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sanking
23-Jan-2014, 09:14
Recently I have been doing a lot of carbon printing from original image capture that was either digital or medium format. Want to share a few of those with you in this thread, and am interested in seeing other carbon prints that began as other than LF film.

The first image is 16"X23" in size and is on a fixed out silver paper, KC surface. I call it Galician Angel. Original capture was with digital capture in a cemetery on the coast in Galicia, Spain. The digital negative was printed on an Epson 7800 with my own QTR profile.

Sandy

Drew Wiley
23-Jan-2014, 09:43
My gosh, Sandy, that looks like a Surreal masterpiece! I'd sure like to see the real print some day.

Jim Fitzgerald
23-Jan-2014, 10:38
Nice one Sandy!

Dave Wooten
23-Jan-2014, 10:45
Wow...how does he do it!?

vinny
23-Jan-2014, 10:54
well done, Sandy.

Vaughn
23-Jan-2014, 11:40
Beautiful, Sandy!

Both from a Diana Camera. On expired Kodak Tech-pan film, developed in Techinol (sp?).

Contact printed, so they are still printed from the original negatives.

Area of Temporary Refuge, North Jetty, Humboldt County.
Two Boys, North Jetty, Humboldt County (accidental double exposure)

sanking
23-Jan-2014, 11:41
Wow...how does he do it!?

Start with a noble and inspirational subject, add some clouds and mist, put that on top of some carbon pigment mixed in gelatin, and there you have it!!

Sandy

Dave Wooten
23-Jan-2014, 12:01
Start with a noble and inspirational subject, add some clouds and mist, put that on top of some carbon pigment mixed in gelatin, and there you have it!!

Sandy
Lol! Got it! Simple enough. Thanks Sandy:)

DougD
23-Jan-2014, 12:18
Awesome stuff Sandy.

Cheers,

Doug

Ari
23-Jan-2014, 13:47
Sandy, that is a fantastic image.
Your photo makes me appreciate the process and its value much more than any other carbon print I have seen before.

No disrespect meant to anyone else here practicing carbon printing, of course.

John Bowen
23-Jan-2014, 14:46
Wonderful image, Sandy. Thanks for sharing.

sanking
23-Jan-2014, 18:15
Hi Ari,

Thanks for your kind comments.

Carbon is a blessing and an affliction, but it really helps to start with an image that has the possibility of being a good carbon print. Many images do not for one reason or another, though explaining why would be a very long story. Digital imaging, where I can explore the possibilities of a given image by looking at the range of tonal ranges that best work, has been been very useful in my work. It might have taken me five or six carbon prints to arrive at the best combination of time and contrast for this image had I gone directly from the monitor to the carbon print, but I made this particular image first as a K7 Piezography test print print to serve as an intermediary between the image on the monitor and the final carbon print. The concept here is to have calibration between monitor>K7 Piezography print >carbon transfer print.

Sandy

Kirk Gittings
23-Jan-2014, 21:38
Recently I have been doing a lot of carbon printing from original image capture that was either digital or medium format. Want to share a few of those with you in this thread, and am interested in seeing other carbon prints that began as other than LF film.

The first image is 16"X23" in size and is on a fixed out silver paper, KC surface. I call it Galician Angel. Original capture was with digital capture in a cemetery on the coast in Galicia, Spain. The digital negative was printed on an Epson 7800 with my own QTR profile.

Sandy

Damnation that is a fine image.........

mdm
24-Jan-2014, 02:29
109107
If only it was easy as it looks. New water, new place, new disaster.

sanking
24-Jan-2014, 15:30
If only it was easy as it looks. New water, new place, new disaster.

David,

Disasters like this present great opportunities for learning. With carbon, as with many hand coated printing processes, one must learn from mistakes in order to move ahead. The more mistakes you make, the more you can learn!! If any given procedure fails more than twice in a row there is most likely a conceptual flaw. Take a deep breath, apply your problem solving skills, and try again. And thank your lucky stars that you have so many opportunities.

Sandy

StoneNYC
24-Jan-2014, 16:03
Recently I have been doing a lot of carbon printing from original image capture that was either digital or medium format. Want to share a few of those with you in this thread, and am interested in seeing other carbon prints that began as other than LF film.

The first image is 16"X23" in size and is on a fixed out silver paper, KC surface. I call it Galician Angel. Original capture was with digital capture in a cemetery on the coast in Galicia, Spain. The digital negative was printed on an Epson 7800 with my own QTR profile.

Sandy

Sandy, just absolutely amazing tones.

Why hasn't Jim posted yet? :)

sanking
24-Jan-2014, 19:07
My intention was to post several images in this thread of recent work but the reception to the first one was so nice I fear another one will be downhill. But, the only way forward is ahead so here is another one, with a somewhat less ethereal subject.

Carbon transfer print 17" X 23" in size from a digital negative. Original was digital capture, digital negative printed with Epson 7800. Called Cathedral Rock.

BTW, the tones in the sky in this image, and in the one of the angel, are in the scene as exposed, i.e. no double exposure or combining images involved.

Sandy

Jim Fitzgerald
24-Jan-2014, 19:15
Stone, Sandy started this post for medium format and digital hybrid work flow image making. Digital negatives and such. I have not done this yet. I only use large format negatives and make my carbon prints from those negatives so it is not appropriate for me to post anything here.

Erik Larsen
24-Jan-2014, 19:15
I like this one better than the first, it's spectacular! My compliments Sandy.

Ari
24-Jan-2014, 19:34
My intention was to post several images in this thread of recent work but the reception to the first one was so nice I fear another one will be downhill. But, the only way forward is ahead so here is another one, with a somewhat less ethereal subject.

Carbon transfer print 17" X 23" in size from a digital negative. Original was digital capture, digital negative printed with Epson 7800. Called Cathedral Rock.

BTW, the tones in the sky in this image, and in the one of the angel, are in the scene as exposed, i.e. no double exposure or combining images involved.

Sandy

Yikes, Sandy! You're making the rest of us look bad. :)
Beautiful, gorgeous image.

StoneNYC
24-Jan-2014, 19:36
Stone, Sandy started this post for medium format and digital hybrid work flow image making. Digital negatives and such. I have not done this yet. I only use large format negatives and make my carbon prints from those negatives so it is not appropriate for me to post anything here.

I just re-read the original post, you're correct, my apologies I missed the "non-LF" work part...

Curt
24-Jan-2014, 19:51
A digital negative from a digital capture, until recently I would have thought it was a abboration of an alternate process. My latest trip to the George Eastman House reignited my optimism toward the future of photography. I see it in transition now, and as I struggled many decades ago to learn the Zone System by reading and studying the first edition of Ansel Adams photography series, in foot candles no less, I see new terminology and concepts that are just as foreign. These will become the "norm" as new generations embrace them.

The kernel or essence of the entire process is the imagination of the creator. Inspiration can drive one deep into complex problems and the results can be visionary. The print shown here is phenomenal! Carbon Transfer printing is definitely challenging but the rewards are beyond description.

A person who never made a mistake never tried anything new. – Albert Einstein

sanking
25-Jan-2014, 10:42
One thing to bear in mind is that while we are talking about carbon transfer prints we are not looking at the real thing. Rather, what you are seeing is a digital representation of the print, and of course digital representation privileges certain qualities of images (graphic quality, tonal values, color) more than qualities we would see in the print as object (surface quality, relief, reflection, etc.).

One might reasonably ask, if one can make a print with a inkjet printer with six or seven shades of permanent pigment by pushing a button, what is the point of taking the process a step farther and making a print with an alternative printing process like carbon or pt/pd?

The question could be answered in several ways. My answer is that I am able to do it, like the process of "hand making" a print, am interested in the long history of carbon transfer printing, and am fascinated by the surface qualities of the print as object.

Sandy

Jim Fitzgerald
25-Jan-2014, 11:06
Sandy, I can echo your reason as well. Something about using all that knowledge one gathers and then become inspired to mix pigments and create a hand made print regardless of the time involved. For me there is no other way. Beautiful work BTW.

StoneNYC
25-Jan-2014, 11:09
One thing to bear in mind is that while we are talking about carbon transfer prints we are not looking at the real thing. Rather, what you are seeing is a digital representation of the print, and of course digital representation privileges certain qualities of images (graphic quality, tonal values, color) more than qualities we would see in the print as object (surface quality, relief, reflection, etc.).

One might reasonably ask, if one can make a print with a inkjet printer with six or seven shades of permanent pigment by pushing a button, what is the point of taking the process a step farther and making a print with an alternative printing process like carbon or pt/pd?

The question could be answered in several ways. My answer is that I am able to do it, like the process of "hand making" a print, am interested in the long history of carbon transfer printing, and am fascinated by the surface qualities of the print as object.

Sandy

I've considered getting a pigment printer, to be able to make "normal" prints for clients who want a cheaper image, and then make "finer" prints for clients who appreciate the subtle difference in a handmade print.

sanking
25-Jan-2014, 11:24
Sandy, I can echo your reason as well. Something about using all that knowledge one gathers and then become inspired to mix pigments and create a hand made print regardless of the time involved. For me there is no other way. Beautiful work BTW.

Jim,

You as much as anyone would understand the joy of process. And as we know, things are not always perfect.

See attachment for one of the ways things can go wrong. This was one of my early work prints, made even after I worked out sensitizing and exposure. Still a long way from a fine print!

Sandy

Jim Fitzgerald
25-Jan-2014, 11:39
Jim,

You as much as anyone would understand the joy of process. And as we know, things are not always perfect.

See attachment for one of the ways things can go wrong. This was one of my early work prints, made even after I worked out sensitizing and exposure. Still a long way from a fine print!

Sandy

Sandy, you know as well as I do and the other fine carbon printers out there that there is an excitement that builds on the way to the final print. The failures we all have help us learn so much. When that final print comes it is pure heaven!

Dinesh
27-Jan-2014, 16:42
Sandy, fantastic as per usual.

It's amazing what one can accomplish when you remember to take the lens cap off.

sanking
27-Jan-2014, 20:59
Sandy, fantastic as per usual.

It's amazing what one can accomplish when you remember to take the lens cap off.


Good point about the lens cap. I have a friend from Toronto who missed out on some great shots of southern kudzu because he burned through three rolls of Portra before noticing the lens cap was on the camera. Oh well, Toronto is a big place so you probably don't know him.

Sandy

sanking
27-Jan-2014, 21:10
Another recent print. It is 17" X 23" in size and pure lamp black. The original capture was with micro four-thirds digital. This print took me a lot of gestation, and materials and work as I wasted 8-10 sheets of large tissue before getting the contrast and density just right. I call it Water Nymphs.

Sandy

StoneNYC
27-Jan-2014, 22:37
Another recent print. It is 17" X 23" in size and pure lamp black. The original capture was with micro four-thirds digital. This print took me a lot of gestation, and materials and work as I wasted 8-10 sheets of large tissue before getting the contrast and density just right. I call it Water Nymphs.

Sandy

Wow sandy, that looks like IR with those leaves, wonderful just axing exposure, they were worth it!

Mind posting one of the "bad" prints for compassion? (If not that's ok, art is sometimes private and personal, but thought I would ask).

mdm
28-Jan-2014, 01:19
Real people in a carbon print, hallelujah.

sanking
28-Jan-2014, 08:43
When mixing the glop does it really make any difference if one uses the Knox gelatin from the grocery store of the special high bloom from places like Artcraft Chemical?

Will you see a difference in quality between them as long as mixing and procedures are consistent?

Many carbon printers use food source gelatins, including Knox. Most food gelatins in the 175-250 Bloom range will work fine for carbon printing. A fairly inexpensive gelatin that is used by a number of carbon printers can be purchased at http://www.bulkfoods.com/cooking-ingredients/1292-unflavored-gelatin.html. This is a 250 Bloom gelatin, though not stated in the sales literature.

Sandy

jon.oman
28-Jan-2014, 09:23
Another recent print. It is 17" X 23" in size and pure lamp black. The original capture was with micro four-thirds digital. This print took me a lot of gestation, and materials and work as I wasted 8-10 sheets of large tissue before getting the contrast and density just right. I call it Water Nymphs.

Sandy

Wonderful image Sandy! I love this one!

sanking
28-Jan-2014, 10:28
Wonderful image Sandy! I love this one!

Thanks, a totally unplanned grab shot that just happened to work! And just before a major afternoon thunderstorm with heavy driving rain that caught me in the open about a mile from the car.

And response to StoneNYC, it is IR, the shot made with a 16 mp 4/3 Panasonic converted to IR.

Sandy

StoneNYC
28-Jan-2014, 13:02
Thanks, a totally unplanned grab shot that just happened to work! And just before a major afternoon thunderstorm with heavy driving rain that caught me in the open about a mile from the car.

And response to StoneNYC, it is IR, the shot made with a 16 mp 4/3 Panasonic converted to IR.

Sandy

Hah! Well I guess that answers that question! I'm not totally blind then haha :)

bob carnie
28-Jan-2014, 13:58
You forgot to mention the cheater cameras that you and Sam were using , taking me to a very bland area and then expecting me to create, magic.. no wonder the cap was on.

By the way what the hell ever happened to the Southern Gentleman.. things like this should not be talked about in public.

I think you know what I am calling you right now......................tch.

Good point about the lens cap. I have a friend from Toronto who missed out on some great shots of southern kudzu because he burned through three rolls of Portra before noticing the lens cap was on the camera. Oh well, Toronto is a big place so you probably don't know him.

Sandy

sanking
28-Jan-2014, 16:01
You forgot to mention the cheater cameras that you and Sam were using , taking me to a very bland area and then expecting me to create, magic.. no wonder the cap was on.

By the way what the hell ever happened to the Southern Gentleman.. things like this should not be talked about in public.

I think you know what I am calling you right now......................tch.

Bob,

Sorry, I thought the story about the lens cap was common knowledge in southern Ontario?

But sadly, you may not get another chance at great views of kudzu. There is a Japanese kudzu bug that is wiping kudzu out. It arrived at the international airport in Atlanta several years ago and has been spreading out from there in the southeast for the past several years. It reached our area late last year.

Sandy

D-tach
16-Feb-2014, 15:00
From a workshop this weekend - 16x20cm print on fixed fiber baryta paper via digital negative originating from a 6x7 TRI X 400 negative.

http://farm4.staticflickr.com/3681/12573517225_cbc296001a_o.jpg

I like this much more than making inkjet prints, I need a darkroom...

Joe O'Hara
16-Feb-2014, 15:15
Another recent print. It is 17" X 23" in size and pure lamp black. The original capture was with micro four-thirds digital. This print took me a lot of gestation, and materials and work as I wasted 8-10 sheets of large tissue before getting the contrast and density just right. I call it Water Nymphs.

Sandy

This is so beautiful. Thank you for sharing.

StoneNYC
16-Feb-2014, 15:56
From a workshop this weekend - 16x20cm print on fixed fiber baryta paper via digital negative originating from a 6x7 TRI X 400 negative.

http://farm4.staticflickr.com/3681/12573517225_cbc296001a_o.jpg

I like this much more than making inkjet prints, I need a darkroom...

This is a beautiful portrait, very well done!

sanking
16-Feb-2014, 16:35
From a workshop this weekend - 16x20cm print on fixed fiber baryta paper via digital negative originating from a 6x7 TRI X 400 negative.



Tom,

Congratulations. Very nice portrait.

How are you making digital negatives?

Sandy

Peter De Smidt
16-Feb-2014, 16:51
Sandy, the image that started this thread is amazing!

D-tach
17-Feb-2014, 03:27
This is a beautiful portrait, very well done!


Tom,

Congratulations. Very nice portrait.

How are you making digital negatives?

Sandy

Thanks Stone & Sandy.

Well, the workshop leader created the digital negatives the week before from files we had to send in :-)
If I recall correctly they're printed with an epson with the original inks using only the blacks and yellow with a correction curve made with Chartthrob.

sanking
17-Feb-2014, 07:26
Hi Joe and Peter,

Thanks for appreciating the images.

Tom,

Printing the negatives ahead of time saves a lot of time fiddling with the digital component at a workshop where the magic is really in the carbon process, not in fiddling around in front of a computer. Looks like it worked out well for you in that you came away with at least one very nice print.

Sandy

ROL
17-Feb-2014, 11:01
Thanks for starting this thread. I doubt I would have caught it if it had not been in LF. I've been looking for for a way to continue "hand-making" prints with compact digital capture for some time (because of ever increasing physical issues with backcountry use of LF equipment), and not been satisfied with most processes. You've certainly given me something to shoot for both in terms of (carbon) process and result.

sanking
19-Feb-2014, 21:08
Thanks for starting this thread. I doubt I would have caught it if it had not been in LF. I've been looking for for a way to continue "hand-making" prints with compact digital capture for some time (because of ever increasing physical issues with backcountry use of LF equipment), and not been satisfied with most processes. You've certainly given me something to shoot for both in terms of (carbon) process and result.

Making high quality "hand-made" prints with digital negatives and alternative printing processes like carbon and pt/pd, from both LF film scans as well as medium format and digital capture, is definitely a doable proposition. Discussions about making digital negatives would be appropriate in the Digital Processing section of this forum.

Sandy

Andrew O'Neill
19-Feb-2014, 23:50
Exeter Cathedral, UK. Digital neg made from a very cropped 4x5, HP5 negative. Image transferred onto fixed out glossy fibre-based photo paper.

Andrew O'Neill
19-Feb-2014, 23:53
Oh sorry, Sandy. Is this thread specifically for carbon transfer prints made with digital capture or small formats?

Curt
20-Feb-2014, 00:01
Exeter Cathedral, UK. Digital neg made from a very cropped 4x5, HP5 negative. Image transferred onto fixed out glossy fibre-based photo paper.

That is a wonderful print Andrew! In the conversion from HP5 to digital did that afford you an increase in contrast or was the original negative a good candidate for carbon? I'm waiting for some old but not fogged paper from Kirk. Again nice print!

Andrew O'Neill
20-Feb-2014, 00:15
Hi Curt, and thank you! I made this negative before I got into alternative printing, so it was not suitable for carbon. I normally work with acrylic sized art papers, but I have to tell you, fixed out photo paper results in the best smooth tones ever! Fixing out all that silver bothers me so I'm going to invest in a silver recovery system. Cheers!

sanking
20-Feb-2014, 08:46
Oh sorry, Sandy. Is this thread specifically for carbon transfer prints made with digital capture or small formats?

Good job, Andy. Nice image, and 4X5 is small format in my opinion. And the main issue here is to focus on the possibilities inherent in printing with digital negative. One could reasonably hold the opinion that whenever we print with a negative larger than 4X5 we are printing large format, regardless of the size or type of original capture.

Sandy

ROL
20-Feb-2014, 09:23
Discussions about making digital negatives would be appropriate in the Digital Processing section of this forum.

Sandy

Was I discussing that? I believe that is part of your process, mentioned in this thread. Okay, just forget the complement.

sanking
20-Feb-2014, 09:43
Was I discussing that? I believe that is part of your process, mentioned in this thread. Okay, just forget the complement.


One of the things I took from my Yoga class today was that an individual is responsible for understanding, and for making himself/herself understood.

The purpose of my comment where I suggested that discussions about digital negatives would be appropriate in the Digital Processing threads on this forum was meant to invite discussions there on this complicated subject, not to suggest that it could not be discussed in this thread, or to suggest that you were discussing it. The purpose was definitely not to criticize you for any comments you made in this thread. If I did not make myself understood I apologize and take responsibility for it.

Sandy

StoneNYC
20-Feb-2014, 09:45
One of the things I took from my Yoga class today was that an individual is responsible for understanding, and for making himself/herself understood.

The purpose of my comment where I suggested that discussions about digital negatives would be appropriate in the Digital Processing threads on this forum was meant to invite discussions there on this complicated subject, not to suggest that it could not be discussed in this thread, or to suggest that you were discussing it. The purpose was definitely not to criticize you for any comments you made in this thread. If I did not make myself understood I apologize and take responsibility for it.

Sandy

Those yogi's are so wise :)

Eric Rose
20-Feb-2014, 11:04
Wow that Cathedral Rock print is freaking amazing!!

Eric


My intention was to post several images in this thread of recent work but the reception to the first one was so nice I fear another one will be downhill. But, the only way forward is ahead so here is another one, with a somewhat less ethereal subject.

Carbon transfer print 17" X 23" in size from a digital negative. Original was digital capture, digital negative printed with Epson 7800. Called Cathedral Rock.

BTW, the tones in the sky in this image, and in the one of the angel, are in the scene as exposed, i.e. no double exposure or combining images involved.

Sandy

D-tach
20-Feb-2014, 11:46
Indeed it is! And those waternimphs... How do you scan such big prints Sandy? Also, do you apply output sharpening for the digital negatives as you would for a regular inkjetprint?

StoneNYC
20-Feb-2014, 12:16
Indeed it is! And those waternimphs... How do you scan such big prints Sandy? Also, do you apply output sharpening for the digital negatives as you would for a regular inkjetprint?

I think he has a machine that breaks up the image into particles and simply transmits it out into cyberspace for all to see it's just that amazing :)

sanking
20-Feb-2014, 13:20
Indeed it is! And those waternimphs... How do you scan such big prints Sandy? Also, do you apply output sharpening for the digital negatives as you would for a regular inkjetprint?

Tom,

I don't scan carbon prints. Scanning is very complicated because of the reflective qualities of these prints. The images of the prints were taken with a digital camera. I just put the print on an easel and make the shot in soft light with a digital camera, in sRGB. The file size is actually hugely reduced, otherwise it would never load onto this forum. Sometimes I use some web output sharpness for the files. I try to adjust contrast and color of the image file to match the print.

In terms of file prep, I use just a tad more unsharp mask for making digital negatives than for printing regular inkjet prints. If I make a digital negative using the exact same preparation used for the digital inkjet print sharpness won't be quite sufficient on the carbon print. Over-sharpening is really ugly with inkjet prints, but it is quasi-magical with carbon because the effect is to increase the impression of relief. The contrast and sharpening used can make or break a carbon print, and it is very difficult to evaluate on the monitor.

Sandy

D-tach
20-Feb-2014, 13:52
Tom,

I don't scan carbon prints. Scanning is very complicated because of the reflective qualities of these prints. The images of the prints were taken with a digital camera. I just put the print on an easel and make the shot in soft light with a digital camera, in sRGB. The file size is actually hugely reduced, otherwise it would never load onto this forum. Sometimes I use some web output sharpness for the files. I try to adjust contrast and color of the image file to match the print.

In terms of file prep, I use just a tad more unsharp mask for making digital negatives than for printing regular inkjet prints. If I make a digital negative using the exact same preparation used for the digital inkjet print sharpness won't be quite sufficient on the carbon print. Over-sharpening is really ugly with inkjet prints, but it is quasi-magical with carbon because the effect is to increase the impression of relief. The contrast and sharpening used can make or break a carbon print, and it is very difficult to evaluate on the monitor.

Sandy

Interesting. Thank you for explaining Sandy!

ndg
23-Feb-2014, 11:36
"The Old Pizzeria" - a carbon transfer print
http://nanadadzie.com/darkroom/pix/Pizzeria.jpg

Originally shot with Mamiya 6, 50mm lens on Delta 100
Scanned and dig neg printed on Pictorico
Image size - 7" x 14"
On white-acrylic-coated aluminum sheet

sanking
23-Feb-2014, 16:08
Hi Nana,

Congratulations, nice work. Looks like you are getting control of the carbon process.

However, be careful with carbon images on white acrylic coated aluminum. The "look" is fantastic, but with a sudden change in humidity the relief can just pop off the sheet.

Sandy

ndg
23-Feb-2014, 18:20
Sandy, thanks but I still need a lot more practice.
Regarding the white acrylic coated aluminum, I remember you writing about that a few years ago.
However, I wanted a rather white surface to compare with the sized papers I use.
I size with glyoxal and I think using it lends a rather yellow tint to the images.
I hate to use my stash of photo paper since they are meant for lith prints. Besides they are not cheap.


Hi Nana,

Congratulations, nice work. Looks like you are getting control of the carbon process.

However, be careful with carbon images on white acrylic coated aluminum. The "look" is fantastic, but with a sudden change in humidity the relief can just pop off the sheet.

Sandy

Andrew O'Neill
23-Feb-2014, 18:27
However, be careful with carbon images on white acrylic coated aluminum. The "look" is fantastic, but with a sudden change in humidity the relief can just pop off the sheet.

That happened to me with heavy weight Yupo. One corner lifted off slightly. Very brittle and snapped off.

sanking
29-Mar-2014, 19:35
Carbon transfer print 16" X 23" in size, on baryta, printed from a digital negative. "Lost Car" from a series of Forgotten Dreams.

Sandy

StoneNYC
29-Mar-2014, 19:42
Carbon transfer print 16" X 23" in size, on baryta, printed from a digital negative. "Lost Car" from a series of Forgotten Dreams.

Sandy

Wow just wow...

Kirk Gittings
29-Mar-2014, 23:08
Carbon transfer print 16" X 23" in size, on baryta, printed from a digital negative. "Lost Car" from a series of Forgotten Dreams.

Sandy

Really nice.

gth
30-Mar-2014, 07:37
I doubt that the 750x500 pixel web pict gives justice to this print which must be something else to behold.

I took the liberty of printing it in 8x10 on my crappy Brother all-in-one printer…. even so it looks phenomenally good…… so there are obvious qualities in the photograph that transcends how you print it.

IT would be interesting to know how the original photo was created and how much processing was done to achieve such perfection.

In totality it is hugely inspiring. Will the carbon print be on display?

Thanks!!





Carbon transfer print 16" X 23" in size, on baryta, printed from a digital negative. "Lost Car" from a series of Forgotten Dreams.

Sandy

Peter De Smidt
30-Mar-2014, 08:05
Yeah, Sandy's image looks good on the screen, but I bet the print is amazing. I wish I could afford a carbon transfer workshop!

bob carnie
30-Mar-2014, 08:36
I am in the midst of preparing my new long term shop, which will have The Dylan Ellis Gallery at the front end. It has been a 30 year dream of mine and it looks like it is shaping up nicely for the fall.

The Gallery will represent Sandy and others who's work is in archival processes and that exhibit aesthetic properties valued by print collectors. My gallery will only represent photographic artists who can generate great prints. Part of what Sandy is doing is preparing a small edition of 15 - 20 collector prints that we will represent and sell.
We plan to exhibit his work in our first year crop of photographers.
When Sandy's show opens he will be here of course and maybe we can convince him to do a master class. The old coot is getting a bit demented so I want to work his sorry ass while he still has his MO JO.

I have been a big fan of Sandy's work now for over 8 years and am lucky enough to have won a lovely print at an event Steve Sherman organized in a benefit for Cancer .
As well I have seen his work many times and have had the chance to watch him work and this series of prints he is making right now should be IMHO some of the nicest prints one will ever see .

Peter you could do no wrong by putting aside some time to come to Toronto , while he is here.




Yeah, Sandy's image looks good on the screen, but I bet the print is amazing. I wish I could afford a carbon transfer workshop!

Vaughn
30-Mar-2014, 08:49
That all sounds wonderful, Bob. Best of luck with the gallery!

gth
30-Mar-2014, 09:40
That is great news. What is your estimated opening date?

/gth





I am in the midst of preparing my new long term shop, which will have The Dylan Ellis Gallery at the front end. It has been a 30 year dream of mine and it looks like it is shaping up nicely for the fall.

The Gallery will represent Sandy and others who's work is in archival processes and that exhibit aesthetic properties valued by print collectors. My gallery will only represent photographic artists who can generate great prints. Part of what Sandy is doing is preparing a small edition of 15 - 20 collector prints that we will represent and sell.
We plan to exhibit his work in our first year crop of photographers.
When Sandy's show opens he will be here of course and maybe we can convince him to do a master class. The old coot is getting a bit demented so I want to work his sorry ass while he still has his MO JO.

I have been a big fan of Sandy's work now for over 8 years and am lucky enough to have won a lovely print at an event Steve Sherman organized in a benefit for Cancer .
As well I have seen his work many times and have had the chance to watch him work and this series of prints he is making right now should be IMHO some of the nicest prints one will ever see .

Peter you could do no wrong by putting aside some time to come to Toronto , while he is here.

gth
30-Mar-2014, 09:42
How much would a print like Sandy's "Lost Car" sell for, if I may be so crass?


I am in the midst of preparing my new long term shop, which will have The Dylan Ellis Gallery at the front end. It has been a 30 year dream of mine and it looks like it is shaping up nicely for the fall.

The Gallery will represent Sandy and others who's work is in archival processes and that exhibit aesthetic properties valued by print collectors. My gallery will only represent photographic artists who can generate great prints. Part of what Sandy is doing is preparing a small edition of 15 - 20 collector prints that we will represent and sell.
We plan to exhibit his work in our first year crop of photographers.
When Sandy's show opens he will be here of course and maybe we can convince him to do a master class. The old coot is getting a bit demented so I want to work his sorry ass while he still has his MO JO.

I have been a big fan of Sandy's work now for over 8 years and am lucky enough to have won a lovely print at an event Steve Sherman organized in a benefit for Cancer .
As well I have seen his work many times and have had the chance to watch him work and this series of prints he is making right now should be IMHO some of the nicest prints one will ever see .

Peter you could do no wrong by putting aside some time to come to Toronto , while he is here.

bob carnie
30-Mar-2014, 09:43
We are looking for a September opening, latest would be October.

I plan to bring Sandy up in Feb to freeze him .

StoneNYC
30-Mar-2014, 10:03
We are looking for a September opening, latest would be October.

I plan to bring Sandy up in Feb to freeze him .

Hah!

sanking
30-Mar-2014, 10:28
Appreciate the kind comments, and questions, about my work.

Regarding the look, my own reaction to the image on the monitor and to the print itself is quite different. Viewing a print on a monitor tends to privilege certain image qualities such as tonal values, graphic disposition and ideatic suggestion. It is on the whole a more cerebral experience. Seeing the print in the flesh encompasses all of the above, but especially with carbon printing it is a more sensual and physical experiences as one is drawn to the surface and textural qualities of the print, some of which are conveyed by image relief. For example, when you look at the image on screen you probably will not see any differentiation in the very deepest shadows. However, in the print itself you can actually see separation into the very deepest shadows because of the ripple effect of relief. This is something I have never observed in prints made with any other type of process, and is thus highly unique to carbon printing.

As for work flow, I attempt to expose and develop/process my negatives and digital files to retain a full range of tones, from the deepest shadows to the highest highlights. Whether I am working with a scan of a negative or digital capture image basic processing is done primarily in Camera Raw in PS. In the ideal world my files would be on the flat side as I find it easier to adjust this type of image with Tone Curve than to get what I want from high contrast files. IR and flat lighting, whether with film or digital, gives a nice template that allows for a lot of creative control.

Sandy

sanking
30-Mar-2014, 11:40
How much would a print like Sandy's "Lost Car" sell for, if I may be so crass?

Nothing crass in asking about price. At least I hope there is not because it is one of the first things on my mind when I contemplate buying a piece of art.

I am not sure at this point about pricing on the large carbon prints, in fact the series is not even complete at this time. The edition size for these large prints will be quite limited, 3-5 prints per image, and they will only be sold through the Dylan Ellis Gallery. However, part of the work flow of making the large ones involves first making a small one of about 5X7" in size, and my intention is to prepare limited editions in the smaller size for sale at a reasonable prince, either through the gallery or through my web site.

I am currently re-structuring my web site to change the nature of print offerings and this information on the limited edition smaller prints should be there in two or three weeks. Or please feel free to contact me directly.

Sandy

Jim Fitzgerald
30-Mar-2014, 20:47
Congrats and good luck to all of you on the East Coast. Nice to see that quality Carbon prints are getting their just due. Be sure to post details as I'd love to see the work if I can.

StoneNYC
31-Mar-2014, 08:16
Congrats and good luck to all of you on the East Coast. Nice to see that quality Carbon prints are getting their just due. Be sure to post details as I'd love to see the work if I can.

What is this about the East Coast? What did I mess I don't see anything about the East Coast....

Andrew O'Neill
31-Mar-2014, 11:38
Sounds great, Bob.
Stone, Toronto moved to the east coast. Didn't you hear??

StoneNYC
31-Mar-2014, 11:40
Sounds great, Bob.
Stone, Toronto moved to the east coast. Didn't you hear??

Now I'm even more confused....

Is this about the snowstorm we has today in Connecticut, USA?

Vaughn
31-Mar-2014, 11:42
Sort of like this view, but from the opposite direction:

http://strangemaps.files.wordpress.com/2007/02/steinberg-newyorker.jpg

Andrew O'Neill
31-Mar-2014, 11:49
Love it!

sanking
31-Mar-2014, 12:27
What is this about the East Coast? What did I mess I don't see anything about the East Coast....

That image of the car lost in palmettos was made about 200 feet from the Atlantic Ocean on an island off the coast of Georgia. That counts as East Coast, right?

On the New Yorker map the island would be just south and east of 9th Avenue.

Sandy

Steven Tribe
31-Mar-2014, 13:15
I think this is relevant here.

I found this (fabulous?) print by R.L Sleeth, which is described as a platinum print - but I think it looks like a Carbon transfer? Does anyone know this Pitsburgh gent (1910-20) and his original format?

Dave Wooten
31-Mar-2014, 13:22
[QUOTE=sanking;1125695]That image of the car lost in palmettos was made about 200 feet from the Atlantic Ocean on an island off the coast of Georgia. That counts as East Coast, right?

On the New Yorker map the island would be just south and east of 9th Avenue.

Sandy[/QUOTE

Ah yes, :)
That is where I get my morning bagel when I visit the East coast!

StoneNYC
31-Mar-2014, 13:58
Thought this was more appropriate... (Or inappropriate depending on where you live).

Though I wouldn't really think of anywhere below New York as "easy coast" it is, I just wouldn't consider that area, I've got to travel more I think...

http://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/04/01/dupaqaru.jpg

Andrew O'Neill
31-Mar-2014, 14:23
Ya! Canada got Alaska! Should've been ours anyways...:mad: Too busy drinking beer, I guess. What's "Canada's Mexico"?

StoneNYC
31-Mar-2014, 14:41
Ya! Canada got Alaska! Should've been ours anyways...:mad: Too busy drinking beer, I guess. What's "Canada's Mexico"?

Minnesota, or Wisconsin most likely... Lol

Andrew O'Neill
31-Mar-2014, 15:02
I guess that's where us snowbirds go for winter... pretty funny.

Vaughn
31-Mar-2014, 16:06
Yep, in the old trees is where I live!

Andrew O'Neill
31-Mar-2014, 17:40
I'm in Alaska! Did you know it rains 24/7 there in winter?

StoneNYC
31-Mar-2014, 17:45
I'm in Alaska! Did you know it rains 24/7 there in winter?

Rain? lol

Edit: sorry these are totally off-topic, and I will stop posting as I don't have any carbon prints to show :/

Kirk Gittings
31-Mar-2014, 17:53
I'm in Alaska! Did you know it rains 24/7 there in winter?

Hmm I was born in Alaska and lived there a few years. I don't remember that. We played outside all winter. I was in Anchorage are you in the South?

sanking
7-Apr-2014, 20:44
Another image from the island, called "Driftwood." This one is a 16" X 23" carbon on albumen sized Strathmore 500 Imperial rag paper.

Sandy

Andrew O'Neill
7-Apr-2014, 22:44
I was in Anchorage are you in the South?

Yes, really south... like Vancouver south :)

StoneNYC
8-Apr-2014, 01:04
Another image from the island, called "Driftwood." This one is a 16" X 23" carbon on albumen sized Strathmore 500 Imperial rag paper.

Sandy

Just amazing...

Gary Sommer
8-Apr-2014, 17:08
When you are from California, anything east of Reno is East Coast!

Very nice work, Sandy

Dave Wooten
8-Apr-2014, 17:29
Reno is farther west than L.A. California.

davehyams
9-Apr-2014, 16:54
Thats gotta be a sweet looking print Sandy, thanks

sanking
9-Apr-2014, 17:54
113553Yes, the prints on sized rag papers have an entirely different presence than those on baryta.

Here is another one, also 16" X 23" in size, printed from a digital negative, on 140 lb albumen sized Fabriano Artistico. I call it "Someone Loved Me", and it is part of my island series of Broken Promises.

Sandy

StoneNYC
10-Apr-2014, 04:22
Sandy, I'm going to stop complaining you, your stuff is too good! :)

Vaughn
10-Apr-2014, 10:35
Excellent, Sandy!

Vaughn

sanking
10-Apr-2014, 10:37
Stone,

I am glad you like the work.

It is important for me, and for others, to show good work with alternative printing processes. Many people seem to associate hand crafted photography with poor craftsmanship, inferior in some way to silver gelatin. There is really nothing more satisfying that coating your own paper or making your own emulsion and creating a fine print from raw materials, as it were. It is an enriching experience that makes you think as much about the means as the end.



Sandy

mdarnton
10-Apr-2014, 13:40
Yeah, Sandy, your work is incredibly inspirational. I never gave carbon a second thought until seeing the examples you put up here, and now I am all hot to try it myself! Most of the work I have seen with wet plates is so crappy that I had pretty much discarded the whole idea of traditional processes until I saw your work.

Jim Fitzgerald
10-Apr-2014, 17:53
I agree Sandy. Quality finished prints is where it's at. Something about a hand made carbon print. When it is right it sings!!! A lot of singing going on here.

Jeffrey Arthur
10-Apr-2014, 18:36
Amen to that!

Nathan Potter
10-Apr-2014, 20:06
Sandy the prints you've shown here appear to have a very long and detailed tonal range even though there are limitations in presenting a web image. In contradiction I see much other work as being quite high contrast and more lacking that long and detailed tonal range, again giving due consideration to the failures inherent in web images.

I'm thinking that your images here are maybe derived from Pyrocat processed negatives or otherwise divided development techniques that provide for both extended and detailed tonal ranges. It seems remarkable to me that such detail could be preserved through the digital internegative sequence then yield such results. Somehow there is some real mastery here that I don't see in some other Carbon images. But then I've never seen a real Carbon print.

I'm curious about the starting negative for your images shown here. What developer was used and what, for example, was the tonal range (density range) of the negatives? I think I remember that your digital negative material is Pictorico transparency (maybe the premium stuff) and you must also be preserving the tonal range through the digital negative process.

At first glance this is pretty astounding stuff and I'd move mountains to see some real prints. So please keep us informed about any exhibitions of your Carbon work that might come up. Great thanks for the tantalizing images shown here.

Nate Potter, Austin TX.

mdarnton
11-Apr-2014, 07:11
Yes, I'd love to see a shot of one of the big negs held up against a window or something so there would be some tonal context outside the neg. It would be very instructive. I suspect that Photoshop sucking every last bit of detail out of the original negs has a lot to do with the tasty toniness of the prints.

sanking
11-Apr-2014, 12:16
Hi Nate,

There is not one single thing that differentiates my carbon work from that of others. Proper image capture, whether that be with film or digital, is the beginning step beyond which there is no path. And the key here for me is very simple, expose with B&W film so that you will have detail and texture in the deepest shadows where you believe tone and texture are needed, and then develop so that the highlights have an appropriate density range for your process. With film I control highlight density with two-bath development, usually Pyrocat-HD. In the past I used more refined BTZS methods with minimal agitation development. But from my perspective two-bath development is a close to a silver bullet as it get with film, especially when you plan to scan the film and have some leeway in CI. Digital capture is a bit more complicated because you have to expose for the highlights, not the shadows, but you can do HDR bracketing to cover a wide range of light than would be possible with just one exposure. In any case, I don't usually bother with landscape photography for carbon printing unless the light is already a bit on the soft side. A lot of my work is also in IR, though since I tend to shoot in very low contrast lighting my IR prints don't scream contrast as is often the case. In fact, my goal is to just add a hint of IR to suggest something is unusual about the tonalities, not to a rub an IR look in your face.

The carbon process itself is capable of a very long exposure scale, much longer for example than even albumen or salted paper. Plus, you also have some POP effect with carbon since the dichromate darkens with exposure, which increases actinic filtration. This is generally a good thing but the effect also results in low contrast in the shadows. What is perhaps different about my work is that I am printing mostly with digital negatives so I am able to craft the tonal values to take maximum advantage of the process. Essentially there are two requirement for the ideal negative, one is that it must have a maximum density that matches the exposure scale of the process so that at Step 1 you can print paper white, and two, input and output values must match. It is really quite impossible to fully obtain both of these desired requirements with an in-camera negatives so with time I have become more and more interested with bringing my image files into the digital world where I can create prints that fit my vision. There are several viable ways to make digital negatives but the method that works best for me is the QuadToneRip program, which allows me to control which inks are used, and at what level, so that the required density range can be established, and then we can correct for linearity with curves or a linearize routine.

Thank you for appreciating the work.

Sandy

Andrew O'Neill
11-Apr-2014, 12:24
Very, very nice work, Sandy!

sanking
11-Apr-2014, 18:41
113647
Yes, I'd love to see a shot of one of the big negs held up against a window or something so there would be some tonal context outside the neg. It would be very instructive. I suspect that Photoshop sucking every last bit of detail out of the original negs has a lot to do with the tasty toniness of the prints.

You might be a bit disappointed, but here is a smaller negative (about 5X7") of the image used to make the Driftwood print.The scan picked up some noise and scratches not visible when printing.

This was printed with the QTR driver on an Epson R3000. The inks used are mostly PK, C, MK and LK.

Sandy

Andrew O'Neill
11-Apr-2014, 20:39
Sandy, is the film base blue?

Nathan Potter
11-Apr-2014, 20:39
Sandy, great thanks for the short discourse above. Quite clear now about your philosophy and process. I see the great flexibility that you have in controlling the tonal range of the digital negative and using QTR for that part of the process.

Nate Potter, Austin TX.

Andrew O'Neill
11-Apr-2014, 20:40
That must be the cyan bits in the negative that I see. At first I thought that was the film base...
QTR is great. I've been using it for a few years now.

mdarnton
11-Apr-2014, 20:41
Thanks for the neg! It looks denser than a film neg, but it sure has a lot of shadow detail! I guess the overall look can be deceptive because the real issue is UV opacity, though?

Tri Tran
12-Apr-2014, 08:56
Hi Sandy,
Both prints are outstanding. There is so much details for the first print but I like the "Someone Loved Me" . I 'm sure there is a lot of relief for the first one as the Dig Neg looks so good to me.Should we call it HDR DIGI neg :). Thanks for sharing your work.

sanking
13-Apr-2014, 18:09
Hi Sandy,
Both prints are outstanding. There is so much details for the first print but I like the "Someone Loved Me" . I 'm sure there is a lot of relief for the first one as the Dig Neg looks so good to me.Should we call it HDR DIGI neg :). Thanks for sharing your work.

Thanks Tri,

Yes, we might call the digital negatives HDR. This one has a DR of about log 2.6, low of .23, high of 2.83.

Actually, this print would have a huge amount of relief on glossy baryta, but I made it on albumen sized Fabriano Artistico cotton rag paper, which shows some relief but a very different kind than fixed out silver papers. But here is another print of the same image, this one just came out of the water and is still wet, as you might tell from the reflections. I usually just post images, thought some of you might want to see this for the work flow. For perspective, image size is 16"X23", on a sheet of paper that is about 21" X 26".

Sorry about color balance. The print is actually kind of mahogany brown, not this greenish color.

Sandy

mdarnton
13-Apr-2014, 18:24
Sepia on my screen, and discouragingly fine.

Tri Tran
13-Apr-2014, 22:53
Thanks Tri,

Yes, we might call the digital negatives HDR. This one has a DR of about log 2.6, low of .23, high of 2.83.

Actually, this print would have a huge amount of relief on glossy baryta, but I made it on albumen sized Fabriano Artistico cotton rag paper, which shows some relief but a very different kind than fixed out silver papers. But here is another print of the same image, this one just came out of the water and is still wet, as you might tell from the reflections. I usually just post images, thought some of you might want to see this for the work flow. For perspective, image size is 16"X23", on a sheet of paper that is about 21" X 26".

Sorry about color balance. The print is actually kind of mahogany brown, not this greenish color.

Sandy

Lovely. It looks so alive even on the monitor. The highlight cleared perfectly without losing any details. What's a beautiful print Sandy. Thanks for showing.

Brian C. Miller
14-Apr-2014, 07:00
Sorry about color balance. The print is actually kind of mahogany brown, not this greenish color.

It looks as described on my monitor. You have color calibrated your monitor, right?

Andrew O'Neill
14-Apr-2014, 10:13
Colour looks fine on mine, too.

sanking
15-Apr-2014, 14:39
Here is another 16" X23" carbon print from the Broken Promises series. The print is hanging next to its negative.

I started to ignore this shot, but then I got to thinking about the perverse humor of the guy who dropped the tire on the poor Datsun truck and thought about the statement it made about human nature.

Sandy

StoneNYC
15-Apr-2014, 16:43
Here is another 16" X23" carbon print from the Broken Promises series. The print is hanging next to its negative.

I started to ignore this shot, but then I got to thinking about the perverse humor of the guy who dropped the tire on the poor Datsun truck and thought about the statement it made about human nature.

Sandy

Poor Datsun... I have a Datsun 280ZX in my garage and no way I'll be putting a giant tire on it lol.

Also, this was a digi image that was made into a digital negative right? And then afterward contact printed?

sanking
15-Apr-2014, 17:04
Poor Datsun... I have a Datsun 280ZX in my garage and no way I'll be putting a giant tire on it lol.

Also, this was a digi image that was made into a digital negative right? And then afterward contact printed?

Correct, the original was digital capture, full frame DSLR. The digital file was adjusted, then printed as a negative with an Epson 7800 on Pictorico, and the negative was then contact printed to make the carbon print.

Sandy

StoneNYC
15-Apr-2014, 17:22
Correct, the original was digital capture, full frame DSLR. The digital file was adjusted, then printed as a negative with an Epson 7800 on Pictorico, and the negative was then contact printed to make the carbon print.

Sandy

Thanks Sandy,

That's pretty cool stuff, and here I was about to sell my digital camera ;)

I still may...

This is cool stuff! If only I had that insane printing equipment! :)

Andrew O'Neill
16-Apr-2014, 07:53
This is cool stuff! If only I had that insane printing equipment!

What insane printing equipment?

mdarnton
16-Apr-2014, 08:55
A tray, some Jello, india ink, a big piece of glass. It's high technology all the way! That's what attracted me to the process in the first place--I think we are going to eventually see the disappearance of all the relatively (compared with carbon) sophisticated technology we need to make silver prints from film. The idea of making something superior to silver with the help of easily available digital equipment plus a very simple set of [see first statement] is pretty seductive.

StoneNYC
16-Apr-2014, 09:50
What insane printing equipment?

Well for one... the printer he's using to print the massive negative....

113822

and the 16 inch wide rolls of transparency film to use for the huge printer...

113823

Not exactly in everyones budget... (EDIT: or in everyone's available space....I might be sleeping with the damn printer, cuddling with it perhaps... lol).

sanking
16-Apr-2014, 12:27
Stone,

The Epson 7800 is over a decade old. I bought it for $500 with a full set of inks and a roll of 24" X 100' Pictorico. Printing a 20X24" negative takes less than a dollar of ink, and the Pictorico by todays pricing is only about $2. (current price is $125 for 24" X 66'). Takes up some space, yes, but anybody who has a budget for large format lenses could own a ten year old Epson printer!

But you don't have to print carbon with digital negatives. Lots of people here making carbon prints with in-camera negatives, even with inexpensive x-ray film, Tri Tran, Vaughn, Jim F., Andy, Eddie, etc. Tri is even making carbons with wet plate collodions.

And if you like you can use the sun to print. I am testing a new sensitizing agent today with direct exposures of the sun, using analog negatives.

Sandy

Andrew O'Neill
16-Apr-2014, 13:09
Yes, you can produce carbon prints by very simple means... once you get over the learning curve. I produce using both digital negs and in-camera and digital negs. Leaning more and more to digi negs for their seemingly unlimited creative potential. I have an Epson 4000 that is 10 years old I bought from my school cheap. I use refillable ink cartridges which save me a lot of money. For transparency, I use what is called Silkjet. It's exactly the same as Pictorico, I'm sure, just a different label (made in Japan). I pick it up at a local screen printing supplier.

Andy

Jim Fitzgerald
16-Apr-2014, 21:00
I use only in camera negatives and yes you can use x-ray film and a contact frame in the sun. Digital negative one day? Once you get set up the cost is only time. I even use x ray film as my reusable tissue substrate. Carbon is an amazing process for those who dedicate the time to understand what is going on. :-)

Andrew O'Neill
29-Apr-2014, 14:49
Digital negative. Originally captured on TMY-2 8x10. Huge circular saw blade at abandoned shake and shingle mill near Maple Ridge, BC.

andreios
30-Apr-2014, 02:37
Looks like a beautiful print, Andrew...

Andrew O'Neill
30-Apr-2014, 12:30
Yes, it's pretty nice andreios. Relief is very very subtle.

Andrew O'Neill
30-Apr-2014, 15:16
Digital negative made from DSLR capture of South Lawn Bld., Riverview Hospital. Went a little heavy with Venetian Red in the glop, but it doesn't look too bad.

Vaughn
30-Apr-2014, 15:55
Beautiful, Andrew!

D-tach
30-Apr-2014, 16:19
Digital negative made from DSLR capture of South Lawn Bld., Riverview Hospital. Went a little heavy with Venetian Red in the glop, but it doesn't look too bad.

Damn that's nice! And so symbolic...

Andrew O'Neill
30-Apr-2014, 17:25
Thanks guys. Unfortunately the government has slowly been shutting this mental health facility down. Some of these buildings are old and quite interesting. It also has an amazing arboretum which is a delight to photograph. Won't be long until the grounds are covered in condos.

Curt
1-May-2014, 15:16
It is a wonderful image Andrew, Venetion Red is subtle looking on my iPad Air, I would say it just right!

sanking
2-May-2014, 06:41
It is a wonderful image Andrew, Venetion Red is subtle looking on my iPad Air, I would say it just right!


Same here, a very elegant image with beautiful light, with just hint of red, definitely not too heavy on my monitor.

But choose your red carefully! You remember those guys who sacked the Orthodox capital of Constantinople under the guise of a crusade against infidels? Those were the Venetians! In protest I switched from Venetian Red to Oxide Red

Sandy

Andrew O'Neill
2-May-2014, 06:57
Thank you, Curt! That's pretty funny, Sandy... I think I have some Oxide Red kicking around...:D

gth
3-May-2014, 18:23
Where IN CANADA do I purchase the recommended gelatin for Carbon Transfer

/gth

sanking
3-May-2014, 18:47
Where IN CANADA do I purchase the recommended gelatin for Carbon Transfer

/gth

At workshops I have done in Toronto the gelatin was supplied by Nymoc Products Co.

24 McGee Street, Toronto, Ontario, M4M 2K9, Canada
Phone: +1 416 465-1929

Sandy

Andrew O'Neill
3-May-2014, 19:00
Nymoc is a great place to deal with. I have been able to get whatever I needed. Email John Burrows: nymoc@bellnet.ca

gth
3-May-2014, 19:52
Ok, thanks… what grade…. or bloom…. do I ask for?

-gth


At workshops I have done in Toronto the gelatin was supplied by Nymoc Products Co.

24 McGee Street, Toronto, Ontario, M4M 2K9, Canada
Phone: +1 416 465-1929

Sandy

Vaughn
4-May-2014, 00:16
Where IN CANADA do I purchase the recommended gelatin for Carbon Transfer

/gth

If one is starting out and not making large batches of glop, then your supermarket has the gelatin -- Knox Unflavored Gelatin. Works great and the Knox comes in 7gram packets -- no weighing required. Used it for years until I started buying in in 5 pound bags online (Bulk Foods).

ndg
4-May-2014, 08:49
"Chains" - a carbon transfer print
http://nanadadzie.com/darkroom/pix/Chains-02.jpg

Original image captured with dSLR.
Dig neg on Pictorico.
Carbon tissue with Black Cat India ink.
Image on Fabriano Tiepolo paper sized with Gesso.

sanking
4-May-2014, 17:28
"Chains" - a carbon transfer print
. . . sized with Gesso.

You sized with only Gesso? Did you not get any blisters, shedding or frilling in development?


Sandy

ndg
4-May-2014, 17:33
You sized with only Gesso? Did you not get any blisters, shedding or frilling in development?


Sandy

No I didn't. I have printed 2 images with gesso-sized paper so far. The first one developed unevenly, but no blisters, shedding or frills. I like the matte look. Also the print does not curl.

sanking
4-May-2014, 17:41
Ok, thanks… what grade…. or bloom…. do I ask for?

-gth

For carbon printing you want a gelatin with a Bloom over 200 but less than 300. The Knox gelatin that Vaughn mentioned has a Bloom of about 225 according to net sources, the Nymoc gelatin we used in Toronto had a Bloom of 250 as I recall, and the gelatin from www. bulkfood.com that some carbon printers use has a Bloom of around 250.

Bloom is usually an indicator of strength, the higher the better. However, some people have reported trouble (fogging, veiling of highlights) with gelatins with Bloom over 290.

Edible gelatins are generally very consistent in quality because they must meet rigid specifications for human consumption established by local, state and federal agencies.

Some photographic gelatins will work fine for carbon, but the specifications to which they are made are not necessary for carbon printing.


Sandy

sanking
4-May-2014, 19:23
No I didn't. I have printed 2 images with gesso-sized paper so far. The first one developed unevenly, but no blisters, shedding or frills. I like the matte look. Also the print does not curl.

Was your size with traditional gesso, or acrylic gesso?



Sandy

ndg
5-May-2014, 03:05
Was your size with traditional gesso, or acrylic gesso?



Sandy

Acrylic gesso.

Andrew O'Neill
5-May-2014, 10:45
Did you use it right after it dried, or let it cure for a few days, or zap it in a drymount press?

ndg
5-May-2014, 13:16
Did you use it right after it dried, or let it cure for a few days, or zap it in a drymount press?

I let it cure overnight.

Andrew O'Neill
5-May-2014, 14:48
Sorry to keep hammering you with questions, ndg, but naturally you're diluting the gesso and applying with a roller?

ndg
5-May-2014, 16:04
No problem. I apply it undiluted with a foam brush. I used it diluted for gum prints and didn't like the look. Prefer it undiluted.

gth
13-May-2014, 21:58
At workshops I have done in Toronto the gelatin was supplied by Nymoc Products Co.

24 McGee Street, Toronto, Ontario, M4M 2K9, Canada
Phone: +1 416 465-1929

Sandy

I ordered from John Burrows at this business and received excellent service. No problems, fast delivery, highly recommended!

Thanks!

/gth

Andrew O'Neill
13-May-2014, 22:02
Glad to hear it. I've always been a happy customer. He sends me what I need and says just send a cheque when it arrives.

grzybu
15-May-2014, 01:19
My first more or less successful print done without many fails, from fresh glop. Just one test print before to be sure glop is good.

https://farm3.staticflickr.com/2910/14187691782_d5d2d13857_o.jpg

I'm glad to have working glop + paper recipe. No blisters, no bubbles. Pigment is pure soot which I've found really easy to mix with clean glop.
Now I'm using Epson Semiglossy inkjet paper. It's very nice, but feels plastic. I've bought one B1 size sheet of Fabriano Rosapina paper and it feels very nice, with smooth, almost velvet like surface.
I have to size it before and I'm not sure what to use: gelatin or some acrylic media? I guess I'll try both.

sanking
15-May-2014, 21:27
My first more or less successful print done without many fails, from fresh glop. Just one test print before to be sure glop is good.

https://farm3.staticflickr.com/2910/14187691782_d5d2d13857_o.jpg

I'm glad to have working glop + paper recipe. No blisters, no bubbles. Pigment is pure soot which I've found really easy to mix with clean glop.
Now I'm using Epson Semiglossy inkjet paper. It's very nice, but feels plastic. I've bought one B1 size sheet of Fabriano Rosapina paper and it feels very nice, with smooth, almost velvet like surface.
I have to size it before and I'm not sure what to use: gelatin or some acrylic media? I guess I'll try both.


Nice print, congratulations on use of pure soot. I am surprised that it worked so well.

Many inkjet papers have microporous surface that causes slight veiling of the highlights. Best test paper is RC photo paper, just fix it out and dry, then ready to use for carbon.

I recommend you wait until you have good mastery of the carbon process before sizing your own papers. Sizing papers is a challenge to itself and will vastly complicate your carbon printing.

Sandy

grzybu
15-May-2014, 23:56
I was afraid of mixing pure soot with glop, but looks like one I buy in alt photo store works really nice. Just add some clear glop to powder, mix nice mud and add it to the glop. Actualy it's easier than watercolor paint from tube.
I'm using two inkjet papers: one really cheap (5$ for 15 A4 sheets), glossy paper for test prints. It works very well and even without save edge there is no frilling. It really sucks gelatin. The only problem is that it's very thin so it curls pretty bad when dry. But it's good for test prints.
Second, so far my final paper is Epson Semiglossy paper. It's heavy enough (240g) so it doesn't curl when dry and has very nice surface when you look at it. In touch it feels plastic. I don't see any problems in highlitghs, but it needs safe edge.
I'll make more prints before I try sizing papers.
I've also bought recently some synthetic paper (not Yupo) and now making tissues feels almost like cheating compared to using washed out OHP foil. Really nice stuff and much more durable than foil too.

Andrew O'Neill
16-May-2014, 07:44
I've mixed charcoal and graphite and made some decent prints a few years ago. Graphite is oily so one has to watch how much is put in the glop otherwise you get oily swirlies on the top of the tissue.

glpozza
20-May-2014, 05:14
Hello. Maybe some of you could help me with an issue. Why am I getting this "line" arround my carbon prints? It was sugested in another forum that the inkjet paper I'm using could be the reason, as it could also be causing "fogging" in the highlights. I'm using 4% potassium dichromate and, as you can see, my contrast is really low. I'm avoiding using fixed photo paper for the high costs (at least until I get the process right).115645

sanking
20-May-2014, 06:58
Hello. Maybe some of you could help me with an issue. Why am I getting this "line" arround my carbon prints? It was sugested in another forum that the inkjet paper I'm using could be the reason, as it could also be causing "fogging" in the highlights. I'm using 4% potassium dichromate and, as you can see, my contrast is really low. I'm avoiding using fixed photo paper for the high costs (at least until I get the process right).115645

Based on my own experience with inkjet papers the likely cause of the veil or fog line is the paper. Many inkjet papers have a microporous top layer that can trap soluble gelatin that should wash out. The result is not only the line around the print, but also general low contrast in the image, which also seems to be the case with your carbon print.

It is also possible that your tissue has become partially insoluble from age or some form of contamination. This could also explain the fog line around the edges of the print.

I would recommend you avoid inkjet papers. Try Yupo, a synthentic paper with a non microporous base, or try to find some RC paper (can be color or B&W) and fix it out to use as a support for carbon.

Sandy

glpozza
20-May-2014, 09:28
Sadly I can't find synthetic papers were I live, and RC paper, even expired, is too expensive. It's amazing how much people will charge for their trash after they realize you are interested in it. I'm thinking about sizing art paper. Any recomendations?

Andrew O'Neill
25-May-2014, 13:50
I like working with acrylic medium sized art papers. I usually use gloss but sometimes use a matte finish. I always dilute the acrylic 1+1, and roll on 4 coats (allow to dry between coats). Then I cure it in a dry mount press and use immediately. If you don't have a dry mount press, you should let it sit for a few days.
Gelatin sizing (with hardener) also works very well.

glpozza
27-May-2014, 07:37
Thank you. I the meantime I've tested acrylic gesso. Got really good results. I've fixed the brush marks and will focus in the contrast.

glpozza
28-May-2014, 06:11
Indeed, but where I live it got to ridiculous values. Since the "hype" of film photography, prices skyrocketed. Not only expired and not only photographic paper. As an exemple, I just bought a 4x5 film box from freestyle. Even after paying 70% in import taxes, the final price was 1/4 of the same box here.

StoneNYC
28-May-2014, 13:19
Indeed, but where I live it got to ridiculous values. Since the "hype" of film photography, prices skyrocketed. Not only expired and not only photographic paper. As an exemple, I just bought a 4x5 film box from freestyle. Even after paying 70% in import taxes, the final price was 1/4 of the same box here.

What hype? Where do you live?

glpozza
29-May-2014, 04:57
Brazil. I believe there is another thread with a list of word people hate to hear in photography (...or was it in apug? ). Mine would have to be lomography. Since they are paying the equivalent of hundreds of dolars for a plastic camera, why not overcharge for everything related to film photography?
But anyway, I've reduced the thickness of my tissues, reducing to half of the gloop I've been using for the same lenght of paper. I'll also try a 2% solution. If it works I'll post the results here.

glpozza
2-Jun-2014, 08:00
116181
Now with contrast. I've simply reduced the tissue thickness by 50%.

sanking
14-Jun-2014, 10:49
116735I have been pretty busy the past several months with a house re-modeling project and workshops, but got around today to re-printing an image that I made several years ago and never printed at this size.

The print is a carbon transfer from a digital negative. The image area of the print is 17" X 23" and is on Strathmore Imperial Rag 500 paper 21" X 26", sized with albumen over gelatin. The tissue was made primarily of carbon black pigment, with a bit of dark brown and red oxide. Original image capture of the Hen and Chicken plant was with an IR converted Micro 4/3 digital camera. The negative was printed with an Epson 7800 on Pictorico Premium OHP, using a special QTR profile that I wrote for my carbon digital negatives. I chose the rough texture of the Imperial Rag paper for this image since it breaks the lines and renders a more painterly look which seems appropriate for this simple image.

Sandy

andreios
14-Jun-2014, 11:21
This is simply wonderful, Sandy...

sanking
14-Jun-2014, 14:24
This is simply wonderful, Sandy...

Thank you Andreios.

Sandy

rcmartins
14-Jun-2014, 15:51
Wow....breathtaking....
raul


I have been pretty busy the past several months with a house re-modeling project and workshops, but got around today to re-printing an image that I made several years ago and never printed at this size.

The print is a carbon transfer from a digital negative. The image area of the print is 17" X 23" and is on Strathmore Imperial Rag 500 paper 21" X 26", sized with albumen over gelatin. The tissue was made primarily of carbon black pigment, with a bit of dark brown and red oxide. Original image capture of the Hen and Chicken plant was with an IR converted Micro 4/3 digital camera. The negative was printed with an Epson 7800 on Pictorico Premium OHP, using a special QTR profile that I wrote for my carbon digital negatives. I chose the rough texture of the Imperial Rag paper for this image since it breaks the lines and renders a more painterly look which seems appropriate for this simple image.

Sandy

Andrew O'Neill
14-Jun-2014, 17:30
Lovely! So Sandy, have you now settled on albumen over gelatine for sizing?

sanking
14-Jun-2014, 18:17
Lovely! So Sandy, have you now settled on albumen over gelatine for sizing?

Raul,

Muito obrigado!

Andrew,

Appreciate your comment. For the larger prints on cotton rag papers that must be sized I have more or less settled on albumen over gelatin sizing, for a couple of reasons. First, the two layers of size give a very dependable surface for transfer. Assuming the rest of the work flow is OK I am getting almost 100% success rate with the double size, a bit hit and miss with only the thin gelatin layer. And second, the image on albumen is quite distinctive in that there is very little gloss differential, as you might get with a thick layer of gelatin, and the albumen adds quite a bit of sheen. Give it a try! It is pretty easy to apply the albumen coating if you already have a sheet of gelatin sized art paper.

For images that have a lot of detail and texture the look of a carbon on fixed out glossy or matte silver paper is still very intriguing to me.

Sandy

rdenney
12-Dec-2014, 06:44
This belongs in the new image thread where it can be appreciated.

Rick "hoping to see more" Denney

Andrew O'Neill
12-Dec-2014, 08:33
I tried the albumen over gelatin in September, and I was quite pleased with it. It seemed to grab a wee bit more detail in the highlights. I only worked with one image, so I cannot confirm this. A few of my prints for the Japan show are on that surface. After reading the discussion on Sandy's Carbon Yahoo group, about combining gelatin with albumen in one coat, I will give that a go when I get back from Japan.

Jim Fitzgerald
12-Dec-2014, 09:30
Sandy, beautiful image! Coating art papers is one of those things I have to try. I'll have to look up the discussion as to how to do it. Keep up the beautiful work.

sanking
12-Dec-2014, 10:23
Sandy, beautiful image! Coating art papers is one of those things I have to try. I'll have to look up the discussion as to how to do it. Keep up the beautiful work.

Thanks, Jim. There is some information on paper sizing in the files section of the carbon forum on Yahoo. There is a lot of potential to create different and interesting surface effects with various kinds of sizings and papers.

Attached is a recent carbon print I made from a trip to Spain in October. The image area is 16" X 23" and the print is on a 19" X 26" sheet of Strathmore Imperial Rag, albumen over gelatin sized. The original capture is digital IR, the place is near Estaca de Bares in Galicia, in northwestern Spain.

Sandy

Will S
12-Dec-2014, 10:36
Thanks, Jim. There is some information on paper sizing in the files section of the carbon forum on Yahoo. There is a lot of potential to create different and interesting surface effects with various kinds of sizings and papers.

Attached is a recent carbon print I made from a trip to Spain in October. The image area is 16" X 23" and the print is on a 19" X 26" sheet of Strathmore Imperial Rag, albumen over gelatin sized. The original capture is digital IR, the place is near Estaca de Bares in Galicia, in northwestern Spain.

Sandy

Absolutely lovely. I just bought some carbon tissue from b&s and can't wait to try it. Your prints are really spectacular! - Will

Jim Fitzgerald
12-Dec-2014, 10:49
Sandy, great images and I'll be sure to check out the files section. BTW do you find that the highlights are easier to clear? Or as I suspect is this a combination of factors.

Thanks.

ndg
12-Dec-2014, 11:21
Sandy, nice image! Great to see some new work from you.

sanking
12-Dec-2014, 11:25
Sandy, great images and I'll be sure to check out the files section. BTW do you find that the highlights are easier to clear? Or as I suspect is this a combination of factors.

Thanks.

Jim,

If the art paper is adequately sized there should be no difference in staining compared to the use of other final supports.
However, papers sized with only one coating of albumen by floating will probably stain. Good highlight clearing is primarily a process issue and should not be affected by the type of sizing, assuming the sizing is sufficient.

Sandy

Jim Fitzgerald
12-Dec-2014, 12:21
Jim,

If the art paper is adequately sized there should be no difference in staining compared to the use of other final supports.
However, papers sized with only one coating of albumen by floating will probably stain. Good highlight clearing is primarily a process issue and should not be affected by the type of sizing, assuming the sizing is sufficient.

Sandy

Sandy, thanks. This is what I thought and wanted to be sure. I appreciate it.

Peter Lewin
12-Dec-2014, 13:53
Sandy: That is a beautiful image! The only downside is that one could use it to re-open the argument about why in this digital age we still bother with LF cameras :roll eyes:. (But I can't really be upset with you, I recently switched from PMK to your Pyrocat HD, and really like it.) Anyway, forget my attempts at humor, it is a wonderful image.

sanking
12-Dec-2014, 15:17
Sandy, nice image! Great to see some new work from you.

Hi Nana,

Thanks, and congratulations on your work with carbon. I am glad to see that you worked through the process issues and are making good carbon print.

Sandy

ndg
12-Dec-2014, 15:21
Hi Nana,

Thanks, and congratulations on your work with carbon. I am glad to see that you worked through the process issues and are making good carbon print.

Sandy

Thanks, Sandy! Still ways to go though!

sanking
12-Dec-2014, 15:25
Sandy: That is a beautiful image! The only downside is that one could use it to re-open the argument about why in this digital age we still bother with LF cameras :roll eyes:. (But I can't really be upset with you, I recently switched from PMK to your Pyrocat HD, and really like it.) Anyway, forget my attempts at humor, it is a wonderful image.

Hi Peter,

Glad you have found Pyrocat-HD. Are you mixing your own?

I appreciate the humor. However, there will always be a place for both film, and for the LF experience. I did not use film for that shot, but it was made with what I consider LF working procedures, i.e. camera on a tripod, use of movements to control focus and perspective, and resolution similar to what you would get with 4X5 film with a drum scan at 4000 dpi.

That said, one day I plan to go back to making 5X7 color separations on B&W film, but this time in the studio rather than landscapes as I did three decades ago.

Sandy

sanking
23-Dec-2014, 19:27
"Bend of the Miño"

A 16X23" carbon transfer print on fixed out Varycon KG surface paper. Digital IR capture of about 90 mp, with 65mm MC Super Angulon, made in October of 2014, in Galicia, Spain. The KG surface is matte, but with a bit more sheen than most other matte papers.

Print made from a digital negative produced with a special QTR profile for the Epson 7800 (available in the Files section of the carbon Yahoo forum).

Sandy

ndg
23-Dec-2014, 20:13
"Bend of the Miño"

A 16X23" carbon transfer print on fixed out Varycon KG surface paper. Digital IR capture of about 90 mp, made in October of 2014, in Galicia, Spain. The KG surface is matte, but with a bit more sheen than most other matte papers.

Print made from a digital negative produced with a special QTR profile for the Epson 7800 (available in the Files section of the carbon Yahoo forum).

Sandy

Wow!

Jim Fitzgerald
23-Dec-2014, 21:10
Sandy, beautiful. The Varycon Matte paper is one of my favorites. I got as much as I could before they went under.

StoneNYC
23-Dec-2014, 21:23
"Bend of the Miño"

A 16X23" carbon transfer print on fixed out Varycon KG surface paper. Digital IR capture of about 90 mp, with 65mm MC Super Angulon, made in October of 2014, in Galicia, Spain. The KG surface is matte, but with a bit more sheen than most other matte papers.

Print made from a digital negative produced with a special QTR profile for the Epson 7800 (available in the Files section of the carbon Yahoo forum).

Sandy

Wow sandy that's really cool!

sanking
28-Dec-2014, 20:28
A 6X9" carbon transfer print on gelatin sized Fabriano Artistico paper. Made from a digital negative from a new generation QTR profile created for the Epson R3000. The original capture was with a Sony a7r with 35mm Zeiss lens, exposed at 1/125 of a second at f/2.8, with ASA setting of 1600.

This image also looks nice printed at 12X18" with Cone K7 Warm Neutral ink on Hahneumühle Photo Rag. Inkjet printing on matte papers is a beautiful media for images that have a wide range of middle and upper high tonal values. These type of images are relatively hard to print in carbon, carbon loves lower tonal values and texture and detail.

Sandy

Dan Quan
29-Dec-2014, 08:21
A 6X9" carbon transfer print on gelatin sized Fabriano Artistico paper. Made from a digital negative from a new generation QTR profile created for the Epson R3000. The original capture was with a Sony a7r with 35mm Zeiss lens, exposed at 1/125 of a second at f/2.8, with ASA setting of 1600.

This image also looks nice printed at 12X18" with Cone K7 Warm Neutral ink on Hahneumühle Photo Rag. Inkjet printing on matte papers is a beautiful media for images that have a wide range of middle and upper high tonal values. These type of images are relatively hard to print in carbon, carbon loves lower tonal values and texture and detail.

Sandy
These are just lovely on my monitor! I'd love to see some in person, do you exhibit in Santa Fe, Taos or anywhere in NM?

sanking
29-Dec-2014, 09:12
These are just lovely on my monitor! I'd love to see some in person, do you exhibit in Santa Fe, Taos or anywhere in NM?

Thanks for appreciating the work.

And sorry, I don't exhibit anywhere in NM. Most of the work in this thread is fairly new and has not been seen anywhere, apart from a few prints that were part of an exhibition recently at a number of sites in China.

Sandy

andreios
29-Dec-2014, 10:18
Some fantastic prints of late...
As for the Varycon matte paper - it is for me a sad thing that you use it as a support for carbon as it is one of my favourite papers for lith printing - really a unique reaction that could not be imitated with any other paper...

Jim Fitzgerald
29-Dec-2014, 19:25
Some fantastic prints of late...
As for the Varycon matte paper - it is for me a sad thing that you use it as a support for carbon as it is one of my favourite papers for lith printing - really a unique reaction that could not be imitated with any other paper...

Why is it sad? If you make a beautiful print does it matter if the print is on the paper or in the paper? Should make no difference I feel. It is sad that it is no longer made.

ndg
29-Dec-2014, 23:09
Jim, I get Andrej. "Lithable" papers are very hard to come by these days. On the other hand, there are more options available as final support for carbon transfer prints. To fix out and use a rare "lithable" paper for a carbon print, makes a lith printer sad. It has nothing to do with the beauty of the carbon print.

Jim Fitzgerald
29-Dec-2014, 23:27
I'm not questioning Andrej. There are many papers available for carbon prints and I agree. The right paper for the image is the paper that is the right paper. We need to teach him carbon :-)

koraks
30-Dec-2014, 00:54
I think he has already warmed up to the idea, he's just gathering the courage to proceed with it ;)

andreios
30-Dec-2014, 02:05
I would like nothing (well, except for some lith... :)) more than to devote my time to carbon transfer, Jim... My problem is that in my attempts I discovered that it needs quite a lot of time in a sequence of several days - which with a full time job a family with three small kids is very difficult to manage... With lith it is a one-night affair when I have time and strength. For kallitypes and such I can prepare the paper a day or half a day ahead and spend a happy night printing but with preparing glop, pouring tissue, sensitizing and printing it requires a number of nights in sequence which is could put a serious strain on me...

koraks
30-Dec-2014, 02:39
Oh, but you can do a tissue making session one day, leave the tissue out to dry and take it off the line two days later (or any other given number), then store the tissue flattened under a pile of books until you decide to use it. Prepared but unsensitized tissue keeps well for, well, virtually forever. From sensitizing to hanging a print to dry needs to take only two hours or so; perhaps even less if your sensitized tissue dries quickly. It's a laboreous process, but it doesn't require much more time in a single session than a darkroom session. You'll just produce less prints in the same amount of time.

andreios
30-Dec-2014, 06:06
Oh, but you can do a tissue making session one day, leave the tissue out to dry and take it off the line two days later (or any other given number), then store the tissue flattened under a pile of books until you decide to use it. Prepared but unsensitized tissue keeps well for, well, virtually forever. From sensitizing to hanging a print to dry needs to take only two hours or so; perhaps even less if your sensitized tissue dries quickly. It's a laboreous process, but it doesn't require much more time in a single session than a darkroom session. You'll just produce less prints in the same amount of time.

Well, in previous attempts I have been working with small amount of glop and only a couple of tissues at one time. The other day I have been studying how long could I keep a tissue and I will give it a try the way you suggest.
Also I've managed to get a DAS (or whatever the name is) to try making the tissue sensitive without the need of another step.
Anyway, once my tests of the recently finished new UV lightsource are successfully finished I am determined to give it another go.

koraks
30-Dec-2014, 06:20
Sounds like you're good to go! I generally make about 500ml of glop at a time, which is sufficient for over 20 A5-sized tissues. I like this small format for messing about. The fact that carbon printing is quite cheap only adds to the fun. I haven't tried DAS; so far I've stuck with dichromate.

sanking
30-Dec-2014, 08:11
Well, in previous attempts I have been working with small amount of glop and only a couple of tissues at one time. The other day I have been studying how long could I keep a tissue and I will give it a try the way you suggest.
Also I've managed to get a DAS (or whatever the name is) to try making the tissue sensitive without the need of another step.
Anyway, once my tests of the recently finished new UV lightsource are successfully finished I am determined to give it another go.

If my goal were making color carbon tissue with pre-sensitized tissue I would use DAS. However, for printing in monochrome carbon I find DAS very limiting in that the contrast of the material is "set" when you make it. This means you must make a negative that exactly matches the contrast of the tissue. When you use tissue that is not pre-sensitized you adjust for the contrast of the negative. And sensitizing adds very little time to the work flow. I sensitize with a roller and dry the tissue with a fan. At 45% RH the tissue is dry and ready to print in about 60-75 minutes.

What would you rather work with? Silver paper of a fixed contrast, or Variable contrast silver paper? The difference between DAS pre-sensitized tissue and tissue that is spirit sensitized for use at a specific time is comparable.

There are many other process considerations that make dichromate preferable to DAS for high quality monochrome printing. For example, DAS sensitized tissue takes longer to expose, and penetration of the light into the tissue does not extend as far, limiting relief potential.

The main issue with carbon is that print making must be done in discret stages, and sequential, so the entire process from tissue making to final print could take several days. However, once the tissue itself has been made, and the final support prepared, making a good print only takes about 1.5 -2.5 hours, depending on drying conditions. And most of that time is not active so you can be doing something else while waiting for the next step.

Many people are looking for instant gratification. Carbon is not a good process for that type of person.

Sandy

brucep
30-Dec-2014, 08:50
[QUOTE=sanking;

For example, DAS sensitized tissue takes longer to expose, and penetration of the light into the tissue does not extend as far, limiting relief

Sandy[/QUOTE]

Do you have any reference for the penetration statement, or is it from your experimentation?

Thanks
Bruce

andreios
30-Dec-2014, 09:06
Sandy, thank you for your input. I will try to make it work for me with dichromate. The analogy to graded / VC paper makes sense to me.
My darkroom is rather cold at this time of year so I maybe need to think about a dryer of some sort.. Isn't there more risk of dust when drying the tissue in this way?
Anyway, I'll let you all know how it goes.

sanking
30-Dec-2014, 09:30
Do you have any reference for the penetration statement, or is it from your experimentation?

Thanks
Bruce

So far as I know there is no relevant literature where penetration of DAS is compared to penetration of dichromate, thus the only available references are based on the practical experience of the very few who have actually experimented with the two sensitizers. My experience with DAS for printing on paper has indicated the following.

1. At comparable printing speeds DAS gives a much lower contrast image than dichromate. One can lower the strength of DAS to gain contrast, but at considerable loss of sensitivity. Since exposures with carbon/dichromate are very long, the additional time required by DAS is to me highly inconvenient.

2.Complete clearing of paper is very difficult, in fact I have never found a way to do it as there has always been a slight stain left after processing DAS sensitized tissue.

DAS would be very practical for thin tissue developed on polyester or polyvinyl supports, as with color carbon for example, where we assemble several thin reliefs to form the image. It does not seem to be practical for working with thick carbon tissue and final paper supports.

It is of course entirely possible that solutions might be found in the future to the problems I have encountered in my experiments with DAS, or indeed, the solutions may have already been found and I just don't know about them. If so, I am open to changing my mind about the practical use DAS for making monochrome carbon prints with good relief on paper supports.

Sandy

koraks
30-Dec-2014, 09:45
My darkroom is rather cold at this time of year so I maybe need to think about a dryer of some sort.. Isn't there more risk of dust when drying the tissue in this way?

I was quite worried about dust myself as well, since I have two cats and vacuuming isn't exactly my hobby. However, that fear has so far proved to be unjustified. When pouring tissue, I immediately cover the tissue with a piece of bent cardboard and let the tissue set (takes only a couple of minutes). I then transfer the tissue to another room where I let it dry horizontally for about an hour, sometimes uncovered. I then hang the tissues to dry on a clothesline in the same room and let them dry for another 36-48 hours. The only visible dust-like artifacts I have had (which were a handful, if even that) found their way into the glop when pouring. Other than I had expected, the small kind of dust that tends to fly about inside the house hasn't had any visible impact so far. Only fairly large particles (hairs, and I somehow got a pepper seed in my glop once) show up. The kind of dust you get on negatives is not an issue at all in my (limited) experience.

koraks
1-Jan-2015, 11:20
http://www.koraks.nl/galleries/prints/BVCP141_01.jpg
Rodenstock Ysarex 150/4.5 on 4x5" TMX in Rodinal. Epson 4990 scan, printed on Esselte transparency with Epson 3880 and Cone color inks. Carbon print on Schut A5-sized paper, gelatin sized. Talens India ink.

sanking
10-Jan-2015, 08:45
http://www.koraks.nl/galleries/prints/BVCP141_01.jpg
Rodenstock Ysarex 150/4.5 on 4x5" TMX in Rodinal. Epson 4990 scan, printed on Esselte transparency with Epson 3880 and Cone color inks. Carbon print on Schut A5-sized paper, gelatin sized. Talens India ink.

Koraks,

Nice print.

Curious about the UV blocking of the Cone color inks? Do they block any better than the Epson K3 inks?


Sandy

koraks
12-Jan-2015, 08:05
Thanks, Sandy. I reprinted the image over the weekend and apart from a few bubbles (some in the tissue that emerged upon pouring and some transfer bubbles I haven't figured out yet), it came out nicer. I used more pigment (6% w/v Amsterdam acrylic lamp black) creating more density.

Sadly, I haven't run an in-depth comparison between the Epson and the Jon Cone ink sets, so take my comments with a significant grain of salt. I switched over between these ink sets gradually as the Epson inks ran out. During the process, I haven't encountered anything particular either in color prints or in making digital negatives. I'm inclined to think that these ink sets are for most purposes equivalent. I did notice that some of the Cone inks appear to have a slightly different hue as I filled the cartridges, but these differences don't seem to affect the actual prints made. Careful measurement should turn up some minute differences, but I doubt anyone will be able to distinguish them visually. As for UV blocking power, I can only go by the negatives I use for carbon and cyanotype (so far). I notice no apparent differences between the earlier negatives I printed with the Epson inks and the later ones with the Cone inks.

In both instances, UV blocking power is limited in comparison with silver negatives and probably the carbon-based B&W inksets purposely developed for digital negatives, but I haven't tried those. For carbon printing, I arrived at the following combination that works pretty well:
* Jon Cone ink set, using yellow and photo black inks (using the Epson driver in advanced B&W mode), color density (CD) +40% (-18% for cyanotypes)
* Philips face tanner as a UV light source, positioned at 30cm from the printing surface (4x15W fluorescent UV tanning tube)
* Tissue formulation: 8-10% w/v gelatin, sugar: 50-80% of the gelatin weight, 5-6% w/v Amsterdam acrylic lamp black paint (seems to be similar to 4-5% Talens India ink, but I always seem to get get mottled and uneven prints with that particular ink) and a few ml of spiritus/denatured alcohol for the bubbles. I don't use glycerine and deal with the significant curling by storing the dry tissues under a stack of books. Note the very high pigment concentration, which turned out the only way to get convincing blacks while retaining sufficient contrast in the prints, suggesting that these digital negatives are very flat in comparison with silver negatives.
* Sensitizer: ammonium dichromate, 6% stock dilution in (rather hard) tap water, further diluted to 1% with ca. 1+1 water+acetone. I use 5ml for an A5-sized print (ca. 7.6x5.8" allowing for a handling strip) , so roughly 10ml for an 8x10" surface. This is quite close to your recommendations in your unblinkingeye process description. I brush sensitize with a foam brush and virtually all of the sensitizer finds its way into the tissue. I tried tray sensitizing once, but found it messy, wasteful and of no merit to my particular workflow.
* Exposure is typically around 6m30s (+/- 15s) for a 6% pigment load, around 6m50s (+/- 20s) for 5% and up to ca. 7m45 for 4% pigment.
The printing frame I use has a simple 1mm thick sheet of glass from a very cheap picture frame. I tried replacing it with polycarbonate, but found that even without UV coating, polycarbonate is virtually UV opaque.

The resulting prints have convincing blacks and capture the entire tonal range of the digital negatives that I use. Getting good, solid paper white is a little difficult due to the fact that black areas in the negatives are constituted by minute drops of ink, which I find remains visible in any print. More diffuse light or a tiny distance between the negative and the tissue can alleviate this, but at the cost of sharpness, which I don't find a good compromise. For now, I'm fine with the slightly 'grainy' look of these prints as described by you and other printers. Perhaps I may switch to a method of printing negatives that allows for an even smoother tonal scale, but for now, I can't justify the investment in a dedicated printer and ink set specifically for that purpose.

Perhaps the above parameters can help you to work out how the Cone inks relate to the negatives you produce. It's kind of difficult to make a good comparison between different approaches as the number of variables is so huge.

Btw, thank you for documenting your experiences in different places online; I think I have by now read about each and every of your forum posts and articles that I could find and they have been a great help! I would have never gotten to the point where I am now (until last summer, I hadn't so much as ever developed a negative myself and now I find myself doing carbon printing!) without the insights you and some other experienced printers have shared (Andrew O'Neill and Jim Fitzgerald come to mind). Not to mention the huge source of inspiration that your images constitute for beginners like myself...

Jim Fitzgerald
12-Jan-2015, 08:25
Koraks, nice to read about your steps in your process. Everyone's is different. I do not use digital negatives or anything like that but it is the end result that counts. We are always refining the process. Keep up the good work it is looking good.

koraks
12-Jan-2015, 08:30
Jim, thanks for your encouragement; it means a lot coming from you! I love your work and envy your dedication; it sure pays off! I'm currently limited to 4x5, but who knows, one day I'll follow you into ULF territory. It sure does seem more realistic than a year ago, which goes to show that despite my stubbornness, I do learn...occasionally...;)

koraks
13-Jan-2015, 13:50
So yesterday I printed two more images on my latest tissue recipe, which is the one outlined above. I'm pretty pleased with the dynamic range, save for the issues I outlined earlier (slightly grainy due to inkjet dither, some minor bubbles & transfer issues). The highlights aren't completely paper white, but I think that's a compromise I'll have to make, since the transition from paper white to the next shade is never completely smooth, also due to a slight unevenness in sensitization which seems quite hard to get rid of. Btw, the highlights in the real-life prints are a little cleaner than they appear on my monitor screen, but it's inherently impossible to completely faithfully translate a print to a digital display.

Both images are digital captures, printed on Esselte transparencies. Image size is ca. 18.5cm wide, so these are small prints. This format is great for testing, since I can cut the A4-sized transparencies in half and use the other half for cyanotype negatives.

http://www.koraks.nl/galleries/prints/_MG_6371%20carbon.jpg

http://www.koraks.nl/galleries/prints/_MG_6373%20carbon.jpg

StoneNYC
13-Jan-2015, 16:37
So yesterday I printed two more images on my latest tissue recipe, which is the one outlined above. I'm pretty pleased with the dynamic range, save for the issues I outlined earlier (slightly grainy due to inkjet dither, some minor bubbles & transfer issues). The highlights aren't completely paper white, but I think that's a compromise I'll have to make, since the transition from paper white to the next shade is never completely smooth, also due to a slight unevenness in sensitization which seems quite hard to get rid of. Btw, the highlights in the real-life prints are a little cleaner than they appear on my monitor screen, but it's inherently impossible to completely faithfully translate a print to a digital display.

Both images are digital captures, printed on Esselte transparencies. Image size is ca. 18.5cm wide, so these are small prints. This format is great for testing, since I can cut the A4-sized transparencies in half and use the other half for cyanotype negatives.

http://www.koraks.nl/galleries/prints/_MG_6371%20carbon.jpg

http://www.koraks.nl/galleries/prints/_MG_6373%20carbon.jpg

Wow, the tones are just incredible on this, just amazing!

Jim Fitzgerald
13-Jan-2015, 19:42
I was given sound advice from Vaughn and Sandy many years ago that I remember and incorporate into my work flow every time I print. Once the mechanics of the process become second nature and you get the bugs worked out it all comes together and gets to be so much fun. Keep printing and learning with each print and keep good notes. Do not change to many things at one time and when you find your combination you may never print any other way. At least that is the way it is for me. Keep up the good work!

sanking
13-Jan-2015, 20:53
Congratulations on your continuing success with carbon transfer. Having been at this stage at one time I know how exciting it must be to see those prints emerge from the warm water.

A nice transition in highlights between 0% paper white and 5% is much harder with carbon than other alternative processes because of the mechanical nature of the of process and the way it wants to "break off" at a certain point. With your digital negatives you will eventually learn to control this by putting just a bit of shoulder compression in the highlights of your negatives.

Sensitizing technique is also critical in carbon. I recommend spirit type sensitizing with a high density foam roller. However, even with perfect technique it is still quite difficult to print in carbon images that have have a lot of broad areas of upper mid-tone and highlight values. However, the transition of tones in the mid-tones and shadows can be quite incredible with carbon.

Sandy



So yesterday I printed two more images on my latest tissue recipe, which is the one outlined above. I'm pretty pleased with the dynamic range, save for the issues I outlined earlier (slightly grainy due to inkjet dither, some minor bubbles & transfer issues). The highlights aren't completely paper white, but I think that's a compromise I'll have to make, since the transition from paper white to the next shade is never completely smooth, also due to a slight unevenness in sensitization which seems quite hard to get rid of. Btw, the highlights in the real-life prints are a little cleaner than they appear on my monitor screen, but it's inherently impossible to completely faithfully translate a print to a digital display.

koraks
14-Jan-2015, 05:50
StoneNYC, Jim and Sandy, thanks again for your kind remarks. The carbon process is an addictive one for sure and if I compare where I am now to where I started out two months ago, I'm pleased to see that I'm making some progress.

Jim, I recognize what you say about not changing too many parameters at once. I do sometimes find myself changing two parameters at once and indeed, it can be difficult to disentangle the effects of both changes, but under some circumstances, I found it does give some insight. Perhaps it's more difficult as opposed to changing just one parameter at a time, but sometimes, I find a learn quicker this way. However, changing three parameters or more just results in difficulties making out what is happening exactly.

Sandy, good advice on compressing part of the curve to optimize the highlights. I found myself following the same strategy with cyanotypes and it worked, sort of, but given the steep nature of the curves, it's difficult to find the sweet spot and not overdo it. I think the main issue with highlights I'm running into is that the first gradations (i.e. the highest densities in the negative) don't print all that well on my printer with the inks I use (I noticed this with both Epson and Cone inks). Anything between 0 and 5% (i.e. 100% and 95% density) tends to print as pure black. This is possibly due to the fact that I use a color density (CD) setting of +40%, which puts me close to the edge of the process window of the printer. I'm leaning towards either decreasing the CD setting (resulting in thinner negatives and necessitating a slightly lower dichromate load), or truncating the darkest densities of the negative, effectively chopping it off at about 96% density so I get an overall smooth gradation in the negative. Also, I read that high pigment loads tend to create difficulties in getting a smooth transition from minute densities to paper white, which may become a problem if I alter the negatives as described in the previous sentences. Anyway, more testing is needed, that much is sure. I may have to go back at printing some more step wedges, although I must say I'm enjoying printing actual images a lot more, even within the limitations I'm currently bound to.

Thanks again for the enduring support, directly in response to my posts and indirectly through the plethora of information you guys have shared online!

koraks
15-Jan-2015, 05:09
Some more from yesterday. My luck certainly isn't consistent yet, which goes to show especially in the second picture. Still, these were fun to make. Both are digital captures and printed on the same 18-ish cm format as the other pics I posted before.

http://www.koraks.nl/galleries/prints/Rome%20Scuola%20140115.jpg
Rome, school on the Tiber bank

http://www.koraks.nl/galleries/prints/London%20pond%20140115.jpg
London, pond in front of Buckingham palace
This picture has a 'happy little accident' in it, in the form of the striations in the sky. They puzzle me somewhat, but I think I found the problem. When pouring glop, I use a blunt-tip syringe and basically 'jet' the glop onto the carrier, moving the syringe to and fro over the paper (which makes me a...glopjet printer?). In doing this, the blunt tip of the syringe touches the carrier, causing slight damage to its surface. I never thought about this, but apparently, this damage somehow shows through in the highlights of the print. In this image, it creates a sort of ominous effect, as they sort of look like dark lightning bolts (darkning bolts? I should make a living out of conjuring up words!)

Also, I'd like to make a note about the sugar content in the tissue. In one of the Yahoo group discussions, Sandy remarked that 50g sugar/liter is about the upper limit that he tested for sugar content. In my testing, I have gone beyond that, to about 80g/liter. The images in this post were made on a tissue with about 60g/liter. I noticed that in bringing down the sugar concentration from 80g to 60g some issues I had with uneven sensitization seem to have largely gone away. This leads me to think that too high sugar content can cause uneven sensitization. I speculate that this is due to the consistency of the tissue, which seems less capable of absorbing the sensitizer if the sugar concentration is too high. This causes the sensitizer to pearl on the surface of the tissue. Maybe this could be solved by using a higher percentage of water in the working strength sensitizer, as it will cause the sensitizer to dry more slowly, allowing for a more even distribution during application. Of course, the other obvious solution is to bring the sugar content down, as I did.

Can anyone confirm this suspicion?

andreios
15-Jan-2015, 05:27
The first one (Window & Ivy) is quite beautiful...

PS: If all goes well I'll be mixing a batch of glop tonight... :)

koraks
15-Jan-2015, 05:51
Thank you, Andrei! Yes, the first picture is definitely the better of the two. I doubted about posting the second one, and I did mainly because of the informative effect concerning the 'darkning bolts'.

Keep us updated on how your endeavor into carbon printing country goes! I now know a little of what lies ahead of you, and it's for sure going to be a rocky road. But using Sandy's tutorial as well as the other info particularly on the Yahoo carbon printing forum, it is possible to get some results that are at least satisfying to the maker. I so far mostly enjoyed the process from the very beginning, even though my initial prints were absolutely hopeless. But they did demonstrate to me that with the necessary work, it can be done...yes, it can!

Will S
15-Jan-2015, 06:09
Sensitizing technique is also critical in carbon. I recommend spirit type sensitizing with a high density foam roller. However, even with perfect technique it is still quite difficult to print in carbon images that have have a lot of broad areas of upper mid-tone and highlight values. However, the transition of tones in the mid-tones and shadows can be quite incredible with carbon.

Sandy

For us in U.S. what foam roller are you using please? Just something from Home Depot or is it more specialized? Thanks, Will

sanking
15-Jan-2015, 06:44
Also, I'd like to make a note about the sugar content in the tissue. In one of the Yahoo group discussions, Sandy remarked that 50g sugar/liter is about the upper limit that he tested for sugar content. In my testing, I have gone beyond that, to about 80g/liter. The images in this post were made on a tissue with about 60g/liter. I noticed that in bringing down the sugar concentration from 80g to 60g some issues I had with uneven sensitization seem to have largely gone away. This leads me to think that too high sugar content can cause uneven sensitization. I speculate that this is due to the consistency of the tissue, which seems less capable of absorbing the sensitizer if the sugar concentration is too high. This causes the sensitizer to pearl on the surface of the tissue. Maybe this could be solved by using a higher percentage of water in the working strength sensitizer, as it will cause the sensitizer to dry more slowly, allowing for a more even distribution during application. Of course, the other obvious solution is to bring the sugar content down, as I did.

Can anyone confirm this suspicion?

The issue is not that sugar causes uneven sensitization, but that sugar holds moisture in the tissue, and that can cause uneven mark and lines. The solution is longer drying times. In my opinion there is never any need for more than 40 grams of sugar per liter of glop if the RH does not go below about 36%.

Sandy

sanking
15-Jan-2015, 06:45
High density foam roller, about 1.5" in diameter, two to three inches long. Available at Home Depot, Lowes, etc, in the painting section.

Sandy

koraks
15-Jan-2015, 06:52
Sandy, you may be right, although the RH here especially in winter can be really low (30%-ish). I had a sheet crack once when I tried to uncurl it, so it seems that there is really little moisture left in it after drying for >48 hours under these conditions. Maybe I'll resort to glycerin at some point, but I'm wary of moisture retention becoming (more of) an issue. In any case, I'll be sure to allow for plenty of drying time in my tissue making and with a little bit of luck, I can work with the sugar level I'm using now. Lower than that doesn't seem feasible, as it will result in unmanageable curl, even using small sheets. Note that the degree of curl may have something to do with the very high pigment load I'm using; I'm not really sure, but I can readily imagine that this contributes to the curling problem.

sanking
15-Jan-2015, 07:42
Sandy, you may be right, although the RH here especially in winter can be really low (30%-ish). I had a sheet crack once when I tried to uncurl it, so it seems that there is really little moisture left in it after drying for >48 hours under these conditions. Maybe I'll resort to glycerin at some point, but I'm wary of moisture retention becoming (more of) an issue. In any case, I'll be sure to allow for plenty of drying time in my tissue making and with a little bit of luck, I can work with the sugar level I'm using now. Lower than that doesn't seem feasible, as it will result in unmanageable curl, even using small sheets. Note that the degree of curl may have something to do with the very high pigment load I'm using; I'm not really sure, but I can readily imagine that this contributes to the curling problem.

If the RH is less than 35% you may indeed need glycerine to retain some moisture. Some of my tissue can also crack when the RH is around 30% when I unroll it. We get RH this low only one or twice a year in the winter.

So far as I understand the issue there is no reason high pigment loading would cause cracks, nor should it contribute to the curling problem. That is almost certainly caused by the gelatin of the tissue drying.

But why use very heavy pigment loading at all. With pigment loading you need enough to get Dmax, more serves no useful purpose that I can see.

Sandy

koraks
15-Jan-2015, 08:53
So far as I understand the issue there is no reason high pigment loading would cause cracks, nor should it contribute to the curling problem. That is almost certainly caused by the gelatin of the tissue drying.
Again, you're probably right. It doesn't help either that the temporary support that I use is quite flaccid. It's a cheap drawing paper that I selected mostly on cost and apart from the curling issue, it works quite well. I tried pouring on quite thick sheets of transparent PE, but I found it too smooth; the tissue tends to separate from the support in the final stage of drying.


But why use very heavy pigment loading at all. With pigment loading you need enough to get Dmax, more serves no useful purpose that I can see.
Well, obviously, I'm only a fledgling printer, so I may find a way to make lower pigment loads work. However, I noticed during early stages of testing that I couldn't get convincing blacks with lower pigment loads and still be able to get good highlights with somewhat decent dichromate concentrations. I tried pigment loads of around 2% w/v and dichromate concentrations (in the working solution, so diluted with acetone) of about 0.4% and I would still have to choose between good blacks or good whites. With the 6% pigment load, I can get both in the same image. Note that this is all with the digital negatives printed with Cone inks. I haven't tried printing silver negatives yet due to size restrictions, the fact that most of my negatives are TMX which blocks most of the UV and my willingness to print images of digital origin. What would you suggest in this situation? Relief is not my primary goal; I just want a nice and complete tonal range from my (mostly) digital pictures.

PS: my tissues are fairly thick, ca. 1mm wet height. Obviously most of the tissue disappears in development, but I found that with thinner tissues, they aren't completely opaque even with high pigment loads. It is possible that the paints I use have little pigment in them, but I also tried India ink which I cannot imagine having less than 25% of the pigment of e.g. Black Cat (which is not readily available here).

sanking
15-Jan-2015, 09:44
Again, you're probably right. It doesn't help either that the temporary support that I use is quite flaccid. It's a cheap drawing paper that I selected mostly on cost and apart from the curling issue, it works quite well. I tried pouring on quite thick sheets of transparent PE, but I found it too smooth; the tissue tends to separate from the support in the final stage of drying.


Well, obviously, I'm only a fledgling printer, so I may find a way to make lower pigment loads work. However, I noticed during early stages of testing that I couldn't get convincing blacks with lower pigment loads and still be able to get good highlights with somewhat decent dichromate concentrations. I tried pigment loads of around 2% w/v and dichromate concentrations (in the working solution, so diluted with acetone) of about 0.4% and I would still have to choose between good blacks or good whites. With the 6% pigment load, I can get both in the same image. Note that this is all with the digital negatives printed with Cone inks. I haven't tried printing silver negatives yet due to size restrictions, the fact that most of my negatives are TMX which blocks most of the UV and my willingness to print images of digital origin. What would you suggest in this situation? Relief is not my primary goal; I just want a nice and complete tonal range from my (mostly) digital pictures.

PS: my tissues are fairly thick, ca. 1mm wet height. Obviously most of the tissue disappears in development, but I found that with thinner tissues, they aren't completely opaque even with high pigment loads. It is possible that the paints I use have little pigment in them, but I also tried India ink which I cannot imagine having less than 25% of the pigment of e.g. Black Cat (which is not readily available here).


With tissue 1mm thick I have never had to use pigment loading of more than about 3%. Some people use as little as 1%, or even less, with Black Cat. The key is adding just enough pigment to make the coating visually opaque at the thickness you coat. Anything more does no good.

If most of your tissue disappears in development it suggests that nearly all of the exposure action is happening near the top of the tissue. Ideally you would like to see the action take place almost down the substrate of the tissue, so that in development most of the tissue stays with the image, not washed away.

Have you considered testing with an analog step wedge, like a Stouffer 21 step transmission wedge? This would at least provide a common reference of transmission densities and resulting reflection densities.

Sandy

koraks
15-Jan-2015, 10:00
I agree that most of the action apparently takes place on the top of the emulsion. Although in the prints when they are still wet, there is relief of a few tenths of a mm, so that suggests I may still burn down about halfway into the emulsion or thereabouts.

No, I haven't tried a proper step wedge yet. I once tried to print one or two sheets with Fomapan 100 negatives (which are, as far as I can tell without access to a densitometer, normally exposed and developed), but the results were virtually identical to the ones I got with my printed negatives, so I resorted to reformulating the tissue. I may try and optimize for lower pigment loads in the future, but at this point, it seems like the higher pigment load isn't causing me big problems (apart from slightly higher costs per print), so it's not a priority. It will certainly become one once I find I can't get any better prints with the current formulation...

Andrew O'Neill
15-Jan-2015, 13:21
Keep up the great work, koraks!

koraks
15-Jan-2015, 13:40
Thanks Andrew, I will certainly do that! Although I can't wait to start with kallitypes as well. Damn UPS seems to have misplaced the chemicals I had on order.

Jim Fitzgerald
15-Jan-2015, 20:37
I've always felt that with carbon transfer especially it is finding a balance and then fine tuning it. Koraks, don't give up or get distracted. It is easy to bail on the process when things get nuts but tough it out and you will learn a lot and be rewarded. Perseverance is key!

koraks
16-Jan-2015, 02:34
I will not abandon ship! Although I do like to have another process at hand that I can play with whenever I have just too little time to make a good carbon print. I'm currently dabbling with cyanotypes for that purpose, but sometimes they give me the blues.

Andrew O'Neill
16-Jan-2015, 11:04
I have done nothing but carbon prints for the past 6 years, but did make some kallitypes as well for my show in Japan. I will never give up kallitype printing or silver printing for that matter, and will make a carbon print if I feel that it would be better suited in that medium.

sanking
16-Jan-2015, 11:19
I have done nothing but carbon prints for the past 6 years, but did make some kallitypes as well for my show in Japan. I will never give up kallitype printing or silver printing for that matter, and will make a carbon print if I feel that it would be better suited in that medium.

Andrew makes a great point that is sometimes not considered by persons who only have experience with one type of printing media, and that is the fact that different media (albumen, carbon, kallitype, pt/pd, silver gelatin, inkjet) have image quality characteristics that might make any one of them preferable to some people for certain kinds of images. The decision how to print a given image to best take advantage of the medium is highly subjective and dependent on the experience of an individual with seeing and working with different processes, and on his/her personal aesthetic choice for a specific image.

Sandy

koraks
16-Jan-2015, 12:22
I can only agree;I currently print carbon, inkjet and cyanotype and I'm planning to add kallitype and silver gelatin in the near future, with no intent to step out of any technique entirely.

Andrew O'Neill
16-Jan-2015, 13:08
Sandy,

It was your articles that got me interested in other ways of printing my negatives. The first being about kallitypes, then a few years later, carbon. Thank you.

Andy

sanking
16-Jan-2015, 16:17
Andy,

Hope you continue to enjoy working with both processes.

Kallitype is in several respects a more demanding process than carbon. Once you nail carbon you have it nailed forever because the chemistry is so simple and stable. Kallitype, on the other hand, is subject to considerable variation because of the complexity of the chemistry, printing characteristics of different papers, and reaction of the image to toning.

Sandy

Tri Tran
22-Jan-2015, 20:10
My friend Jim F came last Sunday for a visit so we have a little discussion about the Carbon Print with digital negative. Shown here is a 13x19 in print that was taken with the Nikon D800 raw file. Processed to my custom curve. It was fun to work with the digital negative and the options are endless.

http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/xq90/540/qyiQw4.jpg (https://imageshack.com/i/f0qyiQw4j)

Andrew O'Neill
22-Jan-2015, 22:18
Tri, are you happy with the D800?

Jim Fitzgerald
22-Jan-2015, 22:56
Tri, fun day talking high performance cars and carbon prints!

Tri Tran
23-Jan-2015, 11:06
Tri, are you happy with the D800?

I bought it when it first came out . I like the performance of its high res . So far so good but it can't compare with in camera negative IMO. May be Phase 1 :)
FYI; My prime lens for this outfit are 14mm-24mm F 2.8 and 24mm-120mm EDVR.

Tri Tran
23-Jan-2015, 11:07
Tri, fun day talking high performance cars and carbon prints!

Indeed. Super cars , super prints and super day :)

Andrew O'Neill
23-Jan-2015, 14:40
I made a carbon print originally captured from a dslr. I didn't like it. I do make carbon prints from digital negatives initially scanned from 8x10 film. Hard pressed to tell the difference, although a print directly from film has better high lights and slightly more relief... in my opinion.

mdarnton
3-Feb-2015, 21:21
I have been reading Kodak's Studio Light magazine on archive.org and in the 1910 volume, on page 89, found this:

http://i2.minus.com/jLMcdV7XSfsxp.jpg

Check out that UV box in the background! Based on other things I've been reading there, I suspect the source in the middle of the hive is a carbon arc.

sanking
11-Apr-2015, 19:39
Just made this one, and is hanging to dry as you can tell by reflections. Image is 15X23" on 20X24" fixed out silver gelatin glossy paper. Made from a digital negative. Also attached the PS file which gives a better idea of the print than the actual one hanging.


Sandy