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NER
30-Jan-2014, 15:54
Is it just my imagination or has anyone else noticed that newer batches of Ilford MGIV fiber seem to give a greater color shift with Kodak Rapid Selenium Toner than the paper used to produce with that toner? My procedure has not changed. As always, it entails sodium sulfite, plain water, and the toner at about 15:1. (Yeah, I know 20:1 is the recommended standard, but I go stronger because I put several prints through each bath, and believe the added strength facilitates protection to the high values.) Thanks.

N. Riley
http://normanrileyphotography.com

hmf
1-Feb-2014, 09:48
This will soon be moot as Ilford has discontinued this paper, in favor of Multigrade FB Classic. I haven't yet tried it, but have read that the "Classic" is supposed to be more responsive to toning.

Pawlowski6132
1-Feb-2014, 10:06
This will soon be moot as Ilford has discontinued this paper, in favor of Multigrade FB Classic. I haven't yet tried it, but have read that the "Classic" is supposed to be more responsive to toning.

I'm sure it's basically the same.

NER
1-Feb-2014, 14:33
This will soon be moot as Ilford has discontinued this paper, in favor of Multigrade FB Classic. I haven't yet tried it, but have read that the "Classic" is supposed to be more responsive to toning.

Thanks for the info regarding MGIV. I talked to Glazers. They don't have the new MGFB Classic in stock, but Freestyle does. Not surprisingly, the price is higher. For those who may be interested, here is the spec sheet for the new paper:
http://www.ilfordphoto.com/Webfiles/2013116121925810.pdf

N. Riley
http://normanrileyphotography.com

Drew Wiley
3-Feb-2014, 15:40
The new paper is not basically the same. Both the density range and response to toning have been conspicuously improved.

Pawlowski6132
3-Feb-2014, 17:44
The new paper is not basically the same. Both the density range and response to toning have been conspicuously improved.

Maybe on paper (pun intended) but, not according the reviews I've read.

Drew Wiley
4-Feb-2014, 09:45
I don't know what reviews I've read. Several of us have posted on more than one forum our own early results. One needs to test these things with respect to their
own expectations. And for my own needs, there have been conspicuous improvements. Just buy some and test for yourself.

NER
4-Feb-2014, 15:11
I've now printed on the new MGFB Classic paper. I conclude that there is almost no difference between MGIV and FB Classic (at least not for my usual FP4 in PMK negative). The stock is the same in weight and color. Induction time is the same, there is no noticeable difference in speed that I could see, the blacks seem equivalent, and dry-down is essentially the same. The only real difference I found in my darkroom is that MGFB classic definitely gives a more pronounced color shift with Kodak Rapid Se toner than MGIV did.

N. Riley
http://normanrileyphotography.com

Pawlowski6132
4-Feb-2014, 16:38
I've now printed on the new MGFB Classic paper. I conclude that there is almost no difference between MGIV and FB Classic (at least not for my usual FP4 in PMK negative). The stock is the same in weight and color. Induction time is the same, there is no noticeable difference in speed that I could see, the blacks seem equivalent, and dry-down is essentially the same. The only real difference I found in my darkroom is that MGFB classic definitely gives a more pronounced color shift with Kodak Rapid Se toner than MGIV did.

N. Riley
http://normanrileyphotography.com

See.

Drew Wiley
4-Feb-2014, 16:46
My idea of "see" is using my own eyes in my own darkroom. I won't step over the line of contradicting what is stated above... just yet.... because I've mainly been
printing the new Cooltone MG version, which is also officially replacing MGIV.... And it is a DISTINCTLY different animal from MGIV. And based on the published tech
sheets, the Neutral tone has more in common with Cooltone than with MGIV, so I'm expecting a distinction there too. But per adjacent post on the Calif drought,
am realistically pacing my printing session. We're officially on rationing, though not in an area where water quality per se will be affected, or where we are expected
to outright run out any time soon.

Eric Biggerstaff
4-Feb-2014, 16:57
I have now used about 100 sheets of the new paper and my experience is very different than Norm's. I find the paper surface different, the speed faster (for me about a stop) and it comes up in developer more quickly than MGFBIV. It does move in Se easier but not by much (MGIV didn't move hardly at all for me). A friend finds that with extended toning in Se it loses a bit of dmax, but another person I know well finds the opposite.

There are a couple of other threads on the new paper, perhaps a review of those will help.

I would guess that everyone will show slightly different results depending on their process.

Drew Wiley
4-Feb-2014, 17:09
I'll again stick to Cooltone, though the published curved for Neutral tone are silmilar. Like Eric stated, very fast printing time, much better microtonality, esp in the
extremes than MGIV, better DMax (toned), more receptive of toners (sel and gold) .... and if you REALLY want to see the difference, try split toning techniques.
I"ll start fooling with the Neutral stuff as soon as large sheet sizes arrive in town, locally. I have little doubt it will be different from MGIV. What I want to see is
how it specifically differs from Cooltone given certain advanced toning tweaks or specialized developers. These are new animals.

Pawlowski6132
4-Feb-2014, 17:48
If it's that different, why didn't they introduce it as a new paper?

Eric Biggerstaff
5-Feb-2014, 07:07
They did, it was announced as a new paper that will replace MGFB IV. If you go to the Ilford site and read about the paper you will learn that it is a very different paper.

Pawlowski6132
5-Feb-2014, 08:06
I know all that. I meant knew line of paper since it is so radically different.

Eric Biggerstaff
5-Feb-2014, 10:08
That is basically what they did, the are discontinuing the MGFB IV line and replacing it with the MG Classic and FB Coldtone. So, now we have FB Warmtone, FB Coldtone and MG Classic. All are excellent papers.

Pawlowski6132
5-Feb-2014, 10:22
Just got a fresh box WT. How can I tell if it's the new formula?

Jon Shiu
5-Feb-2014, 10:35
Just got a fresh box WT. How can I tell if it's the new formula?

Warm tone is unchanged.

Jon

Drew Wiley
5-Feb-2014, 13:23
Warmtone has been a homerun product for awhile now. So Harman apparently figured they could kill two birds with one stone - namely MGIV and Kentmere Fineprint -
by issuing upgraded cooler papers qualitatively parallel to their Warmtone product. Smart move, and I think they've done it well.