bogen 3047 vs. tiltall

[BetterSense]

I have a Calumet cc-401, speed graphic and RB67.

I've been dealing with cheap consumer tripods and jury-rigged construction tripods for too long. I got rid of it all when I moved. Now I have no tripod, but I do have a Bogen 3047 head and plenty of QD plates. I like it just fine. Should I get legs for my 3047 head, or just buy a new tiltall? Or something else? I typically don't go hiking so I don't need something carbon fiber and I don't have $300 to spend.

[Ari]

I think the Tiltall will satisfy all of your requirements.
But there are some decent Chinese tripods to be had for under $200 if you would prefer using the 3047 and QR system.
To wit: http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/655221-REG/Induro_472_213_Alloy_8M_AT213_Tripod.html

[BetterSense]

Do you have personal experience with that model? It is in my price range, but the last thing I want is to buy another tripod that is frustrating, then have to live with it for several years until I admit to myself it was a waste and be pretty much where I am.

I don't think my standards are high; I don't care about looks or weight and my cameras aren't fancy either...I just need the tripod equivalent to the CC-401...all the core functionality even if not pretty.

[Ari]

I used to have the larger AT413, and it was on the heavy side, but quite solid; a decent tripod at a decent price, no issues at all.
It does sound like your Tiltall will be just fine for your needs, unless you prefer using QR plates.
I say use the Tiltall until you find a reason to need a different tripod.

[Bill_1856]

Don't buy a NEW Tiltall -- get a used one made by Leitz.

[Alan Gales]

If you are going to buy a Tiltall you can pick up a real nice used one for under $100.00. I paid $75.00 for my Leitz version.

The new ones made in China are said to be inferior in build quality to the old ones according to knowledge that I gained from this forum.

[lenser]

For those cameras, the Tiltall will be enough. It is a great tripod (as others have said, buy a used Leitz version as it is highly superior to the others) for anything up to about the CC-400 series or Graflex size and weight.

I would not get rid of the 3047 head though. It is my favorite of all the three handled Bogen heads that I've owned and if you ever go to a heavier camera like a Cambo, or Sinar studio monorail, you will be glad you have the stronger head of the Bogen along with a decent set of legs.

My opinion, you would have the best of both worlds.

[Jim Jones]

The Tiltall tripod was developed by the Marchioni brothers. When they retired, Leitz seemed like a suitable company to take over production. They were also rebranded Star-D and perhaps one other old camera maker. Ansel Adams used one on his smaller cameras. I've owned Tiltalls branded Marchioni, Leitz, and Star-D. All gave fine service. I have no experience with the newer imported Tiltalls.

[BradS]

I strongly recommend the Bogen/Manfrotto 3021 (now called the 055, I think) legs. They are the perfect match for the 3047 head. It is a classic and very common tripod setup for LF.

[BetterSense]

I strongly recommend the Bogen/Manfrotto 3021 (now called the 055, I think) legs. They are the perfect match for the 3047 head. It is a classic and very common tripod setup for LF.

Is this the one:

http://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B000UMX7FI

My calumet is the long-rail model, which I sometimes use for macro, so it can get a bit tippy. After looking at pictures of the tiltall online, I'm leaning toward something sturdier to go with my 3047 head. Unfortunately I have no opportunity to look at tripod legs in person and the model numbers and specs are confusing. There aren't many camera stores around here and those only have foo-foo tripods.

[Kirk Gittings]

IMHO the Tiltall mounting plate and screw cannot provide enough torque to adequately secure the the Calumet.

[Dan Fromm]

I'm with Kirk. A Tiltall -- I have an all-metal Star D version in the closet -- is at best marginal with a CC-401.

Re the Bogen 3021/Manfrotto 055, I have one, used it for years with a 3047/029 on top. That combination will hold y'r Calumet. My 3021 doesn't have enough torsional stiffness to work well under my 700/8 Questar; I diagnosed the problem, which couldn't be adjusted out, as a consequence of short bearing surfaces in the leg locks. Two of my birder friends use 3021s under their spotting scopes; one is very stiff in torsion, the other isn't. If you get a 3021, buy with right of return.

I eventually retired my 3021 in favor of a Berleback 8023, which is much better. I replaced my 3047 head only when I built my Baby Bertha, which weighs around 25 pounds, much more than a 3047 can bear. Y'r 3047 should be fine under a 4x5 Calumet.

[lenser]

Kirk, I would agree if you are simply trying to put the camera on the Tiltall head in alignment with the handle and then screw it down. However, I have never trusted ANY tripod or mounting plate that way. I always place the camera on at about a 15-20 degree offset to the right of the handle, tighten the screw as much as possible, and then simply use the camera (or lens in 35mm long lenses made to be tripod mounted) to twist into position which gives tremendously more torque. This technique has been used from 35mm up to 8x10 cameras on various tripods including cameras as large as a Cambo SCX on the Tiltall in a pinch.

It also helps to substitute a better material for the usual rubber pads which fairly easily come loose over time. For many years I replaced those with cork and then switched to cured deer hide from Tandy Leather which is applied with contact cement, Weldwood being my favorite. I've been using that for at least eight years and have never had a problem or had to replace a pad.

[Mark Sampson]

The Star-D has never been anything but a cheap copy of a real Tiltall. (That didn't stop me from putting an 8x10 Ansco on a Star-D back in 1981, which broke the Star-D in short order.) I have a Marchioni Tiltall now, which IMHO is too small for a 4x5 rail camera. Having used Bogen 3047 heads since 1985 or so, I'll say that a leg-set slightly larger than the Tiltall's and the 3047 head should work just fine.

[Jim Jones]

The Star-D has never been anything but a cheap copy of a real Tiltall. (That didn't stop me from putting an 8x10 Ansco on a Star-D back in 1981, which broke the Star-D in short order.) I have a Marchioni Tiltall now, which IMHO is too small for a 4x5 rail camera. Having used Bogen 3047 heads since 1985 or so, I'll say that a leg-set slightly larger than the Tiltall's and the 3047 head should work just fine.

I used a Star-D Tiltall from 1974 until a few years ago, when I lost it.The Star-D was disassembled maybe twice for cleaning in that time, but gave no trouble except for a plastic knob breaking when the tripod was dropped. Now there's a Marchioni model in the car and a Leitz in the house. I've heard that some Star-D Tiltalls came with plastic, not brass, ferrules in the leg locks. Mine had brass.

[Dan Fromm]

Mark, you're absolutely right about late Star Ds that seem to be nearly all plastic. The one I bought in '78 differs from a Leitz Tiltall only in having plastic knobs on aluminum shafts (I know I've expressed it poorly). Real Tiltalls' knobs are all aluminum and interchange with my Star D ones. Like all of the Marchioni and Leitz Tiltalls I've had the chance to play with my Star D lacks stiffness in torsion around the center post. I think this is a consequence of short bearing surfaces in the leg locks. I've never broken mine, but the heaviest camera I've ever put on was probably a Beaulieu 5008 with a 6-70/1.4.

[BradS]

Is this the one:

http://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B000UMX7FI


Yes. There is also a simpler version. It looks like it is model 055XB

here's the whole family at B&H:
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/search?N=4289361368+4075788741&Ntt=055XB

[BetterSense]

Being a noob to proper photo tripods,it seems odd to me that these don't have any struts running between the legs and the center column, and that the legs are just one piece. Having never dealt with them in person, the lack of triangles in the design just seems flimsy, but maybe the tolerances and build quality make it ok. Still, BH says of the 055 "ideal for 35mm and light medium format cameras".

[John Koehrer]

Be aware that the Tiltall doesn't use a standard mount for the head. Their head wasn't made to be removable and is part & parcel with the center column.

If you don't mind permanently removing the T&A head you could insert a plug into the column with either 1/4" or 3/8" stud for the 3047.

[BradS]

Being a noob to proper photo tripods,it seems odd to me that these don't have any struts running between the legs and the center column, and that the legs are just one piece. Having never dealt with them in person, the lack of triangles in the design just seems flimsy, but maybe the tolerances and build quality make it ok. Still, BH says of the 055 "ideal for 35mm and light medium format cameras".

I've used the 055 with every LF camera I've owned....everything from a 4pound 4x5, several different 5x7's and an 8x10 Tachihara. It is quite adequate for 4x5. Even it's little brother, the 190 (was 3001) is adequate for 4x5.

[jp]

Being a noob to proper photo tripods,it seems odd to me that these don't have any struts running between the legs and the center column, and that the legs are just one piece. Having never dealt with them in person, the lack of triangles in the design just seems flimsy, but maybe the tolerances and build quality make it ok. Still, BH says of the 055 "ideal for 35mm and light medium format cameras".

Manfrotto and Tiltall are both good brands of tripod that don't need struts. The legs are sufficiently rigid and the hinge tolerances are good. If you think about the physics in terms of load vectors, the struts would basically reduce side-side slop in the center column if the legs are stable by 50%, and if the legs are stamped aluminum rather than steel (like a cheap walmart video tripod) they are more susceptible to rotational torque than a round tube leg (which can handle torque like a driveshaft). So if you have a cheap tripod with less stable stamped legs and a sloppy column, the struts don't do much for stability but might reduce warranty claims and returns from people snapping legs off the tripod like legs off a crab or lobster.

[Alan Gales]

Buy a used Tiltall for your Speed Graphic and RB67.

Buy a used Majestic for your monorail.

[E. von Hoegh]

Don't buy a NEW Tiltall -- get a used one made by Leitz.

Leitz or Marchioni (Marchioni is the ur-Tiltall), I've had both and they're of equal quality with some very small detail differences.

[jp]

Leitz is anodized which is a little more corrosion resistant but less pretty than the polished Marchioni.

[Chuck Pere]

If you want a bigger Bogen than the 3021 look at a 3036. Heavy but has a lot of height adjustment. They should be fairly cheap on the used market.

[PureQuill Photo]

I strongly recommend the Bogen/Manfrotto 3021 (now called the 055, I think) legs. They are the perfect match for the 3047 head. It is a classic and very common tripod setup for LF.

You see every piece of gear has its fans. I have a 3047 head that I really like the 3021 not so much see this thread why....
http://www.largeformatphotography.info/forum/showthread.php?110169-Aluminum-replacement-locking-levers-for-Bogan-3021-tripod

[BradS]

I strongly recommend the Bogen/Manfrotto 3021 (now called the 055, I think) legs. They are the perfect match for the 3047 head. It is a classic and very common tripod setup for LF.

You see every piece of gear has its fans. I have a 3047 head that I really like the 3021 not so much see this thread why....
http://www.largeformatphotography.info/forum/showthread.php?110169-Aluminum-replacement-locking-levers-for-Bogan-3021-tripod


...but, to be fair, that is an ancient 3021. They have not had that style of leg clamp for years. The new ones are much better.

[PureQuill Photo]

...but, to be fair, that is an ancient 3021. They have not had that style of leg clamp for years. The new ones are much better.

Fair enough I cant speak for the new 3021’s my only experience is with the one I own.
Hopefully they have fixed the lever problems I have experienced with the redesign used now.
Cheers
PQ

[mdarnton]

I've had a few tripods, and in general, I find light duty heads to be a lot more frustrating to deal with than light tripods. Spend your bucks on the head.

[Dan Fromm]

I've had a few tripods, and in general, I find light duty heads to be a lot more frustrating to deal with than light tripods. Spend your bucks on the head.

I used a 3047, if that's what you're reacting to, for years. It is well up to supporting the OP's cameras. It wasn't up to supporting my 25 pound Baby Bertha, so I replaced it with a 3039 (= Manfrotto 229).

[mdarnton]

No, I was more referring to the queasiness about using 055 tripods for big cameras and wanting to put more money into more tripod than that. I have a 3047 on mine, too, and it's great. The 3057 only weighs a few ounces more, and I like that head even more, but I think it would look silly on the 055. . . . maybe.

[Kirk Gittings]

I been using a 055MF3 with a 410 head http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/353679-REG/Manfrotto_055MF3_055MF3_Magfiber_Pro_Carbon.html for many years on any excursion farther than I can spilt from my truck. it works fine with both a DSLR or a 4x5.

[MrFujicaman]

I tried using a Star-D Tiltall with a C-401...bad idea. It was never made for that kind of load. I'd look at KEH, B & H, Ebay for a used bogen 3040 or 3046(3046 is the black version of the 3040)

[BetterSense]

I watched this video about the 3046. It looks very sturdy, maybe so sturdy as to be totally nonportable, but in the video it looks very hard to fold up. Is that how they all are, or is his broken?

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=X_cUZIOy4bg

[mdarnton]

Mine, used, came like that. I steel-wooled the center column to clean the crud off, then waxed it. No more problem.

[BetterSense]

What's the difference between the 055XDB and the 055XB?

[mdarnton]

Their description says something about a simpler center column for the XDB--I can see the difference in photo, but don't know what. It looks like it doesn't have the extra little platform on the bottom that you can pop out and put in the place where the column goes for spreading the legs and getting really low--lower than the column would permit, 7cm as opposed to 48cm. The bigger difference is leg lock turn knobs instead of flip locks.

[BetterSense]

The XDB costs more than the XB so you must be paying for those twist knobs. I don't have an opinion one way or other on the locks.

[mdarnton]

That's discounted . The full prices are the other way around, for some reason.

[MrFujicaman]

The 3040 he's showing in that YouTube video is a very early model judging from the handles on the 3047 head. Later models had a lock on the head for the QR plates and round handles-not the fluted ones shown in the video. Also, some 3040's had the optional 2 section lower legs and went up even higher than the one in the video.

[Bill Koechling]

I have an old Star-D Tiltall that I bought over 40 years ago and have a newer Tiltall. (The older one had NO plastic pieces.) I use them both regularly. For years I used the Star-D with a light (first a Calumet, then a Arca Swiss) 4x5 in the studio but now use both for assignments of all kinds. Mostly I mount an iPad on one and a DSLR on the other. I have not found any difference in quality between my old and new Tiltalls.

[DrTang]

not a big Bogen fan (although I own two) and I hate, hate, hate tiltalls

but - between the two, I'd pick a bigger Bogen (but keep my eyes open for a Gitzo or Linhof)

[BetterSense]

Well I bought a 3021 used. It seems fine so far but I'm slightly bummed it doesn't have any low-angle features. I'm probably going to need the small sections extended out halfway. All the way in is too short and all the way out starts to get flexy.

[BetterSense]

What is this clip and this threaded hole?

109549

109550

[Kirk Fry]

Either one will work fine. I have both, it is a toss. I have the used the Leitz tiltall on a CC401, ARCA, and crown, speed, and super graphics for 45 years. Neither works for 8X10, here one moves on to a Majestic head and legs and a mule.

[pdmoylan]

If you expect to use your tripod in water, I would definitely avoid the Tiltall. It will corrode eventually. I use Gitzo and have to clean it regularly and add some grease to the bushings to keep it functioning smoothly. It does not corrode. I have no experience with the Bogen however.

PDM

[mdarnton]

What is this clip and this threaded hole?


There's supposed to be a clip, but as far as I know, that's the wrong one. MY 3021 clip is black and has a little cast-in socket wrench for tightening the leg locks. The clip you have is exactly the same clip as on my Calumet light boom. The large round hole is for the light cord, and the smaller hole on the other side is for the hex wrench that tightens the sections together. Three came with the boom, to hold the cord up along the length of it.

Neither of mine--my 3021 or my 055, has the hole, but my 3046 tripod and my 3047 head both do, and someone a few weeks ago told me that it's for holding an alternate QR screw, so you can have both 3/8" and 1/4" handy (both have a 3/8" base on them, just under the head, to fit the hole). The 3057 head has the same hole.

[Gem Singer]

The threaded hole in the tripod shoulder is for attaching a Bogen shoulder strap.

At least that is what it is used for on my older 3021. I purchased the 3021 tripod with the strap already attached.

[mihag]

What is this clip

It is there to hold an allen wrench which is obviously missing.

[Gem Singer]

The Allen wrench is on the lever that tightens the center column. Push in the spring, give the lever a half turn.

The handle comes off, making the Allen wrench useable if you need to adjust the leg tightening levers.

The white plastic clip holds a mini socket wrench that can be used for tightening the hex bolts on the leg tightening levers. Yours is missing.

Never needed to use it in twenty years. Remove the clip, and forget about it.

[mihag]

On my 057 the plastic clip holds an allen wrench to adjust the friction of the geared cental column, the clip itself acts as a socet wrench to tighten the leg lock levers

[Gem Singer]

The OP purchased the older Bogen 3021. The same one that I have. (see post # 43).

The newer Manfrotto version is a slightly different design than the Bogen.

I also have a newer Manfrotto 055 that came with a black plastic clip that can be used as a socket wrench.