Chinese cameras..The Good, Bad & The Ugly?

[PureQuill Photo]

Please forgive a newbie.
I have spent a lot of time reading different threads about what seems to be the 2 most popular Chinese 4x5 field cameras Chamonix & Shen Hao.
So whats the story “The good the bad & the ugly” on these cameras?
We know that Chinese mfg quality can be good (like Appel products!)and improving the more they make, the more they learn and better they get at it.
Are the new models better?
Are there older models to avoid no matter the cheap price?

Like most things in life there is a price point where performance & quality don’t necessarily rise proportionately .
A point of diminishing return on how much more you get for what you spend.
A $100K Mercedes probably isn’t 2x’s as good as $50k Lexus (If you can afford the Mercedes go for it! Why not?)

We all know the saying “Buy the best cry once- buy junk cry twice”
But I believe one can buy smart & smile! ( Think a nice Toyota)
Are these Chinese cameras the smart buy today?
Or is proven quality used gear the best way to go in the long run?

Hope I am not rehashing old threads or starting a Chinese cameras suck/rule war!:(

[Kodachrome25]

I don't really see many complaints about either but my only real experience is with my 45N2 and I find it to be one of the most well engineered and thought out cameras I have used in any format. The focus is so smooth and without backlash it is a dream to use and the tension can be adjusted for things like cold weather and straight down macro work.

I now have hundreds of sheets of 4x5 through the Chamonix, I am so satisfied with it and so married to it's operation that I am not even remotely curious about another camera.

[Daniel Stone]

When I owned my 45N-2, I found it to be a real treat to use. Extremely lightweight, yet quite rigid(not as rigid as a monorail, mind you, but pretty darn close in non-windy conditions).

I wouldn't hesitate to purchase another one down the line, in 4x5 or 5x7/8

cheers,
Dan

[Rolfe Tessem]

I love my Chamonix 45N-2 and, although I also have a Linhof MT, I usually use the Chamonix. It is an extremely well designed and constructed camera. If you buy one, you will not be disappointed.

[vinny]

I've written about both shenhaos and the chamonix here before but I can't find the threads.
there are many differences but overall the chamonix cameras are built of anodized aluminum, carbon fiber* covered wood, and stainless hardware. The shenhao ptb is a copy of the chamonix 45n and the chamonix 45n is a knock-off of the Phillips 4x5 in many ways. If you're choosing between the two, the Chamonix 45n-2 is a winner for maybe just a little more $$ when buying new. Great customer service (hugo zhang) as well.

I had a shenhao hzx452 for a while. It was ok. not that sturdy compared my current 45n-2, heavy, painted metal (stainless?) and limited with longer lenses.

the rest has been covered in so many other threads already. buy a 45n-2 from the classifieds here and resell it for the same price if you don't like it.

*not solid carbon fiber as lots of folks seem to think

[Tin Can]

There are 2 reasons to buy new. The first is you gotta have new, but that's not me. The second is ULF, anything bigger than 8x10 is rare. You want big, you will pay.

There are so many nice condition cameras for sale all the time, just take your pick. Most were perfected decades ago, at least in LF. If a real nice camera needs bellows, do it, it's like a new suit.

The money saved is best spent on film holders, then film and lastly lenses. I put film holders first as good holders can be hard to find. Film is available, buy all you can. Lenses take time to learn and chances are you will change lenses as you start understanding them. Start cheap and get ready for reality.

Chinese cameras are fine, this is old tech, although there is some innovation in camera materials, carbon fiber...

The smart money is a very nice used camera.

[John Kasaian]

LF cameras are like marriage. Feelings might foster a strong attraction, but for the long haul you've got to have the will to want make it all work (camera, film, lens, chemicals, paper etc....) Both these cameras and many others can do the job---LF cameras aren't all that high tech and while innovations are well and good and sometimes useful, I don't think should be the sole criteria for choosing one over the other---but which ever camera you get, want to make it work.
Your prints won't know the price tag on the camera you've used. All your prints are going to be able to tell you is to ask---"is this what you wanted?"
If you can't get your hands on samples of these cameras to study, take a long hard look at their images and see which one sticks in your mind---which camera can you readily see yourself using? To the point of dreaming about using it( if you have dreams.) To the point of wanting to use it. IMHO, that camera might be your best bet. My 2-cents, anyway:)

[Tin Can]

+1


LF cameras are like marriage. Feelings might foster a strong attraction, but for the long haul you've got to have the will to want make it all work (camera, film, lens, chemicals, paper etc....) Both these cameras and many others can do the job---LF cameras aren't all that high tech and while innovations are well and good and sometimes useful, I don't think should be the sole criteria for choosing one over the other---but which ever camera you get, want to make it work.
Your prints won't know the price tag on the camera you've used. All your prints are going to be able to tell you is to ask---"is this what you wanted?"
If you can't get your hands on samples of these cameras to study, take a long hard look at their images and see which one sticks in your mind---which camera can you readily see yourself using? To the point of dreaming about using it( if you have dreams.) To the point of wanting to use it. IMHO, that camera might be your best bet. My 2-cents, anyway:)

[csxcnj]

I'm new to LF photography and my only other experience with a LF camera is a Super Graphic. I have a Chamonix 045F1 and love it. The focusing is smooth, all the knobs are tight and feel and look well made. As a woodworker I think the build and finish is excellent. The camera is light weight and very sturdy. I had one problem with a lock tab that needed a screw adjusted a turn and a touch with a file.

I'm very happy with the 045F1. Using it is very intuitive.

Shen Hao is highly thought of also and can save you a few hundred bucks.

If you choose a Chamonix you will find Hugo Zhang great to deal with.

As Randy said there are lots of good used cameras for sale. I just wanted new and didn't pay THAT much more than buying used would have cost.

[dave_whatever]

In my experience, Chamonix cameras are great quality, I have the 045F1. On the other hand the Shen Hao I used to have (TFC45) was OK but not brilliant, I probably would have to need a really good reason to buy a shen hao again, like Chamonix going out of business and all their existing cameras being taken out of circulation and burned.

[Lachlan 717]

Here as in other threads, you will read "loose" comments on Shens versus Chams. Generalisations and vague opinions.

Although I have used both brands, I won't give you my opinions on which is better. Both are perfectly fine camera brands, as are the other Chinese camera brands I have used.

My only suggestion is to ask for detailed explanations from those posting these vague preferences.

[Brassai]

I started with a Shen Hao, then bought a Chamonix 045n-1. Both are good and are worth what they cost (used.) The Chamonix cost a bit more, and I like it a bit more. I would not buy a new camera unless that was the only way to get one.


Kent in SD

[PureQuill Photo]

I am surprised not much ugly here to read about which is great!
I feel lucky to have so many options available.
So many choices & none seem wrong.
Thank you to all who responded for your input!

[richardman]

Good film holders are hard to find?? *scratch heads* I bought ~30 holders (they grow!!!) and they all work fine.

[evan clarke]

I have 2 Chamonixs, 8x10 and 11x14. Both are superbly made, rigid and light as a feather.

[ic-racer]

This is the "Golden Age" of Chinese Large Format camera offerings. Just look at the many different cameras offered by Shen Hao and Chamonix! It is really incredible.

[gregmo]

I have a Chinese made 617 panoramic camera by Gaoersi. No complaints about the camera after 1.5 yrs. It's probably my single most used camera.

[PureQuill Photo]

At 1st when I joined this forum I thought it sucked that I don’t have access to the classifieds for 30 days.
Now I am glad I have to wait!
Gives me time to learn before I just jump in & buy the 1st "good deal" I find!

[csxcnj]

At 1st when I joined this forum I thought it sucked that I don’t have access to the classifieds for 30 days.
Now I am glad I have to wait!
Gives me time to learn before I just jump in & buy the 1st "good deal" I find!

While you're waiting google large format/YouTube for various cameras, focusing, tripods, ancillary gear, you name it. Lots of informative and interesting stuff to watch.

[PureQuill Photo]

While you're waiting google large format/YouTube for various cameras, focusing, tripods, ancillary gear, you name it. Lots of informative and interesting stuff to watch.

Thanks
I have been enjoying all the info on youtube. The amount of info is amazing :cool: