Off brand Apo Rodagon N lenses, still made by Rodenstock?

[jose angel]

Hi, days ago I was asking here about the convenience of buying either an Apo Rodagon D or N version (http://www.largeformatphotography.info/forum/showthread.php?111536-Apo-Rodagon-D-75-4-as-an-enlarging-lens). After that, I immediately ordered a brand new Apo Rodagon N 80/4, and not without some doubts (first time), to Fotoimpex Berlin.

I used to buy my Rodenstock lenses (brand new, quiet a few) to B&H or Badger Graphics; with the current taxes and shipping costs, buying overseas is a pain, so I decided to give a try buying EC (I`m located in Europe, things are a bit different here, but the item is supposed to be made in the EC!).

Days later I`m receiving a lens, which at a first sight looks identical to the make of my 50 and 105 Apo Rodagon N (the 150 is a bit different), into the typical nice Rodestock plastic bubble… but to my surprise, with a different "generic" cap, with a somewhat "cheap looking" engravings, no box, no warranty card… and without a trace of the word “Rodenstock” on it, nor in the stickers or into the bill! There is an "Apo Rodagon N - f=80mm - 1:4" engraving (actually, painting) over the lens barrel, as well as the serial number.

Anyway, the lens looks to be a high quality one, as said the finish, feel and controls are identical to my Apo Rodagon N 50 and 105. Cannot say about the optics.

I re-checked the web site of the online shop and… surprise! There is a section for the “Rodenstock” products, where the “Apo Rodagon N” lenses are offered (http://www.fotoimpex.de/shopen/darkroom/enlarging-lenses/), but with no “Rodenstock” word over the title. In the description they mention “Rodenstock” and "Rodagon" (http://www.fotoimpex.de/shopen/darkroom/lens-apo-rodagon-n-4080mm.html). The product photo is “Rodenstock style”, like the ones on the Rodenstock brochures, and the price is right for such quality lens.

So, I`d like to know if current brand new Rodenstock Apo Rodagon N (8 element) lenses are really this ones, and if they are "Rodenstock" made or not. Are you experiencing the same in the US?

I have sent an email to the seller, no answer right now. As far as I know, he is reputable and have a physical shop in Berlin.

I have checked that the registration name “Apo Rodagon” is now free (http://www.trademarkia.com/aporodagon-72280622.html) (it is expired) (!), so I wonder if someone could make their "own business” using this reputable lens line name, or if Rodenstock (Linus?, Qioptic?) knows this, or are part of this, or whatever...

Oh my, this is really tiring. I have just returned from an ebay scam with a "new looking, perfect, unused" 80mm enlarger lens -plenty of fungus- (thankfully with a Paypal pay back -after three months of emailing-), and now this...

[Daniel Stone]

Contact Bob Salomon, he's the HP Marketing rep for the USA. He might be able to lend a hand with your query.
That's if he doesn't find this thread first, and reply first-hand.

-Dan

[jose angel]

Thanks Dan, I know Bob. I`ll wait to see if he`s around here.

[Rollinhofuji]

Rodenstock should know it - I would contact them directly, or wait for Fotoimpex' reply. They have quite a good reputation in Germany...

[Jim Noel]

It sounds like a rip-off to me. DO as others have indicated and contact Rodenstock or Bob Salomon. They can't help get your money back, but they can tell you if the lens is what you paid for.

[EdSawyer]

Seems like a way too small market to be making fake apo rodagon Ns. I mean, who buys those new anyway (other than you) ? ;-) I bought mine used...

Also, just as an FYI, the only 8-element apo rodagon N was the 45, the rest are 7-element.

-Ed

[jose angel]

I think that if it were an "easy fake", they simply should have made it without removing the name "Rodenstock"... if so, there will more of a "problem free" rip-off, as the lens would have been then indistinguishable from the "real" one (I have used about 8 enlarging Rodenstocks since early seventies, -amongst others-, so believe me I know how good they are made). And the seller looks to be a reputable one, so my guess is that there is something here...

[Bob Salomon]

I have answered this several times over the past few years.
When Rodenstock Precision Optical was sold the new owners had the right to use the Rodenstock logo for a period of time without having to pay a fee for the use of the Trademarked Rodenstock name.

Once that period of time was up the new owners stopped putting the Rodenstock name on caps, boxes (except for taking lens boxes), etc. and used plain caps and boxes with the model name and the new owners name.

So you received what is the current packaging and labeling of the lens.

Oh yes, Rodenstock has not been the manufacturer of the lenses since Rodenstock sold the division to Linos. Although Linos did continue to manufacture the lenses for a while at the factory in Regen where they had been made. Today the current owners make the lenses in Germany.

"Josef Rodenstock founded the company 1877 with the first fine-mechanical workshop in Wuerzburg, Germany. Nobody could suspect at that time that he should become the founder of a world well-known optical company.

Already 1891 worked 120 employees for the company. They produced besides eyglasses and accessories, bonoculars and -pipes, microscopes, magnifying glasses etc. also numerous cameras and photo lenses.

1899 started the production in the new built factory in Regen, Germany. 1904 established the company additionally a glasswork for raw glasses. 1905 entered Alexander, the son of Josef Rodenstock into the company. After the expansion in Regen, Germany Rodenstock developed also the Munich factory with head office. The company expanded over the years continously and had up to the death of Alexander Rodenstock (1953) 2100 employees.

In spring 1940 entered Rolf, the son of Alexander Rodenstock officially into the company. Rodenstock became one of the most important optics supplier of the German camera industry. 1960 produced Rodenstock 300 000 lenses in the year, in 1959 the four millionth lens was produced since the end of the war. From 1983 on Rolf Rodenstock led the company together with its son Randolf. After Rolf Rodenstock had led the company 37 years long, the responsibility for the company passed to its son. In 1995 the whole Rodenstock Precision Optics were separated from the company and integrated into the new founded Rodenstock Technology Holding.

In the end of the 1990th Randolf Rodenstock laid the focus on the glasses business and in the year 2000 the Göttinger company LINOS, a world-wide active manufacturer of ambitous optical systems, took over the complete Rodenstock Precision Optics as well as the Rodenstock Precision Optics, USA. Thus the Rodenstock Precision Optocs became an enterprise of the LINOS AG.

To October 1, 2009 the precision optics of LINOS relocated the company to Feldkirchen near Munich and drew into a complete new, independent building with modern manufacturing levels.

LINOS found a new partner with the Qioptiq group (existing since 2005), an organization of worldwide optics companies with locations in Europe, Asia and the USA. With the integration of LINOS into Qioptiq from 1 July 2010 Rodenstock Photo Optics became a brand of Qioptiq."

[jose angel]

Thank you very much, Bob. Please, just a couple more questions to have it crystal clear, I think it is what users should care about (there is zero info about it on the web!):

Do you know if this current, "no-name", Apo Rodagon N named lenses are made under the same "old" Rodenstock "standards" (design, quality control, etc...)?

Do you know if all Apo Rodagon N lenses ("Rodenstock" branded or not) enjoy the same optical design/quality, or came from the very same factory?

[Bob Salomon]

"
Thank you very much, Bob. Just a couple more question to have it crystal clear (there is zero info about it on the web!):

Do you know if this current, "no-name", Apo Rodagon N named lenses are made under the same "old" Rodenstock "standards" (design, quality control, etc...)? (No cutback, I mean)."

They are probably better then the ones prior to the sale of Rodenstock Precision Optical.

"Do the "Apo Rodagon N" lenses sold in the US have the name "Rodenstock" engraved on it? Do they come from the very same factory?"

None of the current Rodenstock enlarging lenses have the Name Rodenstock on the lens, the cap or the packaging. This also includes the duplicating lenses, the Apo Rodagon-D series.

[jose angel]

One day we`ll have to go to NJ (?) to pay you a drink... Bob, thanks a lot :)

[Amedeus]

Just adding a tidbit to Bob's story with the latest event in the history of Rodenstock.

Qioptiq was acquired by Excelitas Technologies on September 30th, 2013. The name of the company is not changing other than they are now an "Excelitas Technologies Company"




LINOS found a new partner with the Qioptiq group (existing since 2005), an organization of worldwide optics companies with locations in Europe, Asia and the USA. With the integration of LINOS into Qioptiq from 1 July 2010 Rodenstock Photo Optics became a brand of Qioptiq."