E6 and expert drums-why curled film?

[vinny]

It seems that kodak and most fuji films (except velvia 100) stay curled when I pull them from my expert drums (4x5 and 8x10). This makes it tough to give them the final rinse treatment not to mention taking up too much real estate in my drying cabinet. I do all my steps (including washing) in the drum at 100 degrees, with the final rinse done in a tray. How do those of you doing e6 in expert drums deal with this?

[vinny]

c'mon!

[Jim C.]

How bad is the curl ?
Haven't had that happen when I processed Ektachrome, Velvia, and Provia in a expert drum, are you sure you're at 90 - 100ºF ?

[vinny]

on 4x5 the middle of the sheet sticks up about an inch if laid flat. On 8x10 they curl even worse when drying. My drying cabinet has a 150w bulb at the bottom (4ft from the film). And yes, every step is 100 degrees. I pull them from the drum, they stay that shape.


btw, I'm using kodak chemicals.

[Jim C.]

Just wondering if you're using a stockpiled Kodak 5 liter kit or are you breaking down the replenishing chems ?

[Erik Larsen]

Odd problem Vinny, I can't imagine why it's happening. If no one offers an easy solution you might try putting your film in a deep tray of 100 degree water for several minutes before the final rinse/stabilizer to see if that won't release some of the memory from the tank curl and then proceed with the final step. Just a thought...

[vinny]

Jim, on my last 5L kit.
Erik, I'll try that. I figured this was a common issue due to the high temps involved. Damn it.

[Gary Samson]

I would suggest washing the film outside of the tank and you could dry the film in stainless steel hangers.

[polyglot]

Weird. I process Fujichrome (RAP, RDPIII, RVP50) in the Fuji E6 5L kit and 3010 and they do not curl at all. The plastic support is much much stronger than the emulsion; they don't even curl while drying like 120 E6 does.

If your plastic support is curling, I can only imagine that you're incredibly overheating it, maybe during wash?

[Jim C.]

So it's not a chem mix issue if you're following the 5L kit instructions, iirc E6 temp range is 90 -100, I'd check the accuracy of your thermometers but that might not be the case if your developer temps are measured with the same thermometer. I looked thru the Kodak lit on e6 and it's mostly image related issues. Other than what polyglot said about excessive temps is the film really old ?

[vinny]

Jim, much of film IS well past it's expiration date. I don't know why that would give it "memory" but maybe it's possible. Wash temps are 100 degrees. My thermometers are accurate and the resulting chromes are perfect as they have been since I started E6 processing a few years ago.

[koh303]

1. film is not washed enough causing a dry time discrepancy between the base and emulsion - solution: wash longer, in water 24-30C.
2. Dry temp is too high on one side (or both), or dry time is too short (heat to high) - solution: air dry with no heat.
3. possibly a chem mix/old film issue, but that is less likely in my opinion.

[Jim C.]

Have you tried with fresh film ? That may narrow down the reason for the curling,
you never mentioned which side the curl is I assumed emulsion since the emulsion side
faces in on expert drums and the film is curled that way.

[StoneNYC]

I'll take that pesky drum off your hands ;)

[vinny]

I souped a batch of 4x5 and 8x10 yesterday and noticed that all (velvia and velvia 100) but one sheet (E100s) of the 4x5's was curled. All of the 8x10's had curl.
Today I did a batch of c41 (ektar and ilford xp2) and all those came out flat.

Drying is even since the film is hanging. Now using Tetenal chemicals, same results. If I had an intellifaucet and 8x10 film washer, I could try washing outside my expert tanks.

[richardman]

Wait, you only photograph once a year? :-)

[Jim Andrada]

+1 on no curl in Jobo tanks regardless of film/chemistry - E6/C41/B&W - or film size/brand.