Film Holder Coding - Notching, Drilling, or Whatever ...

[Ron-D]

I'm wondering if anyone out there has a great system of film holder coding that leaves an image number on the edge of sheet film.

All I've come up with is drilling 1/32" holes in the film flap, with the 1st hole representing the 1st digit in a 2 number code, with the 2nd series of holes being the 2nd digit. I may end up with as many as 20 holes in a flap (0-9 & 0-9)! There must be a better way!

thanks!

[vinny]

Way beyond monochrome has a great system described in it.

[mike rosenlof]

count in binary (base 2). use two files to make a notch. a small triangular file (notch) represents a 1, a small round file represents a 0.

000
001
010
011
100
101
110
111

etc.

[StoneNYC]

Grafmatic...? Or am I missing the point?

See the 4 on the left side of the image.

110819

[Bruce Barlow]

I use base 10 notches.

On the right of the flap, I file a little groove for one, two for two, up to four, fairly close together.

For five, I use a different small file, and file a notch in the middle.

Than I add ones on the right, to get to nine.

Then, for ten, I file a notch on the left side with the same file as I use for a 5.

I have 30 4x5 holders, and easily filed up to 60.

I can see the notches on the proofs. Voila! Works great, except that the numbers read right-to-left. If I could do it again, I'd put ones on the left, and tens on the right.

[BetterSense]

count in binary (base 2). use two files to make a notch. a small triangular file (notch) represents a 1, a small round file represents a 0.

000
001
010
011
100
101
110
111

etc.

Binary seems to require 2 symbols, but you can count a lack-of-symbol as a symbol, if your spacing is good. This is what I do. I use the whole flap as my "register width" and mark off 8 equal spaced fields on the flap by making light scratches on the top of the flap...I use 8 fields simply because it's easy to make a scratch in the middle of the flap, then divide the remaining fields evenly 2 more times. No need for a ruler that way. A notch is a "1" and a lack of notch is a "0". I make the "1" symbols in the flap with any old thing...usually my pocket knife. This lets me encode up to 255 holders...not 256, because I don't count zero (all holders are initially marked zero).

[Collas]

I used a similar system. Thin file for the 1s, a V cut for the fives (Roman numerals), and a wide flat cut for the tens.

Nick

[StoneNYC]

Binary requires that you know binary code, do many here know that? I'm asking as I only vaguely remember them teaching it as a computer class in grade school along with Q-Basic... But it never sunk in.

[Jac@stafford.net]

[...]This lets me encode up to 255 holders...not 256, because I don't count zero (all holders are initially marked zero).

Add one more notch as the Sign Bit for an entirely silly number of holders. :)

[BetterSense]

Binary requires that you know binary code, do many here know that? I'm asking as I only vaguely remember them teaching it as a computer class in grade school along with Q-Basic... But it never sunk in.

Do you really need to know the numerical value, anyway? If you write down the holder in your exposure records, you can just fill in e.g. "1011" as the filmholder used for the exposure. That happens to equal 11 decimal, but it might not matter.

The only time I actually use my notch code is when I find light leaks.

[StoneNYC]

Do you really need to know the numerical value, anyway? If you write down the holder in your exposure records, you can just fill in e.g. "1011" as the filmholder used for the exposure. That happens to equal 11 decimal, but it might not matter.

The only time I actually use my notch code is when I find light leaks.

Good point

[Ari]

Take your pick:

http://www.jbhphoto.com/articles/filmno/filmholder1.htm

http://www.doerzmanphoto.com/film_holders.html

http://books.google.ca/books?id=tYmblNt3wG8C&pg=PA465&lpg=PA465&dq=film+holder+notch+filing&source=bl&ots=FToxHB5aJl&sig=1ST43pSNV_tTzYJnFA9EiRYUSmc&hl=en&sa=X&ei=OTMGU5XgEuimyQHFh4HICw&ved=0CEEQ6AEwAw#v=onepage&q=film%20holder%20notch%20filing&f=false

[brucep]

There are only 10 type of people. ...those that under binary and those that don't

[StoneNYC]

I've been thinking about this, and if I were to do something like this, what I would do is simply in the notch area of the film holder I would place a small number that was reflective and so when the image was exposed the reflective surface which shine back up through the film and overexpose that area causing A number t0 appear, probably obviously an inverse image, a semi circle with silver reflective material and then a number etched out of that

[Doremus Scudder]

I used a similar system. Thin file for the 1s, a V cut for the fives (Roman numerals), and a wide flat cut for the tens.

Nick

Similar to what I do. My Roman numeral notch system is as follows:

I use a small round notch for the "ones" (let's call it a "." here), a "v"-shaped notch for five, a small square notch for 10 (□) an "L" shaped notch for 50 (upside down actually, so it can be filed into the flap) and a large round notch (U) for 100.

Examples: .v = 4; □□□v... = 39; □L.v = 54; □U.□ = 99, etc. This seems to work well for me. You need a set of small files and you only have to notch the inside flap (be sure to clean the holders thoroughly after filing). If you notch right-to-left, the notches will read correctly on the negative.

Best,

Doremus

[BetterSense]

I've been thinking about this, and if I were to do something like this, what I would do is simply in the notch area of the film holder I would place a small number that was reflective and so when the image was exposed the reflective surface which shine back up through the film and overexpose that area causing A number t0 appear, probably obviously an inverse image, a semi circle with silver reflective material and then a number etched out of that

That's a really neat idea that doesn't require anything over-top of the film. I would be interested in knowing if it will work through the films' anti-halation backing. I have seen similar schemes where people laser-print numbers onto transparency film and then glue it to the underside of the flap, so that when the flap folds down it ends up on top of the film and exposes a number into it. The problem I have with schemes like that is that typically they cost some film real-estate...kind of like those grafmatic number wheels. But most of all, I don't have the energy for such elaborate schemes.

[brucep]

There are only 10 type of people. ...those that under binary and those that don't

That should have been understand not under.

[Ari]

That should have been understand not under.

I undered it. :)

[StoneNYC]

That's a really neat idea that doesn't require anything over-top of the film. I would be interested in knowing if it will work through the films' anti-halation backing. I have seen similar schemes where people laser-print numbers onto transparency film and then glue it to the underside of the flap, so that when the flap folds down it ends up on top of the film and exposes a number into it. The problem I have with schemes like that is that typically they cost some film real-estate...kind of like those grafmatic number wheels. But most of all, I don't have the energy for such elaborate schemes.

Well if instead of putting it at the bottom, you put it on the left or right side of the bottom where the image widens, it might be possible, this would have to be done OVER the film though. That said, I hadn't thought about the anti halation layer and might make my idea useless... Hmm I'll try it...

[Rafal Lukawiecki]

I picked up my notching system from Alan Ross. It is Roman, using a set of jeweler's files he kindly gave me: narrow flat for 1, triangular v-shaped for 5, and round for 10.

[Leigh]

The newest Riteway holders (with the automatic slide lock) have a pair of transparent disks on each side that imprint numbers outside the image edge.
Each disk has numbers 0 through 9.

- Leigh

[Vaughn]

I just do not have a great need to know that information...the bookkeeper part of me is easily over-powered by the artist part.

I do have some holders that have very small holes drilled into the metal strips that hold the film in on the long sides of the 8x10 holders.

[John Kasaian]

Simple---name your film holders like I do!:D
Manny, Moe, and Jack for starters and Patty, Maxine & LaVerne. Have more film holders? Larry, Curly, Moe(wait that one's already taken) Shemp. Got only two film holders? Lewis and Martin or Steve and Edie! :rolleyes:

[evan clarke]

Gaffer's tape..I'm gonna have to make a Youtube video. to demonstrate.

[chris_4622]

An interesting thread. I'd like to know how you mark the outsides of the holders so at a glance you can know which one needs extra development for example. And no I'm not talking about post-it notes. I keep field notes on the phone but I need a way to mark the holders so I know which number gets special treatment. Maybe I should have started another thread...

[Leigh]

Simple---name your film holders like I do!

Gaffer's tape..I'm gonna have to make a Youtube video. to demonstrate.
And how do those methods transfer automatically to the film, like an edge imprint does?

Imprinting enables you to correlate the developed negative to the shooting log.

- Leigh

[Vaughn]

My holders are numbered, 1, 2, 3, etc. With a side A and a side B. In my log book, I write down all the info I need...including a very rough drawing of the image going onto the film. I suppose the drawing substitutes for otherwise marking the film. I print, and often show, the film's rebate in my prints, so prefer not to have notches, numbers or whatever showing in the image.

Development decisions are made once I am back home -- the range of light values recorded in the logbook lets me know , though sometimes I might indicate a preference in the logbook on-site.

All the logbook info gets transferred to the envelope the negative is stored in. No possible loss of info due to losing the logbook or having a hard drive or device fail.

I loaded up 20 or so 8x10 holders and five 11x14 holders last night -- ready to hit the road tomorrow morning for 9 day of photographing on the eastside of the Sierras (and a day or two in Yosemite Valley on the way back!) And 10 rolls of 120 for the Rolleiflex. Now I just have to get all the other stuff packed up.

[Bruce Barlow]

An interesting thread. I'd like to know how you mark the outsides of the holders so at a glance you can know which one needs extra development for example. And no I'm not talking about post-it notes. I keep field notes on the phone but I need a way to mark the holders so I know which number gets special treatment. Maybe I should have started another thread...

But yeah - Post-its attached to the slide, and the non-gummed edge inserted into the space between the flap and the dark slide. That way, it won't fall off. Non-permanent holder marking.

[Jmarmck]

...I loaded up 20 or so 8x10 holders and five 11x14 holders last night -- ready to hit the road tomorrow morning for 9 day of photographing on the eastside of the Sierras (and a day or two in Yosemite Valley on the way back!) And 10 rolls of 120 for the Rolleiflex. Now I just have to get all the other stuff packed up.

I lived in Mammoth for a few years. I would love to return............with about 200 loaded holders. Great time of year if there is snow. Good luck!

I will be checking my film holders when I get home. They are used so I have no idea if any are notched. Yes, n00b here.

[Vaughn]

Twenty 8x10 holders should be good for the week (that is about half of the number of 4x5 sheets I exposed in New Zealand on a 6-month trip) -- though I suppose I should toss in the box and a half of Tri-X that I have on hand 'just in case'.

You must be a n00b -- do you know how much work developing 400 sheets of 8x10 would be?! Yikes! I am masochistic enough carrying 60 pounds of 8x10 (have not weighed t he 11x14 kit yet) without adding more to the darkroom side of things! ;)

[Jmarmck]

Yes, I know how much time that would take. But then again, I know the area and what is there. I wish I had known then what I know now.
I am still finding small and medium format negs taken 30 years ago that I have yet to print. Thank goodness for scanners.

Sorry for the off topic remarks.

[Vaughn]

No problem -- my responce was written with tongue-in-cheek. Thankfully I just do not expose that much film! Just my habit/style of working. All the more power to those that can expose that many sheets! We need to demonstrate a need for the material to keep them manufactured!

[StoneNYC]

I lived in Mammoth for a few years. I would love to return............with about 200 loaded holders. Great time of year if there is snow. Good luck!

I will be checking my film holders when I get home. They are used so I have no idea if any are notched. Yes, n00b here.

You're a Newb with 200 holders????!! That's insane...

[Vaughn]

Shirley it is an exaggeration...

[StoneNYC]

Shirley it is an exaggeration...

I hope so, and if not, send me a few, I only need 6 8x10's...

[Leigh]

Shirley it is an exaggeration...
Last time I saw Shirley, she was quite petite.

Surely you knew that.

- Leigh

[Vaughn]

My favorite line from Airplane...:D

[John Kasaian]

And how do those methods transfer automatically to the film, like an edge imprint does?

Imprinting enables you to correlate the developed negative to the shooting log.

- Leigh
They answer to their names being called :o

[Leigh]

Hi John,

You're lucky you shoot great photos.

If you shot dogs, you'd have to whistle. :rolleyes:

- Leigh

[Jmarmck]

Here is one. I checked my 4x5 holders that came with the camera. Out of the 8, 4 are notched. The system is not the same between them and does not matched anything presented here. Oh boy. I guess in the end it does not matter?

A related question. I noticed that the exterior cloth tape on a couple holders has worn off at the ends exposing the joint in the hing. What is the likely hood that it will fog the film? Can that tape be replaced? With what?

[Jac@stafford.net]

A related question. I noticed that the exterior cloth tape on a couple holders has worn off at the ends exposing the joint in the hing. What is the likely hood that it will fog the film? Can that tape be replaced? With what?

Will not fog. Gaffer's tape is good for replacement.

[Rafal Lukawiecki]

The newest Riteway holders (with the automatic slide lock) have a pair of transparent disks on each side that imprint numbers outside the image edge.
Each disk has numbers 0 through 9.

I ended up tearing those little disks out, as they were always turning on their own, changing the numbers I set. The digits were hard to read on most of my negs, too. Ended up filing those holders, like the rest.

[Leigh]

I ended up tearing those little disks out, as they were always turning on their own, changing the numbers I set. The digits were hard to read on most of my negs, too.
Individual experiences differ.

I've shot many many hundreds of sheets in those Riteway holders and never had an issue.

- Leigh

[Doremus Scudder]

An interesting thread. I'd like to know how you mark the outsides of the holders so at a glance you can know which one needs extra development for example. ... I keep field notes on the phone but I need a way to mark the holders so I know which number gets special treatment. ...

No, you don't need a way to mark the holders other than simply writing a number in the space provided.
Usually there is an inset with a white background. Just write your holder number there (if there is no field, then use a small sticker with the number written on it). Then, when you keep your good field notes, indicate which number holder needs special treatment. Null Problemo!


... A related question. I noticed that the exterior cloth tape on a couple holders has worn off at the ends exposing the joint in the hing. What is the likely hood that it will fog the film? Can that tape be replaced? With what?

Book-binding tape works better than gaffer's tape, which dries up and leaves residue. Don't worry about light leaks; if the flap is closed, it is light tight. The dark slide holds it closed. The tape is just a hinge.

Best,

Doremus

[chris_4622]

Doremus,

The film holders don't have a spot for writing the numbers because I made them. I'm looking for an elegant solution to mark the outsides. I have silkscreen ink, maybe I'll screen a small white square on and then I can write numbers there. I would do only one side, that would contain the number of the holder and be considered side "A".

As far as hinging tape or book-binding tape goes I did a search and Print File sells black linen tape. Is this the same thing? Right now I put gaffer's tape on but I'd like to change it to something better for the long run.

[Colin Graham]

This is great hinge tape- http://apps.webcreate.com/ecom/catalog/product_specific.cfm?ClientID=15&ProductID=21116. I haven't had to replace it, even after 7 years of heavy use. Doesn't fray or get all stretched out.

For a memo strip, I tried using a Dymo printed strip with the holder number (and a bunch of extra spaces so it would print out longer for notes), but it's not very durable and the adhesive is so tacky it ends up pulling the wood fibers up on removal. And it's too glossy to write on with a pencil. I also tried some special dry-erase strips, but you have to use a special pen so that didn't seem too practical. I found some nylon V-profile weather-stripping that has an adhesive strip on one side. Once the V fold is cut away it's a decent dry-erase surface, at least for a pencil. Haven't tried ink on it. http://www.amazon.com/M-D-Building-Products-3525-Weatherstrip/dp/B000CSGEIC