Currently available VC papers?

[Kirk Gittings]

I've run out of my "stash" of variable contrast papers and need to restock. I'm looking for a very neutral paper that will tone cool purple in selenium and a warm based paper that will stay slightly warm when selenium toned. Please give me your thoughts on current paper/developer combinations. Thanks.

[Erik Larsen]

I'm partial to ilford warmtone, it's not the warmest out there compared to foma for example but it has a great look IMO using regular old dektol and krst. For that purple look you might try oriental, it goes quite purple in krst with a longish time in the toner or perhaps the new ilford cool tone paper might fit your criteria but I have no experience with it yet. I think we are spoiled at the moment with a good variety of multigrade options.

[Jan Pedersen]

As Erik I am also partial to Ilford warmtone, it just have the right amount of warm tone without being completely brown.
The new offerings from Ilford sounds very interesting. The classic MGIV IV has been reformulated to accept toners better and is now called Classic and in addition, a new Cooltone paper is also available from Ilford.
They just became available this last week except for those priviledged to have been testing these new papers.

[Merg Ross]

I've run out of my "stash" of variable contrast papers and need to restock. I'm looking for a very neutral paper that will tone cool purple in selenium and a warm based paper that will stay slightly warm when selenium toned. Please give me your thoughts on current paper/developer combinations. Thanks.

Any result will of course depend somewhat on the choice of developer and time/concentration of toner. I am not a fan of selenium toner, so can't help you there. Not to say I have not used it from time to time. That said, I have been using the Adox 110 for the past few years and would rank it at the top of my list. The Ilford Warmtone works for some things and certainly should be among your choices.

The new Ilford papers (Cool & Classic) I have just received and will be testing before the year is out. My initial test developer will be phenidone based but will also try my standby choice of many years, the old Ansco glycine developer 130. I plan to tone both papers with selenium for my own education. Check out the Adox paper if you haven't already.

Best to you and yours in the coming year, Kirk.

Merg

[mathieu Bauwens]

Adox MCC 110 for me too.

[Robert Bowring]

Oriental paper tones very well in selenium.

[Eric Biggerstaff]

Foma Fomabrom Varient - Slightly warm of neutral, bright white base, tones very nicely (Selenium 1+10, 2 minutes), Glossy (surface 111)

Adox 110 - Bright white base, slightly warm of neutral, very nice surface, tones great (same as above)

Oriental VC FB - Neutral to cool tone, bright white base, tones cooler and will be slightly purple, (Selenium 1+10, 3 minutes)

Arista EDU Ultra - Very nice paper, bright white base, slightly warm of neutral, tones quickly to warmer, can go red if to long, Selenium 1+10 - 1-2 miuntes, well priced and on sale, see Foma above

Ilford Warmtone - used to be my primary paper, deep rich blacks and tones very well, slower than some papers, great for some things but a bit too warm for my current taste, expensive

Ilford MGFB IV - well known, neutral, doesn't tone overly easily in Selenium, high quality and a little expensive

Ilford Classic - Like Merg, I just got 100 sheets and will be testing this next week, according to Alan Ross it is a very nice paper that tones well, told me "it is an excellent paper"

I develop either in Clayton P-20 at 1+6 for 2 minutes for a more neutral tone or in Ansco 130 for 2 minutes for a slightly warmer tone one these papers. I have used several thousand sheets of the Foma and Arista papers and like them very much. I have also used a lot of the Adox and enjoy it as well, I find it similar to the Foma / Arista. For my recent work, I went back to Ilford MG FB IV as I wanted a more neutral tone in the sky and clouds and it has worked great, I also am developing it in Dektol 1+2 for 2 minutes, so pretty much a classic approach with that paper.

I am looking forward to testing the Ilford Classic and if it tones in a way I like, I can see using it much more.

[Kodachrome25]

Nice breakdown Eric...

[Kevin Crisp]

With the Oriental product, it will tone a little cooler but not go purple if you dilute 1:31. There is a tonal shift after just 3 minutes or so, but it is suble. If you have an untoned print in a tray of water next to the one you're toning, then you will see the effect clearly. It is a very nice paper. I have to try the Ilford Classic.

[David Karp]

I was using and really liked the VC Kentmere, but that is gone now. Luckily, I tried the ADOX MCC110 right before Ilford cancelled the Kentmere paper. I love that paper, and it was going to replace the Kentmere in my arsenal anyway.

The MCC110 has very nice deep rich blacks and depending on the developer the blacks can go warm or neutral/cold. It was nice in Zonal Pro Warmtone, and I love it in AGFA100, which I mix based on the recipe in the Darkroom Cookbook. I tone it in very dilute selenium toner, so I don't know how purple it will go.

The Oriental VC is also very nice, as is the Arista.EDU Ultra. I have examples of all these papers hanging near each other, as well as examples of Ilford MGFB. My favorite is the MCC110. I am interested in trying the new Ilford paper, but mostly out of curiosity. I really like the MCC110. (Have I mentioned that?)

[andreios]

Didn't know the Kentmere was gone..
Anyway, just to add to Eric's post, Foma makes the Fomabrom Variant in matte surface (112) and a particularly nice velvet (123). They also make warm tone emulsion Fomatone in various surface and paper base, in right developer is really not that warm. But e.g. the 532 Nature is particularly nice..

[Eric Biggerstaff]

I forgot about the Fomatone Andreios! It is a very nice paper indeed and as you say, it really doesn't go all that warm. I have used it with Clayton P-20 and like the tone very much.

[Roger Cole]

I was using and really liked the VC Kentmere, but that is gone now. Luckily, I tried the ADOX MCC110 right before Ilford cancelled the Kentmere paper. I love that paper, and it was going to replace the Kentmere in my arsenal anyway.

The MCC110 has very nice deep rich blacks and depending on the developer the blacks can go warm or neutral/cold. It was nice in Zonal Pro Warmtone, and I love it in AGFA100, which I mix based on the recipe in the Darkroom Cookbook. I tone it in very dilute selenium toner, so I don't know how purple it will go.

The Oriental VC is also very nice, as is the Arista.EDU Ultra. I have examples of all these papers hanging near each other, as well as examples of Ilford MGFB. My favorite is the MCC110. I am interested in trying the new Ilford paper, but mostly out of curiosity. I really like the MCC110. (Have I mentioned that?)

I really like MCC110 too, but I've never gotten a really cool tone out of it, and this is the first I've heard of anyone doing so. I agree it's slightly warm untoned, tones slowly and cools to neutral without going purple unless you overdo it. But overdoing it can yield a very slight purple but not what I'd call a cool black. Those who think MGIV doesn't tone in selenium won't think MCC 110 does as it tones much slower in selenium. In comparison I find MGIV easy to overtone into a purple I don't like. I have some of the MGIV in 8x10 to test in comparison but didn't get around to it before MG Classic came out. I'm looking forward to trying that one and the Cooltone.

Ilford MGWT is a very, very fine paper, well worth the cost if a moderately WT paper suits your needs.

[Kirk Gittings]

Great info all! Thanks.

[Kirk Gittings]

So after looking at a friends prints on this paper. I ended up getting Arista EDU Ultra FB VC Glossy. It was also on sale at the time which was nice. It is very neutral in Dektol and fast-at least a stop faster than my last paper. It has minor dry down-I'm guessing 3-5% which is pretty good and selenium tones very quickly to a warmish purple (1/12) with significant gain in DMax if you let it go awhile. Nice paper and very reasonably priced compared to a similar Ilford.

[bob carnie]

Ilford Warmtone

my 2cents

[Andrew O'Neill]

Oriental. My 5 cents cuz we don't use pennies up here anymore....:)

[bob carnie]

I still have a bunch.

Oriental. My 5 cents cuz we don't use pennies up here anymore....:)

[jeroldharter]

Ilford Warmtone in Dektol 1:2 with KRST 1:20 for 2-3 minutes

[Gregg Cook]

Ilford Warmtone in Dektol 1:2 with KRST 1:20 for 2-3 minutes

This much I knew.....

The rest of this thread is priceless....... The MCC sounds just like old Agfa MCC.... I bought a ton when it was discontinued.

I have Kentmere too, so my paper stock is really getting more vaLuable.... I still have a little bit of brovira grade 5.

I love how it tones in sepia. Kentmere in selenium. What is the equivalent? Oriental is different. I don't use it much.

I want a really warm warmtone. Ilford is good, but I want something more red. I may have to work it on the toner end.

[Greg Y]

Since the OP asked about neutral papers that tonesomwhat warm, has anyone got comments on the new Ilford 'classic' FB?

[Drew Wiley]

MGWT will easily go reddish in certain toners. I won't go into detail, because I don't like that kind of hue for my own prints at all. But I'd start with a developer like
130. Dektol is not as flexible once the toning color shift occurs. MCC is NOT just like the old Agfa - the nuance difference are significant, even if there is a general
similarity. I've never gotten a true cold tone out of it. For that effect, now that my Kentmere Fineprint is diminishing, I've started using the new MG Cooltone in
amidol, followed by gold toning.

[Eric Biggerstaff]

There are a couple of different threads on the new psper. Might be a good idea to combine them.

[natelfo]

I personally have only used Ilford MGIV VC papers, neutral, cool, and warm. I love them so much, I haven't tried anything else. I eventually will branch out into some other papers, probably Kentmere (I have heard great things about it as well), but for now, I have not found any shortcomings that would make me want to switch. The MGIV will not tone purple (that I have seen) as far as neutral goes, but the warm tone paper does give a nice chocolate brown with a purplish hue. The neutral really turns more of a stark neutral, as opposed to the slightly yellowish tint from no selenium. The cool tone paper gives more contrast, and a slight blueish tone. Others may have found otherwise by using more concentrated selenium and for longer soak times (I use 1+9 for about 10 minutes at most), but I have not seen what you mean by a purplish tone with neutral paper and selenium.

[Bob Farr]

Hi,
Some excellent comments on paper types, developer and toning. My experience with Bergger VC FB WA semi-gloss developed in Ansco 130 has been very good.
bf

[Rafal Lukawiecki]

MGWT FB in Ryuji Suzuki DS-14 developer with 0.3g BTA/l working solution is fairly cool, for this paper, with blueish tones. Se 1+9 ca. 2 min will warm it back, but in a pleasant, unique way. Currently, I use this combination a lot. MGWT in Ansco/PF 130, with the same amount of BTA is not as cool as in DS-14, but ends a bit more purple after Se. In general, higher contrast filtration will lead to cooler-neutral after-Se look, and softer will tend towards red-brown. If you are aware of this split tendency it can be quite useful.

Couple of threads on these MGWT cooling attempts:

http://www.apug.org/forums/forum37/116286-cool-neutral-tone-diy-developer-warm-tone-paper-magic-compounds.html
http://www.apug.org/forums/forum37/124621-mgwt-moersch-se3-cold.html