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Randy Moe
23-Feb-2014, 15:42
I have been getting to know Packard shutters a bit and today I tested what I have with Shutter Speed App. https://itunes.apple.com/us/app/shutter-speed/id560154244?mt=8

I used the same OE new bulb and rubber hose for all except #3 which has DIY RC servo control.

1. 2" Packard #6 1/6 to 1/60th second, depending on how hard and fast I squeezed the bulb. I am not consistent.

2. 3-1/4" Packard #5 1/2 second. About as fast as I can make a 'time' model run. Slower is easy once you learn the trick.

3. 3-1/2" #5 Packard electric modded to RC servo 1/2 second, consistently, and can loop, so it fires every 1/2 second. and it has adjustable flash sync. Ghost pics coming up.

4. 4-1/2" #6 Packard double pumper 1/10th second and slower, hard for my crappy hand to deliver.


For those that don't know about Packard shutters and types, such as #5 and #6. http://www.packardshutter.com/

I have learned they need to be used vertically and with the correct side up, which is not intuitive as my reasoning had me trying them upside down. Pulling the biggest one out of my Studio Ansco made me realize which way is up!

My conclusion is, the bigger they are, the slower they run and it's good to have the 'pin' model #6.

Mine are as old as the hills, new ones may perform faster, but these things have almost no friction points and seem to last forever.

Anybody have any tricks or advice?

I may try compressed air supply to see what I can get. Maybe broken shutters!

Randy Moe
25-Feb-2014, 00:07
Well, I guess I'm learning and maybe getting my right hand stronger. My left can't even budge the shutter... I played with the 4-1/2'" today some more. It has rust under where the felt was , still de-rusting. Can't get it apart, the screws are rusted, I broke one non essential screw already. So I practiced with the shutter upright on a table.

Now I get reliable 1/15th second out of it. I gotta really concentrate on squeezing fast and hard. You strong people won't understand, but I couldn't shake hands with anyone for 2 years.

This is good!

Jim C.
25-Feb-2014, 08:20
Randy what kind of tubing are you using ? I've never used the OEM tubing, but my own experience with Packard is that
they do require a good squeeze on the bulb to actuate but the type of tubing makes a difference, latex tubing is nice and flexible
and works ok in short lengths but at long lengths the tubing itself swells when it meets any resistance.
And you loose the oomph needed to push the piston. This especially applies to studio shutters ( with all the added shutter leafs and associated linkages ).
Vinyl tubing like aquarium tubing seems to work best for long lengths since it resists pressure swelling.
I have not tried automotive vacuum tubing, but I would guess that it will work the same as vinyl tubing in terms of it's
wall thickness and stiffness.

There's a few posts here about 'tuning' the pneumatic cylinder, and the leafs, the pneumatic cylinder is brass and over
the years and previous owners they can get pretty mucked up with lube and verdigris, cleaning and polishing the piston
and bore helps a lot in regards to how hard you have to squeeze. Cleaning the shutter leafs too also helps, I've used alcohol
and naptha to clean them.

Jim Noel
25-Feb-2014, 10:03
Vacuum hose from an auto supply house works well with the one problem being it is not very flexible. AIr pressure will not cause it to swell so all the pressure goes to the shutter.

Randy Moe
25-Feb-2014, 11:39
I using new hose and bulb bought from http://www.packardshutter.com/

Some of these are getting better as I exercise them.

And my right hand is getting stronger, don't forget I have bad hands.

Most have stated instantaneous speeds are 1/25th and I am close to those speeds on 2 shutters of that type.

Harold_4074
25-Feb-2014, 15:17
Some of these are getting better as I exercise them.

And don't be surprised if some of them behave "differently" after cleaning or "breaking in". I have a new-manufacture 3-1/2 inch that worked perfectly when I got it, but after thirty or forty cycles has become exquisitely sensitive to any back-suction when releasing the bulb for focusing. It's not a defect, really; it works just fine for the closed-open-closed cycle of picture taking, but I have to set it up sideways in order to conveniently focus.

Jim Graves
25-Feb-2014, 15:25
I have also heard the theory ... that the softer tubing cushions the compression and reduces transferred vibration.

Any ideas on that one?

Randy Moe
25-Feb-2014, 15:28
Maybe that's why a double pumper is better.

I almost have my 4-1/2" double pumper apart, one critical screw is rusted in and I really don't want to break that screw and try to replace it, the damn thing is tiny, maybe #2. Trying tiny amounts of penetrating oil...

Are you the Harold with the SC11?


Some of these are getting better as I exercise them.

And don't be surprised if some of them behave "differently" after cleaning or "breaking in". I have a new-manufacture 3-1/2 inch that worked perfectly when I got it, but after thirty or forty cycles has become exquisitely sensitive to any back-suction when releasing the bulb for focusing. It's not a defect, really; it works just fine for the closed-open-closed cycle of picture taking, but I have to set it up sideways in order to conveniently focus.

Randy Moe
25-Feb-2014, 15:28
That's sounds like a ? for Jim Galli!


I have also heard the theory ... that the softer tubing cushions the compression and reduces transferred vibration.

Any ideas on that one?

Harold_4074
25-Feb-2014, 16:53
Are you the Harold with the SC11?

Yep, that would be me.

The shorter lenses that I have will barely focus across the room due to bellows compression, so I don't often use the Packard shutter box. (It adds about 1-1/2 inches to the minimum lens-to-film distance.) Hence the dedicated Packard shutters.

With the camera inverted, the lensboard still has to go in right-side-up for the Packard to work properly; I sort of like the fact that the factory lensboards are beveled on the top edge to allow them to slide in from the "bottom" of the right-side-up camera. Kind of like the left-hand lug nuts on old Chryslers---appropriate in theory, but fortunately not really necessary in practice.

Incidentally, because spring tensions and weights are involved in Packard shutter operation, you may see speed differences if the shutters are driven uniformly but mounted in different orientations. Not something I would care about, but you might.

Randy Moe
25-Feb-2014, 17:02
Timely, since I am about to make a SC11 shutter box!

Could you share pics of it?

I just got my 3 new bellows for my SC11, very happy to start using the big guy.



Are you the Harold with the SC11?

Yep, that would be me.

The shorter lenses that I have will barely focus across the room due to bellows compression, so I don't often use the Packard shutter box. (It adds about 1-1/2 inches to the minimum lens-to-film distance.) Hence the dedicated Packard shutters.

With the camera inverted, the lensboard still has to go in right-side-up for the Packard to work properly; I sort of like the fact that the factory lensboards are beveled on the top edge to allow them to slide in from the "bottom" of the right-side-up camera. Kind of like the left-hand lug nuts on old Chryslers---appropriate in theory, but fortunately not really necessary in practice.

Incidentally, because spring tensions and weights are involved in Packard shutter operation, you may see speed differences if the shutters are driven uniformly but mounted in different orientations. Not something I would care about, but you might.

Harold_4074
25-Feb-2014, 17:09
Could you share pics of it?

Sure. I'll try to make some snapshots in the next few days. It is a factory original, so I'll also see if there are any dimensions which are both non-obvious and important.

Randy Moe
25-Feb-2014, 17:22
Thanks. I am going to stop my plan and wait for those pics!




Could you share pics of it?

Sure. I'll try to make some snapshots in the next few days. It is a factory original, so I'll also see if there are any dimensions which are both non-obvious and important.

cowanw
25-Feb-2014, 18:34
You probably both have seen these re packards and inverted boards, but on the last page of this
http://deardorffcameras.com/deardorffcameras/wp-content/uploads/2012/01/05a.pdf
There are two examples. in addition my inverted cone has a Packard mounted behind it, reducing my bellows length by 6 inches. Like the last page here.
http://deardorffcameras.com/deardorffcameras/wp-content/uploads/2012/01/04a.pdf

Randy Moe
25-Feb-2014, 19:06
Thank you!

No, I had not seen the complete first PDF and never saw the second one at all.

This is great reference material.

I have hung a 3-1/2" Packard directly to the back of a 8 to 6" lens board converter and then use a 6" to Sinar lens board converter. This works for my 3 main barrel lenses, 25" Cooke Process, 30" Artar and fast becoming my favorite a 16-1/2" f6 Gundlach Portrait.

My goal tonight is getting my 4-1/2" Packard fixed and since it is 8" square it's not so easy to hang it behind a 8" lens board.

A box is the answer, and it will be a simple front hanging box, for my 790mm Reinhold. No need now to make it adapt to any other lens, as I doubt I will ever have a huge Petzval. It's good the Reinhold weighs little, so hanging everything off the front is not a problem. The 4-1/2 shutter acts like the Reinhold waterhouse f6.7 aperture.

I have a few lens in shutter on Sinar boards which work well with my current setup.

Flash sync is my next goal, as none of my Packard's have it.

I am always looking for Deardorff Studio literature and information. The Portrait stand, shown in PDF #2 and on eBay right now is a dream, I won't achieve, it is simply too expensive for me right now.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/331117409709?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1423.l2649

Thanks again!





You probably both have seen these re packards and inverted boards, but on the last page of this
http://deardorffcameras.com/deardorffcameras/wp-content/uploads/2012/01/05a.pdf
There are two examples. in addition my inverted cone has a Packard mounted behind it, reducing my bellows length by 6 inches. Like the last page here.
http://deardorffcameras.com/deardorffcameras/wp-content/uploads/2012/01/04a.pdf

Jim Galli
25-Feb-2014, 20:26
That's sounds like a ? for Jim Galli!

Sure, I'll stir the pot. First of all, a double pumper is a #8. 2 pistons, 2 tubes 2 bulbs. Don't like 'em. #6 is the one with pin that does both functions dependent on the pin. #5 is no pin one piston.

I use both hard and soft tubing. I've found that the 1/4" crap from the hardware store that you run all over the garden works great, but a shortish stiff tube can transfer some movement, so I slide some soft tubing over the hard stuff and have a 3 or so foot length of nice soft tubing at the bulb.

Harold_4074
25-Feb-2014, 20:32
The Packard box and inverted cones are exactly what I would need, except that the rear element of a 420mm f/4.5 Heliar needs a larger shutter than will fit on a 6" lensboard. I considered making an 8" recessed board and putting the 7-1/2" square shutter behind that, but Having spent what I did to have the camera refurbished (and the Cochrans did a gorgeous job, by the way) I decided to indulge myself and just invest in dedicated shutters.

I have several Packards with do-it-yourself flash sync (Reno Farinelli at Packard Shutters tells me that this is not uncommon) and all but one have some unfortunate characteristic such as erratic triggering, wires fed through a simple drilled hole in the case, or closed contacts anytime the shutter is open. The latter is a real nuisance shared by an Ilex #5 that I have--the strobes keep popping every few seconds unless I unplug the cord, and then I have to remember to plug it back in before making the exposure.

The current Packard design uses a small microswitch at the top of the case, and judging by the size and shape of the cutouts in the Deardorff Packard shutter box, something very much like it has been in the product line for a long time.

Randy--you mentioned wanting to get to work with "the big guy". My SC11 is named "Dierdre the Deardorff"; if they didn't live so far apart we might consider trying for a litter of portrait cameras....

Randy Moe
25-Feb-2014, 20:49
Thanks Jim,

Got my #8 apart without snapping off any important screws and now taking a break from removing lots of rust inside and out.

This thing will work way better with smooth insides.

I am used to tedious work like this, but I used to get paid real good money for it.

Ah, retirement.


Sure, I'll stir the pot. First of all, a double pumper is a #8. 2 pistons, 2 tubes 2 bulbs. Don't like 'em. #6 is the one with pin that does both functions dependent on the pin. #5 is no pin one piston.

I use both hard and soft tubing. I've found that the 1/4" crap from the hardware store that you run all over the garden works great, but a shortish stiff tube can transfer some movement, so I slide some soft tubing over the hard stuff and have a 3 or so foot length of nice soft tubing at the bulb.

Randy Moe
25-Feb-2014, 20:50
The Packard box and inverted cones are exactly what I would need, except that the rear element of a 420mm f/4.5 Heliar needs a larger shutter than will fit on a 6" lensboard. I considered making an 8" recessed board and putting the 7-1/2" square shutter behind that, but Having spent what I did to have the camera refurbished (and the Cochrans did a gorgeous job, by the way) I decided to indulge myself and just invest in dedicated shutters.

I have several Packards with do-it-yourself flash sync (Reno Farinelli at Packard Shutters tells me that this is not uncommon) and all but one have some unfortunate characteristic such as erratic triggering, wires fed through a simple drilled hole in the case, or closed contacts anytime the shutter is open. The latter is a real nuisance shared by an Ilex #5 that I have--the strobes keep popping every few seconds unless I unplug the cord, and then I have to remember to plug it back in before making the exposure.

The current Packard design uses a small microswitch at the top of the case, and judging by the size and shape of the cutouts in the Deardorff Packard shutter box, something very much like it has been in the product line for a long time.

Randy--you mentioned wanting to get to work with "the big guy". My SC11 is named "Dierdre the Deardorff"; if they didn't live so far apart we might consider trying for a litter of portrait cameras....

Randy Moe
25-Feb-2014, 21:04
Well this monster is no lady. I have a few microswitches and they will be tried after I get this 8" Packard back on the road.

I had trouble with a low battery yesterday with my Einstein flash radio remote, makes it sputter the modeling lamp. Confused me. Since I had it hooked to my RC servo Packard, I wasn't expecting that, I thought I was shorting out inside my makeshift wire box.

We do a lot of exercise to take snap shots. LOL

I had good luck sawing up 1'4" plywood with a handsaw to make 8" lens boards, but first I drill the hole, makes it easier to hold the board. Might make one from aluminum.

Even Sinar boards are easy to drill to size with careful hole saw application.