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View Full Version : Looking to buy second lens at fair price... recommendations?



Imagowan
7-Jan-2014, 11:11
Hi everyone!

So I have been shooting with my Chamonix 45f1 and Nikkor-W 150 lens. I am interested in getting a lens that can do close up work, certainly something for portraiture, but also possibly macro. The 150 feels neither here nor there to me. I ultimately do not want to spend over $500.00. I am willing to buy used. I like taking pictures of people but don't feel comfortable getting up in their faces (which at times I want to do). As result I always feel I am too far back with the 150. Of course simply getting up the courage to take a few steps forward seems to be the solution, but, I find having the lens close to a person face makes them more aware and less interesting to photograph. I am assuming anything over 210 would be good. At 300 I might need extension bellows, but I may be wrong on this. How do you commit to make a lens purchase? I try to read as much as I can but still feel uncertain.... Any advice, suggestions, and wisdom is greatly appreciated! Ideally nothing too heavy either. Can't have it all though of course

Imagowan
7-Jan-2014, 11:14
side note: what brand make your favorite 4x5 film carriers?

Corran
7-Jan-2014, 11:34
A 210mm or 240mm is pretty standard as a longer lens on 4x5. 210mm lenses are also a dime a dozen.

vinny
7-Jan-2014, 11:53
buy Ari's 210m fujinon W in the classifieds. or a 250mm fujinon 6.7. both of those do well in closeup work and are cheap lately.

They're all fine- fidelity, lisco, any with plastic pull tabs that haven't been through a studio camera thousands of times, they're all the same except for toyo's which are $$$ but really slick. I have 47 4x5 holders which all make fine negatives.

Andrew Plume
7-Jan-2014, 11:58
you cannot go wrong with either Fidelity or Toyo holders

btw, I thought that Toyo were no longer manufacturing them, I may be wrong..................................................

andrew

Alan Gales
7-Jan-2014, 12:36
I stretched my Tachihara bellows out all 13" to see how close I could focus my Fujinon 250mm f6.7 lens. I could do head and shoulder shots, just barely. That's why I also own a Sinar P monorail.

I don't know the bellows extension on your Chamonix.

A monorail is much better than a field camera for portraits and macro anyway. You can pick up a real nice Cambo/Calumet late model monorail for less than $200.00. Add a Cambo to Technika lens board adaptor so you can easily swap lenses back and forth.

Just another option for you. :)

Bill_1856
7-Jan-2014, 12:39
10" Tele-Raptar. Cheap and excellent.

adelorenzo
7-Jan-2014, 12:50
I happen to have a 250mm Fujinon for sale in the classifieds (http://www.largeformatphotography.info/forum/showthread.php?108254-FS-Fujinon-250mm-f6-3), good price and it's a terrific longer or portrait lens on 4x5.

For macro work I would stick to the 150 as you will need a lot of extension.

vinny
7-Jan-2014, 13:03
I happen to have a 250mm Fujinon for sale in the classifieds (http://www.largeformatphotography.info/forum/showthread.php?108254-FS-Fujinon-250mm-f6-3), good price and it's a terrific longer or portrait lens on 4x5.

For macro work I would stick to the 150 as you will need a lot of extension.

I use my 250mm 6.7 at 1:1 on my chamonix 4x5 just fine. All chamonix 4x5's (45n, n-2, f1) will go to 395mm w/o an extension bracket and 500mm with my version of extension bracket. The 150mm nikkor isn't the best choice for macro work. A 150 sironar-s would be better but $$$ if you can find one.

Ken Lee
7-Jan-2014, 13:15
For formulas which tell you how close you can get with a given lens and bellows extension, you might find this article (http://www.kenleegallery.com/html/tech/bellows.php) helpful.

That aside, I second the recommendation of a 210mm lens. It's a wonderful focal length for all purposes - not just portraits - and because they were/are so popular, they are available in great abundance. You might prefer one that takes smaller filters: Nikkor W, Fujinon W, Rodenstock Sironar N all take 67mm filters. Many of the others take larger filters.

Not sure about the current price, but the 210mm Rodenstock Macro Sironar (http://www.kenleegallery.com/html/macroSironar/) excels at close distance and takes 67mm filters.

Jim Becia
7-Jan-2014, 13:32
The 210 is certainly a good recommendation and like several have mentioned, they are extremely reasonable. I would opt for a Fuji 240A or Germinar 240. It gives you a slightly longer focal length and both lenses are very reasonable in size. Recently I have seen the Fuji 240A at some pretty decent prices. I use the Germinar now but had the Fuji at one time. Both are incredibly sharp and I find they both work well for closeups. Not being a portrait person, I will let others be the judge whether they are good for portraiture.

Alan Gales
7-Jan-2014, 13:40
Buy the 210mm Rodenstock Macro Sironar plus a 12" Kodak Commercial Ektar, monorail of your choice and add some new Toyo film holders and you will be all set.

Gee, it's fun spending other people's money! ;)

drew.saunders
7-Jan-2014, 14:09
The Chamonix web site doesn't list the specifications for the F1, but the N1 shows a 395mm maximum bellows extension. Assuming the F1 is the same, with a 300mm lens that needs exactly 300mm extension at infinity (most are a little shorter, see this article for more information: http://www.ebonycamera.com/articles/lenses.html), you can focus to about 1.3m, or 50", which should be enough for portraiture unless you like a very tight head shot. With a 250mm lens, you'll be in the 750-800mm close focus range, and that's plenty close enough for most portrait work.

For portrait work, I use a 165mm f/3.5 Zeiss Tessar from c. 1950, a 180/4.5 Schneider Xenar (Tessar design) from c. 1960, and a 250/4.7 Fujinar (also a Tessar design) from I'm guessing the '70's or maybe early '80's. Yes, I like the look of single-coated Tessars for portraiture.

For used, of course the classifieds here should be your first stop, but also http://www.keh.com, and I've had good luck with http://www.cameraeccentric.com/sale.html as well. There are threads here about other sellers.

The 150 will do 1:1 macro with your camera, assuming 395mm of bellows extension. If you don't need 1:1, I do most of my close-up but not quite macro work with a 200/8 Nikkor-M, which is a very nice, very compact lens. At f/8, it's a little slow for portrait work, but for portability, it's hard to beat.

A 180mm lens might be a good choice for both macro and portrait work, as you'll have a little more distance from your subjects than your 150, but it will still do 1:1 on your 395mm bellows (you need 2x the focal length for 1:1). A lens designed for macro work will give you better results at close distances than a general purpose lens, but you may not personally find that you need, or want, the higher resolution. There are plenty of 180/5.6 and 210/5.6 Plasmat design lenses out there to choose from. 240/5.6 lenses require a #3 shutter, so are quite larger than the 180/5.6 or 210/5.6 lenses, but the Fuji 250/6.3 and 250/6.7 use a #1 shutter, if weight and portability are of concern to you.

Pete Watkins
7-Jan-2014, 14:14
Don't pay silly money!
Look for a Kodak Ektar 203, cheap, great quality (even wide open) and it covers 5x7 for when you upgrade. Good for portraits on 4x5. It's one of the last lenses that I'd get rid of.
Pete.

ps Dunno about 1:1 though.

vinny
7-Jan-2014, 14:21
Drew, you may want to read previous posts first. #9 to be more specific.

The Chamonix web site doesn't list the specifications for the F1, but the N1 shows a 395mm maximum bellows extension. Assuming the F1 is the same, with a 300mm lens that needs exactly 300mm extension at infinity (most are a little shorter, see this article for more information: http://www.ebonycamera.com/articles/lenses.html), you can focus to about 1.3m, or 50", which should be enough for portraiture unless you like a very tight head shot. With a 250mm lens, you'll be in the 750-800mm close focus range, and that's plenty close enough for most portrait work.

For portrait work, I use a 165mm f/3.5 Zeiss Tessar from c. 1950, a 180/4.5 Schneider Xenar (Tessar design) from c. 1960, and a 250/4.7 Fujinar (also a Tessar design) from I'm guessing the '70's or maybe early '80's. Yes, I like the look of single-coated Tessars for portraiture.

For used, of course the classifieds here should be your first stop, but also http://www.keh.com, and I've had good luck with http://www.cameraeccentric.com/sale.html as well. There are threads here about other sellers.

The 150 will do 1:1 macro with your camera, assuming 395mm of bellows extension. If you don't need 1:1, I do most of my close-up but not quite macro work with a 200/8 Nikkor-M, which is a very nice, very compact lens. At f/8, it's a little slow for portrait work, but for portability, it's hard to beat.

A 180mm lens might be a good choice for both macro and portrait work, as you'll have a little more distance from your subjects than your 150, but it will still do 1:1 on your 395mm bellows (you need 2x the focal length for 1:1). A lens designed for macro work will give you better results at close distances than a general purpose lens, but you may not personally find that you need, or want, the higher resolution. There are plenty of 180/5.6 and 210/5.6 Plasmat design lenses out there to choose from. 240/5.6 lenses require a #3 shutter, so are quite larger than the 180/5.6 or 210/5.6 lenses, but the Fuji 250/6.3 and 250/6.7 use a #1 shutter, if weight and portability are of concern to you.

Steven Tribe
7-Jan-2014, 14:54
This is not to be rude, but I have suggested this be moved to lens thread!

Jim Jones
7-Jan-2014, 16:29
Don't pay silly money!
Look for a Kodak Ektar 203, cheap, great quality (even wide open) and it covers 5x7 for when you upgrade. Good for portraits on 4x5. It's one of the last lenses that I'd get rid of.
Pete.

ps Dunno about 1:1 though.

Yes, indeed. One of these lenses was my primary LF lens for decades, and is still often used in preference to an accumulation of other lenses. It is well corrected for macro photography, and very light when backpacking. It is rather close to your 150mm lens, though.

Ken Lee
7-Jan-2014, 17:57
This is not to be rude, but I have suggested this be moved to lens thread!

Done :cool:

John Kasaian
8-Jan-2014, 07:33
I'd look at shorter lenses for close ups, longer lenses for distance, but that's just the way I roll with lenses.
Oh---the answer to your question? Keep the lens you already have until it becomes evident that you need to add another(it sounds like you're already at that point) Fortunately there are plenty of good used lens to choose from that shouldn't break you budget as Corran posted. As for deciding which focal length, consider what others have used that fits in with the perspective you want to achieve. Do your homework and you should have no problem with your "commitment."
OTOH if all you want is a suggestion for what to buy next, hang on to your hat, you'll likely get a ton of 'em!:rolleyes:

Imagowan
9-Jan-2014, 20:58
Everyone thanks so much. All of this is very helpful. I wish chamonix provided a guide of done sort, at least a bit more information about the camera. I once rented a lens that according to fotocare in ny should have fit fine. It didn't. I could barley get it through the opening and it was so round it basically hung on down onto the bellows. I need to make sure I get something appropriate so all of this is great info. Thank you! What is the advantage of this 67 filter ken? What is it? Is it worth investing in extension bellows now or waiting? So many questions. Id be especially curious to start communications with anyone who has the chamonix f1.

Imagowan
9-Jan-2014, 21:35
also would someone be willing to explain the difference between the FS Rodenstock 210mm Apo Sironar N and the 210 Rodenstock macro sironar? someone is selling the former in the listings

Mark Sawyer
9-Jan-2014, 23:32
I am interested in getting a lens that can do close up work, certainly something for portraiture, but also possibly macro. The 150 feels neither here nor there to me...

Use your enlarging lens for macro work. The focal length for lenses appropriate for portraits will be too long for macro work, so forget using one lens for both. 150mm isn't unreasonable for a portrait lens on 4x5. But different photographers have different expectations from portrait lenses, and until you can explain to yourself why your lens isn't working for you and what would be better, you'll just be buying lenses at random.

Mark Sawyer
9-Jan-2014, 23:35
also would someone be willing to explain the difference between the FS Rodenstock 210mm Apo Sironar N and the 210 Rodenstock macro sironar? someone is selling the former in the listings

The Macro Sironar is optimized for focusing at macro distances. You might want to read http://www.largeformatphotography.info/macro.html for some basics.