Quality 4x5 and 5x7 Film Holders

[C_Remington]

So, my 2014 new years resolution is to minimize my gear and equipment but focus on quality (not quantity).

Can someone recommend the top two or three holder brands?

thanx much in advance.

[BrianShaw]

The only film holders I have ever "had a problem with" are wooden. All of the others of "plastic" manufacture, whether vintage Riteways or more modern Lisco/Fidelity, have worked well for me. The most important part is the condition of the individual holder. In good shape, you'll be good. In questionable shape, and you'll wonder if you are going to be good.

Read this if you haven't already: http://www.largeformatphotography.info/holders.html

[Heroique]

Also, no matter the quality of the holder, no matter if new or used, no matter how well or poorly you treat them, be sure to keep careful field notes so you always know – even years down the road – which film sheets came from which holder and on which side.

Be a good detective before you have to be a good detective!

[Leigh]

Well, in recent years Fidelity, Riteway, and Lisco were all made by the same company.

I've been told that Toyo are the best available. I have a couple dozen of them, and I believe they are.

My favorite holders are the latest Riteway, with the automatic slide lock.
These have a feature than prints numbers outside the image border. Very handy.

- Leigh

[Alan Gales]

I have also heard that Toyo's are the best. I acquired a few mint ones with a used 4x5 camera purchase and kept them. They are pretty nice. I wish I had some of the 8x10 ones.

[lbenac]

I have Toyo and Chamonix as my best holders.
But I also have 40 or so old Riteway with the metal handle for traveling when loading film on the go is not really an option.

[Sal Santamaura]

Toyo holders are the best 4x5s mechanically (Toyo never made 5x7s), but, if you purchase new or "newish," you'd better have a very poor sense of smell:


http://www.largeformatphotography.info/forum/showthread.php?8417-Reeking-film-holders

[John Kasaian]

My very best 4x5 holders are the older style Riteways. Being a luddite, I don't think the new ones are nearly as good---too gimmicky for me.
For 5x7 I'd look for Bacos(not the salad topping!) In fact, I am looking for 5x7 Bacos!

[Leigh]

My very best 4x5 holders are the older style Riteways. Being a luddite, I don't think the new ones are nearly as good---too gimmicky for me.
The numeric imprint on the negatives is an integral aspect of my documentation.

Those correlate with my shooting notes without any possible error, as can occur with numbering only the storage sleeves.

- Leigh

[Tin Can]

Interesting to note that the link points out Grafmatics are best in 'T', perhaps a steel holder is simply easier to machine to size.


The only film holders I have ever "had a problem with" are wooden. All of the others of "plastic" manufacture, whether vintage Riteways or more modern Lisco/Fidelity, have worked well for me. The most important part is the condition of the individual holder. In good shape, you'll be good. In questionable shape, and you'll wonder if you are going to be good.

Read this if you haven't already: http://www.largeformatphotography.info/holders.html

[smithdoor]

I use both
Riteway and Fidelity I gotten some new and use all work the same (no light leak )
I at point have to many. Try to fill all is costly now I trimming back I only need 24 shots to much money in cut film holders today.

Dave


So, my 2014 new years resolution is to minimize my gear and equipment but focus on quality (not quantity).

Can someone recommend the top two or three holder brands?

thanx much in advance.

[Shootar401]

I have wooden, plastic and metal film holders and I can't say I see a difference between them. Personally I like the wooden ones for 8x10 and plastic and 5x7 and 4x5.

[Patrick13]

I'm not a heavy user of 4x5 right now, but from an amateur's viewpoint:

I have a wonderful Grafmatic holder that works with 6 sheets, it's a challenge to load in a small bag but nice when I have a shot set up and want to run more than one exposure.
I've also got several, old Riteway 4x5s and not a moment of trouble with any of 'em and I'm pretty ham fisted sometimes.

[Ari]

Only Toyo for 4x5 and 8x10.

I used to use Fidelity/Riteway/Agfa/Kodak but here's the thing: all of those, no matter how new, had significant discrepancies when measuring film plane depth.
These discrepancies were from one holder to the next, and from one side of a holder to the other side; sometimes by as much as 1,5mm.

The Toyos, at least all of mine, are all within 0.1mm (or less) of each other.

I got rid of everything and slowly built up a cache of Toyos.

An excellent film holder is money well-spent.

[angusparker]

Another vote for Toyo in 4x5. Buy new don't skimp. Easy to load and unload. Smooth dark slide action. No leaks and high tolerances.

[StoneNYC]

Only Toyo for 4x5 and 8x10.

I used to use Fidelity/Riteway/Agfa/Kodak but here's the thing: all of those, no matter how new, had significant discrepancies when measuring film plane depth.
These discrepancies were from one holder to the next, and from one side of a holder to the other side; sometimes by as much as 1,5mm.

The Toyos, at least all of mine, are all within 0.1mm (or less) of each other.

I got rid of everything and slowly built up a cache of Toyos.

An excellent film holder is money well-spent.

Really!?? Are you sure? I can't believe they would all be so off and no one made a fuss or I haven't seen more complaints.

What about the bad smell of the TOYO holders? I've heard the new plastic is repulsive..?

[Michael Graves]

Another brand to keep an eye out for is the Studio Pro. They have a build almost exactly like Toyo holders, with the riveted body. The dark slides are brushed aluminum instead of plastic. I have about twenty of them. I sold a bunch more a while back and have been kicking myself ever since. But I suppose twenty holders is enough for a rank amateur.

[Tin Can]

0.1mm = 0.004 inches and well within spec of this chart.

http://home.earthlink.net/~eahoo/page8/filmhold.ht

Holders and GG can be difficult to measure across the FP reliably.

And don't forget film thickness.

How about checking actual return to 'your correct' focus plane with the rather coarse gearing on most LF cameras?

DOF?

[Ari]

Really!?? Are you sure? I can't believe they would all be so off and no one made a fuss or I haven't seen more complaints.

What about the bad smell of the TOYO holders? I've heard the new plastic is repulsive..?

Yes, my numbers may be off (going on memory here), but I do recall that every holder except Toyo had a fair amount of discrepancy.
The worst were the woodies.

[Ari]

0.1mm = 0.004 inches and well within spec of this chart.

http://home.earthlink.net/~eahoo/page8/filmhold.ht

Holders and GG can be difficult to measure across the FP reliably.

And don't forget film thickness.

How about checking actual return to 'your correct' focus plane with the rather coarse gearing on most LF cameras?

DOF?

Randy, my memory isn't great; I might be wrong on the exact number, but I certainly remember the discrepancy varying greatly among the non-Toyo holders, and that the number(s) was not within specifications.
And I did use a sheet of film and electronic callipers.

The reason I did all that was because I kept getting soft photos where they should have been sharp and vice versa.

[Tin Can]

Ari, I don't doubt your numbers, I just had to have an 11x14 back adjusted to fit any holder, to within a standard 'T' distance. It was out of tolerance by at least 3 mm. Even this blind man can see that.

Seems the ancient ones were not always correct.


Randy, my memory isn't great; I might be wrong on the exact number, but I certainly remember the discrepancy varying greatly among the non-Toyo holders, and that the number(s) was not within specifications.
And I did use a sheet of film and electronic callipers.

The reason I did all that was because I kept getting soft photos where they should have been sharp and vice versa.

[Sal Santamaura]

Only Toyo for 4x5 and 8x10.

I used to use Fidelity/Riteway/Agfa/Kodak but here's the thing: all of those, no matter how new, had significant discrepancies when measuring film plane depth.
These discrepancies were from one holder to the next, and from one side of a holder to the other side; sometimes by as much as 1,5mm.

The Toyos, at least all of mine, are all within 0.1mm (or less) of each other.

I got rid of everything and slowly built up a cache of Toyos.

An excellent film holder is money well-spent.


Really!?? Are you sure? I can't believe they would all be so off and no one made a fuss or I haven't seen more complaints...Without checking Ari's numbers against some old paper records I can't readily put my hands on, it's not possible to answer quantitatively. However, as I wrote just over four months ago in the second part of this post


http://www.largeformatphotography.info/forum/showthread.php?8417-Reeking-film-holders&p=1058534&viewfull=1#post1058534,



"A bit more than 15 years ago, when Calumet was still a photo retailer that carried something I'm interested in, I bought a dozen 8x10 Lisco holders from its local store. While the Lisco holders exuded no actual smell, their manufacturing tolerances stunk, as did those of Fidelity and Riteway holders made in the same plant. I arrived with some precision ground bar stock and a depth gauge. In order to select twelve Lisco holders for purchase, it was necessary to measure and reject approximately two dozen more which were seriously outside the ANSI specification's tolerances.

Toyo holders have never exceeded ANSI specifications when measured the same way. That's why I had four of them in 8x10 and 10 in 4x5. Since new production Toyos stink, I've kept an eye out for NOS opportunities. This has lead to my acquiring two more 8x10s and eight more 4x5s, the latter from Kerry Thalmann a few years back. Sharp negatives and a happy olfactory system have been the result."


...What about the bad smell of the TOYO holders? I've heard the new plastic is repulsive..?Olfactory sensitivity/threshold seems to vary radically from person to person. Toyo holders (since parts were sourced outside Japan) as well as the bellows on some cameras and numerous Chinese textiles knock me over, even many feet away in the same room. Others can't even detect an odor when right next to these items.

[StoneNYC]

Without checking Ari's numbers against some old paper records I can't readily put my hands on, it's not possible to answer quantitatively. However, as I wrote just over four months ago in the second part of this post


http://www.largeformatphotography.info/forum/showthread.php?8417-Reeking-film-holders&p=1058534&viewfull=1#post1058534,



"A bit more than 15 years ago, when Calumet was still a photo retailer that carried something I'm interested in, I bought a dozen 8x10 Lisco holders from its local store. While the Lisco holders exuded no actual smell, their manufacturing tolerances stunk, as did those of Fidelity and Riteway holders made in the same plant. I arrived with some precision ground bar stock and a depth gauge. In order to select twelve Lisco holders for purchase, it was necessary to measure and reject approximately two dozen more which were seriously outside the ANSI specification's tolerances.

Toyo holders have never exceeded ANSI specifications when measured the same way. That's why I had four of them in 8x10 and 10 in 4x5. Since new production Toyos stink, I've kept an eye out for NOS opportunities. This has lead to my acquiring two more 8x10s and eight more 4x5s, the latter from Kerry Thalmann a few years back. Sharp negatives and a happy olfactory system have been the result."

Olfactory sensitivity/threshold seems to vary radically from person to person. Toyo holders (since parts were sourced outside Japan) as well as the bellows on some cameras and numerous Chinese textiles knock me over, even many feet away in the same room. Others can't even detect an odor when right next to these items.

Hmm my olfactory senses are very heightened, no good for me. I guess I'll have to stick to my GRAFLEX holders made decades ago, somehow those all come out in focus ;)

[Ari]

Hmm my olfactory senses are very heightened, no good for me. I guess I'll have to stick to my GRAFLEX holders made decades ago, somehow those all come out in focus ;)

I can't say I've had any trouble with any 4x5 holder, they all seem fine, the older ones are prone to leaks, but no issues with film plane distances.
Still, I switched to Toyo 4x5s because I like the way the film sat in the holder; it seemed to have almost no wiggle room.