PDA

View Full Version : should i buy a cambo wds as my 1st LF camera?



Nerv
9-Mar-2014, 22:54
I've been looking at a few on e-bay and the price on some are very tempting but most come with just the body(makes me think parts are hard to find). I have also looked into the combo WRS but I still want to shoot film and I don't think the combo WRS can. Can anyone suggest other cameras similar? Cheers

Regards Shane.

Rollinhofuji
10-Mar-2014, 02:51
Hi Shane,

the WDS/WRS seems to be a wide-angle camera strictly designed for digital medium-format backs. It is not a complete LF camera and would imho not be a good choice, if you want to shoot 4x5 film.
What are your demands? What will you be shooting, what kind of lenses do you prefer (wide-angle, normal, long)? Do you want to shoot film exclusively, or also use a digiback?

djdister
10-Mar-2014, 04:42
As Rollinhofuji noted, the best answer to your question is NO. The Cambo WDS is not large format, is very specialized for architectural photography, is not intended for film, and as if that wasn't reason enough to stay away, it is a very expensive kit. The description from the Cambo page should give you a good idea (and I've inserted some hints):

"Cambo's Wide DS Digital series is the ideal photographic tool for the demanding architectural photographer. The set has been designed for digital photography with high-end digital backs ($$$$) and features Schneider's latest Digitar lenses ($$$) with short focal lengths for optimum image quality, as well as a choice from Rodenstock's Digaron series($$$)"

Rollinhofuji
10-Mar-2014, 04:56
Great hints, Dan :D

Nerv
10-Mar-2014, 05:24
I shoot landscapes and some street photography. I like WDS because it can take a 4x5 sheet film, as well as the opportunity to upgrade to digital later if needed. seems like a very portable camera as I don't see my self using a try pod for my street photography. My budget is around 3-4k. Im just very new to largeformat and are open to suggestions. Cheers

djdister
10-Mar-2014, 05:32
The Cambo WDS and WRS are desiged as Architecture cameras first and foremost. I would suggest looking into the Chamonix SABER or look through the LF Forum threads for discussions about hand held 4x5 cameras, like this one:

http://www.largeformatphotography.info/forum/showthread.php?111761-Which-4x5-camera-for-handheld-work-Super-vs-Speed-Graphic-vs-Busch-Pressman

Rollinhofuji
10-Mar-2014, 05:51
Well, LF without a tripod is possible, and might make sense in some niches. Street would be one, Landscape rather not. For sure the WDS would NOT make sense for this application. You would need a viewfinder and rangefinder for framing and focusing, if you want to shoot handheld. I suggest to go through the articles here http://www.largeformatphotography.info/ first before geeting hooked up by a specific camera...

Nerv
10-Mar-2014, 06:35
Couldn't find much in the articles but I have looked into the Cambo Wide 580. Seems perfect as i only need tilt and shift. http://www.paul-armitage.com/CamboWide.html they seem like they are getting hard to find.

pasiasty
10-Mar-2014, 06:42
I shoot landscapes and some street photography. I like WDS because it can take a 4x5 sheet film, as well as the opportunity to upgrade to digital later if needed. seems like a very portable camera as I don't see my self using a try pod for my street photography. My budget is around 3-4k. Im just very new to largeformat and are open to suggestions. Cheers
You probably have too big budget (assuming it's in US$) :) If, for any reason, you want to take some pictures with a hand-held LF camera, consider a press one with a good rangefinder. This, with a pair of suitable lenses should cost about 1k. And be prepared that your street pictures might be, at least for the beginning, somehow inferior to those taken with a more suitable tool (a small/medium format rangefinder, a TLR or so). Honestly, I don't see a much purpose of hand-held LF cameras (unless you David Burnett) - nor market does, press cameras LF were obsoleted about half a century ago, while field and monorail cameras are still available new.

For remaining money you may get a field camera for landscape - they are not designed to be hand-held, but provides you more flexibility in therms of extension, movements and range of lenses you can use with. Depending on format, brand, quality and chance, you may spend from 500 up to 12k for a camera, and from 500 up to unlimited for a set of lenses.

Rollinhofuji
10-Mar-2014, 08:01
Nerv, if you insist on those strange Cambo cameras, go for them. But be aware that the choice of lenses would be extremely limited (to wide angle lenses), which need super-expensive helical focusing (totally uncommon for LF lenses, for good reason).
Anyway, this one is still not suitable for handheld shooting since it lacks a rangefinder. Focusing on the ground glass and then inserting a film holder HANDHELD is simply not possible, at least if you want the things to be in focus you focused on.

By the way, I do not think that this camera provides reasonable tilt (if any).

hoffner
10-Mar-2014, 08:37
Shane, don't limit yourself just to reading opinions of people who don't have the camera, however right they might be. Find more info about Cambo Wide cameras in the archive. Other cameras similar to Cambo wide are Arca Swiss R-line series, though more expensive.

hoffner
10-Mar-2014, 08:42
And to water your mouth even more, look at Fotoman 45SPS camera too.

Rollinhofuji
10-Mar-2014, 08:43
:-)

djdister
10-Mar-2014, 09:17
If you have not shot with any of the aforementioned cameras, the best thing for you to do is to rent some of the likely ones first, before investing thousands of dollars in a particular line of gear. You will discover many individual differences and preferences between field and view cameras, and the special-purpose large format shooters...

EdSawyer
10-Mar-2014, 09:23
The cambo wide is a great camera for what it's designed for. It's not a general purpose camera, but for say street shooting with a wide-angle lens (90mm or wider) it's close to ideal. A rangefinder would be useful but even zone-focusing with the helical and hyperfocal distances, it should work fine. What it doesn't offer is much in the way of movements other than shift. But if you can live with that, it's a good piece of gear. I think a pacemaker speed or crown graphic is a better all-around first camera, or maybe even better, a Meridian 45.

Nerv
11-Mar-2014, 04:00
I have looked into the field cameras like the Toyo Field 45A. I just don't like the how big the camera actually is and if on the street set up time would be a problem. I've been reading a bit about the cambo wide 580 and I don't mind focusing then putting in the slide. Seems like a faster camera then the Toyo 45A, they say you can get around 10mm of shift both ways with the 58mm XL. I just like how compact the camera is (flat). Now I've found a good Cambo wide WDS with the ground glass so all I need would be a lens I'm sure the camera can take the cheaper range of lens like the Schneider Suger Angulon XL range. I've also looked into Fotoman 45SPS and they have nothing on a cambo 580, but they have a wider and cheaper range of lens. I am very tempted on a Toyo Field I just don't think they will shoot as wide as I want, I also like the function that I can slide a 6x12 holder on the back of the cambo's. Thanks for the help really enjoying the feed back.

Regards Shane.

Rollinhofuji
11-Mar-2014, 04:15
The SA 5,6/58XL allows 9mm rise/fall (vertical, 4x5" in landscape orientation) and 8mm shift (horizontal). That's not much, less than 1/10th of the short side (4"=10.16cm). Keep in mind that 58mm is equivalent to a 16mm lens in 35mm ("full frame"). Using rise/fall or shift handheld doesn't make much sense imho, so you could probably live with that. Rise and fall are especially useful with wide lenses, to avoid converging verticals - IF you have the camera back precisely vertical, not easy to achieve handheld.
But any kind of 4x5 monorail camera with wide angle bellows can easily achieve that, and give you far more flexibility, being much cheaper. Same for several field cameras.

pasiasty
11-Mar-2014, 04:30
I have looked into the field cameras like the Toyo Field 45A. I just don't like the how big the camera actually is and if on the street set up time would be a problem.
Toyo Field camera is a field camera, surprisingly :) Ansel Adams-like landscapes. They, landscapes, (usually) don't run away. If so, you'd come another day...

It's not an action camera. A press camera is, up to a point.


I've been reading a bit about the cambo wide 580 and I don't mind focusing then putting in the slide. Seems like a faster camera then the Toyo 45A, they say you can get around 10mm of shift both ways with the 58mm XL. I just like how compact the camera is (flat). Now I've found a good Cambo wide WDS with the ground glass so all I need would be a lens I'm sure the camera can take the cheaper range of lens like the Schneider Suger Angulon XL range. I've also looked into Fotoman 45SPS and they have nothing on a cambo 580, but they have a wider and cheaper range of lens. I am very tempted on a Toyo Field I just don't think they will shoot as wide as I want, I also like the function that I can slide a 6x12 holder on the back of the cambo's. Thanks for the help really enjoying the feed back.
Wide-angle cameras are quite specific tools. Though not originally designed for action photography, you can use them for this purpose thanks to relatively large DOF using a UWA lens set to f/16. But you must get very close to the action. Most street photographers use(d) standard to moderate long lenses, however some even like fish-eyes.

All the above said - there is no rule forbidding you for using a camera for it wasn't designed, yet it may be not very convenient. And if you catch a good deal for a second-hand WA camera, there is a chance you'll be able to sell it for similar price if it doesn't fit.

Rollinhofuji
11-Mar-2014, 04:47
(...) And if you catch a good deal for a second-hand WA camera, there is a chance you'll be able to sell it for similar price if it doesn't fit.

That's true - you can always go that way.

Nerv
11-Mar-2014, 04:53
The SA 5,6/58XL allows 9mm rise/fall (vertical, 4x5" in landscape orientation) and 8mm shift (horizontal). That's not much, less than 1/10th of the short side (4"=10.16cm). Keep in mind that 58mm is equivalent to a 16mm lens in 35mm ("full frame"). Using rise/fall or shift handheld doesn't make much sense imho, so you could probably live with that. Rise and fall are especially useful with wide lenses, to avoid converging verticals - IF you have the camera back precisely vertical, not easy to achieve handheld.
But any kind of 4x5 monorail camera with wide angle bellows can easily achieve that, and give you far more flexibility, being much cheaper. Same for several field cameras.

Yes you are correct, but the Cambo Wide 580 has a selection of lens 58mm 90mm and the 150mm version. Haven't seen any 150mm for sale though so might be hard. its just reading this review got me hooked on the Cambo's :) http://www.paul-armitage.com/CamboWide.html

Rollinhofuji
11-Mar-2014, 04:58
OK, go for it :-) Especially the section "in use" describes quite well what it means to work with such a camera.

Nerv
11-Mar-2014, 06:10
OK, go for it :-) Especially the section "in use" describes quite well what it means to work with such a camera.

I'm just seeing if there are better options. The temptation to buy a toyo 45 camera is still there

Rollinhofuji
11-Mar-2014, 06:20
Yes, the Toyos are really nice - you know the different models? http://www.toyoview.com/ProductInfo/ProductInfo.html
You might also consider Chamonix: http://www.chamonixviewcamera.com/ They are beautiful and very light. Due to their universal bellows, they should be capable of using extreme wide angle lenses while still allowing some movements. The real benefit of the Toyo, Chamonix or other field cameras would be the better availability of lenses (more and cheaper). Both should fit easily in your budget even when purchased new.
A Wista RF might also be interesting, since it features a built-in rangefinder: http://www.wista.co.jp/e_wista/e_show/e_camera/e_camera.htm (Model 4501)
Wista and Toyo are said to be very sturdy and robust.
But, all of them are not perfect for handheld shooting.

hoffner
11-Mar-2014, 06:30
I'm just seeing if there are better options. The temptation to buy a toyo 45 camera is still there

In such a case I would not discard Silvestri cameras. Go for the best (if you don't want to have the top Arca Swiss R-line beauty).

Rollinhofuji
11-Mar-2014, 07:37
Silvestri and Arca are amazing...but Arca should easily be over the budget indicated above. Anyway, they offer a fantastic viewfinder solution which also works with shift/rise. I think the camera even provides tilt.
Another option (quite affordable) might be Walker's Titan XL: http://www.walkercameras.com/XL_4x5.html

angusparker
11-Mar-2014, 16:31
I've got a Fotoman 45sps with a Fujinon 125mm 5.6 that I would be willing to part with. It has a viewfinder. But I would agree with most of the people here that a Chamonix 45n2 would be a better bet.

DennisD
11-Mar-2014, 18:14
Shane,
I own a cambo wide DS With a 4x5 back. It is a beautifully made precision camera, but not necessarily a good choice as a 1st LF camera.

This camera is designed for wide angle and, more specifically, architectural photography. It would be unusual to use a lens longer than 90 mm. Typically, the camera is used with lenses in the 30 to 70-ish mm range. I.e. Lenses that do not ideally suit the standard field or view camera because those cameras have limited bellows flexibility.

As a LF camera, the WDS does not have typical view camera movements except for front rise and shift. No back movements and no front swing or tilt. Focusing is often done by depth of field charts (calculation and stopping down the lens appropriately.). Although there is a ground glass, focusing is somewhat difficult. Oftentimes photographers use an optional viewfinder to frame the photo and then calculate focus.

Also be aware that most WA lenses for this camera will require (or benefit from) a center filter for a more even image rendition. I.e. to minimize falloff characteristic of the wider WA lenses.

Unless you are a devoted and specialist WA photographer, you will be missing out on many pleasures of learning about LF view camera photography. While perfect for its intended purpose, the wide angle camera has many limitations with respect to general LF work and in comparison to regular view cameras.

If you do buy such a camera, only purchase it with your preferred lens. You will likely get the best deal that way. Lenses bought separately may be expensive and hard to find. Further, you really need to buy lenses specifically outfitted for the camera with the proper lensboard and helical focus. Buying these parts piecemeal is impractical at best. Purchase only lens and lensboard combos put together by the manufacturer - not something cobbled together by "someone".

Best if you rented or borrowed a camera for trial before committing. If you are serious about WA photography, but also wanted a fine view camera, you should consider something like a used Sinar Norma which, with its optional bellows types, (bag bellows and standard accordion style), provides great flexibility and best of both worlds. Also greater lens choices and flexibility.

Good luck in your decision.

Nerv
11-Mar-2014, 21:52
I cant afford to buy a new Walker's Titan XL but they do sound amazing. I think I will be getting the cheaper option to start off in large format and that will be the Toyo 45a now just need to find a good deal. This does seem tempting http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=171265262389&ssPageName=ADME:X:RTQ:US:1123