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EOTS
10-Jan-2014, 14:31
Hi,

I want to do some black and white portrait work.
Normally I just do E6 slide film, so I want to avoid intensive testing for now (just scanning).
I'm a bit overwhelmed with the thousands of possibilities of the B&W world.

I've developed Xtol and Pyrocat side-by-side (of the same exposures)
and the Pyrocat always came out quite flat with very few density,
so I guess my development times are too short...

I guess I want to have a density range roughly around 3.3 - 3.6, but not those totally low-density negatives,
where (in the context of scanning) you have the data sitting only in a very small slice of the histogram.

Given those constants:
1) Developer: Pyrocat HD with Glycol (bought at Formulary)
2) Agitation: Rotary development with Jobo CPP2, Speed P
3) Water: Distilled
4) Films:
a) Kodak TMax 100
b) Kodak TMax 400
c) Ilford HP5
5) Density Range: somewhere around 3.5 (which I guess could be ideal for drum scanning)

And those variables:
6) Dilution: what you would suggest
7) Temperature: what you would suggest
8) ISO Rating: what you would suggest
9) Development time: what you would suggest

Has someone tested those films
and can suggest proven-over-time factors 6) - 9)
for those given films?

TMax 100 would be the most important, because I've open packs of this film type.

Best regards and thanks,
Martin

sanking
10-Jan-2014, 15:13
[QUOTE=EOTS;1097257]
"I guess I want to have a density range roughly around 3.3 - 3.6, but not those totally low-density negatives,
where (in the context of scanning) you have the data sitting only in a very small slice of the histogram."

You have something confused. A negative with a log density range of 3.3 - 3.6 is not flat, but very high in contrast.

Sandy

EOTS
10-Jan-2014, 15:19
"I guess I want to have a density range roughly around 3.3 - 3.6, but not those totally low-density negatives,
where (in the context of scanning) you have the data sitting only in a very small slice of the histogram."

You have something confused. A negative with a log density range of 3.3 - 3.6 is not flat, but very high in contrast.


Sorry Sandy,

I didn't express myself clearly in my best English.

I do want 3.3 - 3.6 (high contrast),
but was getting perhaps 1.5 - 2.0 (low contrast).

So I should have written "... roughly around 3.3 - 3.6, instead of those total low-density (which I'm currently getting) where ..."

Best regards,
Martin

sanking
10-Jan-2014, 15:35
Hi Martin,

Why do you want such a high contrast negative for scanning? Most experienced scanner operators would recommend that negatives be on the low contrast side for optimum results in scanning. Negatives developed to a low CI are sharper, and have less grain, than those developed to a very high CI.

In printing a negative with a DR of 1.5 - 2.0 would be considered a fairly high contrast negative for silver printing. A range of 3.3 - 3.6 is extremely high contrast, and would print well only with a process like albumen, carbon or salted paper.

Sandy

EOTS
10-Jan-2014, 15:48
Perhaps I'm just used to dealing with slides, where I have the full range from almost transparent to dense.
As my drum scanner is able to deal with a density range of 4.2, I thought it would be ideal to give him as much "data" in the negative as possible,
instead of having only data at around 10-20% of the histogram.

Which DR would you recommend for scanning?
Should I better aim at 2.0 with negative film?

Martin

sanking
10-Jan-2014, 17:49
Ideally I would expose B&W film for the deepest shadows where one would like to see detail, and then develop to a fairly low contrast, say a CI of about .52, perhaps a DR of 1.10. However, with a drum scanner you can develop to a higher or lower CI and still make an excellent scan. But because of the way silver grains work it is best to expose correctly, and develop to a low CI.

If you are using TMAX-100 and developing with Pyrocat-HD you should get plenty of contrast in Jobo with the 1+1+100 dilution at 20 C for 10 minutes. These negatives would be low in contrast and print well in silver with a VC #3 or 3.5.

Sandy

EOTS
10-Jan-2014, 17:52
Sandy, thank you very much for your suggestion!
I will try this the next time as a starting point.

To explain my original intention, here is an example of the two film sets.
They are TMax 100, identically exposed and rated at 50 ISO.
The ones left are developed with Xtol 1:1, the ones right with Pyrocat HD.
I had used the development times from Massive Dev Chart.

On the light table, I had thought that the right one was too flat,
it just had light browns,
but I'm not sure what an ideal negative should look like:
108052

But to my surprise, as I'm scanning right now, the pyro version seems to work quite well:
108053

No issues with Pyrocat and a quick custom CMS setting:
108055

And for the Xtol I've needed a drastic custom CMS setting:
108054

Martin

EOTS
10-Jan-2014, 18:29
Actually, also the histogram looks pretty good with the Pyrocat film.
That's using the Wide Gamut Linear Negative mode of the Howtek 4500 scanner.

http://martinjankoehler.com/gf/pyrocat-and-xtol/pyrocat-histogram.jpg

And Xtol:

http://www.martinjankoehler.com/gf/pyrocat-and-xtol/xtol-histogram.jpg

Can't believe it.
Seems that too dense only looks good on the light table ;-)
I really thought I would have to throw them away judging from the light table ...