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View Full Version : Schneider 210mm f/5.6 Super-Symmar XL Lens



neillat
7-Jan-2014, 09:22
Does anyone know if there is any practical advantage of IMAGE QUALITY of the Schneider 210mm f/5.6 Super-Symmar XL Lens compared to the Rodenstock APO Sironar S 240mm. If we can stay focused on image quality that is what I have a need to understand.

vinny
7-Jan-2014, 09:37
well, the 210 xl has a much larger image circle so YES, on big film the 210 will be a better performer.

Louis Pacilla
7-Jan-2014, 09:51
I would think the image quality would be similar in both but the image circle would be the main difference in that the 210 f5.6 Super Symmar XL will have a much larger IC w/ 500 mm IC @f22 and the Rodenstock 240mm f5.6 Sironar S having 372mm IC @f22. So the Super Symmar XL will have a certain advantage over the Sironar S for architectural work.

8x10 user
7-Jan-2014, 11:17
The Sironar S will most likely be slightly sharper within its smaller image circle. If you are looking for a 210 but don't need the giant image circle then you might also want to check out the Apo Sironar W and Super Symmar HM. Both should be more affordable and lighter. The 210 SSXL is a beast of a lens.

Also the Sironar S will have better "bokeh".

neillat
7-Jan-2014, 16:55
The problem I have with the 240, is it has no practical movements on an 8x10, which is really what I want to be able to do with this lens... so the image circle is significant.

Oren Grad
7-Jan-2014, 17:08
The problem I have with the 240, is it has no practical movements on an 8x10...

Huh? I have a 240 Apo-Sironar-S, and it allows a fair amount of room for movement on 8x10. Don't forget that you gain coverage as you focus closer than infinity.

The 210 SS-XL is a very big, very heavy and very expensive lens that solves some very specialized problems. It could be that you do need one, but the cost and handling burden are large enough that it makes sense to think very carefully about it. What specifically are you hoping to accomplish that you think will need the extra coverage? What format do you intend to use, and what kiinds of pictures would you like to make, where you anticipate that coverage will be that big of an issue?

vinny
7-Jan-2014, 19:05
The problem I have with the 240, is it has no practical movements on an 8x10, which is really what I want to be able to do with this lens... so the image circle is significant.

huh?
so you've used the lens then?
No? rent one.
plenty of folks use it on 8x10. Keep in mind that the specs are often very conservative. I'm not saying that if it illuminates an 8x10 ground glass with lots of movement, it'll be just as sharp at the edges as the center but more often than not plenty acceptable.

8x10 user
7-Jan-2014, 19:16
Yes, I have held one of them in my hands... Very big and heavy. The Sironar W was my favorite modern 210mm lens for 8x10. I found the 150 SSXL to be too wide for my tastes and the Sironar W was wicked sharp. Maybe as sharp as the Sironar S... The chromes looked very good when scanned at 5600PPI on the Eversmart Supreme, 10x enlargement no problem with this one. Personally I am big fan of Rodenstock E.D. glass, and the Sironar S/W are said to be some of the sharpest lenses out there. The only thing better then old school Rodenstock glass of the 90's is lanthanum crown but good luck trying to get Schneider or Rodenstock to touch that stuff for an analog camera lens.

When I think of the 210mm SSXL I think of 11x14, a 300 Sironar W, 480mm Apo Symmar, and the big Apo Ronars. Not for the faint of heart or those with light wallets. If you are going to go that route I have a box of 11x14 Provia in the freezer that I will sell for the right price ;)

neillat
7-Jan-2014, 19:53
huh?
so you've used the lens then?
No? rent one.
plenty of folks use it on 8x10. Keep in mind that the specs are often very conservative. I'm not saying that if it illuminates an 8x10 ground glass with lots of movement, it'll be just as sharp at the edges as the center but more often than not plenty acceptable.


Vinny I took a look at your site... you have no reason for lens movement with the work you are shooting, so I can see why you would say what you said.
I have the RS now, and have done some testing on it, at 6ft I can get only just get a plane in focus that is 70 degrees off that plan or 20 degrees from 90 degrees perp to plane.

You guys bring up a good point about renting, I have looked here in NYC and cannot find anyone who still rents this lens, or analogue.... Let me know if you know of someone in NYC. Thanks all!

neillat
7-Jan-2014, 19:55
If anyone has this lens that I can rent from them, that would be fantastic. :)

John Kasaian
7-Jan-2014, 19:55
These are two substantially different focal length lenses. Are you looking for an "all around" lens or a dedicated wide lens?
If you're contact printing I think either lens are capable of giving you excellent results.
Any noticeable disparity isn't going to be in the quality of the glass(Schneider vs Rodenstock, are you kidding me? These are the Teutonic heavy hitters when it comes to quality glass!) but rather will be how wide you need to (or want to) go.
240mm I find is a very useful focal length on the 8x10 and if my day involves any hiking, a lightweight, tack sharp little 240mm f/9 G Claron gets to go!

Oren Grad
7-Jan-2014, 19:58
I have the RS now, and have done some testing on it, at 6ft I can get only just get a plane in focus that is 70 degrees off that plan or 20 degrees from 90 degrees perp to plane.

What are you trying to photograph?

vinny
7-Jan-2014, 20:01
Even though I shoot landscapes mostly, I actually use quite a bit of movements (rise). I also shoot quite a bit of urban work which doesn't appear on my site. Most of my lenses cover 11x14+
Sorry, but I don't understand your schematics in the last post.