Looking to buy a LF camera as a gift

[sammy12]

Hi guys.

My girlfriend is a fashion photographer and has used a digital camera for the past 5 years. Before that, she would have used a film camera a bit (mostly during college). Every now and then I hear her lament at the limitations of her current digital camera. So, I was thinking of surprising her with a LF camera but no idea as to what I should be looking for (obviously some are good for fashion, others for architecture, etc, but which ones!). Do I purchase off ebay? Any pointers in the right direction would be greatly appreciated, thanks.

Sam.

[Regular Rod]

Hi guys.

My girlfriend is a fashion photographer and has used a digital camera for the past 5 years. Before that, she would have used a film camera a bit (mostly during college). Every now and then I hear her lament at the limitations of her current digital camera. So, I was thinking of surprising her with a LF camera but no idea as to what I should be looking for (obviously some are good for fashion, others for architecture, etc, but which ones!). Do I purchase off ebay? Any pointers in the right direction would be greatly appreciated, thanks.

Sam.

Lovely idea. How much do you want to spend?

RR

[Mark Woods]

I'd look into a 6x9 format. Might be a good compromise. What are the limits she has expressed?

[sammy12]

Lovely idea. How much do you want to spend?

RR

Good question! I'd like to keep it below £400 (for everything that's needed to start shooting straightaway but I don't know if I'm way off the mark there).

[sammy12]

I'd look into a 6x9 format. Might be a good compromise. What are the limits she has expressed?

Couldn't say for sure but she definitely prefers film! I know that's not much help..

[Regular Rod]

Good question! I'd like to keep it below £400 (for everything that's needed to start shooting straightaway but I don't know if I'm way off the mark there).

Look for an MPP Mk VII outfit, (or a Mk VIII) preferably with a Symmar 150 mm convertible lens and some film holders.

http://www.mppusers.com/mtmkvii.jpg

Very versatile, strong, folds away with the lens inside, beautifully engineered and built. There is a Mk VIII wrongly listed as a MK VI on ffordes website for £249 but no lens included. http://ffordes.com/product/13081217101881

If you have time put a search on eBay and wait. A really nice buy would be an ex-Police or ex-Military outfit if in good condition. http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/MPP-MICRO-TECHNICAL-MK6-7-S92-5X4-LARGE-FORMAT-CAMERA-military-issue-/350975484186?pt=UK_Film_Cameras&hash=item51b7c4e11a


RR

[Tin Can]

Perhaps she doesn't need movements, which are the hallmark of most LF cameras.

Medium format was the fashion industry go to format, without movements.

Medium format film SLR's are what most fashion shooters used, before digital. Hasselblad, Mamiya RB and other lesser cameras. Hassleblads are still in high demand and an outfit is $1000 and up. Mamiya RB's are just as good, more plentiful and can be had within your price range, in perfect condition. I have 3. They are great sturdy cameras with NOS lenses still coming out of Japan at 10% of their previous cost.

The big advantage shooting 120 roll film with a MF SLR is ease of quick focusing and shooting without delay. A fashion model never stops moving!

[Corran]

If I were you...
I'd get a Bessa RF 6x9 camera. Not a Bessa I or II, the Bessa RF. It's not LF but it's a fantastic, pocketable camera that doesn't break the bank but makes nice big negatives. Don't forget a handheld meter to go along with it, like a Gossen DigiSix :).

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Vintage-VOIGTLANDER-BESSA-RF-105mm-f3-5-SKOPAR-Lens-Compur-Rapid-Pre-War-case-/350981090966?pt=UK_Photography_VintageCameras_SM&hash=item51b81a6e96
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Voigtlander-Bessa-RF-Skopar-pre-war-film-tested-in-fully-working-order-clad-EX-/360852203702?pt=US_Vintage_Cameras&hash=item540477a8b6

It's all-manual and not for the faint of heart, but easier than LF to an extent, since it shoots easily available roll film.

[Jim Graves]

Another possibility is the Pentax 67 which was a standard in fashion photography for a number of years.

It looks like a 35mm SLR on steroids, is hand-held, and has thru the lens metering and takes 6cmx7cm negs with wonderful detail.

A classic.

[Alan Gales]

I used to own a Mamiya RZ67. Shooting film does give you a different "look" than digital. For something different there is a 180mm soft focus lens available for the RZ and there is also the RB 150mm SF lens that will also work on the RZ.

Seriously, I would recommend a Sinar monorail with the Sinar Shutter. That way she could shoot modern lenses and older lenses like Commercial Ektars in shutter. Then using the Sinar shutter she could shoot old barrel lenses like Petzvals and soft focus lenses. One of the best things about large format is the huge variety of lenses out there that can give you the "look" that you are looking for.

[onnect17]

There's no right or wrong here, but MF is the way to go with that budget. I would look in e-bay for a 645 or 6x7. I think they are the best quality-per-buck equipment out there. Make sure you select a worldwide search and check the sellers from Japan.

[Alan Gales]

Sorry, I missed your budget. The Sinar shutter alone would probably eat your budget.

[Tin Can]

Got to agree Japan seems to selling some great bargains.


There's no right or wrong here, but MF is the way to go with that budget. I would look in e-bay for a 645 or 6x7. I think they are the best quality-per-buck equipment out there. Make sure you select a worldwide search and check the sellers from Japan.

[John Kasaian]

For a gift, don't get her an old view camera especially, if you're not knowledgeable enough to spot any problems such as leaky bellows, worn out parts, etc....which can quickly put an end to the fun.
Buy her a new Tachi or Shen or Chamonix instead. Of course you'll also need a lens and film holders too.
If you want to go with medium format, for fashion a Mamiya RB67 with the 80mm has a really nice look and they don't seem to be all that expensive used.

[Darin Boville]

Handheld, go with the Pentax 67. In that price range you can get a nice 67 body with one lens in great shape. For mostly tripod mounted maybe the Mamiya series rz67/rb67. About the same price as the Pentax.

The Pentax is big, heavy, and clunky, but more mobile than the others. Hasselblads are great--my favorite--but not optimized for handheld (but not bad) and they shoot a square image--you have to crop to get a rectangle. The point is that the 6x7s end up being much bigger negatives comparing rectangle to rectangle.

If she wants LF but doesn't need movements, look at Crown Graphic. If she needs movements then a Sinar F is in the budget.

--Darin

[AtlantaTerry]

I have owned an RB-67 system since the mid-70s and really like it. But for fashion photography I would look at an RZ camera body because it has an motorized shutter/mirror wind. There is available a film back with powered advance. The RZ model IID will directly work with digital backs without connecting wires.

›

But really in thinking about it how can anyone pick such an important investment as a camera for someone else? Would I like it if someone picked a pair of shoes or automobile for me assuming they knew my tastes? I don't think so.

Would it not be better to give her a lovely card with a cheque and note saying for her to pick the camera she wanted for her needs and tastes?

[Jim Jones]

I agree with Terry. Even lingerie is less personal and intimate than large format cameras.

[Mark Woods]

I have a Sinar with the Sinar Shutter. I love it, but I don't take it on location very often. My V8 Deardorff is actually easier and lighter than my 4x5 Sinar (I have the 8x10 back for it too, it's huge!)

[Tin Can]

Watch the movie, 'Blow Up' http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0060176/ for a good example of 1966 fashion, photograghy and Mod London. Notice the camera, shooting style, darkroom, and it's a fun movie. I think I'll watch it again!

[IanG]

There's an MPP on Ebay at a good price, £100-£140 extra should get a decent lens, there's also complete kits for less than £400 if you get a monorail camera.

Ian

[Steven Tribe]

Large format is a bad idea unless it has a roll film back.
Hasselblad or TLR (Rolleiflex or Mamiya - for lens choice).

[Jim Noel]

Whatever you buy will be wrong, trust me. Give her a gift certificate or credit card which can be used at a good photographic store which still carries good equipment.

[Mark Woods]

Enjoy the journey with her. It can be a lot of fun. As you discuss different cameras' pros & cons, she'll better be able to determine what she wants to do. Have fun!

[Tim Meisburger]

All of them are wrong. Forgot MF. Its been replaced by digital. It would give her nothing over her current gear, except the hassle of roll film. Go LF if you want something special that she will love. Something photographic, but completely different to her current gear. Something special. Something big!

I would search ebay for a nice, wooden 4x5 field camera, So romantic...

[Kuzano]

I just received a HUGE HEAVY Graphic View II that I purchased just to get the lens on the front of it for my Travelwide. I now want to sell it. It's a great old classic monorail with full movements on both ends and geared fine focus on both ends. It came in a fitted case, some DDS film holders, plus a dark cloth. It's in very good condition and the bubble level even has a bubble in it (liquid intact). Very long monorail Would be a great studio, still life camera to explore ALL movement results.

I gotta tell you, I'm very fair on the price, but shipping cost about $60 to get to me. 24 pound box... big.

I plan to post it on the for sale column here, but you can PM me if you want a look at pics. Remember big and heavy and all metal, but an excellent trainer.

Will be on the for sale forum in a couple of days. Sorry to make a pitch here on the regular forum. Please forgive me if you are concerned at all.

Web site on the graphic view II. (mine has black bellows, and I have not used it)

http://lommen9.home.xs4all.nl/view/index.html

[Tim Meisburger]

Here are a few examples of good cameras in your price range: http://www.ebay.com/itm/Wista-45-4x5-Cherry-Brass-Large-Format-Field-Camera-/380828117635?pt=Film_Cameras&hash=item58ab1fea83

http://www.ebay.com/itm/WISTA-4X5-FIELD-CAMERA-CHERRY-FINISH-/231157114440?pt=Film_Cameras&hash=item35d209a648

A wooden camera, a brass lens, a jug of wine and some flowers...

Seriously, and good camera will do anything you want, slowly. But unless she will only use it in the studio, a field camera is more practical than a monorail, and lighter and more romantic than a press camera.

[mikezvi]

This is an awesome present and a LF camera has way more of a "neat" factor than MF. I got my Linhof Tech III for $225 at KEH, and (3) holders for 15 dollars each. You can get a surprisingly nice 210mm for 100-150, and hold things under your budget. If you can't find a bargain tech III, Speed Graphics seem gettable for that price too, or the MPP mentioned earlier.

[Kodachrome25]

Good question! I'd like to keep it below £400 (for everything that's needed to start shooting straightaway but I don't know if I'm way off the mark there).

$660-ish U.S. budget for an LF setup that could turn into a money pit for her? I'd skip the idea of LF entirely at that price. She shoots fashion as a pro, she is used to getting the shot and is finding her current digital gear limiting? I'm sorry but as a person who shoots both medium format and large format film professionally, it takes quite a bit of cash outlay to arrive at a reliable system of getting quality images from LF film unless it is color which she will need to outsource the processing anyway.

I would find out more about what she finds limiting and what part of film shooting she loved the most. My wife is very generous to me in terms of gifts, but she never buys me camera equipment because she knows I am the expert at what I need or want. That being said, creating a public wish list at B&H that she can look at once and awhile has proven to be good.

You are asking advice from a lot of camera enthusiasts here who have no idea what she is all about, you might be better off helping her upgrade to a more suitable DSLR. I think this has a pretty big chance at being a "Swing and a Miss" sir...

[Colin Robertson]

Hi Sammy.
If I understand correctly you're based in the UK. You yourself aren't a photographer, girlfriend is. Budget £400-max, or flexible?
Large format is great. However, you need camera, lens, film holders and suitable tripod (which she might or might not have). Also, what happens next- she needs to develop her film or send it away. Does she have a film scanner? Probably not. So, that's a scanner or an enlarger as well then. See how it grows?
You have choices-
1. Pinhole photography. Using this http://www.ffordes.co.uk/product/13041117541451
She could make paper negatives and contact them. Real 'Blue Peter' photography. Hands on, unpredictable, the antithesis of digital. You'd need some other stuff- a film holder, changing bag, developing trays but you might squeeze in at your budget.
2. As suggested, buy this http://www.ffordes.co.uk/product/13081217101881 and pack film holder. Fuji still make an instant film you can shoot in 5x4 cameras. I've never used it, but if you ask someone here will have- they'll steer you to the film and holder combination you need. You'll work hard to stay on budget but the GF could shoot LF instant photos! How cool is that?
3. Go medium format.
something like this http://microsites.lomography.com/belair/cameras
Modern, funky, shoot film and have it processed and scanned by a lab. Or look for an old Baldax or Agfa Isolette. Cute, pocketable cameras. But what is the GF like?? Is she really attracted to film and 'traditional' methods? If in doubt, buy her a course-
4. The Photography workshop. There are places like this http://thealchemistsworkshop.co.uk/
where the Gf could shoot some film and hang out with other photographers. Might even make a weekend of it . . .

[Keith Pitman]

I hope nobody buys a LF camera for me as a gift. I want to select my own gear. It's very personal.

[VictoriaPerelet]

https://www.badgergraphic.com/store/images/products/41.jpg

Order here (http://www.badgergraphic.com/store/cart.php?m=product_detail&p=20). She'll like that for Valentine's day.

[onnect17]

How about this, print the content of the thread in cards, get a nice gift box, and add the $400 at the end. Let her decide. That and a nice kiss cant go wrong. And say happy valentines from all of us!

[alavergh]

Yeah. From what I've seen of fashion photography now, large format won't be good for that.

She was talking about the librations of digital. For a gift of a film camera (now) to be a good idea, the person should have to want to use film.

I would highly discourage large format unless you know she would want to use that. Even medium format, you have to deal with either photographing B&W and developing yourself, or sending it out, which will cost...probably at least $10 each for the smallest roll.

I would suggest printing this convo as somebody else said, and giving it to her, lol.

[Kurtay Photography]

I concur Jim Graves and Darin Boville..!

I shoot fashion and models are not the same as used to be (fast pace no patients)! End up wasting very expensive films!

Pentax has been my favourite (if it doesn't fail!), Mamiya RZ is great but requires tripod! 6x7 format is affordable but still not cheap and cumbersome to operate! Mamiya 645 is the ideal format and camera for the budget you have! Lenses are awesome and used by many known fashion photographers to the day! A system set up vey important from day one, once you start then you can build! She'd be very happy with this! Also, fits her hands perfect. There are few models as they been around many years! Auto focus option more expensive but manual focus I'd recommend to get it easily done on the spot as she won't be needing that fast movements.

I have a 5x4 Graflex, Polaroid 110b and a 10x8 camera! I used Pentax 6x7 (failed two bodies), Mamiya 6x7! 6x7 or 645 is the most suited format for the job, nice shallow depth of field and bokeh! 6x9 will NOT work. 5x4 is great (Graflex - wooden base up to 1/1000 seconds fast cloth shutter!) expensive film and developing costs (very) and too slow to work with with modern models. Not worth it!

[Kurtay Photography]

"Auto focus option more expensive but manual focus I'd recommend to get it easily done on the spot as she won't be needing that fast movements."

Get the job done! ;) Autofocus is not great on medium format cameras! Slow and miss!

[jbenedict]

I don't think it is a particularly good idea to "surprise' anyone with an item of such personal choice as a camera.

However, here's are a few things that have the lowest risk. Not 'a lot' of money and can be sold easily if unsuitable:

1. Speed/Crown Graphic, 4x5. 127-135 lens, four or five holders, 6x7 roll film back, changing bag, meter, tripod. So, it will need a Graflok back i.e. Pacemaker. A Busch could substitute here. $500 or less if you hunt. A stitching back for about $300 could attach her digicam on the back of it. It takes six shots by sliding back and forth and the shots are stitched in the camera.

2. Rolleflex, Yashica 124G. Could be shot handheld and looks kind of 'hip' which might work in the fashion studio. Easy to use, big negative, easier to get film than 4x5, easier to get processing- mail order or otherwise. Easier to get scanned- mail order or otherwise. If she is in the fashion industry, she probably can get someone to process and scan it for her (Many one-hour labs will do C-14 for 120, make prints and scan. If your area still has one hour labs). Needs a meter (Those old meters frequently don't work or use mercury batteries), maybe a tripod. $250-$500

3. Mamiya 645 Manual focus. Cheap and pretty good lenses. Built in meter available but I would get a meter, perhaps a tripod. $300-$1000 A body and a couple of lenses might go for $700. There is a 55-110 zoom which would work well for a single lens solution. Might get the body and lens for $500.

4. Hasselblad 500cm, 80, 60 or 120, two A12 backs, tripod. Since the digital change over, this stuff is pretty cheap. Yes, the V-Series may use a digiback but they are not particularly available on the used market (at least one that is not older than two generations old) $1000 for body, lens, backs.

5. Cardboard box made to look like a camera, when she opens the finder, it says, "Here's $500 towards a film camera". She could pick what she wants within that budget fairly easily.

6. Since she is artsy-fartsy, she might enjoy making and trying out a pinhole camera. This could cost from almost nothing to a few hundred dollars. There is a lot online on how to use and make these cameras. This might satisfy her 'traditional photography jones' in the cheapest and, perhaps, most fun way. "It's different".

Oh, yeah. In almost every case, she will need a meter. I haven't used it much yet but there are a number of light meters made for smartphones. I have an iPhone 5 and have three cheap/free ones I'm trying out. Will be easier to carry just the phone and not need an extra meter when I'm out with one of my old Leicas or 'meter free' cameras. These are available for Android, too.

[Brian C. Miller]

Order here (http://www.badgergraphic.com/store/cart.php?m=product_detail&p=20). She'll like that for Valentine's day.

Yes! Trust a woman's gift sense! (OK, maybe not budget sense, since $5,200 is quite a bit above £400, i.e., $675) Sam, I'm sure that your girlfriend will just love that camera!


My girlfriend is a fashion photographer and has used a digital camera for the past 5 years. ... So, I was thinking of surprising her with a LF camera...

The truth is that all LF cameras have, at one time or another, been used for fashion. The problem is that all of those shoots were done with a lot of film, which is now rather dear. And there were assistants, etc., and the models knew that it took at least 15 seconds between shots.

Are you expecting your girlfriend to be using the camera in a fashion shoot, like for a few shots, or is it just one of those, "I love you honey" gifts? For £400 you can get a perfectly serviceable press camera, lens, and a few holders, no problem at all. They pop up here in the For Sale section every once in a while. The MPP, as suggested, is quite common in your area, and is a fine camera. There are many of them about. If this camera would actually be used in a shoot, then I recommend that you also buy 50 darkslides (over here they're called film holders) as well.

Some of the guys here have done fashion shots with LF, and recently. The last time I read about it, the fellow had a stack of Graflex Grafmatic (http://www.graflex.org/speed-graphic/grafmatic/) film holders, which hold multiple sheets and allow using a view camera almost as fast as a Nikon.

But do talk with here about it, in a roundabout way, and get her thoughts about what kind of film cameras she would like.

[Steve Barber]

Hey! If you really want to impress her, you are in luck. Best 4x5 camera ever made and the first one I have seen offered on eBay in years. Check out item number 231225506603.

[HMG]

Take a look at all the cameras suggested. Each and every one would be a good choice for someone. But see how different they are? How do you know which type of camera (let alone make/model) is what your girlfriend would want?

Large format has it's own set of complexities with need for more "piece parts" (lens, camera, film holders, meter) and (IMO) more of a requirement to do your own darkroom work.

But you get an A for effort. Please stop making the rest of us look bad to our wives/girlfriends.

[Bruce Watson]

So, I was thinking of surprising her with an LF camera...

Do not do this. Never buy a gift for someone else's specialty. She won't appreciate it -- it's you telling her that you know more about what she's doing than she does. This will not go over well.

Trust me, if she really wanted a film camera, she'd have one.