is strange and really makes sense only, if it was meant to say ..."we're actually folding our efforts and we'd rather not see the kickstarter funding to materialize". Even, if I remain hopeful we'll see this product live, I'm growing weary of a project which is asking for a donation in the $400,000 range with zero guarantees.

[Witold Grabiec]

Given the amount of money involved, I felt I needed to voice below opinion while realizing, it may sway some away from backing it. Everyone should look at it from his/her own perspective.

Someone said before: "I'll buy the actual product, but without a pledge" and I'm beginning to see it the same way.

The New55 project surely seems like a noble idea, and is certainly pitched that way.

$400 k of play money, no guarantees, no equity offers on the table. Is this really a serious project? I don't see any plans or tools for its backers to monitor when the funds are being used either (again, project gives no guarantees of delivering anything, so if there is nothing in the end, who is to tell where the money went?) Am I overly suspicious? Probably (and I hope I am), but that changes nothing on the project's transparency front. If there is anything on the Kickstarter that counters this, perhaps somebody can show me where it is?

Some will say: what's $25 to you (or any amount)? Wouldn't you want the product come out?

And I'll surely would reply: I'd like to see it, I would also use it.

All the same, I would also state that when someone is asking for a big chunk of doe while leaving himself every possible option to deliver nothing, he is (at least) questioning the possibility of final success, while having no trouble asking for serious funding anyway.

So I'm on the outside looking in.

[adelorenzo]

$400 k of play money, no guarantees, no equity offers on the table. Is this really a serious project? I don't see any plans or tools for its backers to monitor when the funds are being used either (again, project gives no guarantees of delivering anything, so if there is nothing in the end, who is to tell where the money went?) Am I overly suspicious? Probably (and I hope I am), but that changes nothing on the project's transparency front. If there is anything on the Kickstarter that counters this, perhaps somebody can show me where it is?

That's the gist of Kickstarter. You pay the money, you take the ride with the creators to see if they can make it to the end or not. It doesn't work for everybody, there is no shame in staying out. I've got my money in there with full knowledge of what may or may not happen.

What you do have in the case of New 55 is a project that has been moving forward for the past 3-4 years with a lot of well-documented research, steps forward and steps back. You also have the documented support of a lot of credible people and places like 20x24 studios. You know something about the history of Bob and Sam and you know that they've been working on a business plan.

You can take all that but at the end of the day there is some faith involved.

I'll just add that I've backed over 20 Kickstarter projects to date and I've been happy with the outcome of every one of them. The failures get blown out of proportion to the successes.

[Brian C. Miller]

Witold,
#1: Do you think that the start-up cost for building the manufacturing machinery is unrealistic?
#2: Do you think that the stated risks are unrealistic?

I think that Bob has stated things quite realistically. He's had prior experience in regards to bringing innovative products to market, and, given funding, that New55 can succeed, too. However, he can't get normal funding for this, and commercial lenders aren't going to lend startup money for a known user base of 1,500 people. Bob isn't one of the fly-by-night patent medicine hawkers. One again: Bob has a good track record.

As for asking for a lot of money, I've seen a number of projects for video games that asked for, and received, far more money. One project, Neal Stephenson's Clang!, wound up spending all the money on costs, never paid the developers who did the work, but did deliver an alpha version to the supporters.

What's the real probability that New55 will go down in flames even if Bob gets full funding? I say, "low." There isn't a lot more R&D to be done. What he needs is the machinery that will be used to assemble the sheet assemblies. If Bob had started the project saying, "I need $500,000 to do basic R&D," then I would never funded this. But the base R&D has been done (on Bob's own dime!), and now it's time for the machinery.

For the project to succeed, it needs to raise an average of $25,000 per day over the next five days. So, yeah, sitting it out may really mean the difference of the project succeeding or never seeing any product like Type 55 again. Ilford has categorically stated that they will not even pursue a *Load product. New55 is it, take it or leave it.

[ScottPhotoCo]

I have to agree with Brian. This is a huge opportunity for ALL film photographers, whether they use instant film or not. If we demonstrate that there is still demand for even what many consider a niche product others will take notice and it will help even solidify what other film options we have now.

Also, people who may not be shooting film may try this as they can get the immediate gratification that they are used to in the digital world. Once they see how beautiful LF images can look they may continue to other films or just stick with this option.

It's about momentum, opportunity and perceptions. With the success of this effort we may help, even if in just a little way, the general perception that film is gone or going away. And that's a win for us all.

Tim
www.ScottPhoto.co

[ScottPhotoCo]

And on that note, I also just doubled my pledge. :)

[Witold Grabiec]

An equity offer would have completed Kickstarter campaign a long time ago. Why isn't it there?

Majority of Kickstarters are low ball affairs with easy cost prediction. When you pledge say $25 for someone to publish a book and you get the book in the end, you know the risks of NOT getting one are practically non existent (quality of the book aside). New55 offers nothing as a matter of precaution and whether the stated risks are realistic will only have been known when the time comes to deliver, and that is a far away date. At the same time it is a LOT of money they are after. I'm not sure, if some backers actually understand this concept, where even the smallest donation goes towards a large compiled sum with exit gates opened in more than one place.

Where is the transparency of expenditures as they come from Kickstarter funding? This probably bothers me the most in the whole deal. When you ask for funding, you should have a pretty clear plan of how you are going to prove your spending, so in the end (and especially, if the end is sad) people at least won't be questioning how they went about it (and I would expect a LOT of questions from backers, and non, regarding it).

If you have pledged for say 4 boxes and (especially) your decision to join in was more based on sympathy than actual need, how are you going to respond, if there is no 4 boxes in the end? Is everyone really going to just keep quiet and say nothing? I may be the only one here who would expect a provable monitoring of expenditures, but this should be also in the interest of project's curators to have it in place prior to even initiating the Kickstarter. The fact it isn't there is worrisome.

Some of you may know Bob and associates personally and that may make them comfortable with any pledge they make. Nor do I question any R&D that had already been completed. However, given how the use of the $400 k funding is explained, it is quite clear to me that the authors themselves are unsure of the outcome production wise.

So yes, I see it as $400 k of play money with no guarantees and potentially a lot of people more than disappointed.

P.S. This is the only thread or place I'm stating my concerns about the project. I'm not spreading this around the web. It is not my intention to derail the project, although I have a good reason to believe a lot of backers are not realistic about their own expectations. It would be great to have film products available indefinitely (different discussion though) and I agree the New55 would support sustainability (or perhaps even growth) of film production. I hope it does.

[feppe]

Many people don't seem to understand how KS works. It is not a pre-order, and you are certainly taking a risk in backing any project.

But this project appears to be well researched, and they have a working product. They got bitten by the amateurish marketing mistakes they made early in the campaign - partly for legitimate reasons, partly since everyone expect slick marketing campaigns and smoothness from the talking heads these days.

But I'm not backing a marketing campaign, I'm backing the product creators. Given the lack of instant film in 4x5 format this is the only possible option in the foreseeable future for us. Therefore I'm more than willing to take the risk, and become part of photographic history in the (re-)making.

I just upped my pledge to ten boxes. That should keep me stocked for at least a year of shooting. After that? I hope others will pick up the rest of the 100k of funding left to go, so that after a year there will be more boxes made!

[HoodedOne]

Great article on the New55 kickstarter, and the future of film.


http://landcameras.com/news/dear-privileged-1st-world-film-photographer/

[hoffner]

Guys, just don't get overheated. Just in a few days it's over altogether.

[swhiser]

An equity offer would have completed Kickstarter campaign a long time ago. Why isn't it there?

[snip]

[snip] When you ask for funding, you should have a pretty clear plan of how you are going to prove your spending... [snip]

[snip]


Witold-

If by 'equity' you mean something like common stock ownership in a company, neither the United States Securities and Exchange Commission nor Kickstarter rules permit offering securities there.

This is not to say that New55 Holdings, LLC, will not entertain a private round of investment at some point in the future but simply that Kickstarter is not the place for it.

Regarding the plan to manufacture New55 FILM, we're pretty explicit in the text of the Kickstarter page. Perhaps you misread or skipped over the summary statement of the budget under "Use of Proceeds." We've openly discussed more than most people expect. More detail than can reasonably be consumed in a sitting is on the New55 FILM blog, where the open discussion dates back to 2010.

I'm afraid there's not much more we can (efficiently) talk about. Thank you for your support.

-Sam

[swhiser]

Have the New55 people said which film they'll be using? I remember reading once on their blog that Efke 25, tri-x, HP5+, and others, were good candidates, but did they actually say which film?

We've stated the qualifying off-the-shelf emulsions that work or are likely to work and what the defining characteristics are. This gets decided when we go to Mobberley and to Rochester and to Berlin and to Bohemia, with money in hand, to negotiate a commitment to supply the "First Edition." Some of the design and component choices are impacted by other alternatives up-stream the assembly line, so it's a fluid situation.

Thanks for asking, Andrew.
-Sam

[jb7]

Witold-

If by 'equity' you mean something like common stock ownership in a company, neither the United States Securities and Exchange Commission nor Kickstarter rules permit offering securities there.

This is not to say that New55 Holdings, LLC, will not entertain a private round of investment at some point in the future but simply that Kickstarter is not the place for it.

Regarding the plan to manufacture New55 FILM, we're pretty explicit in the text of the Kickstarter page. Perhaps you misread or skipped over the summary statement of the budget under "Use of Proceeds." We've openly discussed more than most people expect. More detail than can reasonably be consumed in a sitting is on the New55 FILM blog, where the open discussion dates back to 2010.

I'm afraid there's not much more we can (efficiently) talk about. Thank you for your support.

-Sam

I've seen kickstarter projects succeed at the last minute through the actions of a single benefactor-
Perhaps there should be a 'final hurdle' reward, which might give something significant, such as naming rights, to anyone willing to get the project over the finish line.

One thing seems certain as a result of this exercise so far, rich people have no particular love for big film...

[Brian C. Miller]

An equity offer would have completed Kickstarter campaign a long time ago. Why isn't it there?

What exactly do you mean by "equity?" Could you please clarify that?

[Deval]

I assume he means a percentage of ownership of the company shares and/or future sales.

At the level they are looking for, they need an angel investor to finish backing them. Either that or a massive publicity push. I'm surprised as well.

[Andrew O'Neill]

It's over the 300K mark. 4 days to go!

[Jac@stafford.net]

An equity offer would have completed Kickstarter campaign a long time ago. Why isn't it there?

Is an equity offer allowed? Would an equity stake endanger Kickstart? I do not know. I raise the question to bring out the experts.

[swhiser]

Is an equity offer allowed? Would an equity stake endanger Kickstart? I do not know. I raise the question to bring out the experts.

It's not permitted by Kickstarter. See the Guidelines ...
https://www.kickstarter.com/help/guidelines

Traditional US securities law has forbidden offering shares to non-"accredited" (read "unsophisticated") investors. That seems to be evolving into a gray area and crowd-funding entities other than Kickstarter are contemplating doing Internet stock offerings. See Title III of the JOBS Act last Fall. It's not settled.

-Sam

[swhiser]

The discussion seems to be about what can get New55 FILM across the goal-line at this late point in the campaign. As planned, it's going to be the small-bidders.

Kickstarter limits on reward quantities (10 units of something) and maximum pledges ($10,000) means that only photographers interested in supporting the project can get New55 FILM across the line. That's by design and that's why we chose Kickstarter: to test the market for a professional instant 4x5 monochrome film and to transmit to participants clearly that no sugar-daddy is coming in here to save someone's dream. It's on YOU! is our message.

It's about consumers taking responsibility for their supply. It's a very different paradigm than Coka-Cola and Kodak (although we may be using Kodak sheet film).

Listen to the pdexposures Podcast #31 and you'll hear the full perspective from Bob Crowley & I being interviewed by Simon Ponder and Tony Gale ...
http://www.pdexposures.com/pdexposures-podcast-episode-31-the-new55-project/

-Sam

[Jac@stafford.net]

It's not permitted by Kickstarter. See the Guidelines ...
https://www.kickstarter.com/help/guidelines

Traditional US securities law has forbidden offering shares to non-"accredited" (read "unsophisticated") investors. That seems to be evolving into a gray area and crowd-funding entities other than Kickstarter are contemplating doing Internet stock offerings. See Title III of the JOBS Act last Fall. It's not settled.

-Sam

Thank you for the information and direction. I owe my retirement income to traditional investments so I am entirely uninformed of these new means.

For now I shall stick to the traditional.

[Brian C. Miller]

Thank you for the information and direction. I owe my retirement income to traditional investments so I am entirely uninformed of these new means.

For now I shall stick to the traditional.

Kickstarter projects are projects, not investments. While projects give a reward in lines of something to do with the project undertaken, a project could offer as a reward poetry written on clean toilet paper, with an increasing number of squares at each sponsorship level. If the backers think that's just fine for a reward, then everybody is happy.

Some projects offer a discounted product as a reward, game controllers comes to mind. The project sponsors want to gauge how many serious supporters there are for this, because the whole point is to create a sustainable assembly line. It just doesn't make sense to cobble all of this together, satisfy a few people, and then demand plummets like a meteor. Ideally, this should result in something that's sustainable.

Imagine for a moment that Bill Gates got a jones on for LF and instant film. But lo and behold, nobody else cared about instant film, which is why Fujifilm gave up on FP100C45. Big Wallet Bill would have to be constantly shelling out to keep the assembly going, for himself and a dozen or so other people. Then Bill changes hobbies to machine gunning rats at the dump, and stops supporting the assembly line. No more product.

So here Bob and Sam are trying to get to the real grass roots, where the photographers are who will use this product on a hopefully regular basis. So the project needs those grass roots, not those one or two angel investors.

So how do I plan to use New55? One or two shots before using color, like I used to do with Type 55.

[Larry Kellogg]

They need about $93k in four days. Let's make it happen.

Larry

[Frank_E]

ok I was skeptical several days ago, never thought it would happen….

well it definitely has a good chance of happening now

it the rate of addition continues over the last three days as it has over the previous three day they will reach their goal

so the skeptic (me) just signed up for a box of film….

go team go….

[Larry Kellogg]

Yeah, thanks Frank! I can't believe they're getting close. Looks like $70k to make it. Go go go!

[Andrew O'Neill]

$65K to go!

[adelorenzo]

I thought this is relevant to the discussion. An excerpt from the pdexposures podcast interview (http://www.pdexposures.com/pdexposures-podcast-episode-31-the-new55-project/) that was posted on Facebook today by Sam.

21:28 Bob:

No it's not; it's the voice of experience. You might not know that I'm a professional product development person who's spent this past three decades developing all kinds of new products in medicine – imaging catheters that measure blockages in the heart – microphones that they use for music recording, artistic materials, guitar pickups, antenna systems and a lot of other things. I have over 100 patents on all these things, and out of the, let's say, one hundred or so products that got released and that are successful, there were a thousand that didn't.

So it's always like this; there's always a risk. So being able to put the risk up front, to show everybody, before you make the investment, show everybody what's going on ... could be a new way of doing things in the future.

22:28 Sam:

I'm glad, fellas, that you get to hear Bob talk about his background. I think that's a critical piece of the puzzle here. People, backers, have seen little suggestions of it in our materials but he's been involved in some very serious inventions of his own, brought all the way to commercialization, including IVUS – Intravascular Ultrasound – the 3rd generation that is a staple in hospitals everywhere, and it saves lives. And this is something that our Bob Crowley did, himself! And so we've got the ingredients and the talent in this project to realize it.

[feppe]

Thank you for the information and direction. I owe my retirement income to traditional investments so I am entirely uninformed of these new means.

For now I shall stick to the traditional.

As mentioned before several times, KS is not an investment, nor is it a pre-order. You are backing a project which would or could not be funded by more traditional means - and resurrecting instant film is a perfect candidate.

To put a blunter point to what I'm saying: if this doesn't get funded, you won't have any instant film to shoot in your retirement, and neither will anyone else. Therefore I have put my money where my mouth is, and backed the project at a year's worth of shooting. I will continue to do so, in the hopes that I will have something to shoot in my retirement in a few decades.

[Andrew O'Neill]

Things are looking pretty good. $55K to go.

[Jim Cole]

I just doubled my original pledge and I didn't even shoot the original 55. I may have a few of the New55, though. Fingers crossed.

[cabbiinc]

To whomever pledged $3 thanks. Makes the dollar figure more interesting.

[Andrew O'Neill]

$35K to go!

[Larry Kellogg]

Amazing. Getting close!

[vdonovan]

must...stop...hitting...refresh...

[feppe]

must...stop...hitting...refresh...

No need to refresh, pledge tally and comments update live automagically on KS.

[Fred L]

Just doubled up my pledge. We need to support this project, the goal is sooo close !!!

[Frank_E]

under $20k to go, let's keep this moving….!

[Andrew O'Neill]

Less than $2K to go!!

[Kimberly Anderson]

I believe I'll do the same. A good example Jim. Thanks for the idea.


I just doubled my original pledge and I didn't even shoot the original 55. I may have a few of the New55, though. Fingers crossed.

[Andrew O'Neill]

They did it! They are over the $400K Mark! Congratulations!

[Tim Povlick]

They did it! They are over the $400K Mark! Congratulations!

Congratulations to the new55 team and the KS participants (myself included :-) ]

Tim

[Andrew O'Neill]

Congratulations to the new55 team and the KS participants (myself included :-) ]

Me too!

[Jim Cole]

Wow, what a finish!!!

[Larry Kellogg]

Yeah!

[Steve Goldstein]

I have to admit that I had serious doubts when I backed it somewhere around the $172k mark. Well done!

[Brian C. Miller]

I'm gonna up my pledge to get a t-shirt. Yeah, they're creepy, but it's still a t-shirt. 10 boxes, yes!

I'm glad this project made it. My old holder is going to have fresh film!

Dennis Manarchy's project asked for far less, and didn't make it. He wanted people to fund his camera circus, "like the big top coming to town." Bob Crowley's project is about enabling people with instant P/N film. I think the key difference is that Bob is about enabling people, and that's the big difference.

Go, Bob, go!

[adelorenzo]

New55 is now the most funded photography project on Kickstarter (https://www.kickstarter.com/discover/advanced?category_id=15&sort=most_funded).... The previous mark was about $190K.

[koh303]

New55 is now the most funded photography project on Kickstarter (https://www.kickstarter.com/discover/advanced?category_id=15&sort=most_funded).... The previous mark was about $190K.

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/597507018/pebble-e-paper-watch-for-iphone-and-android?ref=discovery

Dont mean to break the party, its great that it looks like new55 will get even more then the goal, but other projects in photography have raised 1.2M$ and more. The lomo petzval is one that comes to mind.

And now - back to partying!

[Fred L]

H.O.L.Y C.O.W !!!!!!

I knew my pledge bump would do it lol

[Matus Kalisky]

Since I do not have any 4x5" gear anymore I did not pledge, but I am very happy they made it. Could be a reason to get some sort of 4x5" P&S in the future.

Congratulations to the New55 team!

[Fred L]

didn't keep track of the backers but I wonder if there's a major photographic philanthropist we all should be thanking ?

[feppe]

didn't keep track of the backers but I wonder if there's a major photographic philanthropist we all should be thanking ?

No. Three quarters of current funds are coming from backers pledging 1000 USD or less. The whole purpose of the project was to find out if there's enough demand from the masses, instead of a few whales or angel investors who would not be very useful in the long run.

Let's see if 2000 backers will be enough to keep this going for many more rounds, convert some additional shooters, and to convince the naysayers.

[Andrew O'Neill]

Could be a reason to get some sort of 4x5" P&S in the future.

The Wanderlust!

[adelorenzo]

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/597507018/pebble-e-paper-watch-for-iphone-and-android?ref=discovery

Dont mean to break the party, its great that it looks like new55 will get even more then the goal, but other projects in photography have raised 1.2M$ and more. The lomo petzval is one that comes to mind.

And now - back to partying!

The Lomo petzval lens was in the Product Design category. As was the Pebble.

[koh303]

OMG:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/380890901852?_trksid=p2055120.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT

[Fred L]

wow, glad I have three.

[John Conway]

About a year ago I was preparing myself for the new55 film. I wanted to have some back up holders . I bought a bunch of them , the early version models that are all metal , and only mint in the box condition. The average price was about fifteen bucks. I Can't wait . I'm so happy new55 is coming.

[towolf]

convert some additional shooters, and to convince the naysayers.

And to bring the price way down.

[feppe]

And to bring the price way down.

Outside of angel investors, only way to bring the price way down is for people to buy them when the prices are up, ie. now, so that they can realize economies of scale. Chicken and egg problem, but that's the way it is.

[jkruppa]

OMG:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/380890901852?_trksid=p2055120.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT

Glad I got one for free when I bought my 4x5 a couple of years ago!

[Andrew O'Neill]

What the...! Last night the total was around $420K. This morning it reads $401K.

[Jim Cole]

What the...! Last night the total was around $420K. This morning it reads $401K.

Yeah, I noticed that, too. Are people pulling pledges?

[Brian C. Miller]

Oh, I so hope this doesn't tank!

Kicktraq currently shows $400,811 and Kickstarter shows $401,193. People have been pulling out or reducing their pledges, a drop of nearly $28,000! I guess what happened is that people saw that it was going to make it, so they reduced their pledge or pulled out entirely. I think there were three backing at the $9,000 level, and now there's just one. Evidently quite a few others have also reduced their pledge.

13 hours to go.

[StoneNYC]

Oh, I so hope this doesn't tank!

Kicktraq currently shows $400,811 and Kickstarter shows $401,193. People have been pulling out or reducing their pledges, a drop of nearly $28,000! I guess what happened is that people saw that it was going to make it, so they reduced their pledge or pulled out entirely. I think there were three backing at the $9,000 level, and now there's just one. Evidently quite a few others have also reduced their pledge.

13 hours to go.

Where's a that fat lady??

Yea I didn't know you could even pull your pledge like that.

I can see backing out if you only added a lot to help get them over the finish line... But wow, that's a lot of pull back. Let's just hope they don't go under $400,000. We wouldn't want Ken to end up being right ;)

[Andrew O'Neill]

It looks very much like people pulled their pledges... it's back up to $405K.

[Larry Kellogg]

The project is still gaining backers, which is a good thing. Let's hold the line. This is too good a development for the film community to miss by a little bit.

[Andrew O'Neill]

$417k then a couple minutes later, $416K...

[Andrew O'Neill]

.....and back down to $407,933... Apparently once the goal has been met it's funded. There must be safeguards in place to keep it from dipping below $400K. Eight hours to go...!

[Brian C. Miller]

There are no safeguards. If enough people pull out of the project and it drops below $400,000, then the project doesn't get funded. If it winds up at $399,999, then the project is dead.

[cabbiinc]

Everyone's getting a shirt right? No? Well get on it then!!!

[feppe]

There are no safeguards. If enough people pull out of the project and it drops below $400,000, then the project doesn't get funded. If it winds up at $399,999, then the project is dead.

This is incorrect. From Kickstarter TOS (https://www.kickstarter.com/terms-of-use?country=US):


Backers may increase, decrease, or cancel their pledge at any time during the fundraising campaign, except that they may not cancel or reduce their pledge if the campaign is in its final 24 hours and the cancellation or reduction would drop the campaign below its goal.

I wonder if any of the whales left are stuck because of that term. Two with 9k pledges, funding at 408k...

[Frank_E]

One can surmise that some friends of the promoters jumped in for the purpose of helping their buddies get this off the ground and then jumped out once it hit the funding level. That doesn't bother me. I jumped in (late) in order to help it jump the funding hurdle which it has, so I am happy. This has been a very high mountain for them to climb. Four times higher than the Travelwide Kickstarter (which I also backed). I am glad they reached their target. I got into the LF photography game late in life. Never shot 55 but have admired projects shot with this film (e.g. Christopher Thomas: New York Sleeps) so I am hoping I get a chance to try this type of film also. So I am now anxiously awaiting delivery of my box of film (yes I do have a 545 film holder…).

[Andrew O'Neill]

I have to agree with Frank... but that is fine by me! Whatever it takes! Four hours to go!

[Larry Kellogg]

Cool, so we're protected! I guess I can go to bed because people can't drop their pledges to below the required amount.

[Andrew O'Neill]

Less than an hour to go!

[Andrew O'Neill]

It's over!

[Vascilli]

I calculated yesterday that this campaign alone has resulted in something like over 20,000 sheets of film being preordered. I think the implications of that is what excites me the most.

[DaveS]

Exciting times

[Brian C. Miller]

And six people at the end squeaked in with $400! I wonder how many projects end like this one. My 545 has been with me for over 15 years, and now there's more film! Yes!

[Larry Kellogg]

Wonderful news. I'm amazed that we made it. Now, I have to start thinking about a project for the film. When the materials are expensive, I think you have to care more about the end result. I think that's a good thing, in many ways.

[rdenney]

So, I was in Switzerland for a couple of weeks and lost track of the campaign for its last week. I had already doubled down on my first pledge and gone as far as I could go, so I just had to hope.

We learned a lot about Kickstarter in this thread, but we already knew that it makes possible what isn't possible using conventional investment vehicles, especially with credit tight. Even if it fails, I'll know I did what I could.

I used to use Type 55 a lot--it was a way to get a good negative very easily in the days when I didn't have a darkroom. It's perfect for my current low production level--I might expose ten sheets of black and white a year and keeping a darkroom going efficiently isn't easy at that level. Even with a high unit cost, this product is still cheaper.

Now, I gotta find that clearing tank--I know it's here somewhere. The 545 is still handy, too.

Rick "looking forward to frequent progress reports, which can be posted here" Denney

[Armin Seeholzer]

You have been in Switzerland and not visited me, you are living a dangerous live:cool:

Cheers Armin

[BobCrowley]

One can surmise that some friends of the promoters jumped in for the purpose of helping their buddies get this off the ground and then jumped out once it hit the funding level. That doesn't bother me. I jumped in (late) in order to help it jump the funding hurdle which it has, so I am happy. This has been a very high mountain for them to climb. Four times higher than the Travelwide Kickstarter (which I also backed). I am glad they reached their target. I got into the LF photography game late in life. Never shot 55 but have admired projects shot with this film (e.g. Christopher Thomas: New York Sleeps) so I am hoping I get a chance to try this type of film also. So I am now anxiously awaiting delivery of my box of film (yes I do have a 545 film holder…).

I did not see that happening though I do recognize some friends in the pledges, but they are genuine 4x5 shooters. The biggies were from places unknown to us prior to the campaign. Bob Crowley

[anglophone1]

Bugger- off grid for a couple of weeks- mean to do this but didn't!
Should always do these things right away!
Bob- anyway I can still get in on this?
Have 15 boxes of old 55 but would still like some more.................
Thanks
Clive

[swhiser]

One can surmise that some friends of the promoters jumped in for the purpose of helping their buddies get this off the ground and then jumped out once it hit the funding level.

Frank,

That would have served no purpose, given the size of the goal; and we would have discouraged it if anyone would have suggested it.

It is possible to get caught-out doing that because Kickstarter blocks any pledge decreases or cancellations in the last 24 hours that would put a project under the line. Cancellations happen to every project -- don't know the average but something like 5% is normal.

-Sam Hiser

[Frank_E]

thank you for the response Sam (and Bob)

as a participant, I got your last update which talked about the fact that some payments are failing
due to things like people having changed their credit card numbers etc
will that shortfall jeopardize the project, or have those issues been mainly sorted out by now?


Frank,

That would have served no purpose, given the size of the goal; and we would have discouraged it if anyone would have suggested it.

It is possible to get caught-out doing that because Kickstarter blocks any pledge decreases or cancellations in the last 24 hours that would put a project under the line. Cancellations happen to every project -- don't know the average but something like 5% is normal.

-Sam Hiser

[John Conway]

Man , I can't wait. When the film is available I'm going to sell my Harley , buy a few refrigerator's and stuff them with new55 film. My wife is getting nervous .

[StoneNYC]

Man , I can't wait. When the film is available I'm going to sell my Harley , buy a few refrigerator's and stuff them with new55 film. My wife is getting nervous .

She likes riding the Harley doesn't she...? ;)

[John Conway]

She likes riding the Harley doesn't she...? ;)
No , she always hated it because I would be out for several days with it when I hung out with my friends . Easy Rider was our favorite movie. Things have calmed down these days. Now I pop an advil and go out for an hour. Photography is easy on the back.

[jb7]

We made the Boston Globe...

http://www.bostonglobe.com/business/2014/05/25/new-view-old-film/sBIkL0NHFCAngYlThSyVbN/story.html

[StoneNYC]

We made the Boston Globe...

http://www.bostonglobe.com/business/2014/05/25/new-view-old-film/sBIkL0NHFCAngYlThSyVbN/story.html

No example pictures in the article??? Irony...

[Andrew O'Neill]

But once Crowley began blogging about the idea of producing New55, photographers around the nation rallied to his aid.

Photographers around the nation?? I think there was international backing, too, including me!

[Fred L]

Photographers around the nation?? I think there was international backing, too, including me!

Didn't catch that and the lack of mention is rather disappointing tbh.

[jb7]

Didn't catch that and the lack of mention is rather disappointing tbh.

All news is local...
Wasn't the old 55 factory in Boston? Now a mall, or something equally local?

The readers of the Boston Globe can't be expected to think that the story is anything other than a locally successful kickstarter campaign...

[koh303]

It was (and still is) in waltham. The buildings, for the most part are still partially standing...

[StoneNYC]

I THINK this it?

116073

[Andrew O'Neill]

I wrote to the author of the article about it, but no response.

[Degroto]

Hi Guys here is an update on the New55 project:
http://new55project.blogspot.nl/2014/09/september-update.html

[Witold Grabiec]

It strikes me a bit that there seems to be no more discussion on the development of New55 project. I do know what they are saying, but has it lost interest, are there too many donators ticked off at the lack of results, or is everyone just sitting quiet as there is little to talk about? After all $400k went in and all I can really see is some image that produced a print closer to an OK colodion image than the original (and great) 55 and research that may be more applicable to bio-medical field than photographic film.

[jp]

I follow them on facebook and get email updates; they seem to have surpassed type55 in certain regards and are applying a type-a not-doing-it-halfway job to the development of a better film. Last word is their building's roof caved in from snow. I'm not ticked off.

[Witold Grabiec]

I don't know where you got the 'surpass' part over 55, the examples I see are far from even getting close to 55, perhaps I have a different perception of a "match". They have an update on recent try where headlines says "negative matches print", they they show the result which does NOT match, then deeper in the report they actually state " matches ... as closely as it does", which is admitting it does not exactly match (clearly noticeable in provided example). I call it deceptive journalism when a headline mismatches associated article.

[Gadfly_1971]

It strikes me a bit that there seems to be no more discussion on the development of New55 project. I do know what they are saying, but has it lost interest, are there too many donators ticked off at the lack of results, or is everyone just sitting quiet as there is little to talk about? After all $400k went in and all I can really see is some image that produced a print closer to an OK colodion image than the original (and great) 55 and research that may be more applicable to bio-medical field than photographic film.

Maybe because they're providing updates on their blog with relative frequency? Right now they're getting hammered by some horrible weather and have had some issues related to the building that they're in. This has caused them to fall a bit further behind than they would like.

What exactly is your expectation here? Are you a backer? If so, perhaps you might try communicating with them directly if you have questions or concerns.

[Witold Grabiec]

I am NOT a backer (and am certainly glad I'm not), but I would be a user, if this thing ever makes it to the market at a reasonable price.

[adelorenzo]

New 55 has been providing regular, detailed updates. Lots of things have been done but there are obstacles to overcome and they're going to need to raise more money. I'm glad I backed it and looking forward to being along for the rest of the ride, no matter what the outcome.

[Gadfly_1971]

I am NOT a backer (and am certainly glad I'm not), but I would be a user, if this thing ever makes it to the market at a reasonable price.

Perhaps this forum isn't the best place to be looking for information. I'd recommend that you follow their blog: http://new55project.blogspot.com/ They post regular updates in a lot more detail than what you would see here.

As an aside, I don't think the price is ever going to be reasonable once they go into full production. It really is a boutique product aimed at a very specific marketplace. I doubt that there will be many "casual" users.

[EdSawyer]

I am impressed they have gotten as far as they have, however it looks like they are going to run out of money and will need to raise more. not sure how that is going to play out.

[richardman]

I am highly amused that most of the "where are they now" questions about photo related KickStarter (e.g. New55, Wanderlust etc.) are from NON-backers. It's like they like to say, "see how much money I didn't throw away?" XD

(disclaimer: I have never kicked in money for any KS)

[Bob Mann]

I am NOT a backer (and am certainly glad I'm not), but I would be a user, if this thing ever makes it to the market at a reasonable price.

I guess that means you will never purchase this product, so why the interest other than "stir the rumor pot a little" -

[koh303]

I am impressed they have gotten as far as they have, however it looks like they are going to run out of money and will need to raise more. not sure how that is going to play out.

that sounds about right, and is indeed a good question.

[vdonovan]

As a backer, I'm fully satisfied that my investment is in good hands. They've given excellent communication and I'm truly impressed with their management of a risky and challenging project. If a new 4x5 instant film can come on the market for less than a million dollars in development costs (about what Twitter spends on sushi for its staff every year) it will be a great thing for all of photography. I'm also super-impressed that they've discovered how to make New55 without Volatile Organic Compounds (VOCs), which is indeed a big step forward on all of the old Polaroid films (including the SX-70 films, which were basically soaked in benzene, a carcinogen). This will reduce manufacturing costs (and hopefully the price), as well as reduce our environmental impact as photographers.

There are always risks to any new product development and I think Bob and co. have done an excellent job of containing them. It's amazing to me that they've stayed so close to their original timetable, despite the many unknowns in this project. I would be happy to pony up if they ask for another round of investment.

[jb7]

Well said Vince-

I too have every confidence in the commitment and expertise of the people behind the project.

Speaking from down the road in NY, and as a recent visitor to Pennsylvania, where the mercury registered -4 of your inscrutable American degrees, I can only imagine the difficulties involved in clearing up after all that snow.

Good luck to them, and I'll be happy to get my 5 sheets whenever they turn up, which I'm sure they will.

Even if they do not, anyway, it was worth investing in the only possibility of ever replicating the best 4x5 film that I've ever used.
If it turns out that the new film is different, well it has to be.

I'm only writing this because someone, without any understanding of making anything, entitled, a consumer, decided to make an attack on someone with the vision to remake a legend.

As Margaret Thatcher said about Geoffrey Howe, it's like being gummed by a sheep ...

[EdSawyer]

"This will reduce manufacturing costs (and hopefully the price),"

I'd be surprised if the VOCs or lack thereof have any affect on cost or price. If anything I'd think it would be higher since it's another constraint to work around. From an environmental standpoint, it is likely a good thing however.

[HMG]

"This will reduce manufacturing costs (and hopefully the price),"

I'd be surprised if the VOCs or lack thereof have any affect on cost or price. If anything I'd think it would be higher since it's another constraint to work around. From an environmental standpoint, it is likely a good thing however.

It's possible that using low/no VOC materials reduce manufacturing cost if VOC fumes would need to be captured, filtered, and disposed of during the manufacturing process.

[StoneNYC]

Chamonix kindly made me this fancy extension back so I am now prepared to use my 545 back should this ever come into being...

129565

[Andrew O'Neill]

Any of you backers going for the readyload film they are offering? I went to their page and it shows up as being sold out, which if true, is a good thing.

[Larry Kellogg]

I bought two boxes at around 4am EDT, when I received the link, and I'm glad to see the demand was high enough to sell out so quickly.

[EdSawyer]

yeah, but at $10 a shot, a bit on the pricey side. all for the cause, of course.

[Larry Kellogg]

It is expensive but at least we get something for supporting the cause.

[Andrew O'Neill]

I was happy to see that it sold out. I saw the link but I was too late. Hopefully they'll have more. I hope that those of you who purchased it, post your results on this forum!

[Fred L]

that's weird. Missed the initial buy but when I checked the link again last night for s&g, they had stock again so put in an order and it appeared to go through. So now it's back to sold out. Not sure why they had more stock or if it was a tech glitch. will see if I get an email saying 'sorry'

but yeah, it's not cheap but if it moves New55 forward, I'm happy. I think many would love to see this as a regular item, at a lower price obviously.

[Fred L]

hahahaha. just got an email saying One Shot was oversubscribed/sold. Have to wait till May for the next shipment.

[Larry Kellogg]

May is not so bad. I ordered within the first six minutes the Apple Watch went on sale and got a May ship date instead of an April 24th ship date.

It's nice to see demand that will help out the NEW55 project.

[Fred L]

agree Larry, May is around the corner and what I really want to see in their shop is New55. But both of these products would find a place in my world. Be curious to know if the 1SHOTS can be reloaded at home ;)

[Larry Kellogg]

I'm going to have to think hard about what to shoot with the OneShot and the NEW55 film. In some ways, it is good to use expensive material, you are forced to wrestle with whether the shot is worth it or not. 35mm is my devil may care film, 4x5 and 5x7 calls for a more studied approach.

[letchhausen]

Looks like the 1Shot is back on sale again. I've used Polaroid 4x5 but not Ready Loads, that was going the way of the dodo when I first started LF and back then the price seemed too high. Now I think the weight and hassle while traveling might have me leaning towards 'em if they were still available....but yeah, the fund raising price is tough though I realize that I'm funding the New55 which is cool....

[Andrew O'Neill]

Update #38

To all,
This week we delivered the first boxes of New55 PN to the warehouse for shipment to Kickstarter supporters.
Production must begin at a slow rate. This is where we learn how to make and use the product.
Following recommendations from supporters, we will also allocate a portion of the New55 PN builds to sell at the Shop in order to raise needed cash throughout the ramp.
Summer is here and we have a lot of work still ahead. We look forward to seeing your photographs.

[Fred L]

yup, got that earlier today and you have no idea how happy I am to see this is coming to fruition. much deep heartfelt thanks go to Bob Crowley and the New55 team for slogging through the trials and tribulations to reach this point.

[Andrew O'Neill]

Hear, hear!

[Deval]

Wow exciting news. Just to clarify is this the final product?

[Oren Grad]

Wow exciting news. Just to clarify is this the final product?

It's deliverable product. "Final" may not be quite the right word because it sounds as though the product attributes may continue to evolve:

http://new55project.blogspot.com/2015/06/on-cusp.html

[Andrew O'Neill]

And I believe they will divert some of it for their online shop for much needed funds.

[Larry Kellogg]

Incredible news! What do I shoot with this film? Any thoughts on appropriate subject matter?

[Deval]

I wonder when they say the old guys will have to look to the new guys... I wonder if this film has Lomo monochrome characteristics...

[BobCrowley]

I wonder when they say the old guys will have to look to the new guys... I wonder if this film has Lomo monochrome characteristics...

We already said that - in jest of course. But there will be new things to learn, and the product is something altogether new.

[Sal Santamaura]

...there will be new things to learn, and the product is something altogether new.Please elaborate. Specifics, rather than vague statements, would be much more helpful for anyone hoping to optimize results from an expensive, limited-quantity product. Thanks in advance.

[Fred L]

I think the first thing users of Type 55 will need to adjust is not having to decide between making a good print vs a good negative. I believe that's one unique thing about New55 is that one can get a good neg and pos from the same exposure. iirc

[Deval]

We already said that - in jest of course. But there will be new things to learn, and the product is something altogether new.
Thanks. Really excited to try the product and run with it. I know it's a catch 22 type question, but do you expect the price to come down eventually once the fundraising part passes

[Larry Kellogg]

I definitely want to hear more specifics about how we should go about using this product.

[feppe]

I definitely want to hear more specifics about how we should go about using this product.

I will be using mine for confirming lighting and exposure settings, before committing a sheet of chrome. That's how I've been using Fuji's instant film in the past as well. Some people use digital as their "polaroid" to confirm exposure, but I've found latter to be more reliable in the studio.

Although I do store them, I don't plan to ever have another use for them - other than for my grandchildren to sell for huge sums some day :P

Many artists use instant film as the end product, though. I'd say Andy Warhol is one of the most famous polaroid shooters out there. Here (http://www.papermag.com/view/gallery/533affa4beea736dd90000ef) some samples.

[EdSawyer]

"before committing a sheet of chrome"

Ironically you could shoot 5 sheets of chrome for the price of one sheet of new55...

[Andrew O'Neill]

Ironically you could shoot 5 sheets of chrome for the price of one sheet of new55...

;)

I'll just be happy to run in through my 545 holder. Probably take four of the family and dog… Maybe a selfie of me with the fifth sheet.

[Andrew O'Neill]

… and I'll wait until I get the Travelwide!

[photonsoup]

"before committing a sheet of chrome"

Ironically you could shoot 5 sheets of chrome for the price of one sheet of new55...


Ahh, but your don't know if your lighting and exposure are correct until after you develop the Chromes. And in my case that might means years!

[Larry Kellogg]

It never occurred to me that people would be using this film to check the exposure for chromes.

I've been told that the main advantage of Type55 was that the process produced a negative which was basically grainless. This shot by Annie Leibovitz:

http://pages.ebay.com/link/?nav=item.view&alt=web&id=141705460487&globalID=EBAY-US

shows the kind of tonality you can achieve with a Type 55 negative. I have seen other prints of her Type 55 work; the results are quite stunning.

I don't put much value in the instant print, as I'll be looking to produce the best possible print in the darkroom. Still, if the tonal range of the instant print matches the negative, as they claim, it will be much easier to see if I have produced a good negative.

[jp]

Psyched!136148

[Andrew O'Neill]

You got yours already?? Shoot a sheet and post it here!

[Fred L]

that was fast !

[feppe]

"before committing a sheet of chrome"

Ironically you could shoot 5 sheets of chrome for the price of one sheet of new55...

Yes, looking at per-shot basis, but we should be looking at a whole shoot. Then it's not cheaper, at least not for me.

I shoot 1-3 polaroids per prepared scene/look. When settings are dialed in, I shoot 5-10 exposures, times two (in-camera dupes). On top of that there's the money and time invested in developing incorrectly exposed chromes. Or worse yet, realizing after the fact that the entire shoot is ruined because you had flash sync issues. Instant film is the only way to ensure this doesn't happen.

[jp]

I won't have time to shoot any till tomorrow night unfortunately. Maybe tomorrow I can squeeze a photo in.

[rdenney]

I won't have time to shoot any till tomorrow night unfortunately. Maybe tomorrow I can squeeze a photo in.

Can you outline the process? Is it like old Type 55 where you had to store the negative in a sodium sulfite clearing solution for later washing? I think I still have my clearing tank somewhere.

Rick "expecting four boxes" Denney

[Larry Kellogg]

Can you outline the process? Is it like old Type 55 where you had to store the negative in a sodium sulfite clearing solution for later washing? I think I still have my clearing tank somewhere.

Rick "expecting four boxes" Denney

From previous discussions, I believe the negatives should be stored in a sodium sulfite solution until they are washed. At least, I bought one of those clearing tanks so that must have been what I read.

I'm looking forward to seeing the first shots! Studio or in the wild? Maybe you could shoot a little video for us.

[EdSawyer]

I agree with that approach, but fp100c is a lot more economical for that purpose.



Yes, looking at per-shot basis, but we should be looking at a whole shoot. Then it's not cheaper, at least not for me.

I shoot 1-3 polaroids per prepared scene/look. When settings are dialed in, I shoot 5-10 exposures, times two (in-camera dupes). On top of that there's the money and time invested in developing incorrectly exposed chromes. Or worse yet, realizing after the fact that the entire shoot is ruined because you had flash sync issues. Instant film is the only way to ensure this doesn't happen.

[jp]

https://c2.staticflickr.com/4/3906/19340051595_6486d2e72c_c.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/vt1Pxr)img208 (https://flic.kr/p/vt1Pxr) by Jason Philbrook (https://www.flickr.com/photos/13759696@N02/), on Flickr
https://c1.staticflickr.com/1/264/19152427958_4c775fc276_c.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/vbrcz9)img208n (https://flic.kr/p/vbrcz9) by Jason Philbrook (https://www.flickr.com/photos/13759696@N02/), on Flickr

It's got a nice creamy warm tint like the fomatone papers. I like that. I used a 545 for the first time tonight. I have only used fuji instant film previously with their pa45. Not sure if rollers need cleaning or if we're in for surprises with the initial batch. Still kinda amazing. Fuji fp100c45 shown for reference.
Shot with alien bees b800 flash, softbox, speed graphic, Fuji 210 fujiinar tessar.

[Deval]

https://c2.staticflickr.com/4/3906/19340051595_6486d2e72c_c.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/vt1Pxr)img208 (https://flic.kr/p/vt1Pxr) by Jason Philbrook (https://www.flickr.com/photos/13759696@N02/), on Flickr
https://c1.staticflickr.com/1/264/19152427958_4c775fc276_c.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/vbrcz9)img208n (https://flic.kr/p/vbrcz9) by Jason Philbrook (https://www.flickr.com/photos/13759696@N02/), on Flickr

It's got a nice creamy warm tint like the fomatone papers. I like that. I used a 545 for the first time tonight. I have only used fuji instant film previously with their pa45. Not sure if rollers need cleaning or if we're in for surprises with the initial batch. Still kinda amazing. Fuji fp100c45 shown for reference.
Shot with alien bees b800 flash, softbox, speed graphic, Fuji 210 fujiinar tessar.
Wonderful. How did you meter for the shots. Did you develop the negative yet?

[jp]

I have a minolta flashmeter IV to incident meter the flash. The better photo was shot at iso 200. The brighter one at iso 100. The negative is hanging up to dry in my darkroom. I put it fixer for a little bit to finish clearing excess silver from negative, then rinsed it. It looks very usable. My attempt at a video was failure. Mic was not plugged in tight and only recorded static, and white balance was bad.

[Larry Kellogg]

Are the big missing areas due to the rollers needing to be cleaned? How do the negatives look?

[jp]

I haven't shot enough to say why the chems didn't get spread to the missing areas, but I'll be cleaning up the 545 before trying more film. I can scan a negative this evening.

[Degroto]

I have shot some last weekend and with my shots the chems spread fairly evenly. I messed up in other aerea's however. That is why I am not posting pics yet. :-) I will try again tomorrow with the right fixer, temperature of the water and iso settings on 200 instead of 100. I have 2 boxes and 3 sheets left. Exciting times! The higher the iso the better the positive will look.

[Fred L]

just wondering if any Canadian members have gotten their film yet ?

[Kevin Harding]

Not I.

[Jim Cole]

Quick question. Can you freeze the New 55? I really have never used Polaroid type film, so this is a new area for me.

[Kevin Harding]

I don't believe so, because of the chemistry in the pods.

[Andrew O'Neill]

just wondering if any Canadian members have gotten their film yet ?

Not yet. I hope it doesn't get x-rayed to hell at customs…or they decide to open up everything for a good look. :(

[Degroto]

You cannot freeze New55 if your intention is to use it later ;-) You can put it in the refridgerator. If you have accidentally frozen the film the chemicals won't work however you can still use the negative in en normal filmholder and develop it the normal way or with R3 monobath. The negative size is exactly 4x5.

[Jim Cole]

Kevin and Degroto,

Thanks for responding. That's what I was thinking, but wanted to verify. Refrigerator it is.

[Andrew O'Neill]

Just saw the backers list. I'm 1,885th on the list, so it'll be a while before I gets me film, but by then all if any bugs should be eliminated. It'll be cool if I can expose this stuff through the Travelwide...

[Degroto]

Well the first film is out there. I have been playing with it yesterday. To bad that they ran into some problems with the podmachine which resulted in 3 photos with an uneven spread of the chemicals. However that has been solved now. New batches shouldn't have this. The photos do look good en the negatives even better. This is a scan of the positive:
136721
I also made a little video on how to use the holder and film and what it looks like when fixing the film. When I have my negatives back home I will show these as well.
https://youtu.be/dCYbPM0sjMo

And if you are really that bored you can also check my really boring unboxing video....they way they are supposed to be :rolleyes: :
https://youtu.be/ijfQgnuKzyo

[StoneNYC]

Well the first film is out there. I have been playing with it yesterday. To bad that they ran into some problems with the podmachine which resulted in 3 photos with an uneven spread of the chemicals. However that has been solved now. New batches shouldn't have this. The photos do look good en the negatives even better. This is a scan of the positive:
136721
I also made a little video on how to use the holder and film and what it looks like when fixing the film. When I have my negatives back home I will show these as well.
https://youtu.be/dCYbPM0sjMo

And if you are really that bored you can also check my really boring unboxing video....they way they are supposed to be :rolleyes: :
https://youtu.be/ijfQgnuKzyo

Two questions

1. Shouldn't you release the "processing" lever before removing the metal crimp at the bottom or you risk damaging the rollers?

2. Shouldn't you wash the later of chemical off first before fixing the film so you don't contaminate the fixer with developing/stop chemistry?

Thanks this is fascinating, the design looks really clean.

[jp]

2. I used my paper fixer instead of my film fixer due to chunks of paper, etc..

[Andrew O'Neill]

Degroto and John, what ISO did you use? And is it really, really, really true, one ISO for both print and negative??

[Jim Cole]

Oh oh, latest update from New 55 is not good.

[sperdynamite]

Oh oh, latest update from New 55 is not good.

What, where is this update?

[sperdynamite]

Found it: https://new55film.zendesk.com/hc/en-us/articles/205531515-Kickstarter-Update-39-Trouble-July-14-2015-

Hopefully they sort this out.

[Andrew O'Neill]

I wonder how this could be? The receiver sheets works, then it doesn't work.

[Steve Goldstein]

I wonder how this could be? The receiver sheets works, then it doesn't work.

The note says the small roll was good, parts of the big roll are not. This suggests (speculation on my part) that the rolls may not have been made at the same time, using the same lot of materials, whatever. I don't think they know yet whether it's a manufacturing difference, a raw materials difference, or an outright error in either manufacturing or design. From the sound of the post it's very early days in trying to get to the bottom of things.

[feppe]

Hope they get the issues sorted out! The team has gone to heroic lengths to keep everyone up-to-date with the progress, and in giving everything they got to the effort (including financially).


Well the first film is out there. I have been playing with it yesterday. To bad that they ran into some problems with the podmachine which resulted in 3 photos with an uneven spread of the chemicals. However that has been solved now. New batches shouldn't have this. The photos do look good en the negatives even better. This is a scan of the positive:
136721
I also made a little video on how to use the holder and film and what it looks like when fixing the film. When I have my negatives back home I will show these as well.
https://youtu.be/dCYbPM0sjMo

And if you are really that bored you can also check my really boring unboxing video....they way they are supposed to be :rolleyes: :
https://youtu.be/ijfQgnuKzyo

Dank je wel, Peter! I haven't used the holder or this type of instant film before, so this was very useful.

How fast do you need to use the fixer on the negative? Does it have to be done immediately on site, or can it be done in a batch after a day of shooting?

I take it that the positive doesn't require any further fixing or chemicals, i.e. it's essentially just like a Polaroid or other instant film?

Now that I've seen how it works I'm thinking this actually might become a new way to shoot for me. Was originally planning to use this in the studio for confirming exposure like I do with Fuji's instant film. But now I'm thinking of getting a 4x5 pinhole camera, or maybe a Gowland or similar pocket camera.

Cool stuff.

[EdSawyer]

I do hope they get it sorted out and make the manufacturer of the big roll re-run it for them free, if it was infact a manufacturing defect. If they can't, it doesn't sound like they will be able to eat that cost and continue in production. They always knew the receiver sheet was going to be the hardest part.

[feppe]

I do hope they get it sorted out and make the manufacturer of the big roll re-run it for them free, if it was infact a manufacturing defect. If they can't, it doesn't sound like they will be able to eat that cost and continue in production. They always knew the receiver sheet was going to be the hardest part.

If it's within specifications, they will end up with the bill. Even if it's not, New55 will likely have to eat up a good chunk of the cost, depending on the contract. Let's hope it's an easier fix!