Zone VI, Shen Hao, Tachihara, Chamonix, Oh Brother!

[Jmarmck]

Ok, I have been digging on these cameras for the last two days. I have managed to find at least one of each that are with in the price of what I am willing for fork out. BUT, I have no idea which. I read good and bad about all of them. I lean one way then another. I just don't have the knowledge to make a decision. I like the Shen Hoa TZ 45 for its movements on the front and back and the shiny stuff is nice. I like the idea of the carbon fiber on the Chamonix but am not sure about the durability. It looks great tho! Order time is a detraction. I also have heard about headaches with the front standard when opening. Zone VI Wista, I really like the looks of these but am not sure about the movements. I read someting about them being stiff and not having full movement on the back. The Tach, well they are pricey. Ken Rockwell is high on them. But that does not make the choice any easier.

None of them say anything about closing with the lens still attached.

I am not trying to start a fight here. I would just like to know what you all like and dislike about the ones you are familiar with.

Thanks

Marty

[David Schaller]

I'm not sure about this, but if I were buying new, I'd probably go for the Shen Hoa. I have had the Tachihara, and while it's light, it was a bit too light for me. I have the Wisner 4x5, and I would rather have a bit more solidity than the lightest camera. So that might translate to the Zone VI, but many people here have been happy with the Shen Hoa.
Dave

[Kevin J. Kolosky]

I have owned and used two Zone VI cameras. They are a good camera. But I like my Sinar P2 alot better even if its heavier, and if I were going to buy a lightweight "field" camera today I'd get a sinar F2. They are readily available and they can be gotten cheap, and you will have all of the movements you ever wanted as well as the ability to use real long lenses later on if you decide you want to do that.

[Jmarmck]

Kevin, I already have a Horsemen 450 and a Calumet CC-401 which I almost never use. That Horseman weighs as much as a horse too. I was hoping for a field camera what would be less daunting when it comes to traveling and setup. I do a lot of nighttime work so easy setup is necessary, particularly when I don't know what I am doing. I am going on the assumption that the field camera will be easier. As for too light, I will just attach some ballist.
Thanks

Hi David. Yeah, the Shen Hao is leaning the way but that Tach is a mighty find looking camera but as far as I can tell that is all it has above these others. They all seem about the same.

Thanks.

[Winger]

I have a Chamonix F1. I'm not the most experienced on here, but it suits me well so far. No, you can't close it with a lens attached and the front standard is sorta different. But, it didn't take me long to get used to both. It really didn't take me long to get it once I decided.
I've only had mine since September so I can't answer to longevity, but I believe others are pleased with theirs after more time.

[Peter Lewin]

I've owned a ZoneVI/Wista, and it was a nice camera. It is a bit restricted in terms of bellows extension, and lack of provision for a bag bellows for wide lenses. The "real" ZoneVI cameras overcame these limits, at the cost of a little extra weight. Of the others you mention, I would personally go for the Chamonix, which are very nice cameras. I wouldn't worry about the carbon fiber, it is a strong material (used in airplanes, race cars, and racing bicycles, among other applications). The Tachihara is quite similar to the Wista in weight and limitations. I cannot speak to the Shen Hao. I have also owned a Sinar F, which I would recommend in an instant, and my current metal Canham DLC, which I love, but is probably beyond your price range, and I rarely see them on the used market.

[Jmarmck]

That good to know Winger. But as I said it needs to be doable in the dark with flashlight in mouth. I like the F too.

Peter, I have yet to see a Chamonix on the used market. Same with the Shen Hao. I do see Zone VI but most are beyond my range. Same for the Tachihara. I did see a Wista 45 but I am not sure what the differences are with the Zone VI. I have no idea what you mean by "real" Zone Vi. The Tachihara is fading fast and the Shen Hao and Chamonix are neck and nect after the first furlong.

In reality aren't these all modeled after the Calumet Wood Field Camera?

[Ginette]

... I do see Zone VI but most are beyond my range. Same for the Tachihara. I did see a Wista 45 but I am not sure what the differences are with the Zone VI. I have no idea what you mean by "real" Zone Vi. The Tachihara is fading fast and the Shen Hao and Chamonix are neck and nect after the first furlong.


The real Zone VI is the 4th generation buit by ZoneVI with the 22" bellow, 6" longer than the Wisner model, 3000 cameras was produced in Newfane. Some with a bail, some Gold plated.
First generation 1978-1980 Tachihara, second generation 1980-1985 Wista, 3th generation 1986-1988 Wisner, 5th generation is Zone VI Ultra Light sold by Calumet 2001

What is your budget?
My opinion on witch one is the best... I have a Zone VI (the real!) in 4x5 (probably for sale soon as I don't really use 4x5 now), a Shen-Hao in 5x7 and a Chamonix in 8x10, all bought used. All theses cameras are excellent, more important is the person behind them!!
Buy an used one and try it!

[dodphotography]

I'll throw in my vote for a Wista 45DX___ (whatever version). They aren't a huge investment when compared to others floating around in the market.

Personally, I'm torn between 4x5 and 8x10. Film cost and development is keeping me away from 8x10. What draws me to it? Well, the ability to make alternative contact prints in that size. I'm not a fan of making digital negatives and printing on transparencies.

[Jmarmck]

Hi Ginette. Hmmmm budget, right. I don't really know at this point. 1 k? Maybe a bit more or a lot less depending on what I find available and on how finacial things go in the next week or so. I am sure you understand.

Dodphotography, I did find a Wista 45 (that is all the model info I got) for what seemed a good price when compared to a Zone Vi or Tachihara. But I don't know how those compare. I am still transitioning to LF. But it has been so many years since I have been in a darkroom it is like starting over. I have yet to sort out a decent darkroom. That is also on the plate. In place of that I have an Epson V700 scanner. I have been going through the 35mm and 120 mm stock trying to at least get them in a digital format for evaluation. Some are 30 years old and I have never seen them. It is the ultimate in procrastination.

Well folks it is still neck and neck between the two front runners with the Zone VI coming on. The Tach is fading fast into that good night. The Wista 45 is a dark horse at the moment.

[Peter Lewin]

Just a quick explanation about the ZoneVI cameras, expanding on Ginette's explanation. Originally Fred Picker (ZoneVI) sold slightly modified, rebranded Tachiharas and Wistas as ZoneVI cameras; the modifications he added made the imports slightly stronger/more rigid. Then he worked out a design with Ron Wisner, which was a bit heavier, but a much improved and more flexible camera (in terms of the lenses it would accept), made in the USA. Ultimately he manufactured the design himself "in house" in Vermont (Richard Ritter, who is a member of this forum, built those, and is the expert). But to simplify, I consider both the Wisner and ZoneVI in-house versions to be the "real" ZoneVI cameras, superior to the earlier re-branded Wistas and Tachiharas. The point is that you have to be careful when someone advertises a "ZoneVI" on either this site or eBay, etc., and look carefully at the pictures. What I'm calling the "real ZoneVIs" (both of Ginette's "generations 3 & 4") would be the ones I would go for; visually they are significantly overbuilt versus the earlier re-brands.

I believe the Calumet was a re-branded import, possibly a Tachihara, but I'm not sure which.

[Jmarmck]

Thanks Peter. That is great information. Though I will have to find some photos to compare the 3rd and 4th generations to the earlier ones. Can I assume that if the Zone VI specs say 22" extension with full movement front and back then it is a gen 4?

But wouldn't be easier and safer to just go for a known like the Shen Hao TZ or the Chanonix?

[Brassai]

I used a Shen Hao 45 IIa for about six years, and two years ago bought a Chamonix 045n. Personally, I just love the Chamonix but you can't go wrong with either. I do most of my photography in Dakota winters, often at night. The Chamonix is plenty durable.

[Ginette]

Thanks Peter, my English is not very good to have long explanations! But the Zone VI 4th generation 22" is quite impressive, 22"=560mm, I don't think you have more than 400mm in modern 4x5. But it depend if you need this. For me it was important and when I look at 5x7 format I chose the ShenHao 5x7 but the old model HZX57-IIAT with the longer bellows. This can be a buying option for you too, a 5x7 with a 4x5 reducing back. You start with the 4x5 and update later to 5x7. Maybe you can found a good deal on *bay as the format is less known than 4x5. For example I paid 1150$ for mine 4 years ago from a forum member with the originals ShenHao 5x7 back, the 4x5 reducing back and lensboard adapter for Linhof.

[Ginette]

Thanks Peter. That is great information. Though I will have to find some photos to compare the 3rd and 4th generations to the earlier ones. Can I assume that if the Zone VI specs say 22" extension with full movement front and back then it is a gen 4?

But wouldn't be easier and safer to just go for a known like the Shen Hao TZ or the Chanonix?

Front plate of 3th gen will said : Built by Wisner Classic Mfg. Co., for Zone VI Studios".
Front plate of the 4th gen : Made by Zone Vi Studios, Newfane Vermont, USA"

This will be for shure because seller can tell 22" and this is not! He can copy the info from another ads!

[emh]

I believe the Calumet was a re-branded import, possibly a Tachihara, but I'm not sure which.

It is a Tachihara. I have one. If you're looking for a Tachihara, it's worth searching for the Calumet. They usually go for a bit less.

[Jmarmck]

I was just looking that the 5x7. It is a very nice camera and I think the format is more to my liking. As I do have two 4x5s monorails then maybe the 5x7 is not such a bad idea. But then lenses becomes and issue, something I was trying to avoid.

You all are not helping. ;)

[Winger]

I'm pretty sure I've seen a Chamonix 45N2 or F1 here or at APUG since I bought mine. Since the F1 hasn't been out that long, there are fewer out there, of course.
While it does take practice, I'd bet I could assemble mine and have it ready to shoot something in low light in a reasonable time. It does take practice, whatever you get.

[vinny]

The chamonix is made of carbon fiber-covered wood, not just carbon fiber. It's a better camera (more versatile too)than the shenhao too and i don't see any reason to buy the shenhao except for maybe saving a few bucks.

[Regular Rod]

+1 for Shen Hao. Build quality is great, prices reasonable and it is quick and easy to set up. I don't have experience of the other cameras so can only comment on the Shen Hao and the comment is positive.


RR

[Doremus Scudder]

Let me chime in here as well.

I own Wista DXs, a Woodman and a later larger (real) Zone VI camera made by Richard Ritter. I have also looked at the Chamonix and Shen Hao models.

First, the ones I own: In the States, I hike extensively with my Wista DX. With recessed lens boards I can shoot down to 75mm (maybe even 65mm, I don't own one, however) and easily up to 240mm. With a top-hat lensboard I use my 300mm Nikkor M on the Wistas with no problems, but cannot focus closer than 5-6 feet. The movements on the DX include front rise, tilt and swing, back tilt, swing and shift. Bellows are 300mm. It is lightweight and compact and folds up with a smaller lens mounted easily (I leave a 135mm or my Ektar 203mm mounted usually). I own two of these and they are my "go-to" field cameras. Using "point-and-tilt" to get more rise than the front rise alone I can easily vignette my 90mm Super Angulon f/8. Warning: the Wista DXII is similar to the DX but lacks the shift feature (so did the Wista Zone VI cameras if I recall). I would not want a camera without shift somewhere.

My Woodman is even lighter than the Wista DX and is the camera I use in Europe. It will not take recessed boards, but I can use the 90mm on a flat board easily. It has 300mm of bellows and handles up to 240mm easily on a flat board. 300mm with a top-hat board. Movements are similar to the Wista but the shift is on the front standard and the back tilts are a little more limited. That said, I do a heck of a lot of architecturals here in Vienna with the Woodman and it performs fine for the most part. I can only think of one instance when I ran out of rise, even with "point-and-tilt" due to the limited back tilt. The Woodman will not fold up with a lens mounted, making the kit a little bigger. That said, I carry a small rolling/backpack carry-on hybrid pack with the Woodman, five lenses, two sets of six filters, 6-8 filmholders, meter and accessories on my back on my bicycle easily.

The "real" Richard Ritter Zone VI camera is a fuller-featured camera with longer bellows and more extensive movements (the same as other wood folders, front rise, tilt and swing, rear tilt and swing and shift on one standard, just more shift and rise). It, however, is significantly heavier and bulkier than the Wista DX or the Woodman. It usually stays in the car and gets used for shots relatively close to the car. The advantage is the ability to use a 450mm lens (although I had to do a few modifications on it to hold the bellows out that far!). The downside is the weight, especially if I want to pack the 450mm lens as well. It's pack weighs almost twice as much as the lumbar pack I use for the Wista kit. Sure, it has a lot more in it, but I don't like to carry it that far. It has interchangeable bellows if you can find the bag bellows for it. I've modified mine to take recessed Technika boards, but otherwise you'll need flat boards and a bag bellows to be able to use any movements on lenses 90mm and shorter.

If I were buying a new field camera, I'd look at the Chamonix 45n-2 (the 45n-1 had some issues with Fresnel placement; if you plan on only using a plain ground glass, then it would be fine too. If you like a Fresnel, then the 45n-2 is the way to go). The issue is the way the front standard mounts and how the tilt and rise are together on one control. I'd have to handle one to decide. The Shen Hao PTB is similar to the Chamonix in this respect. Both these cameras are really light (3lbs!), and the fiddleyness of the front movements may well be worth the portability advantage.

The Shen Hao TZ is a more conventional design, weighs 4.7 lbs and would be similar to a Wista/Tachi/Woodman but has significantly longer bellows, enabling the use of a 300mm lens on a flat board easily. The HZX is larger, a bit heavier and offers more of everything; bellows draw, movements, etc. I believe all the Shen Hao models now come with universal bellows, which should make using movements with shorter lenses easier. I would seriously look at the TZ if I were in the market.

My recommendations: I love my Wista DX. If you need lightweight and can live without a 300mm lens (or one on a top-hat board) then this is a super camera. The Tachi and Woodman would be in the same category, but don't fold up with a lens mounted.

If you need more bellows draw and still want to stay lightweight, look at the Chamonix and Shen Hao models. You'll have to decide if the front standard arrangement on the Chamonix and the PTB are worth the lighter weight. A TZ would be a nice compromise.

Since you have "heavy" cameras with full features already, I'd advise against one of the larger Shen Hao or Zone VI cameras, on the basis of weight alone. You seem to have that base covered already. They are, however, fine tools and if you need to use a 360mm or longer lens, they will handle that.

Many like metal folding cameras. I don't personally, but it is more a weight issue than anything else. I treat my gear with care and wood cameras have served me well. If you need something significantly more rugged (bulletproof!) then a metal folder might be a choice.

Hope this helps,

Doremus

[Jmarmck]

Thanks Doremus. That was very helpful. I think you are right about the weight issue which will help with the model selection. Thank you very much.
I think the Shen Hao may have a slight advantage. But the Chamonix and Zone VI are still candidates.

I have to wait another 10 days before I can view the for sale section here. Irritating.

[Jim Jones]

My Inba Ikeda (similar to the Tachihara) is very light and beautiful, almost too pretty to use in the field. It accepts a 65mm S-K Super Angulon on a flat board, and lenses up to about 250mm. It can't be folded with a lens attached. Movements have always been adequate. The advantage of light weight over the competition is negligible when the weight of the entire kit is considered.

For handling a camera in the dark, consider one of the LED lights with a headband.

[Regular Rod]

Thanks Doremus. That was very helpful. I think you are right about the weight issue which will help with the model selection. Thank you very much.
I think the Shen Hao may have a slight advantage. But the Chamonix and Zone VI are still candidates.

I have to wait another 10 days before I can view the for sale section here. Irritating.

What happens when you click on New Posts ?

RR

[Jmarmck]

What happens when you click on New Posts ?

RR

I don't see anything indicating a For Sale board. I clicked on a link in another thread leading to some gear for sale. I got a message that I had to be a member for a month before I could access that board.

[Alan Gales]

I don't see anything indicating a For Sale board. I clicked on a link in another thread leading to some gear for sale. I got a message that I had to be a member for a month before I could access that board.

The rule that you need to be a member for a month is to keep down spam.


You are going to find that all the cameras that you mentioned have their fans. There is no perfect camera and what appeals to one person will not appeal to another because we are all different.

I bought a Tachihara because I read the favorable review from Ken Rockwell. It's a great camera for what it was designed to do and everything Ken says it is. I paid $650.00 for mine brand new. I looked into the Shen Hao and thought it was real nice but favored the Tachi for myself. Since I bought my camera the prices have gone up on Tachiharas, Shen Hao has more models and Chamonix has entered the mix.

I have never handled a Shen Hao or Chamonix but if I were to buy new today I would seriously look at the Chamonix. I like how light it is and how rigid the camera is. It is said to compare very favorably to metal cameras in rigidity. The one draw-back to the Chamonix is the need to screw the front standard down into the camera bed. This design takes a little bit longer to set up but keeps the camera weight down.

I recommend picking up a used camera and using it and learning what you like. If you buy right you can always sell later for close to what you paid and then buy the camera that most suits you. Any money that you may lose just figure as a cheap rental fee. Most of us don't keep our first camera. I didn't.

[Pete Watkins]

I'll go along with the Wista DX recomendations. I've had mine since the 1990's and if I need a light camera that has all the movements that I've ever needed and can be used (at a squeeze) with a 65mm lens, OK the movements are very limited but I did not use a recessed board, the 45DX is the one. Read about 4x5's and consider how often you would want to go over 240mm (or 300 with a top hat board). I have other cameras, a 4x5/5x7 Ansco (no front tilt and to be honest it looks good and that's why it's still here). A 4x5/5x7 B&J, great for 5x7, all the movements I've ever needed but can't take a 90mm lens. I also have, and take into the field, a 4x5 Sinar Norma with an 8x10 back and it's gods gift but not light. I have the shutter so I can use barrel lenses but if it's set up for much over 150mm in the field it weighs a ton.
Anyway the Wista looks great as well as doing the job!
Pete.

[Colin Robertson]

I've had the same Shen Hao 5x4 (my first LF camera, by the way) for 7 or 8 years now.
Not too heavy, enough movement for me, bellows could be longer (bought a 360 tele, problem solved). Maybe there are 'better' cameras, but I know this one inside out. It's like driving the same car for years, or using the same darkroom. You tune in. The kit becomes invisible to you because you know it.
Time and money spent researching and trading cameras could be time and money spent shooting, and buying film.
Are you planning to work as a pro? Are you a very high volume shooter? If not, and like most here, you are a recreational shooter buy the camera you feel most drawn to- they'll all do the job. If you really hate it then trade it.
The amount you might lose certainly doesn't compare to the depreciation many people seem happy to swallow on an automobile, or spend on a holiday where they have nothing to show for it but a tan.
Jump in!

[Peter Lewin]

Jmarmck: First, I think Doremus's response was excellent and comprehensive; while I have never met the gentleman, his advice in this forum never fails to stand out. Out of curiosity I took a look at the current offers on the KEH website. KEH is a dealer whom many of us trust; not the lowest prices, but a real business, where you can talk on the phone, return items, etc. They listed two of the cameras we have discussed, a Calumet Woodfield (Tachihara) in the $400s, and a "real" ZoneVI in the $600s (I couldn't tell from the photo whether it was a Wisner or one of Richard Ritter's Vermont ZoneVIs, but I think both are equal in workmanship; as I remember - hazily - Fred took over the manufacture after either a personal disagreement with Ron, or when Ron went out of business, but the two versions of the camera are very similar). Doremus really hit the nail on the head: if you want the most lightweight portability, the Wistas and Tachiharas are the ones you want; if you don't mind some more weight and bulk, the ZoneVI is the more flexible and better-made camera. Personally, I fell under Fred Picker's ZoneVI mystique, and owned (still do) many of his products. My darkroom pretty much uses everything in the old ZoneVI catalog! Which is to say, I would probably gravitate towards the ZoneVI, but the Tachi is smaller, easier to pack, and might be a little easier to set up in the dark, although I suspect that is close to even, unless Doremus, whose Wistas are very similar in design to the Tachis, wishes to add his real-world experience in setting up both.

[papac]

I have a "real" Zone VI and happy with it. Good movements, easy to handle, not to heavy and easy to pack but there are things not mentioned that you might want to take in consideration. You can´t have lens on when you fold it and the back is a spring load back so you are limited in what you can put on the back. 6x12, roll film, reflex viewer and so on. I would like to put a 6x12 roll films back on but thats the only thing I miss, otherwise I´m more the happy with my buy.

[BradS]

These are all good cameras and any one of them would be fine. Although they all look and handle a little differently, none of them is clearly superior to any of the rest. I'd recommend just picking one and working with it for a while. With practice it will do everything you need it to do. Heck, I started with a simple 4x5 press camera and it still does about 80~90% of what I want a LF camera to do. There is no perfect camera. Every one is a compromise of some sort. So, Just pick one...get out and use it! Don't agonize about what one is better than the other....it just doesn't matter that much. What matters is using it and making photos. Any one of these will accomplish that just fine.

[Jmarmck]

Ahh, well you see I am also learning from this experience. So I don't think it is a waste of time. I know that with any of these I would probably be happy. I am not that hard to please. I was just trying to avoid a blunder like I did with a few SF Nikkor lenses. But that was mostly me learning about eBay. Still I got the glass I wanted but I probably paid a bit too much for a couple of them, despite the glass and apertures being in perfect condition. I was hoping to avoid those kind of errors. But is seems that all these cameras have excellent and well deserved reputations. BTW I did ask keh for a bit more info on that Zone VI. I did not see the Tachi.

Does the Zone VI take the Linhof style lens boards? That has been a confusing issue. It seems that almost half the lenses I see on eBay are mounted on Linhof boards. I have the Horseman 450 monorail and the cc401, both have differen boards and do not seem to match anything else on the market. SK Grimes has some adaptors that are fairly inexpensive.

Thanks to you all. I feel better about any which way I go. But one more question. If you were starting over but with your current body of knowledge, would you choose a used camera over a new one, given the equality of these cameras?

[Alan Gales]

Ok, so you have a Horseman monorail. I'm assuming that it takes Sinar lens boards? If so buy a Sinar to Technika reduction board. I did own a Tachihara 4x5, Sinar P 4x5 and a Wehman 8x10. With reduction boards most of my lenses could be swapped between cameras.

As far as buying used over new it would all depend upon price and condition. I would prefer to buy a quality used camera at a good price. If I were looking at Chamonix I would almost certainly buy new. There are very few on the used market. Because of this you don't save much by buying used.

Just remember that a wooden field camera is not going to be anything like your monorail. They are designed to be lightweight and portable and not precision instruments.

[joselsgil]

I have a Zone VI (4th gen from what I have read), it takes a 4x4 inch lens board. Plenty of those lens boards on the market. One note, it does not fold up with a lens attached.

Good luck with your future purchase,

Jose

[Lachlan 717]

Shen Hao XPO will accept the Horseman boards without the need for an adaptor.

[Jim Jones]

New or used? For me, used. The only exception is equipment is the rapidly evolving digital field where new equipment may have significantly better features, and used equipment may be near the end of it's intended life. Great photographs were taken by Eadweard Muybridge, Timothy O'Sullivan, and others of that era with that equipment. When today's photographers are that good, maybe new equipment is justified.

[BradS]

New or used: of the many, many cameras I've owned (probably in the 100's) I can think of only four that I've bought new....a Pentax KX, a Nikon FM3a, the Ilford/Harman 4x5 Titan Pinhole camera and an Ebony RW45. I think there is something to buying a new camera of high quality and taking good care of it but a good used camera in excellent condition is better economically.

It is a foolish waste to seek the perfect camera. There is no such thing. I wish that I had had the sense and discipline to buy the Ebony and not buy all of the other used cameras that I've bought and sold over the years. I've wasted a lot of money buying and selling...but, I did get to learn a lot about all the various cameras. Its kinda funny though...the one camera I kinda regret selling was an old Burke & James Commercial View...I know it went to a good home tough.

On the other hand....it would be difficult (impossible?) to buy a new Crown Graphic these days....


Bottom line, I think it important to buy a good camera in excellent condition (new or like new). There's nothing worse than working with a shitty old camera that cannot be relied upon to do its job well. Pinholes in the bellows, wobly front standards, stiff or jumppy focusing, light leaks, hard to find, non-standard wooden lensboards...this crap all detracts needlessly from the usability of the camera and can ruin your day.

[Geraldpz]

Hi Marty, I have used a 4x5 Zone VI (Wisner) and a Shen Hao. Both are great cameras. I only purchased the Shen Hao because I wanted a 5x7 format camera. A friend of mine recently purchased a Chamonix which he quite likes. It is well made and about half the weight of my Shen Hao. Tough decision but I do not think that you will go wrong with any of those you have listed. Regards Gerry

[angusparker]

Chamonix 45n2 used or F1 new. Better finish that Shen Hao and more movements / longer bellows. They really are excellent - light and easy to use. Openings front standard is not really fiddely but if you want ease of set up but less flexibility then go with an upright design not a folder. For the field I wouldn't go that way. I have both Shen Hao and Chamonix view cameras so speak from experience.

[Jmarmck]

Hi ya'll,
Sorry for not posting. Computer malfunction..............in the middle of scanning..................which required a new hardrive and OS install. Right now I am waiting on the 133 updateds to install. lol

I am going to give it a couple days more before I decide. But I think either a Zone VI (Wisner or real) or a Chamonix. Why not.

I have learned several things from this thread. Firstly, you all are not as rabid about brands as I thought you would be. My Bad. But that is a really good thing because it let me see that in the end it is about the image and all these cameras will suffice for that. The only question is how one will do in the dark over another and weight. That is the choice now. I like the idea of the light Chamonix and am sure I can work out the details of setting up in the dark.

The other thing I learned is that this community is very very helpful, and willing to contribute. I am on a music site as well where help is very hard to come by. I really like the community you all have developed.

Thanks. I will let you all know what I end up with.

Marty

[Larry Gebhardt]

Hi ya'll,
Sorry for not posting. Computer malfunction..............in the middle of scanning..................which required a new hardrive and OS install. Right now I am waiting on the 133 updateds to install. lol

I am going to give it a couple days more before I decide. But I think either a Zone VI (Wisner or real) or a Chamonix. Why not.

I have learned several things from this thread. Firstly, you all are not as rabid about brands as I thought you would be. My Bad. But that is a really good thing because it let me see that in the end it is about the image and all these cameras will suffice for that. The only question is how one will do in the dark over another and weight. That is the choice now. I like the idea of the light Chamonix and am sure I can work out the details of setting up in the dark.

The other thing I learned is that this community is very very helpful, and willing to contribute. I am on a music site as well where help is very hard to come by. I really like the community you all have developed.

Thanks. I will let you all know what I end up with.

Marty

Setting up the Chamonix in the dark requires a flashlight since there are no detents or stops for the front swing. You must align the front standard visually with two dots. It's not hard if you can see and works well enough. I carry a small flashlight so it's not a big deal to me.

I have also owned the Shen Hao HZX, which I sold after buying the Chamonix N-1. I liked the Chamonix's weight, longer bellows and rigidity over the Shen Hao. Also, after buying the Chamonix used I am very happy with the support that Hugo provides for these cameras.

The main thing the Chamonix is missing in my opinion is the ability to move the rear standard to focus. This is only an issue when I shoot macro, so I usually use the Canham MQC for that feature alone. I am also very happy with the support from Keith Canham.

None of the cameras are perfect, and all of our needs are different, so there's no point in being rabid about brands.

[Jmarmck]

I have a cheap (and very light) LED flash light that is attached to the main tripod by a strap. It dangles and flops around like the wrench tool that came with the tripod. The flashlight will throw a spot or a general glow. Very useful. It also will flash and has a whistle as part of the housing. Neat tool. I would recommend one for anyone who shoots in darkness.

I have Nikon digital SF bodies 800, 700, 300 and some rather heavy zoom lenses. Trudging across my yard in darkness is not so bad as I know where the holes are. But out on the abandoned golf course there are fire ant mounds (and I rarely wear shoes). So some sort of light is necessary.

[csxcnj]

You can move the rear standard on the Chamonix N2 and F1

[Kodachrome25]

You can move the rear standard on the Chamonix N2 and F1

I use the rear nearly every time for rough focus when doing macro or the focal length requires it. Then I dial it in with the fine focus, seems to work like a charm, fast too.

[k_redder]

Ok, I have been digging on these cameras for the last two days. I have managed to find at least one of each that are with in the price of what I am willing for fork out. BUT, I have no idea which. I read good and bad about all of them. I lean one way then another. I just don't have the knowledge to make a decision. I like the Shen Hoa TZ 45 for its movements on the front and back and the shiny stuff is nice. I like the idea of the carbon fiber on the Chamonix but am not sure about the durability. It looks great tho! Order time is a detraction. I also have heard about headaches with the front standard when opening. Zone VI Wista, I really like the looks of these but am not sure about the movements. I read someting about them being stiff and not having full movement on the back. The Tach, well they are pricey. Ken Rockwell is high on them. But that does not make the choice any easier.

None of them say anything about closing with the lens still attached.

I am not trying to start a fight here. I would just like to know what you all like and dislike about the ones you are familiar with.

Thanks

Marty
I've had my Chamonix 045N-1 since 2008. It has way more movement than I've ever required in the field, it's lighter than most (if not all) of the cameras you listed, it is quite rigid even when fully extended, is great looking, and so far has shown no evidence that durability is ever going to be an issue. If it was stolen, I would buy the same camera again without hesitation. You really won't go wrong with any camera you have listed, you just have to have your priorities in order. For some, weight is the biggest factor, for others it may be movements, or longest (or shortest) extension, could be anything. Think about what you will be doing with the camera and figure out which specs are most important to YOU. Do that and the best choice for you should bubble up to the top of your list.

[Larry Gebhardt]

You can move the rear standard on the Chamonix N2 and F1

On the N1 it's very difficult to keep things square moving the rear standard since there is no guide like it appears the newer cameras have. So I either completely extend the rear or keep it in the neutral position where you can feel if it's square. If the rear stays square to the body as you slide it back and forwards that would be a compelling reason for me to upgrade to one of the newer cameras. Can you confirm that things stay square as you slide the rear on the N2 and F1 cameras?

[csxcnj]

On the N1 it's very difficult to keep things square moving the rear standard since there is no guide like it appears the newer cameras have. So I either completely extend the rear or keep it in the neutral position where you can feel if it's square. If the rear stays square to the body as you slide it back and forwards that would be a compelling reason for me to upgrade to one of the newer cameras. Can you confirm that things stay square as you slide the rear on the N2 and F1 cameras?

You still have to do it by feel but it is easy. The tracks/feet the rear standard moves on are large and easily kept in line with the body.

http://www.chamonixviewcamera.com/_images/045F1b.jpg


This setup is how you get your swing so it cant run on guides.

[NancyP]

Headlamp, folks! Get the kind with a low-level red light for working in dark without losing dark adaptation. Most mid-priced headlamps will have high power focused white beam, low power wide white beam, and low power red beam.

[Alan Gales]

Headlamp, folks! Get the kind with a low-level red light for working in dark without losing dark adaptation. Most mid-priced headlamps will have high power focused white beam, low power wide white beam, and low power red beam.

I've got one of those. It really comes in handy when I'm cleaning and critiquing camera gear for Ebay or doing other intricate work. I've never tried the red light though. Sounds like a good idea!

[NancyP]

Red headlamp is the astronomer's friend! Read your star map or notes, if you use analog. If you use computer, most astronomy-specific programs have a "red mode" where all text and images are in dark red monochrome. Astro-landscape photographers, take note!

[Jmarmck]

Well, the race has be run and the "real" Zone VI won out. Thank you Ginette. I had three Zone VI on the radar one without a lens, one with a Symmar-S 5.6/210 which I already have and one with a Nikkor-W 5.6/150. I took the one with the Nikkor. I also have a Rodenstock granddagon 6.8/115 on the way. I believe I am set.

Thanks for all your advice and information. It was very helpful. I hope I can return the favor one day.