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View Full Version : You May Say that I'm a Dreamer HOLY GRAIL found VANCAM continues NIKORR APO 1800MM



FrostySnaps
12-Feb-2014, 11:02
Thank you to everyone that doubted me and supported me in finding this lens. I will continue to design and build my 4x4 camera.

-the impossible leads to more fulfilling accomplishments-

David Frost

110333

Dan Fromm
12-Feb-2014, 11:05
Good for you. 1800 or 1780?

And, to make me jealous, how much did you pay for it? "Secret" is a perfectly acceptable answer.

FrostySnaps
12-Feb-2014, 11:07
1800mm

Nathan Potter
12-Feb-2014, 11:42
Holy macaroni! It looks like you intend to use it as a bludgeoning tool. Great image there.

Nate Potter, Austin TX.

DrTang
12-Feb-2014, 12:01
um...um

I guess it's true what they say about guys with large lenses


hahaha


sweet - - good luck

Ari
12-Feb-2014, 12:03
Yes, but will it fit on a Technika board?

FrostySnaps
12-Feb-2014, 13:19
Yes, but will it fit on a Technika board?

It has a Board already attached to it.

goamules
12-Feb-2014, 15:16
Good on ya mate! I told you, just look a while, anything is findable.

FrostySnaps
12-Feb-2014, 16:20
Good on ya mate! I told you, just look a while, anything is findable.

Thanks Garrett! I'm excited to see what it can do!

pierre506
12-Feb-2014, 22:06
Huge cannon~

Vaughn
13-Feb-2014, 00:38
You need a huge cannon when shooting in the Grand Tetons.

Congrats, Mr. Frost! And I wish you the best on the next steps of your project! About 6 feet to how many feet of bellows, or whatever, will be used? Are you going to do close-ups? Kinda joking, but 4x4 macro-photography would be interesting. Technically it sounds a bit like a nightmare - I have been assuming 4feet x 4feet. Over-kill for 4"x4", and 4meters x 4meters would be very ambious indeed! A little shy on depth of field, let alone the lens-to-film distance needed! Still interesting.

But whatever you endeavor, good luck!

StoneNYC
13-Feb-2014, 01:34
You need a huge cannon when shooting in the Grand Tetons.

Congrats, Mr. Frost! And I wish you the best on the next steps of your project! About 6 feet to how many feet of bellows, or whatever, will be used? Are you going to do close-ups? Kinda joking, but 4x4 macro-photography would be interesting. Technically it sounds a bit like a nightmare - I have been assuming 4feet x 4feet. Over-kill for 4"x4", and 4meters x 4meters would be very ambious indeed! A little shy on depth of field, let alone the lens-to-film distance needed! Still interesting.

But whatever you endeavor, good luck!

Well at least 6 feet of bellows I think? Right?

Very amazing find! Want to take my portrait? :)

Ari
13-Feb-2014, 13:07
Yes, but will it fit on a Technika board?


It has a Board already attached to it.

I guess if I have to explain a joke, it wasn't funny in the first place.

Congratulations on finding your mega-lens.

Vaughn
13-Feb-2014, 22:59
Well at least 6 feet of bellows I think? Right?

Very amazing find! Want to take my portrait? :)

Yes. About 6 feet for infinity -- and more for portraits, of course. And I guessing that 1800mm (71") is normal to slightly long for 4'x4' (based on the diagonal of about 60" with 4'x4'), so not so big noses. With this lens, we're talking about the possibility of a van+ sized camera...one of the larger Sprinters or some such thing. Back up to the scene, open the back doors, and you're ready to go!

Cletus
14-Feb-2014, 00:37
So I guess 4x4 would be considered UBER-ULTRA-STUPENDOUS-large-FORMAT?

And this might be a naive question, but probably the only possibility here is wet plate? Surely you don't have some source for film in this format??

Steve Smith
14-Feb-2014, 03:04
I will continue to design and build my 4x4 camera.

4x4? Is that feet?


Steve.

jb7
14-Feb-2014, 04:59
Thank you to everyone that doubted me and supported me in finding this lens. I will continue to design and build my 4x4 camera.

-the impossible leads to more fulfilling accomplishments-

David Frost

110333

I may have come across as a doubter in the earlier thread, however, that really wasn't the case. When you asked about coverage for such a large format, you didn't give any indication of what you intended to photograph, still haven't, really- Shooting at infinity might require a much longer lens than shooting portraits at life size, for example- although both might require similar bellows draw. Everyone who answered seemed to assume you would be shooting at infinity, for some reason.

I'm also assuming now that you're planning on shooting at infinity, which will be a really, really long way away, using that lens...

The Vancam gives a little hint at what you might be doing, and I'm sure your plans are already far advanced, given your commitment to finding the lens. If I might make a suggestion for the film holder, perhaps all it would take would be a drafting table, something like this- to be moved around the interior for focus and shift and swing, (and rise/fall) and which would allow some tilt, although forward tilt might require modification. I can imagine a gimballed lens mount on a cone which could be mounted outside the van, projecting through what could only be described as removable body caps... I can also imagine that table ending up as the world's biggest roll film holder, although I'm sure someone will point me to a larger one...

Good luck with the camera... What do you plan to photograph with it?

http://cdn.dickblick.com/items/516/52/51652-1046-3ww-l.jpg

jp
14-Feb-2014, 07:32
With a table for a film holder, you could unroll about 15 rolls of 120 film and tape them one above the other for a massive stitch, or do a triptych with 3x 14x36 xray film.

StoneNYC
14-Feb-2014, 07:49
4x4? Is that feet?


Steve.

Who knows maybe it's in meters ;)

pasiasty
14-Feb-2014, 09:23
So I guess 4x4 would be considered UBER-ULTRA-STUPENDOUS-large-FORMAT?

And this might be a naive question, but probably the only possibility here is wet plate? Surely you don't have some source for film in this format??

I guess something like 4' is width of film before it is cut. Foma will be happy selling the whole uncut rolls (they even offer custom cut films if you buy whole role, about 50m, 55yd). Another issue is how to develop such a roll-film :)

pasiasty
14-Feb-2014, 09:24
Who knows maybe it's in meters ;)
No, negatives will be only 4x4', but then he will enlarge :)

StoneNYC
14-Feb-2014, 10:10
No, negatives will be only 4x4', but then he will enlarge :)

Oh right! I forgot he was going to also need a 1200mm enlarging lens...

Stupid ACTUAL question. Can the taking lens simply be reversed and be used as the enlarging lens? Is there any reason it wouldn't work or be advisable?

FrostySnaps
14-Feb-2014, 11:13
Well at least 6 feet of bellows I think? Right?

Very amazing find! Want to take my portrait? :)

Stone! I'll take your portrait when I drive it to NYC

Cheers

FrostySnaps
14-Feb-2014, 11:15
Yes Feet

StoneNYC
14-Feb-2014, 11:59
Stone! I'll take your portrait when I drive it to NYC

Cheers

Seriously!?? Wow! (Are you passing through CT? I actually live in Connecticut... The whole NYC thing is a long story).

FrostySnaps
14-Feb-2014, 12:35
Seriously!?? Wow! (Are you passing through CT? I actually live in Connecticut... The whole NYC thing is a long story).

Yes seriously!!! Id love too. I'll let you know when it is up and running

StoneNYC
14-Feb-2014, 15:27
Yes seriously!!! Id love too. I'll let you know when it is up and running

Sweet!

angusparker
14-Feb-2014, 17:11
If you are ever in Bay Area would love do do a portrait too.

FrostySnaps
17-Feb-2014, 14:17
If you are ever in Bay Area would love do do a portrait too.

Sounds GOOD!!! WILL DO!

jnantz
17-Feb-2014, 15:33
good to see you and G sourced a lens
good luck with your project and have a great rode trip

Nigel Smith
17-Feb-2014, 23:09
I guess if I have to explain a joke, it wasn't funny in the first place.

I lol'd!

LF_rookie_to_be
14-Apr-2014, 03:45
Here's an interesting video...


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5bvVdTH1gAY

StoneNYC
14-Apr-2014, 08:16
Here's an interesting video...


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5bvVdTH1gAY

I don't speak Italian so can someone explain to me what exactly is happening here?

Obviously second picture with his giant cube thing, and then there is some kind of photographing thing, but I'm not sure about the process with the box and also with the type of film paper image making material he's doing because he's using a regular JOBO to develop the image on site.

Does anyone know the name of the artist so I can look up his work?

Is the mirror just so that the models can see their reactions and see what they look like for posing purposes?

LF_rookie_to_be
14-Apr-2014, 08:28
The artist's name is Christian Martinelli. The polished thing is a giant camera lucida - you can clearly see the 890mm f11 Apo-Nikkor. The cube looks effective, that's probably the only reason for it being mirror-like. He's using Ilfochrome, and here he's developing a small sheet in a Jobo drum to test exposure and filtration. You can read more on this whole project here (http://www.cubestories.com/) and here (https://www.facebook.com/pages/CubeStories/191015937636550).

StoneNYC
14-Apr-2014, 08:31
The artist's name is Christian Martinelli. The polished thing is a giant camera lucida - you can clearly see the 890mm f11 Apo-Nikkor. The cube looks effective, that's probably the only reason for it being mirror-like. He's using Ilfochrome, and here he's developing a small sheet in a Jobo drum to test exposure and filtration. You can read more on this whole project here (http://www.cubestories.com/) and here (https://www.facebook.com/pages/CubeStories/191015937636550).

Oh wow... Clearly he has too much money... Ilfochrome! Gah!!!

LF_rookie_to_be
15-Apr-2014, 10:25
I guess Learoyd ran out of Ilfochrome - but the results still look good! Again, no van here, no 1800mm lens, but the general idea is the same.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AMsGFUo1G0I&feature=player_detailpage#t=94&hd=1

Amedeus
15-Apr-2014, 17:13
Thanks for sharing ... there's some appeal for the soft tent approach or even the cube approach but I'm set on my trailer project since it is a good compromise for what I want to do ... just a different set-up challenge ;-)


I guess Learoyd ran out of Ilfochrome - but the results still look good! Again, no van here, no 1800mm lens, but the general idea is the same.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AMsGFUo1G0I&feature=player_detailpage#t=94&hd=1

StoneNYC
15-Apr-2014, 17:26
Thanks for sharing ... there's some appeal for the soft tent approach or even the cube approach but I'm set on my trailer project since it is a good compromise for what I want to do ... just a different set-up challenge ;-)

You won't have to unfold yours :)

LF_rookie_to_be
16-Apr-2014, 07:03
Well, here's an interesting bit of info about Learoyd's recent work:

"In the tent-like structure he built in anticipation of this body of work, he opens the shutter and exposes a master sheet of contact paper that he then sends to be printed in New York. There is incredible restraint and anticipation in this process of creation, shipping and waiting. After much searching, he found the lens for his camera obscura through the internet. It was being used as an ashtray somewhere in Eastern Europe. Each contract print measures up to 80 inches on its longest side (...)"
(From: http://www.sfaqonline.com/2013/09/review-the-outside-world-by-richard-learoyd-at-fraenkel-gallery-san-francisco/)

It seems that the lens might be close to 1800mm, perhaps the 1800/16 Apo-Ronar from a Romanian seller that appeared on e*ay a few years ago for a very, very high price . But which type of contact paper might he be using? Just a regular variable-contrast paper or maybe something akin to Endura Clear, but b&w?

Dan Fromm
16-Apr-2014, 07:44
This discussion has prompted me to wonder about how the tent cam users keep the lens' axis perpendicular to the film plane. Does anyone know?

StoneNYC
16-Apr-2014, 09:42
What I don't understand is he says "camera obscura" which I always thought of as pinhole style photography, and when using a lens I just think of it as photography... so what am I missing in my understanding of camera language here?

Are all camera's camera obscura and so he's just using it as a gimmick word to make his work sound more original/old fashioned/classic sounding?


Well, here's an interesting bit of info about Learoyd's recent work:

"In the tent-like structure he built in anticipation of this body of work, he opens the shutter and exposes a master sheet of contact paper that he then sends to be printed in New York. There is incredible restraint and anticipation in this process of creation, shipping and waiting. After much searching, he found the lens for his camera obscura through the internet. It was being used as an ashtray somewhere in Eastern Europe. Each contract print measures up to 80 inches on its longest side (...)"
(From: http://www.sfaqonline.com/2013/09/review-the-outside-world-by-richard-learoyd-at-fraenkel-gallery-san-francisco/)

It seems that the lens might be close to 1800mm, perhaps the 1800/16 Apo-Ronar from a Romanian seller that appeared on e*ay a few years ago for a very, very high price . But which type of contact paper might he be using? Just a regular variable-contrast paper or maybe something akin to Endura Clear, but b&w?

Amedeus
16-Apr-2014, 09:51
Just guessing based on what I designed ... use an adjustable easel/board to attach the film. It's clear the lens board is attached to its own rigit structure.


This discussion has prompted me to wonder about how the tent cam users keep the lens' axis perpendicular to the film plane. Does anyone know?

Amedeus
16-Apr-2014, 09:55
The early camera obscura was indeed based on a pinhole but in the late 16th century the camera obscura with a convex lens became in vogue.

Both are apparentlly good ...


What I don't understand is he says "camera obscura" which I always thought of as pinhole style photography, and when using a lens I just think of it as photography... so what am I missing in my understanding of camera language here?

Are all camera's camera obscura and so he's just using it as a gimmick word to make his work sound more original/old fashioned/classic sounding?

StoneNYC
16-Apr-2014, 10:07
The early camera obscura was indeed based on a pinhole but in the late 16th century the camera obscura with a convex lens became in vogue.

Both are apparentlly good ...

Oh gotcha... thanks, perhaps I'll start shooting with a meniscus lens and call my camera a "camerameniscus" and tell everyone I shoot with a very unique 100 year old lens that no one uses anymore.... hehe :)

W K Longcor
16-Apr-2014, 11:01
What I don't understand is he says "camera obscura" which I always thought of as pinhole style photography, and when using a lens I just think of it as photography... so what am I missing in my understanding of camera language here?

Are all camera's camera obscura and so he's just using it as a gimmick word to make his work sound more original/old fashioned/classic sounding?

Seems to me I remember a beautiful Camera Obscura ( wooden with brass mounted lens) on the desk at Thomas Jefferson's home in Va. He was a great one for "tinkering" with "technology" as it was at that time. So, yes, lenses are found on camera obscuras.

Dan Fromm
16-Apr-2014, 11:06
Just guessing based on what I designed ... use an adjustable easel/board to attach the film. It's clear the lens board is attached to its own rigit structure.

Rudi, thanks for the reply. Perhaps I misunderstood your answer. I can imagine a lens on a support and an easel on another support but I have trouble imagining getting them into good alignment.

hoffner
16-Apr-2014, 11:42
This discussion has prompted me to wonder about how the tent cam users keep the lens' axis perpendicular to the film plane. Does anyone know?

It's not difficult. In a principle, 4 wire ropes of a small diameter and the same length with hooks on each end to hook to the corresponding corners on both standards will do.

Amedeus
16-Apr-2014, 11:49
In my case the easel swings, tilts, shifts and rises ... the basic movements of the rear of a viewcamera to achieve "aligment" or any desired "mis-aligment" with respect to the lens axis. I can see the front of the tent solution having some rise and possibly modest other movements. The only challenge really is to ensure there's stability during the exposure between lens and film plane. Nothing a little engineering can't resolve ...

YMMV


Rudi, thanks for the reply. Perhaps I misunderstood your answer. I can imagine a lens on a support and an easel on another support but I have trouble imagining getting them into good alignment.

LF_rookie_to_be
16-Apr-2014, 12:22
113827

On a second look, this does very much look like a long, long Apo-Ronar, either a 1200mm or even THE 1800mm one.

LF_rookie_to_be
16-Apr-2014, 12:35
Another video on Martinelli's cube (0:07 - 0:59):


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IMYrvo8pZbQ

LF_rookie_to_be
18-Apr-2014, 05:30
Received a reply - Learoyd indeed uses an 1800mm Apo-Ronar and Ilford RC paper.

LF_rookie_to_be
19-Apr-2014, 01:29
Correction - it seems Learoyd uses master rolls of film, not paper, in his tent camera:

"The black-and-white Outside World images were captured with a custom built camera obscura, (...) onto uncut sheets of Ilford Harman film (the height of the his negatives is the about length of a 35mm roll of film). (...) The film is not a custom or special emulsion, simply the uncut sheet."