Forte, Efke, J&C, Freestyle - 100, 200, 400...?

[tim atherton]

Some time ago I used some Forte and Bergger 200 and quite liked them. Since then, with the growth of J&C, loss of maintsream films etc there seems to have been a growth in avaialbitly of these films and new offerings from the manufacturers in mitteleuropa.

But I've been wading through old posts now trying to figure out who is selling what and what the heck is what film...? Is Arista.edu Forte film?... is xyz film new Forte 400 or old Forte 400... Some Forte is made by Ilford etc and so on.

Anyone have a nice simple listing of which films are which these days? (perhaps with a few value judgments thrown in - eg old Forte 400, still sold as Bogwo Film, is akin to the terribel Royal-Hungaro film of WW1 vintage. But the new 400 is great - rather like old HP5 - if you see what I mean?)

thanks

[Nick_3536]

The only claims I've heard about Ilford and Forte was that Forte was buying full rolls of HP5 and cutting it down to size for 120. I asked if that was supposed to be HP5+ but nobody seems to know. Other then that I think all Forte film is Forte.

Arista.edu is supposed to be Forte but my problem with relabeled film is what stops them from switching film next week when they get a better offer?

[David Karp]

I was told by someone who works at Freestyle that its Arista.Edu sheet films are manufactured for them by Forte and that they are the same as Fortepan.

[David A. Goldfarb]

The current Fortepan 200 and 400 are the same as Arista.EDU, ClassicPan, J&C Classic, and by all accounts Bergger. I like the 400. It's kind of like the former TXT, but has its own look. Nice stuff in ABC pyro, both for Azo and I've even been using it for negs to be enlarged with a cold light head, and the tonality is great, but I don't print that big, so if you do, you might not like the grain with ABC.

Efke and Adox are the same emulsions. I've used Efke 100, and it's really nice. J&C says Adox will be inspected to a higher standard than Efke, but newer info suggests that eventually, it will all become Adox.

Maco doesn't manufacture films, but it seems that some of their film and paper is made by Efke, and some may be Ilford, and some might be from elsewhere. Maco Expo RF graded enlarging paper is really good and responds well to amidol. I've ordered some of their metallic paper as well and will be testing it when it arrives.

If you develop in trays, handle these films carefully. They can produce beautiful results, but are not as scratch resistant as films from the major manufacturers.

[Tony Karnezis]

Tim, I've spoken with customer service representatives at Freestyle. Arista Professional 125 & 400 are simply re-packaged Ilford FP4+ and HP5+, respectively.

[David Karp]

Just to make sure that there is no confusion for people reading this post in the future:

-Arista Professional films = FP4+ and HP5+

-Arista.Edu films = Forte 200 and 400

As told to me by an employee of Freestyle.

[John Kasaian]

Tim,

I'm as confused as anybody.

In the thread you refer to, JayDeFehr comments that J and C Pro is Chinese, so is J and C Classic Fortepan and J and C Pro ???

Then there is the mysterious issue of Photo Wharehouse Ultrafine being either FP-4 or FP-4+ not to mention the theory advanced that Bergger(French) is really Forte(Czechoslovakia.)

I'm not so concerned about brands per se except that I find it would be nice to know what it is I'm shooting because they mostly are packaged differently and I like to try new emulsions without committing to a 50 $heet box if at all possible.

At least I know Kodak Tri-X comes from a spankin' new factory in Rochester(or Canada? Brazil? Australia?France?) Has anyone actually seen this place?

In another thread, now Rollei has annouced a B+W film at Photokina, developed(ha-ha) or made by MACO(but we're told MACO dosen't manufacture its own film, so who? Where does it come from?)

BTW, just what the heck is "Lucky" film, anyway?

(signed) Confused and Bewildered in Fresno

[Dave Moeller]

Lucky is a large film manufacturer in China. Their home page is http://www.luckyfilm.cn .

J&C say, in posts on APUG, that J&C Pro100 is manufactured by Lucky but that it is not Lucky's standard B&W film. The recommended development times for Lucky B&W and J&C Pro100 would seem to bear this out.

I've shot some J&C Pro100 in 120 and 4x5. It's a nice film, with good grain and tonality. I haven't done any formal testing yet, but I think it's one heck of a deal given the price and the quality of the images I got just goofing around. I plan on ordering some 8x10 soon to try out for contact printing.

[Nature Photo]

John:
Forte is actually Hungarian, not Czech.

[Ray Denon]

Freestyle Arista Ultra Edu 120 - 100 has nice tones, fine grain and is sharp. There are defects in the emulsion, tiny black spots from silver nitrate that didn't quite disolve into the emulsion and ends up over-developed. The price is right and a very nice film. The prints will need to be spotted. You get what you pay for. 4x5 100 sheet box is $29.00. 35mm 100 ft roll $17.99

[Rolleijoe]

Of course, I'm sure eyeryone is aware by now that it has all changed.

J&C "anything" is Forte
Bergger is Forte
Old Arista.EDU is Forte (stopped being Ilford years ago)
Current Arista.EDU is Foma

Hope this clears everything up.

[tim atherton]

Of course, I'm sure eyeryone is aware by now that it has all changed.

J&C "anything" is Forte
Bergger is Forte
Old Arista.EDU is Forte (stopped being Ilford years ago)
Current Arista.EDU is Foma

Hope this clears everything up.

wow - I started this thread over two years ago...

and Adox is Efke - correct?

[Capocheny]

Tim,

A two year old thread still generating a lot of questions... perhaps, this may be a good time for View Camera Magazine to do an article clarifying all the above questions and putting all the information into one, simple, easy to read chart. :)

Steve?

Cheers

[Jay DeFehr]

Arista Pro= Ilford

Arista Edu = Forte

Arista Edu Ultra = Foma

Arista II = Agfa

Jay

[Ted Harris]

View Camera is publishing an updated film table that is (or should I now say was) current as of the beginning of this month. There is one correction to the table that will also be posted on the website. As for who is making which films for which private suppliers (e.g. J&C, PhotoWarehouse, Silverprint, etc.) much of what you here is puire speculation, some of it is right and some of it is wrong, even if it comes from employees it is unlikely that many of them really know. Beyond that the few who do know are not in a position to post or publish such information. OTOH, all you need to do is look at some film charts and it is not terribly difficult to make some educated guesses :D:D.

[Michael Graves]

Just to make sure that there is no confusion for people reading this post in the future:

-Arista Professional films = FP4+ and HP5+

-Arista.Edu films = Forte 200 and 400

As told to me by an employee of Freestyle.

Don't forget the Arista EDU Ultra, which is Foma, according to Freestyle's reps. It has a strange looking base, but it prnts nicely.

[davidb]

The current Freestyle catalog say that Arista II is made in England.

[Andrew O'Neill]

Arista Pro= Ilford

Which Ilford? I know a few years back the box of Arista 400 I had was actually HP5.

[Nick_3536]

The current Freestyle catalog say that Arista II is made in England.


That's only the paper isn't it? Kentmere

[Jim Chinn]

A lot of availability depends on format. When you get into ULF sizes we are down to Efke and Ilford as the only mfgs that cut film in ULF sizes. I know that Kodak did a special run of TMY last year for ULF sizes, but with all the changes at Kodak, especially the recent announcement of the laying off of several hundred people at their film facilities I won't count on them untill it actually happens.

[David Karp]

The old, no longer available, Arista Professional was Ilford.

Arista II film is (was) Agfa.

The paper is Kentmere, from England.

[Herb Cunningham]

Having fallen into the (self made) trap of tying a lot of films, I have reached a conclusion:

Have two suppliers, and they need to be first tier. One to use most of the time, the other for backup. The savings buying cheap second and third tier suppliers is not worth the time.

When you shoot something in your back yard or studio, cheap is ok. when it is some distance, what is the cost of repeating the shot when you get banding or spots due to poor quality?

The idea of two suppliers is in case one goes out of business, you at least know how to develop the backup, having worked with it for just such an event.

[John Kasaian]

Having fallen into the (self made) trap of tying a lot of films, I have reached a conclusion:

Have two suppliers, and they need to be first tier. One to use most of the time, the other for backup. The savings buying cheap second and third tier suppliers is not worth the time.

When you shoot something in your back yard or studio, cheap is ok. when it is some distance, what is the cost of repeating the shot when you get banding or spots due to poor quality?

The idea of two suppliers is in case one goes out of business, you at least know how to develop the backup, having worked with it for just such an event.


My film preferences are all over the place---Kodak, Ilford, Efka and FOMA/Arista for film, Ilford, Kentmere and FOMA for paper. I used to think this was too much of a distraction----while I'd prefer one film, one paper (heck, make that one lens) I've come to appreciate the nuances of different materials. But they are after all, only nuances. With the volitility of the market, having a familiarity with a few different films and papers is a good thing---but not of course, if you're just learning---since if one manufacturer goes 'out to lunch' I've got two of three alternatives I'd be perfectly happy with. This is the fall-out from Ilford's reorganization coming hard on the heels of Kodak's massive downscaling of it's traditional photo offerings and its why I like outfits like J and C and Freestyle. It's also a good reason to have room in the freezer between the succotash, the albacore, and the eskimo pies (alas, if only my freezer had enough room to stockpile 12x20 film and 20x24 paper!)

[Colin Robertson]

The very finest, most beautiful B&W paper I ever used was Kodak Royal Bromesko. God, I wish they still made it. Deep, rich, smooth, creamy . . BUT, they dont. Last time I could buy it in UK was 1983. What I CAN buy is Ilford.
Right now, in my fridge, I have 35mm HP5, 120 roll PanF, and 5x4 Fp4. In my darkroom is FB multigrade and all the chemistry I need. Ilford want to sell me film, paper, chemistry, toner, wash-aid. . . just how many hints do some folks need?

[theBDT]

Does anyone have good info on the reciprocity characteristics of Foma/Arista EDU Ultra 100? I have the manufacturer's rather unhelpful table listing correction factors for 1, 10, and 100 seconds, but am at a loss as to how I should interpolate values between 1 and 10 or 10 and 100.

I'm interested because I'm thinking of using the EDU Ultra 100 sheet film as my primary LF film next semester...

[Jan Pedersen]

Foma 100/Arista EDU is probably the worst film you can choose if you are going to make long exposures >1 Sec. I don't have the numbers because i would not use that film for long exposures. The poor reciprocity characteristics are well now among the Forum members but maybe someone will have the compensation factors.

[theBDT]

Foma 100/Arista EDU is probably the worst film you can choose if you are going to make long exposures >1 Sec.

So, no one ever uses it for macro and/or still-life work? I'm going to be shooting flowers, and similar still-lifes. My lighting is bright (studio lit), but the bellows extension factor often nudges the original (pre-reciprocity corrected) exposure time into 40 seconds, 2+ minutes, or (occasionally) more.

I suppose I could open up the aperture, but I've found f/45 leaves me a lot of wiggle room, DoF-wise... I'd hate to go below f/32...

[Jan Pedersen]

If you have access to APUG, here's a link that might interest you.
http://www.apug.org/forums/forum37/49341-fomapan-reciprocity-failure.html

A 40 second measured exposure will when reciprocity compensated give you enough time to take a nap :)

[Gary L. Quay]

I've shot Foma (Arista) 100 extensively at night, and I've had some good luck with it as long as I shoot it at a wide aperture. I did an available light still life in my livingroom once, though, at F45, and the corrected exposure was 56 minutes.

Here's one of the night shots:
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3360/3636241123_0022e87080.jpg
It is capable of good results in low light situations if you are willing to wait. I printed this at 16x20 last week, and it was crystal clear. My scan doesn't do it justice.

--Gary

[kev curry]

Does anyone have good info on the reciprocity characteristics of Foma/Arista EDU Ultra 100? I have the manufacturer's rather unhelpful table listing correction factors for 1, 10, and 100 seconds, but am at a loss as to how I should interpolate values between 1 and 10 or 10 and 100.

I'm interested because I'm thinking of using the EDU Ultra 100 sheet film as my primary LF film next semester...

For Exposures between 1 sec and 10 sec X by 2. e.g A measured 5 sec expo is 2 X 5=10sec
For Exposures between 10 sec and 100 sec X by 8 e.g A measured 50sec expo is 8 X 50=400sec
For Exposures over 100 sec X 16... then sit back, pour a strong coffee and open a good book;-)

http://www.foma.cz/Upload/foma/prilohy/F_pan_100_en.pdf

[eddie]

i used and love arista.edu.ultra100. i used it for 100s and 100s of sheets of 4x5 for my pinhole camera. i finally got tired of waiting on the reciprocity and switched to tmax....then i stopped using my pinhole camera. i still use foma100.

the best thing i could suggest to you is use the pinhole designer (http://www.pinhole.cz/en/pinholedesigner/) calculator. plug in foma100 and it will figure your reciprocity. it is very very close. when in doubt give it more.

it is bad......just like the above poster said.

eddie

[theBDT]

I appreciate the info. I think I will end up using Efke. It's more expensive, but still quite reasonable. Also, I have worked with it before in 35 mm. I was even able to find a comprehensive reciprocity table for it! :)