Lighting up an underground football field with no electricity... HOW???

[mortensen]

Okay, I need some serious advice, fellow LF'ers.
I have the wonderful opportunity to photograph two enormous out-of-use freshwater reservoirs just outside Copenhagen - the largest being 11.500m2 (approx. 124.000 sq feet) and 9m ceiling height.
But, the only light source is the top latch, approx. 2m2, in one corner of the truly immense room. And there is no power supply down there.

What are my options?
- 'light paint' the room with multiple, powerful flashlights during long exposures?
- rent a small generator and 1-4 powerful lamps? (which would that be, btw??? I have no experience with lighting a scene like this...)
- some magic trick I don't know of...? (the probably won't allow me to use fireworks down there...)

Thanks in advance...

[Tim Meisburger]

Cave photographers still use flash powder sometimes, but as you say, they probably would not like that.

[Tin Can]

Look up cave photography with flash bulbs, if you were in Chicago, we could do it with the bulbs I have.

I can't wait to see what you do and shoot.


Okay, I need some serious advice, fellow LF'ers.
I have the wonderful opportunity to photograph two enormous out-of-use freshwater reservoirs just outside Copenhagen - the largest being 11.500m2 (approx. 124.000 sq feet) and 9m ceiling height.
But, the only light source is the top latch, approx. 2m2, in one corner of the truly immense room. And there is no power supply down there.

What are my options?
- 'light paint' the room with multiple, powerful flashlights during long exposures?
- rent a small generator and 1-4 powerful lamps? (which would that be, btw??? I have no experience with lighting a scene like this...)
- some magic trick I don't know of...? (the probably won't allow me to use fireworks down there...)

Thanks in advance...

[gleaf]

Large format. Defacto Copal not a press shutter. So you can set position, exposure etc for Strobe or flash bulb power. Then you can not only paint the space with the strobe series or flash. Can have shutter closed while relocating flash point ( or the dark slide ) so ambiant from the hatch is no consequence. Be careful of contrast issues. Worst negatives in my life were white epoxy coating inside an underground fuel tank. Only contrast was the natural fall off of the source with distance and shadows from pipes and ladder rungs.
They still make # 2 & # 3 equivalent flashbulbs. Company is in Ireland if I remember. We are speaking BIG 7 inch tall medium screw based lightbulb sized critters. 48 to a case. Bulbs about same price as a sheet of 8 x 10 if old foggy cells remember rightly.

[gleaf]

Http etc. meggaflash.com

[Jac@stafford.net]

Flash bulbs without reflectors. Edison / Mazda base for ease of deploying several over an area.

Most good flash meters with a cord connect option can read flashbulbs. Do a test or two and you are good to go.

[Kirk Gittings]

However yoU do it you are going to need either Polaroid or a digicam to check your lights.

Are these interesting architecturally or just huge empty boxes? To do this right is a ton of work. If its just a box............

[jp]

I'm pretty sure a generator won't be allowed underground / enclosed space even though it's a big place.

[vinny]

composing/focusing ought to be fun with those flash bulbs:)

[Darren Kruger]

Okay, I need some serious advice, fellow LF'ers.
I have the wonderful opportunity to photograph two enormous out-of-use freshwater reservoirs just outside Copenhagen - the largest being 11.500m2 (approx. 124.000 sq feet) and 9m ceiling height.
But, the only light source is the top latch, approx. 2m2, in one corner of the truly immense room. And there is no power supply down there.

What are my options?
- 'light paint' the room with multiple, powerful flashlights during long exposures?
- rent a small generator and 1-4 powerful lamps? (which would that be, btw??? I have no experience with lighting a scene like this...)
- some magic trick I don't know of...? (the probably won't allow me to use fireworks down there...)

Thanks in advance...

battery powered strobe. See if you can find a place that rents them. Profoto makes a few types (http://profoto.com/us/products/battery-generators) of battery pack for their strobes that have a lot of power but are heavy. Lumedyne also makes small battery powered strobes. If you small on camera flash, you can also use that to paint with (just be aware of where you are and what shadows might be created.)

-Darren

(class assignment from a few years ago taken with the Profoto battery system and a really long sync cord)
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[gleaf]

Tex Helm's Carlsbad Cavern Big Room shot used 2400 #2's for 55 million sq. ft. So Meggaflash 300's likely four for 55,000 sq ft. They will fire from 6 volts. 110,000 average lumens. About 6 million peak. If he sets off enough bulbs the ground may glow. Can you tell I love his opportunity. I still remember my last shot with a #2. Caused a helicopter search for the reported plane crash. Everyone saw the huge flash in the middle of the golf course.

[Tin Can]

Just one #2 caused that much ruckus?


Tex Helm's Carlsbad Cavern Big Room shot used 2400 #2's for 55 million sq. ft. So Meggaflash 300's likely four for 55,000 sq ft. They will fire from 6 volts. 110,000 average lumens. About 6 million peak. If he sets off enough bulbs the ground may glow. Can you tell I love his opportunity. I still remember my last shot with a #2. Caused a helicopter search for the reported plane crash. Everyone saw the huge flash in the middle of the golf course.

[gleaf]

Sneaky photo bug sailors on the back nine of the golf course after way too much refreshment.. or just enough. Really a bad idea on a communication station guarded by Marines. But the 35 mm golf course at midnight shot was awesome. We did slip away in the darkness.

[mortensen]

Wow! Thanks for all the replies, everybody - much appreciated... where to start...
well, first of all, I do not imagine the entire room to be fully lit ;) Having the room fade to black before you can see the end of it, would be great. I would, though, prefer not to get an over contrasty 'flash' picture dominated by deep shadow... and I can only imagine that is difficult to achieve using flash, haha. Is there such thing as a 'soft' or heavily diffused flash?
@gleaf, Randy Moe: the flash bulbs sound great and it's a tempting, ol'skool option, but I feel much more inclined to persue what Darren Kruger suggest - not least because my local photo pusher rents profoto battery packs and strobes. Talked to them today - the battery pack should fire around 200 times on one charge. That should cover the day including tests on digital...
@Kirk:... which brings me to you, Kirk - I will of course bring a digital (Sigma DP2 Merrill, the only digicam I have). Attached picture was from my visit last friday. 20s, f5.6 iso 160, heavily compressed histogram in raw-conversion. I wasn't holding the torch, which partially explains the huge highlight splotch. And, well, it gives you an idea of the room. Nothing special architecturally (the smaller ones are, though, designed by danish architect Ib Lunding (http://www.indenforvoldene.dk/groenningen%207-9%20-%20hammerensgade%208.html)), but I think that is equally interesting. For me, the sheer scale of the room and the fact that it was designed for freshwater, not people, is what interests me. There is no sign of human scale anywhere, apart from the staircase (which I can happily leave out of my shots).
@Vinny: you are right - composing and focusing is a real issue. I will have to use one or two torches... I have tried 'similar' conditions before, when shooting in an empty gasholder (50m cross section, 110m tall, lit by skylights, tar oil on the inside... impressive place, which they unfortunately blew up one and a half year ago). Attached image is two 4x5's stitched, 115 Grandagon on Linhof TK45S

best,
lars

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[jp]

You do what you want, but I'd put a human in these you've shown. 2nd one calls for a blond female dressed in red with red lipstick staring intently at the camera or facing away from the camera, beckoning you toward the light.

[mortensen]

... hahaha :D not quite what I'm after

I did step into the frame in the gasholder

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[bob carnie]

I am no expert on this but if this was something I was going to do, I would listen to Kirk as this is in his wheelhouse.

But as a layman I would shoot tethered to a computer and paint with light any damm way I could think and watch the progress on the screen.
I think it would be tons of fun to do such a project.

Or I would let natural light work for me.

I did print a show for Steve Evans Distillery project where he used 8x10 HP5 film , and just the natural light coming into the rooms, he heavily overexposed the film and I drop processed in PMK, these were some of the nicest neg's I have ever made for someone and they really printed well.

I think both methods would work well.

[Jac@stafford.net]

would, though, prefer not to get an over contrasty 'flash' picture dominated by deep shadow... and I can only imagine that is difficult to achieve using flash, haha. Is there such thing as a 'soft' or heavily diffused flash
]

Yes. That is the perfect characterization of flash bulbs without reflectors.

What is your objection to considering them?

[mortensen]

I have no objection to considering them - I just simply don't know the difference you are describing because I always shoot with natural/available light. Renting a battery pack and a strobe just seemed much easier to me. But hey, I shoot film and drum scan, so if the bulbs are better than anything else, I'm on it!
Please enlighten me and link to beautiful references! I'm all ears.

What equipment do I need and how is it done?

@ Bob: thanks for advice. I am an architect and I primarily shoot architecture, so I feel quite at home, thanks ;) But of course I listen to Kirk's advice as well

[Kirk Gittings]

The low ceiling space I would shoot by light painting it with a continuos light source like a powerful flashlight (and lots of batteries), a high asa film etc.. You move the light around in a big circle at each location to soften the shadows-no way to do this with strobes-it creates a huge light source. Otherwise the pillars will cast awful raw confusing shadows. The high ceiling one I would do with battery powered strobe-at least two with 2000 WS each and be prepared to do multiple pops.

I have used #2s before and even with Polaroid I wasted so many bulbs it became cost prohibitive.

[gleaf]

http://bigshot.cias.rit.edu/

R.I.T. has continued the original Sylvania (now Osram Sylvania) Big Shot series.
Some good information on how they are getting their even lighting effect.
They use it as an annual class exercise.

http://www.monkton-farleigh.co.uk/Fauld.htm
Photos taken during WW2 at RAF Fauld. Chalk Mine tunnels and storage areas.
That era likely 6/6 inch reflector and standard flash bulbs.
Somewhere I have a book with more thorough photographic details.

Our rig for the golf course shot was a 4" square electrical box, a ceramic lamp socket for medium screw base and a 6 volt 'lantern' battery.
Camera hand held and about 20 - 30 feet off to the side of the bulb. Open flash while shutter was open on "B".

[photonsoup]

We did a similar thing in a giant room of a cave. There was about a 30 foot belly crawl to get into that prevented us taking much gear. My friend brought an Olympus 35mm, a small tripod and a speedlight that ran off of a nicad battery pack that he built. He put the camera on the tripod, my job was to cover the lens with my helmet, he opened the shutter then moved around to different locations. He would turn his light off, yell to me, I would move the helmet, he would fire the strobe, I would cover the lens, he then turned his light back on and moved to a different position. We shot a roll of film with 4 to 9 flashes on each one and got some spectacular photos. He includes his shadow in a couple and I really liked that effect. With todays instant feedback on digital camera you could really fine tune the process.

have fun and share your results

[Leszek Vogt]

How about using a string or two of super bright LED's....hanged on more distant poles + batt packs to show the size of the space....and lesser amounts closer to the camera (only ambiance). Not much light, but you could return in 8hrs :>). This could be pretested with a digi camera....to truly determine how long of an exposure this would be. If need be, and you didn't wanted to invest in large amounts of LED's, you could place the lights at X number of poles at a time, shut the shutter and move the lights....and open the shutter and on and on till you got really sick of this :>).


Another idea popped into my silly head. To rent couple of 100-200W porta video lights (to paint with) and attach them to something motorized (mower with steering ?) and make sure they are well scrimmed and on one side (from the camera) would be a tall plywood...masquerading the lights. Not sure tho if somehow the light will not create strobing efect across the background. Just a theory...


Les

[analoguey]

There was a profoto or mamiya blog on lighting up a 'tube' tunnel in UK, I think. Check that out for some tips maybe?

[mortensen]

The low ceiling space I would shoot by light painting it with a continuos light source like a powerful flashlight (and lots of batteries), a high asa film etc.. You move the light around in a big circle at each location to soften the shadows-no way to do this with strobes-it creates a huge light source. Otherwise the pillars will cast awful raw confusing shadows. The high ceiling one I would do with battery powered strobe-at least two with 2000 WS each and be prepared to do multiple pops.

I have used #2s before and even with Polaroid I wasted so many bulbs it became cost prohibitive.

Thanks, Kirk... how come you suggest different methods for the two rooms? A really powerful torch/flashlight can illuminate parts of the big room as well (as in previously attached photo). Both strobe and flashbulbs feel less controllable to me (because I have no experience with any of them, of course), whereas light painting with a really powerful flashlight seems more manageable. But of course, it has a drawback in being highly susceptible to uneven illumination of various areas of the picture, which could cause greatly unbalanced negatives that would be very difficult to fix in post. It would be easier to have a 'precise' system where to pop the strobes and where to point them... right? :)

[Kirk Gittings]

I'm just going by my years of experience and my gut looking at those pics.

The horizontal space needs light "painting" with a continuous source-small areas at a time till you get it all covered. Otherwise the shadows will look like crap.

The vertical space needs big broad huge power. Shadows are not an issue. It can be done with strobe and a wide angle reflector pointed up a bit and using multiple pops you can build enormous flash power.

Two different spaces-two different solutions.

Are you hell bent on using color? Otherwise I would do the vertical space in B&W and use a compensating developer like divided Pyrocat and no lights at all.

[mortensen]

How about using a string or two of super bright LED's....hanged on more distant poles + batt packs to show the size of the space....and lesser amounts closer to the camera (only ambiance). Not much light, but you could return in 8hrs :>). This could be pretested with a digi camera....to truly determine how long of an exposure this would be. If need be, and you didn't wanted to invest in large amounts of LED's, you could place the lights at X number of poles at a time, shut the shutter and move the lights....and open the shutter and on and on till you got really sick of this :>).


Another idea popped into my silly head. To rent couple of 100-200W porta video lights (to paint with) and attach them to something motorized (mower with steering ?) and make sure they are well scrimmed and on one side (from the camera) would be a tall plywood...masquerading the lights. Not sure tho if somehow the light will not create strobing efect across the background. Just a theory...


Les

Thanks, Les - appreciate you input. Interesting, though slightly demanding, ideas :) A battery powered flood light would be great... is there such a thing?

[mortensen]

Kirk, I guess I confused thing posting the image of the gasholder (the second pic, vertical space you refer to).
The first picture previously posted, what you refer to as the horizontal space, is actually the BIG water reservoir, 11.500 sqm. I will have access to one or two smaller (but still huge) reservoirs-those are the ones designed by aforementioned Ib Lunding.

I shot the gasholder with available light from skylights almost two years ago - what you see is 5-10min exposures on 4x5, iso160. The gasholder was the most incredible industrial cathedral space I have ever witnessed-as previously posted, they unfortunately blew it up two years ago. Very sad indeed

[jp]

In the space with the columns... Another option would be to embrace the shadows and shoot toward the light rather than try to make it even. Sorta like what I've done with trees:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/13759696@N02/8545197905/

You could have twice as many cool lines (or more) depending on light sources and angles, etc...

[dave clayton]

Ive been exploring old mine workings for a while so have played around with lighting quite a fair bit. I'd ditch the flash bulbs get a few guys down there and use bright as hell torches and give each guy a area to light paint. Ive put in a shot to show what can be done space wise with a few 400lumen cavers head lamps and a cheap ebay special of unknown output. The Mine in question is a slate mine so zaps light like its going out of fashion but this should show what is possible with just 3 guys and 3 lamps

https://farm4.staticflickr.com/3821/9596016361_e366316109_b.jpg

[Leszek Vogt]

A battery powered flood light would be great... is there such a thing?

Lars, most of the larger cities will have pro video rental place (and they carry such)....you should be able to find something there that works.

Les

[Tin Can]

These are new, reviewed in Shutterbug mag, I have no experience with it.

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/controller/home?O=&sku=937205&Q=&is=REG&A=details

[gleaf]

Many of the continuous light studio LED arrays have a 12 volt DC option. For example:
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/850292-REG/Genaray_SP_AD35_Spectroled_35w_AC_DC.html
Should be many similar light systems available in the portable construction industry lighting these days.
May be enough variety for you to decide which light will provide the characteristics you desire rather than letting the light source dictate the art.

[photonsoup]

these look like just the thing for your project http://profoto.com/b1
looks like there are a lot of places that rent them around the world

[mortensen]

@ Dave: Great result! Inspiring to see, what you managed to get out of light painting - no spectacular drop shadows and an impressively even illumination. Serves as a good example.
@ Les, Randy, Gleaf & Photonsoup: Thanks for good suggestions - I'll note 'em all. I looked at the Lowel GL-1 the other day and my local rental place stock anything Profoto. I am quite sure that I will opt for a continuous, battery powered light source.

Now I 'just' have to execute it properly...

[Jim Jones]

Long ago I photographed an underground WWII room that was constructed like Mortensen's reservoir, but much smaller. An ordinary strobe, open flash, and Kodachrome 25 sufficed. Exposure was calculated from the guide number. The strobe's reflector reduced hot spots on the floor. The columns were wide enough to conceal me from the camera. A low power flashlight shielded from the camera made navigating in the totally dark room easy. It took maybe half an hour and the entire charge of a weak strobe battery. Alas, the transparency is long lost. For the huge reservoir, raising the flash on a pole to perhaps midway to the ceiling would help eliminate hot spots. A small wide-angle reflector might provide the most even lighting. Several flashes at various angles from behind each column would fill in the sharp shadows. You might want to bring your lunch and a powerful external battery.

[mortensen]

... thanks, Jim - good with a thorough explanation of method! I see your point with being behind the columns

[Brassai]

I work at night, mostly, and light up big stuff. My subjects are usually fast moving trains and I have to use flash to catch them. Your subject is not moving, so all of the suggestions above would work. If you have unlimited access, I would start with the big floodlights first as they are the cheapest way. Remember effect of light fall-off, that as you double the distance you have to double the exposure. The room with all the pillars will be the hardest because there will be shadows. I would try lining up either flash bulbs or battery powered flash along one side wall, to keep the light going in one direction perhaps. Another thought would be to place the flash behind the pillars and fire them away from the camera. You could do this with relatively small flash by making multiple exposures and moving the flash. Wide angle setting or reflectors, of course to diffuse the light into a larger area. I don't think you need big monolights and battery packs for this, and they would be the most expensive method anyway. The trick here is not so much having a lot of power, but rather keeping it even. Below shot done with x5 White Lightning monolights (~6,000ws) plus x8 Nikon SB-25 flash units. Train speed was ~20 mph. To get a sense of the scale, notice the red tractor in bottom left corner.

[mortensen]

Thanks, Brassai - what you and jim suggest about standing behind the columns, firing away from the camera is what I find to be the most promising systematic approach. I'll post, when it is done (that means give me a couple of months :) )