Ball head or geared head for a 4x5 camera?

[Anil Kalagatla]

Hi

I just bought a Toyo 45AX and am looking to upgrade my current tripod for it - I currently have a Gitzo 1542T with a PhotoClam ballhead. Do people prefer one kind of head over the other (ballhead vs geared head)?

Thanks
Anil

[mihag]

Hi Anil, of course there are preferences in choosing a head, which also means there is no definite answer to your question; I went for a levelling pan/tilt head, but then again my camera is quite heavy to begin with.

[Ron-D]

Hi Anil. I agree with mihag, a pan/tilt head has served me well. I have the Toyo 45A and use the Manfrotto 029 head with its quick release plates. I also have a Burke & James (wooden) 8x10, and the same head works fine for that too.

Ron

[Anil Kalagatla]

Thanks mihag and Ron, I had not considered a PT head. It probably makes sense, given the wider base of LF cameras (compared with a DSLR etc.).

Anil


Hi Anil, of course there are preferences in choosing a head, which also means there is no definite answer to your question; I went for a levelling pan/tilt head, but then again my camera is quite heavy to begin with.

[djdister]

I have both the Manfrotto 410 Jr. Geared head and the Gitzo G1570M pan tilt head with the large platform. I typically use the 410 head with my 4x5 and sometimes with my lightweight 5x7 (Rittreck View), and the Gitzo P/T head with my large 5x7 (Canham traditional).

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[Kirk Gittings]

I own a heavy duty ball head but don't use it. I prefer sometning much more delberate that moves the camera one axis at a time for both DSLRs and 4x5. I use a Bogen/Manfrotto 410 geared head.

[Peter De Smidt]

I have a Toyo AX. I prefer to use a Manfrotto 410 with it. Like Dan, I use a Gitzo G1570M for bigger cameras.

[mike rosenlof]

I have a nice ballhead that I like with my Wista SP. I think the ballhead works well with a camera of that size, like your Toyo. It's a Cambo (I think) with a relatively large size ball and locks tightly.

With my monorail, (Arca, usually 8x10 lately) if I'm working with the rail at or close to horizontal, I mount the rail directly to the tripod with no head, or use a panoramic rotating clamp (arca type clamp).

[C. D. Keth]

I own a heavy duty ball head but don't use it. I prefer sometning much more delberate that moves the camera one axis at a time for both DSLRs and 4x5. I use a Bogen/Manfrotto 410 geared head.

I like geared and pans-tilt heads for the same reason as Kirk. I hate getting close to the composition I want and then having to unlock everything. I'd rather be able to set each axis and get it right.

[mdarnton]

Here, no to ball heads, for anything. The geared head looks nice, but I'm also very happy with my Bogen 3057 pan tilt head, because I'm left handed and the tilt knob is on the left. It's a monster, though--I have it on my big tripod, where it goes better than on a small one.

[Anil Kalagatla]

Thanks all. I'm glad I asked the question as my original inclination was to get a ball head, like the RRS BH-55. I may still get it for my other gear, but it looks like Manfrotto 410 is the one I will get for the Toyo. I really like how the G1570M P/T head looks, but it's massive! Are there any less massive, but good Pan/tilt heads?

Anil

[Ari]

The Manfrotto 229 is a little smaller, but PT heads are a bulky lot by nature.
There is an Induro PT head with handles that fold away, but it has seen mixed reviews on its stability.

[Anil Kalagatla]

Thanks Ari. I guess is "smaller" is a relative term as the 229 is still over 4 pounds :-) http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/553888-REG/Manfrotto_229_229_Super_Pro_Head.html

[Ari]

Yes, Anil, it is definitely a relative term.
But the 229 is "relatively" compact and is a real workhorse. :)

Going lighter and smaller means opting for a ball head.

[Peter De Smidt]

Here's a smaller version: http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/339483-REG/Gitzo_G2270M_G2270M_Magnesium_Pan_Head.html

[Anil Kalagatla]

Thanks Peter!


Here's a smaller version: http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/339483-REG/Gitzo_G2270M_G2270M_Magnesium_Pan_Head.html

[Peter De Smidt]

Just to point out, most of us, including me, will not have been able to try a bunch of the alternatives, such as the hybrid FLM ball heads. Heads are too expensive to constantly be changing. ( dpreview just did a big comparison of ball heads.) I've had an Arca B1 for years. It works well for smaller formats when speed matters more than precision framing, such as for dslr/35mm portraits. A friend has a Really Right Stuff BH-55, which is nicer than my old Arca.

The 410 head is very good for 4x5 field cameras. The knobs don't stick out very far. They're easy to use. The camera plate is pretty big and rubber coated, which makes the camera less likely to twist on the plate. Some filed cameras need a really big mounting plate (Gitzo, Ries...)to gain rigidity, such as my Kodak 8x10 2D, but the Toyo doesn't have that problem. In addition it's limited to a 300mm lens, unless you'll add the extension back(s). If you did that, and hence used a really long lens, then you might want a stronger head than the 410, but for standard use the 410 works just fine.

[Anil Kalagatla]

Yeah, that makes sense; especially based on this thread and a little more research online. The 410 seems like a good compromise that works for most of my use cases. Just for fun, I did a quick table with some of the heads of interest; the load/weight ratio of the ball heads is amazing when compared with geared heads or P/T head. But you do lose the precise, independent control of different axes, not to mention the smaller surface area of contact.



Name
Type
QR?
Wt (lbs)
Load (lb)
Price


Manfrotto 410 Junior
Geared
Yes
2.7
11
$270


Gitzo 1570M
Pan/Tilt
No
2.9
22
$335


RRS BH-55
Ball head
Yes
1.9
50
$455


RRS BH-40
Ball head
Yes
1.1
18
$375


Manfrotto 405
Geared
Yes
3.5
16.5
$460



Anil



Just to point out, most of us, including me, will not have been able to try a bunch of the alternatives, such as the hybrid FLM ball heads. Heads are too expensive to constantly be changing. ( dpreview just did a big comparison of ball heads.) I've had an Arca B1 for years. It works well for smaller formats when speed matters more than precision framing, such as for dslr/35mm portraits. A friend has a Really Right Stuff BH-55, which is nicer than my old Arca.

The 410 head is very good for 4x5 field cameras. The knobs don't stick out very far. They're easy to use. The camera plate is pretty big and rubber coated, which makes the camera less likely to twist on the plate. Some filed cameras need a really big mounting plate (Gitzo, Ries...)to gain rigidity, such as my Kodak 8x10 2D, but the Toyo doesn't have that problem. In addition it's limited to a 300mm lens, unless you'll add the extension back(s). If you did that, and hence used a really long lens, then you might want a stronger head than the 410, but for standard use the 410 works just fine.

[Alan Gales]

Back when I shot 35mm cameras I always thought a ball head would be nice. I thought it would be easier and faster to use. I finally bought a used Gitzo ball head for my DSLR and found out the opposite was true. I't turns out that I'm a one axis at a time kind of guy. I can't imagine using one with a large format camera. I favor my Ries double-tilt heads.

A lot of people like ball heads so to each their own. My suggestion is to try both and see what works for you.

[Ari]

There was a minor furore that erupted last time someone asked about "Pan-Tilt vs Ball Head" so I hope by now the OP has settled on buying one or the other. :)

[bobwysiwyg]

Back when I shot 35mm cameras I always thought a ball head would be nice. I thought it would be easier and faster to use. I finally bought a used Gitzo ball head for my DSLR and found out the opposite was true. I't turns out that I'm a one axis at a time kind of guy. I can't imagine using one with a large format camera. I favor my Ries double-tilt heads.

A lot of people like ball heads so to each their own. My suggestion is to try both and see what works for you.

Ditto. When I first started with 4x5 postings seemed to suggest that ball heads were the way to go. After struggling to control it I gave up and switched to a two way head. Much happier! Yes, they tend to weigh more but worth the extra few ounces in my book. As suggested, try both if you can.

[Robert Langham]

I tried ball heads- totally uncontrollable for my view cameras. For me at least. I'd go with a used Gitzo pan/tilt of some sort and a few hardware store levels in the bag.

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[Anil Kalagatla]

Yup, this is the OP, I will be going with the 410 :-)


There was a minor furore that erupted last time someone asked about "Pan-Tilt vs Ball Head" so I hope by now the OP has settled on buying one or the other. :)

[Vaughn]

I was very happy with my Gitzo Ballhead #2 on a #300 Gitzo Studex (for landscape). I had a very lightweight 4x5 and used it and the ballhead for many years. Like anything else, once one gets use to something, it can be very fast in use. Fortunately I did not know better, so was quite happy with the set-up. I still find a relatively short tripod and a ballhead very nice for my Rolleiflex (waist-level finder).

But for 4x5 and 5x7 I now have a 200 series Gitzo (Reporter) with a Bogen 3-way pan head, and a set of 300 series Studex legs if I need a heavier pod for short hike or car use.

I have used a Majestic gear head. I think you will like the 410, its beautiful step-sister.

[Steve Goldstein]

Can the 410 or 229 be easily adapted to the Arca-Swiss system?

[WayneStevenson]

I use a Manfrotto 029 pan and tilt with 4x5.

[Peter De Smidt]

Can the 410 or 229 be easily adapted to the Arca-Swiss system?

Yes, you can put an Arca clamp on top, which is what I do when I use my dslr or fuji rangefinders with the head. Hejnar makes an Arca clamp that replaces the Manfrotto plate that's more elegant than my solution.

[Cletus]

Well, since I tend to be a bit of a contrarian anyway, I'll emphatically vote for the ballhead, but not just ANY ballhead. I've used several P-Ts (never a 410 though) and I still believe that a properly adjusted Arca B1 or Z1 is the pinnacle of control and stability for all but the very largest and heaviest of ULF cameras. In those cases I would defer to those mounting directly, or using heavy Ries gear.

I have and used a BH-55 for some time, with the belief that it was the best all-around head available, but IMO the Arca Z1 is superior still, and by no small margin either. I use it regularly with a 9lb Shen Hao 8x10 and prior to that, a 15lb (with lens) Sinar 8x10. As improbable as it is, given its size and weight, the Z1 is so 'dense', solidly damped and greasy smooth in motion that when properly set, you can move the camera on any axis, in increments of millimeters with zero chatter, bounce, skip, jump, whathaveyou. Once locked, the ball unifies with the base and the housing to the point the camera literally becomes one with the tripod. Like sitting on granite.

So I would recommend the Arca Z1 or B1 (or B2 if you can afford it) above all else. And at the risk of taking the minority position in this argument. :-|

[Drew Bedo]

I haven't read the whole thread . . .so I recognise that am coming late to the party.

With respect for the OP: I do not quite understand why this question needs to be asked in the first place. Why not just get one or the other (ball-head or geared head) based on availability and cost—and see how it works out. If you are not comfortable working with whatever you have, dump it and get the other.

Myself: I use both a ball head and a pan head at different times. My 8x10 Kodak 2D is often mounted directly (no ball head or pan head at all) to a wooden tripod with a self-leveling cemter post.

[Drew Wiley]

Yeah... I prefer neither. In fact, my favorite kind of tripod head for large format is none at all. Works great for me. But when I just have to use one, it's always a
solid pan/tilt. As far as I'm concerned, ball heads are the root of all evil when it comes to view camera stability, though might be OK is you have an especially well
built one paired to a lightwt 4x5 with modest bellows extension. Just doesn't make sense from the common laws of physics standpoint. ... the weak point in the
whole support system.

[mdarnton]

Spring might be coming here and I was looking through the web for a head that is lighter than my various Bogen 3-ways, and came across leveling heads. There is one that gives up to 25 degrees of adjustment, and weighs about a pound. Low profile, light, adequate. I wonder how this would work...... anyone? I can't tell if they, or some of them, have any panning ability.This one seems particularly attractive: http://www.amazon.com/FLM-Leveling-Degree-Movement-Direction/dp/B005GXQSAC

My other thought was to cobble up one of those hinged wood sandwich things.

Outside of the studio I hardly ever find my self wanting to look up or down more than a couple of degrees either side of horizontal, anyway.

[Leigh]

... and came across leveling heads. There is one that gives up to 25 degrees of adjustment...
Tripod legs are adjustable.

Why would you need a leveling head?
Their primary design goal is to separate photographers from their money.

If you want to adjust the camera position, get a pan/tilt head.

- Leigh