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calibre61
20-Dec-2013, 01:57
Is there anyone out there having problems with Deardorf? contacting them is a nightmare are they still in business ?????

analoguey
20-Dec-2013, 02:07
Look at the buyer seller advisories. There are tons of people with issues.

goamules
20-Dec-2013, 05:18
Almost everyone is having problems with that company. Many people have made the huge down payment, been promised cameras, and haven't heard from them in over a year. No one knows how many cameras they've actually delivered (At least one or two were, usually very late), or have been ordered. It's a black hole for your money.

zelph
20-Dec-2013, 08:35
If you buy anything from them and actually want to get it - do so on EBay.
He fills EBay auction orders immediately. Others seem to be a matter of 'I'll do it when I get around to it'.

calibre61
20-Dec-2013, 09:55
Do not buy anything from this company, they don't deserve to use the name of Deardorf.....a highly recognised and respected company......ruined !!!!!!

Michael Kadillak
20-Dec-2013, 14:34
Buy a used camera, do your own repairs and above all - Have a Great Day.

jnantz
20-Dec-2013, 19:47
this stinks ...

just after ron wisner closed shop with years of web postings (like this)
deardorf resurrected like the phoenix to fill the void ... and it seems like they are more like icarus ...

:(

Jim Graves
20-Dec-2013, 21:21
...
deardorf resurrected like the phoenix to fill the void ... and it seems like they are more like icarus ...

:(

Yes ... mythical references seem appropriate.

calibre61
21-Dec-2013, 06:44
They are still taking orders over their website and cannot deliver.......an ashamed way to do business...almost criminal

Jac@stafford.net
21-Dec-2013, 09:23
Something can be done, over time by keeping Deardorff in the BBB loop. See below.

http://www.bbb.org/chattanooga/business-reviews/photography-sales-by-mail/deardorff-cameras-in-cleveland-tn-40078871

tgtaylor
21-Dec-2013, 09:44
Strange...their ebay store does a lively business with good feedback. Maybe they have assembly problems and can only sell parts?

Thomas

jnantz
21-Dec-2013, 09:49
Yes ... mythical references seem appropriate.

;) thanks jim, i try and once in a while i get them right ...
too bad i am not taking the SATs again

csxcnj
21-Dec-2013, 09:58
Strange...their ebay store does a lively business with good feedback. Maybe they have assembly problems and can only sell parts?

Thomas

Then they really shouldn't be taking people's money for complete cameras.

William Whitaker
21-Dec-2013, 10:16
Gotta pay for that trip to China somehow!

Michael Kadillak
21-Dec-2013, 11:42
I suspect that 100% of the people bashing Deardorff are not potential customers anyway. In all honesty what I strongly feel we have here is an owner that is seriously underestimating his delivery time and overestimating his ability to perform on schedule. If one were to double the time for delivery you would not be disappointed. I have yet to hear of anyone that legitimately lost their deposit.

When I left a message for Barry I was kind and very polite and he returned my call we had a very pleasant conversation. And he took care of me just fine and I would do business with him again in a country minute and likely will. I did not go ballistic and start leaving threatening and personally demeaning voice mails which he intimated was the case on this subject. If you must have a new Deardorff there are no other options so you either accept the fact that your camera will likely be completed beyond the estimated time or rethink your objectives. It is that simple. Until someone can point to a lost deposit or a case of financial loss in this business I say this situation has been document ad nauseum and it is time to move on. The viewing audience clearly gets it.

Merry Christmas!

Dan Fromm
21-Dec-2013, 12:09
Michael, I'm not likely to buy a new Deardorff or any other new 4x5 or larger camera and I'm neutral about the Cochrans. I hope they succeed.

However, I've just visited their site and it still offers "estimated delivery time" no longer than "3 months from delivery date." They'd defuse a lot of hostility by giving more realistic estimates. Given complaints from buyers (not kibitzers, but people who'd made down payments) the published estimated delivery times aren't honest, they're lies.

Re lost deposits, it seems to me that waiting two years for delivery when the estimate was no more than three months counts as a loss.

Cheers,

Dan

karl french
21-Dec-2013, 13:07
Michael, your characterization of the Deardorff bashers is way off base. Quite a few people paid money for cameras and failed to receive them or when they finally did, the cameras were poorly assembled. There is a history of problems over the last two years. It's sad, because I had high hopes for this new incarnation of Deardorff.

Jac@stafford.net
21-Dec-2013, 13:17
I would do business with him again in a country minute

Country minutes must be very long.

Michael Kadillak
21-Dec-2013, 13:28
Michael, your characterization of the Deardorff bashers is way off base. Quite a few people paid money for cameras and failed to receive them or when they finally did, the cameras were poorly assembled. There is a history of problems over the last two years. It's sad, because I had high hopes for this new incarnation of Deardorff.

OK. If I am way off base please point to the camera buyers that have contributed to this post that have been personally disadvantaged? I know several clients that have finally received their cameras and had problems that were eventually taken care of as was my experience. All I am saying is that if you have ever run a small business and are carrying a note from the bank that needs to be attended to you know first hand the challenges that go along with the territory. That is why over 70% of folks that go down this road fail.

Ask yourself this question. "Would I rather have no Deardorff Camera Company or one that operates at 50% efficiency?" In a perfect world we would ALL want a perfectly managed and efficient company but we do not have any control of these variables.

Me personally I would opt for the company to be in business and hope that they get better because I am naturally an optimist and would rather not order the firing squad unnecessarily. The market will take care of this if that is what needs to happen. Any possible Deardorff buyer in the global market is well aware of the condition so we do not continue to espouse the buyer beware mantra.

Michael Kadillak
21-Dec-2013, 13:36
Country minutes must be very long.

Yes they are as a matter of fact. In the midst of Wisners debacle very analogous to this situation I ordered an entire ULF camera back to convert my 11x14 technical field to 12x20 along with an 12x20 to 8x20 reducing back. Why? Because it was the best option available to get me what I wanted. I used Quality Camera as an intermediary and it came back from Wisner very poorly made and Richard Ritter fixed it for me and it took a very long time. Instead of whining about it I went out and made some photographs. I was pleased as punch to have the ability to use it.

csxcnj
21-Dec-2013, 13:56
I suspect that 100% of the people bashing Deardorff are not potential customers anyway. In all honesty what I strongly feel we have here is an owner that is seriously underestimating his delivery time and overestimating his ability to perform on schedule. If one were to double the time for delivery you would not be disappointed. I have yet to hear of anyone that legitimately lost their deposit.

When I left a message for Barry I was kind and very polite and he returned my call we had a very pleasant conversation. And he took care of me just fine and I would do business with him again in a country minute and likely will. I did not go ballistic and start leaving threatening and personally demeaning voice mails which he intimated was the case on this subject. If you must have a new Deardorff there are no other options so you either accept the fact that your camera will likely be completed beyond the estimated time or rethink your objectives. It is that simple. Until someone can point to a lost deposit or a case of financial loss in this business I say this situation has been document ad nauseum and it is time to move on. The viewing audience clearly gets it.

Merry Christmas!

Michael, I ws a potential Deardorff buyer while researching my first field camera purchase. That ended very quickly after a google search exposed all the problems with the company.

In regards to it being simply a time to completion underestimation on the Cochrans part, I have read accounts from numerous people who have been lied to over and over for better than a year. If that was the problem they could solve it easily by taking stock of the orders, prioritizing them, and comunicating honestly with their customers.

Your statement that if they simply doubled their estimated delivery time everything would be fine does not add up. Two times three months is six months. Many complaints are from people who have been waiting one to two years. And have been told over and over "the camera is almost in the mail".....

I would still buy a Deardorff If the Cochrans righted the ship, but they are not going to. They can afford a trip to China but can't deliver merchandise bought and paid for, give customers false promises, avoid customers and have sent out reported shoddy goods. They are in a business death spiral. I'm in the construction building/maintenance business as a self employed subcontractor and have seen this show countless times. It is sad.

Merry Christmas

William Whitaker
21-Dec-2013, 14:04
It's very disappointing to see this issue continuing on. A few years ago I spent time with Barry over several dinners as he told me of his great plans to resurrect the Deardorff company. We discussed at some length the pitfalls associated with it, especially in light of other large format camera businesses that had generated a lot of mistrust in our small corner of the econo-sphere. The "Wisner business model" was one which we agreed wholeheartedly he should avoid. I'm neither a sage nor a business wizard, but I did tell him at that time that I felt it was paramount that he maintain full communications with his clients, something he has not done. And I count myself among those since he has stiffed me for $500 since that time with no explanation. But somehow he found the funds for a trip to China. I don't care whose definition of "minute" we use, I won't be doing any business with him. Period.

Noah B
21-Dec-2013, 17:15
A few years ago when I had a V8 I ordered parts on ebay to upgrade the leather strap. They didn't come with instructions so I called them up and they emailed me the installation info. I also orderd a brand new 8x10 back from them on ebay and I got it within a few days of purchase. I've read all the horror stories about Wisner company and you have to take into account how small of an operation they have going on. The orders pile up and there aren't enough workers to fill them as fast as they can. More orders pile in over time and it just adds up. I mean really, Deardorff cameras are an American classic and who wouldn't want a chance to get a brand new one from their shop? The LF community here is huge and there are more people out there who absolutely have to have a brand new Deardorff. 1 to 2 years is an absurd amount of time to wait without prior knowledge of that wait time. It's poor business to have customers wait that long when you didn't say it in the first place. If I had the money I'd get a chamonix because they seem to be able to fulfill their orders and you don't hear anybody bad-mouthing them. BBB is a great source though, I had to report a camera repairman once because he kept my camera for 8 months and never replied to my phone calls. He sent my camera back and called me a "dumby" LOL.

Sal Santamaura
21-Dec-2013, 17:37
...I have yet to hear of anyone that legitimately lost their deposit...Until someone can point to a lost deposit or a case of financial loss in this business I say this situation has been document ad nauseum and it is time to move on...There's only one thing that, when lost, cannot be recovered by any one of us: time. It's the most precious commodity we finite mortals possess.


..."Would I rather have no Deardorff Camera Company or one that operates at 50% efficiency?"...My answer is "c. No Deardorff Camera Company and a re-started R.H. Phillips and Sons camera company." :D I declined Dick's recent suggestion to take up repairing existing and/or manufacturing new Phillips cameras. Fortunately, I bought all the Phillips products I'll ever need when they, and his honorable business practices, were still available. :) Unfortunately not everyone had that opportunity, so they are restricted to inferior designs and "manufacturers" like Deardorff. :D:D

Jac@stafford.net
21-Dec-2013, 18:05
There's only one thing that, when lost, cannot be recovered by any one of us: time. It's the most precious commodity we finite mortals possess.

So true to individuals who live in the moment; brief opportunities for captures.

I do not want to stir controversy, but to me Deardorff is a studio camera, or one not to be carried more than a thousand feet from the vehicle.

I wonder why anyone really wants one. It is an overweight, tedious to use appliance.

And yes, I have one.

Peace,
J

sanking
21-Dec-2013, 19:29
"Unfortunately not everyone had that opportunity, so they are restricted to inferior designs and "manufacturers" like Deardorff."

Actually the Chamonix cameras, and many cameras in Shen-Hao line, incorporate some of the fundamental design characteristics of the Phillips cameras. The imitation is fairly obvious, and has been discussed before on this forum.

Deardorff is a very old design and, yes, a bit overweight IMO compared to many other designs.


Sandy

Fred L
21-Dec-2013, 20:32
I have friends who are serious amateur astronomers and what they spend on gear makes our expenditures seem like small change. One company (Astrophysics) is so in demand that people will go on their waiting list, with no deposit as I understand it, and sit in line for many years. When their name comes up they can still buy the scope or mount or let the next in line get it.

I understand this is apples and oranges but just a different perspective on a business model and demand. I also have no dog in this scrap but it's just sad to read about members here being, imo, stiffed and lied to.

karl french
21-Dec-2013, 20:34
All things considered, I'd rather have a Deardorff.

calibre61
22-Dec-2013, 05:55
I am a supplier of an item for Deardorf cameras, which without you cannot sell a camera. I have outstanding invoices from the company which are more than long overdue, if people are not receiving cameras i am not surprised " they are not able to complete any" i know this is an inappropriate thing to write (and i apologise to the Forum heir achy) but i think people have the right to know the facts before they part with their money

zelph
22-Dec-2013, 08:06
As for Philips cameras, beautiful and a lot for Dick Philips to be proud of. Well made and he is one of the finest gentleman around.
Would love to have one but he never made them with bellows long enough for what I need.

e
28-Dec-2013, 00:08
There are good people in business...and bad...
Enough said...

Michael Kadillak
28-Dec-2013, 08:53
All things considered, I'd rather have a Deardorff.

For many years I listened to dig comments that Deardorff cameras were old designs and on the heavy side. Glad that I was forced to reconsider that opinion for myself. My V11 with the beefy extension cross sectional diameter handles heavier long lenses easily, is very stable and works smoothly and efficiently in all shooting conditions. I just need to continue to get to the gym for legitimate regular workouts so that is on me. Whatever works....

Michael Alpert
28-Dec-2013, 10:06
I am a supplier of an item for Deardorf cameras, which without you cannot sell a camera. I have outstanding invoices from the company which are more than long overdue, if people are not receiving cameras i am not surprised " they are not able to complete any" i know this is an inappropriate thing to write (and i apologise to the Forum heir achy) but i think people have the right to know the facts before they part with their money

When you started this thread, everyone assumed you were a disappointed customer. Now you tell us that you are a supplier to Deardorf and the probable reason that Deardorf cannot ship completed cameras. Yes, this whole thread is inappropriate. So, who are you, and what, exactly, do you supply to Deardorf?

karl french
28-Dec-2013, 10:22
It's a well thought out and elegant design. The "friendliest" field camera I've used. It sets up fairly quickly and the controls fall to hand very readily. With the sliding front lens panel it basically eliminates the need for wide angle bellows in most situations. Yes, they are on the heavy side and there are some situations where I'd like some rear shift. That's what I have the Canham 8x10 wood field for. (They compliment each other very well.) But ironically, I find I miss the rising front panel on the Deardorff more than I use the rear shift on the Canham in those situations. Neither camera is perfect, but the Deardorff comes pretty close in my book.

calibre61
29-Dec-2013, 06:49
I manufacture bellows for Deardorf, it is an unfortunate and regrettable situation which i have tried NUMEROUS times to settle with the company which just falls on deaf ears !!!!
un answered emails non returned phone calls and empty promises to get this resolved (when i did get a reply) I am genuinely unhappy and sorry that it has come to this but as i have said in previous statements.......customers should be aware of the situation with the company, and after hearing other peoples experiences i am not surprised

StoneNYC
29-Dec-2013, 09:25
You should post HERE

http://www.largeformatphotography.info/forum/showthread.php?t=108716

And read the first post and follow the rules of just simply a complaint and explanation of what issues you had.

Enjoy

Jac@stafford.net
31-Dec-2013, 08:50
I manufacture bellows for Deardorf

It might be respectful to spell the name properly.
Surely you have written it often enough in billing.

Sal Santamaura
31-Dec-2013, 08:54
It might be respectful...Respect must be earned. :D

e
1-Jan-2014, 14:57
Some people are good in business ...some of the time ...and bad in business...at other times...
Those are the ones you really have to be wary of..

Jody_S
1-Jan-2014, 18:10
I have been self-employed since the age of 20. I have been through many ups and downs, and been down to my last few crumbs of soda crackers in the cupboard more than once. But I never once walked away from a job without finishing (unless I wasn't getting paid, obviously). Bottom line: you pay your suppliers before you take any money out yourself. If you're rolling in money, this isn't a problem. If you're struggling, there is no more important rule to follow.