Plumbing questions, only fitering water in the darkroom?

[Ginette]

It will be the time to proceed to my second darkroom installation, the plumbing still to be done. Actually I have no water entry in this new room.
How do you install your own darkroom? Is all your water go through the water temperature controller and filter units or if you manage some water outlets (not filtering, not tempered) for cleaning purpose?

[Tin Can]

My first and last darkroom, recently completed, I put everything through the filters and then the Hass valve. I figure my biggest water usage is washing film and paper and all else is far less.

[Leigh]

I filter and temperature-regulate all the water used in my darkroom.

There is a separate spigot that bypasses those, for tasks like mopping the floor.

- Leigh

[Ginette]

My first and last darkroom, recently completed, I put everything through the filters and then the Hass valve. I figure my biggest water usage is washing film and paper and all else is far less.
So you never miss hot water during the valve is set at 68° for washing prints? If you need water at the same time, ex for rince trays, you use the 68° water?

[Leigh]

So you never miss hot water during the valve is set at 68° for washing prints?
All liquid that touches the emulsion during processing should be at the same temperature.

I use the same water for rinsing the trays/beakers/etc.

- Leigh

[Tin Can]

I consider 68 water fairly hot and never reset the temp. I have raised it for scrubbing my 3 sinks, but thats occasional.

Like Leigh, mop water is a different source.


So you never miss hot water during the valve is set at 68° for washing prints? If you need water at the same time, ex for rince trays, you use the 68° water?

[Ginette]

All liquid that touches the film during processing should be at the same temperature.

I use the same water for rinsing the trays/beakers/etc.

- Leigh
I means cleaning the prints trays and the sink during the prints are in the print washer.
I read also in the forum about a filtered water rince for all film development items. My first intention was to have one outlet for unfiltered water but after reading this recommendation, I doubt about the need of extra outlets.

[Ginette]

I consider 68 water fairly hot and never reset the temp. I have raised it for scrubbing my 3 sinks, but thats occasional.

Like Leigh, mop water is a different source.

Yes, maybe hot water will be used very occasionnally. My darkroom is also near the washroom and a bathroom so I have a lot of hot water intakes for the mop !

[jeroldharter]

I put all the water through the mixing valve and then distributed the water to a series of lab valves (Chicago Faucets) to which I could attach 3/8" vinyl tubing. For some of the tubing, I used quick release valves (US Plastics) so that I could swap out different washers. For example, in my sink I had 2 print washers and 2 film washers. Each had its own tube with a quick release hookup so I could easily use whichever one or two I needed.

Don't forget shutoff valves before the filters or else it would be impossible to swap out filter cartridges.

[Tin Can]

Is that vacuum breaker installed correctly?

http://plumbing.about.com/od/irrigation/a/How-To-Install-A-Vacuum-Breaker.htm

[jeroldharter]

Is that vacuum breaker installed correctly?

http://plumbing.about.com/od/irrigation/a/How-To-Install-A-Vacuum-Breaker.htm

No idea, but it worked fine. the works are disassembled and sold off now.

[Tin Can]

I point that out for reference.

There should not be a valve or in this case two valves after the breaker. The valve is before the breaker per code as I understand it.




No idea, but it worked fine. the works are disassembled and sold off now.

[Roger Cole]

I consider 68 water fairly hot and never reset the temp. I have raised it for scrubbing my 3 sinks, but thats occasional.

Like Leigh, mop water is a different source.

Maybe for part of two months a year is my water as cool as that without a chiller.

I filtered my water in my darkroom in TN. I'm about to build my new one and, after a couple years of (admittedly light and infrequent) use of regular unfiltered water upstairs with no problems at all I'm questioning whether the filters are worth bothering with.

[Tin Can]

I don't think it's necessary, but Hass recommends filters with his valve, so I added the filters he sells. I don't filter my house water!

My typical over the top behavior.

I really wanted the ease of constant temp water, at 68. Makes sense for my location as I never need to chill and it's the lowest 'good' temp.




Maybe for part of two months a year is my water as cool as that without a chiller.

I filtered my water in my darkroom in TN. I'm about to build my new one and, after a couple years of (admittedly light and infrequent) use of regular unfiltered water upstairs with no problems at all I'm questioning whether the filters are worth bothering with.

[Luis-F-S]

Run a single line to the room, filter it, then split and go to a water heater, the go both hot/cold to the mixing valve and to a regular hot/cold faucet. Why make life difficult? I posted a plumbing diagram under my Intellifauce post. Luis

[Ginette]

Run a single line to the room, filter it, then split and go to a water heater, the go both hot/cold to the mixing valve and to a regular hot/cold faucet. Why make life difficult? I posted a plumbing diagram under my Intellifauce post. Luis
from your other topic
Ginette, here's the plumbing layout. If you don't need the chiller skip the branches to it, and just run the cold to the cold side of the mixing valve. Only the hot would go to the hot side of the MV. You can see how the line from the pressure tank goes through the filter before it splits to the water heater. That way you only need a single water filter. You may need to clean it more often, but you can use the cheaper "cold" filters. You really want a plain hot/cold faucet for general clean up and to make life simple. L

Yes, I don't need a chiller here in Canada!
I already have water filters housing for hot and cold water that came both with Pressure gauges (if I remember well the seller explanation, if the In and Out pressure are not the same, the cartridge need to be changed).
110870

As I understand, it is better to install the filters before entering the mixing valve, right?
About the cartridges, I have spairs (in the middle of the picture) but what the difference needed between the cold and hot waters filters specifications? Can I use the same filters for both?

I have 3 used Powers Fotopanel (#440, 1-5GPM) I need to test them but it supposed to be good mixing valves. Anyone use this model?

In my first darkroom, I will used it now for developping films with Jobo processor, installation done in the years 1980, I have no water filtering, only a shower unit for the temperature control, not too bad. My intention is to keep this unit but bring a line from the second darkroom, about 20 feet away that will be filtered and water tempered. For me it can be easier to bring it from the new installation in the second darkroom instead of opening the wall in the first darkroom.
Is this make sense to have the water controls outside the darkroom?

[Ginette]

I don't think it's necessary, but Hass recommends filters with his valve, so I added the filters he sells.
I look at their website. They recommend pleated filters (longer life) : hot water, 5 micron. cold water, 10 micron. As I understand, all kind of filters will fit in the standard housing like the ones I have.

[Roger Cole]

Run a single line to the room, filter it, then split and go to a water heater, the go both hot/cold to the mixing valve and to a regular hot/cold faucet. Why make life difficult? I posted a plumbing diagram under my Intellifauce post. Luis

Sounds to me like that IS complicated, installing a second water heater would be a much bigger job than just running hot and cold lines, at least in my case.

[Tin Can]

I do recommend looking up proper and often required, by city code, usage of water vacuum breakers for any permanent darkroom water system. They prevent contamination of your household fresh water and the neighbors.

[ic-racer]

It will be the time to proceed to my second darkroom installation, the plumbing still to be done. Actually I have no water entry in this new room.
How do you install your own darkroom? Is all your water go through the water temperature controller and filter units or if you manage some water outlets (not filtering, not tempered) for cleaning purpose?

I just filter the water that comes out of the mixing valve. Some advantages to doing it that way, for example the cartridge chamber is not pressureized.
Did you get your Powers Photopanel from an ebay seller a few years ago that had about ten of them unused? Mine had poor seals, but I was able to get a rebuild kit. I also have a PDF of the service sheet if you would like it.

110915110916

[ROL]

Is all your water go through the water temperature controller and filter units or if you manage some water outlets (not filtering, not tempered) for cleaning purpose?

As you say, some are temperature controlled, some not, mostly out of cost/convenience in installation. The temp control water panel resides near the wash sink, where temp control is most important. I fill ½ gallon mixing jugs and graduates for film/paper developers (the only necessary temp control for B/W) from a free hose from the multi–spigoted manifold exiting the water panel (the others go directly to washers), and carry to developing trays where necessary in the sink:


http://www.rangeoflightphotography.com/SupportPics/DarkroomPix/DR5.jpg


My 20' long sink has tap, single handle, H/C mixers ($5 closeouts) with over head coil-ly garden hose sprayers, restaurant style, for cleaning at three approximately equidistant locations:


http://www.rangeoflightphotography.com/SupportPics/DarkroomPix/DR2.jpg


The furthest of the three taps from the water panel also has a splitter with another hose for filling water "stop" trays (mixed approximately):


http://www.rangeoflightphotography.com/SupportPics/DarkroomPix/DR3.jpg



Also see here (http://www.rangeoflightphotography.com/pages/a-darkroom-portrait#washsink).

[ROL]

I read also in the forum about a filtered water rince for all film development items.

I use distilled water for final rinse of sheet films (no photoflo). FTR, I also use distilled (not filtered) water to make up all film developers. I set it out in the lab the night before to come to 20ºC. How does it arrive at that temperature? Some sort of HVAC should be considered for general environmental control.

[jp]

As you say, some are temperature controlled, some not, mostly out of cost/convenience in installation. The temp control water panel resides near the wash sink, where temp control is most important. I fill ½ gallon mixing jugs and graduates for film/paper developers (the only necessary temp control for B/W) from a free hose from the multi–spigoted manifold exiting the water panel (the others go directly to washers), and carry to developing trays where necessary in the sink:
.

Nice looking darkroom!

the only thing I'd possibly add would be a track light for safelight and some anti-fatigue mats for the floor.

[ROL]

Floor mats are always a consideration, but I prefer a smooth floor for easier general cleanup and dust control. I just wear good athletic shoes, when working. That way a stumblebum like me has less opportunity for the inevitable.

[Drew Wiley]

Our city water is exceptionally good, mostly from snowmelt, so I only use a filter for the print washers, which attaches to the faucet via ordinary quick-disconnect
and flex line. For anything esp fussy or final film rinsing, I use distilled. For temp control I use simply double-tray water baths for garden-variety work, in conjunction with a Zone VI compensating thermometer/timer thingie. Don't like mixing valves - they waste water and aren't all that precise anyway. When I really do need to be
nitpicky I have a recirculating thermoregulator on hand, which will keep the temp within a tenth of a degree or so. For color processing drums, I simply use a Jobo
tempering box, which is plenty good for that kind of thing.

[ROL]

Our city water is exceptionally good, mostly from snowmelt...

Hetch Hetchy. Serves you right (tsk tsk – just kidding) that the last time measurements were made statewide, Crystral Springs Res. had a much higher cryptosporidia count than anywhere in the Sierra.

[Luis-F-S]

from your other topic

Yes, I don't need a chiller here in Canada!
I already have water filters housing for hot and cold water that came both with Pressure gauges (if I remember well the seller explanation, if the In and Out pressure are not the same, the cartridge need to be changed).
110870

As I understand, it is better to install the filters before entering the mixing valve, right?
About the cartridges, I have spairs (in the middle of the picture) but what the difference needed between the cold and hot waters filters specifications? Can I use the same filters for both?


I want the water filter Before the mixing valve. I don't want all the pipe gunk that comes through whenever there are pressure changes in the line clogging my mixing valve. I have an expensive mixing valve and don't want to have to buy another one. Regardless of whether you have city, or well water, there will always be loose sediment coming through at some time.

The hot water filters are different specs due to the heat. That's why I have a single "cold" filter before the split to the water heater. If you have two separate hot/cold lines into the darkroom, then you'd need two filters, one for each line. I only have to use 1 and I find a 10-20 micron pleated filter sufficient. FWIW, I have a MS in sanitary engineering and have worked in water & waste water for 30 years, so maybe I know a little about this. L

[Roger Cole]

Floor mats are always a consideration, but I prefer a smooth floor for easier general cleanup and dust control. I just wear good athletic shoes, when working. That way a stumblebum like me has less opportunity for the inevitable.

My darkrooms have always been designed to work sitting with smooth floors for rolling an officer chair. :)

[ROL]

Many who have frequented the Hollywood Freestyle store over the years will remember "Jamie". She once told me that she preferred a very compact darkroom where she could roll her chair from enlarger to sink without getting up. I'm a bit more athletic than that, among other things.

[Colin Graham]

I put in a hot water branch line that bypasses the mixer and filters for rinsing trays, etc. That way I can just leave the mixer set to 68 degrees. Obviously, I can't run both at once or the tempered water will plummet to 40 degrees.

[Ginette]

I want the water filter Before the mixing valve. I don't want all the pipe gunk that comes through whenever there are pressure changes in the line clogging my mixing valve. I have an expensive mixing valve and don't want to have to buy another one. Regardless of whether you have city, or well water, there will always be loose sediment coming through at some time.

The hot water filters are different specs due to the heat. That's why I have a single "cold" filter before the split to the water heater. If you have two separate hot/cold lines into the darkroom, then you'd need two filters, one for each line. I only have to use 1 and I find a 10-20 micron pleated filter sufficient. FWIW, I have a MS in sanitary engineering and have worked in water & waste water for 30 years, so maybe I know a little about this. L

Your installation is top notch Luis, Dommage that you are so far from me!
The String Wound water filters I have will be good for cold water? I don't see any info on the filter or bag, how do we know the microns? What is the specs for the hot water?
I will probably install the 2 filters units outside the darkroom (in a closet on the other side of the wall) before entering the mixing valve, make 2 outlets from the mixing valve and 1 outlet (cold and Hot) bypassing the filters and valve. Colin idea of only hot outlet is fine too but I will find this too hot for my needs.


I just filter the water that comes out of the mixing valve. Some advantages to doing it that way, for example the cartridge chamber is not pressureized.
Did you get your Powers Photopanel from an ebay seller a few years ago that had about ten of them unused? Mine had poor seals, but I was able to get a rebuild kit. I also have a PDF of the service sheet if you would like it.

110915110916
No I got them locally and they are used. I remove the casing and look at. One have a broken volume control. Another one, the thermometer was repaired with silicone and the 3th one was a different model 7GPM without the bottom of the 2 others.
The 3 seems to have leak in the past. Should I trust theses valves ? Even if I test them and they seems OK, I don't want to have problems at short term.
110989110988
Third one 7GPM compare to the bottom X configuration of the 2 others. What is the bottom do exactly?
110990110991
Thanks for the help.

[Tin Can]

I would try them and see, it's all money, of course all new is great, but, it cuts into the film budget.

I have 2 rules I follow, I never use hose clamps twice on anything critical.

I never use silicone for leaks.

I looked again and that RTV repair must be a cracked threaded housing. Maybe OK, but I wouldn't leave it pressurized in my house.

[ic-racer]

No I got them locally and they are used. I remove the casing and look at. One have a broken volume control. Another one, the thermometer was repaired with silicone and the 3th one was a different model 7GPM without the bottom of the 2 others.
The 3 seems to have leak in the past. Should I trust theses valves ? Even if I test them and they seems OK, I don't want to have problems at short term.

I put ball valves in my installation so I can cut the water supply and service the Powers Fotopanel at any time. In fact I keep the ball valves OFF unless I am actually in the darkroom working. Like Randy points out above, this is in my home and a water leak would be catastrophy. I also was not sure if mine would leak (it did leak, even though it was new old stock. However, after installing a repair kit, it was perfectly water-tight). These are top quality units and fully rebuildable and are still being manufactured. Retail price is over $1000. Here is one resource for spare parts. Scroll down to page 22 of this PDF to see the spare parts numbers. http://crestgood.com/catalog/Ch%2002%20P-Q%20only.pdf

The service manual is available here: http://www.scribd.com/doc/124098957/Powers-Photopanel-Manual