View Full Version : Phillips Compact 8x10 sold for $9100
jumanji
15-Dec-2013, 13:03
On Evil bay. Over nine grand dollars for a dirty camera. Is this a joke???
The same bidder won the Ritter 8x20 that was up for auction one hour and twenty minutes before that for $2,250.00
Both cameras were from the same seller.
Betcha the same buyer scoops up the 8x20 holders the seller is auctioning. $1400 starting bid for five holders with cases. No bids but the buyer is a sniper with obviously deep pockets so he'll probably get them. The auction ends soon.
Len Middleton
16-Dec-2013, 07:06
On Evil bay. Over nine grand dollars for a dirty camera. Is this a joke???
Do not forget that given that was the final bid price, at least two individuals thought the value was in that price range...
Nicely restored it will be a bit of history .
The winner of the Ritter didn't to for the film holders.
Tri Tran
16-Dec-2013, 08:18
It's all about the Legacy. The person who owned these gears is a friend of mine Micheal Fatali. The very last Artist on earth still practicing Cibachrome .
nm39131
16-Dec-2013, 08:54
I saw the price jump from $3,000 to $8,000 before reaching the closing price - crazy!
Tri Tran
16-Dec-2013, 09:44
On Evil bay. Over nine grand dollars for a dirty camera. Is this a joke???
Won't you be more happy to own such a Historic photographic instrument both of Philip and Micheal Fatali for 9k ? As far as I know it's much more affordable then his 20x24 in Cibachrome collection in the gallery for $45,000 ? Assuming you are a fine collector .
Shootar401
16-Dec-2013, 09:56
Fools and their money. A total waste if you ask me.
bob carnie
16-Dec-2013, 10:35
Not really but one of the few.
It's all about the Legacy. The person who owned these gears is a friend of mine Micheal Fatali. The very last Artist on earth still practicing Cibachrome .
Jac@stafford.net
16-Dec-2013, 11:47
Fools and their money.
Funny how these fools are also rich - thanks to fools.
rich caramadre
16-Dec-2013, 13:32
It's all about the Legacy. The person who owned these gears is a friend of mine Micheal Fatali. The very last Artist on earth still practicing Cibachrome .
Thats not true Tri. Christopher Burkett Prints exclusively in cibachrome.
Drew Wiley
16-Dec-2013, 13:45
Interesting. Since I bought my Phillips brand new for less than 10% of that. Fatali is hardly the last guy doing Ciba. But he is a genius at overpricing things.
tgtaylor
16-Dec-2013, 13:58
Micheal Fatali has/had a 760mm Apo-Nikkor on ebay within the past few days for not too much. I actually considered it.
Thomas
Nicely restored it will be a bit of history .
The winner of the Ritter didn't to for the film holders.
that's weird because that's a decent price for the 5 holders
rich caramadre
16-Dec-2013, 14:12
Yes, that is a decent price. They are S&S holders.
Drew Wiley
16-Dec-2013, 14:13
Tri Tran - answers to both questions. No. No. Fatali is a competent printer and relatively successful marketer of the scenic/tourist genre, and in my opinion a cut above the usual postcard crowd, even if he is sometime utter BS about his methods - but certainly no photographer's photographer. That's about it. I don't see anything remotely historically/artistically important about either his photographs or the gear he used.
Leszek Vogt
16-Dec-2013, 14:40
I can't even afford to look at gear like that. Fortunately have some ciba's from the 80's (that I can look at)...and they'll outlast me.
Les
Drew Wiley
16-Dec-2013, 14:51
I've got one box of 20x24 Ciba left in the freezer and sufficient chem for that. Time to print it is a different subject. All of my Cibas larger than that are sold out,
so end of an era, I guess. I've moved on to Fuji Supergloss, when the same intensity of look might be warranted. I've always wondered what Fatali could do if he photographed and printed for himself and not the tourist trade. I can understand his need to make a living, but the inherent cost to one's personal vision (if it is actually there)???? That's a pretty high price to pay, since you only get to go around the track once. I have a better opinion of Fatali than Smokey the Bear has. At least modulates his saturated tones using neutrals (not just carbon black) and doesn't just let it all hang out like the current trend among pseudo-nature Fauxtographers. But his sandwiching of composite images in the darkroom and claiming them to be actual scenes can be just as egregious. But really, unless you keep em in the dark, Cibas will fade, esp under those hot UV-rich halogen display lights like he uses in his galleries. Maybe I just don't like his snake oil sales approach, but that seems to be ubiquitous in swank tourist galleries.
Ray Heath
16-Dec-2013, 15:45
Michael Fatali? Never heard of him, but then I'm not American.
And a few questions for Drew Wiley;
"Fauxtographers", is that a new term to we can use denigrate something we don't appreciate or understand?
"Photographer's photographer"?
"tourist trade" versus "personal vision"?
"I have a better opinion of Fatali than Smokey the Bear has"?
Jim collum
16-Dec-2013, 15:54
"I have a better opinion of Fatali than Smokey the Bear has"?
http://ryanelson.wordpress.com/2012/04/30/fire-at-delicate-arch/
He's more famous here for lighting a fire and damaging Delicate Arch, than he is for photography :)
Fauxtographer.. i've only heard this in reference to digital photographers
Michael Fatali? Never heard of him, but then I'm not American.
And a few questions for Drew Wiley;
"Fauxtographers", is that a new term to we can use denigrate something we don't appreciate or understand?
"Photographer's photographer"?
"tourist trade" versus "personal vision"?
"I have a better opinion of Fatali than Smokey the Bear has"?
Oren Grad
16-Dec-2013, 15:57
"I have a better opinion of Fatali than Smokey the Bear has"?
Mr Fatali was responsible for an incident that was chewed over thoroughly here and elsewhere at the time:
http://photo.net/nature-photography-forum/001oMT
http://www.largeformatphotography.info/forum/showthread.php?3777-Consequences-of-Fatali-incident
EVERYTHING is RARE.
Did anyone notice that the 8x20 was listed a few weeks ago and ended for $1800+. Looks like he justs cancels the sale when items don't fetch the prices he wants. I bet t gets relisted again since it got nowhere near what he paid for it.
Drew Wiley
16-Dec-2013, 16:47
I actually thought some of the shots Fatali did by firelight were interesting. ... but how he did this is what got away from him, and as part of the legal settlement,
had to be culled from his sales venue. I have less patience when he claims he waited days on end for a particular kind of lighting, when in fact he cooked up something astronomically impossible in the darkroom using composite transparencies. Even these can be interesting in the sense that today's Fauxtoshop compers
could learn a thing or two about just how much more seamlessly it can be done the old way. But I certainly don't have much sympathy for those who mock the neon colors in certain Cibachromes where anyone who has traversed some of those canyons knows full well those kinds of colors truly exist. You don't necessarily have to like that kind of effect photographically - but many of his shots are much more genuine in that sense that the majority of supersaturated digital work these days. I'm just referring to technique. Per overall approach, he's clearly market-aimed. A few folks out there, like Clyde Butcher, got sick of pandering postcardy stereotypes to tourists, started following their own heart, and even financially succeeded at it. I just wonder if Fatali will ever have that opportunity, or even has the inclination. I doubt it. He seems to be getting more an more predictable.
dave_whatever
16-Dec-2013, 17:23
EVERYTHING is RARE.
Did anyone notice that the 8x20 was listed a few weeks ago and ended for $1800+. Looks like he justs cancels the sale when items don't fetch the prices he wants. I bet t gets relisted again since it got nowhere near what he paid for it.
Could it be he's just got a high reserve on his stuff?
Drew Wiley
16-Dec-2013, 17:27
He seems to have done that with dagor lenses in the past, where he wanted double the price of anyway else, for poorer condition. It's his right.
Could it be he's just got a high reserve on his stuff?
nope. no reserve on the item in question
Bill_1856
16-Dec-2013, 18:03
Mee...ow!
Kirk Gittings
16-Dec-2013, 19:51
to each his own......to me the fact that Fatali owned it would not add a nickel to the value.
Taija71A
16-Dec-2013, 20:01
... I just wonder if Fatali will ever have that opportunity, or even has the inclination. I doubt it. He seems to be getting more and more predictable.
____
Agreed...
According to his Website... It would appear? that he has an Illumachrome 'Smokey The Bear' and more m?rrors? future.
-Tim.
________
tgtaylor
16-Dec-2013, 20:34
Micheal Fatali has/had a 760mm Apo-Nikkor on ebay within the past few days for not too much. I actually considered it.
Thomas
It's still there if anyone is interested: http://www.ebay.com/itm/760mm-APO-NIKKOR-F11-LARGE-FORMAT-LENS-ULF-8x20-COVERAGE-and-BIGGER-/370960311274#ht_1620wt_1360 Check out the camera.
Thomas
Shootar401
17-Dec-2013, 11:05
It's still there if anyone is interested: http://www.ebay.com/itm/760mm-APO-NIKKOR-F11-LARGE-FORMAT-LENS-ULF-8x20-COVERAGE-and-BIGGER-/370960311274#ht_1620wt_1360 Check out the camera.
Thomas
I always this it's hilarious when these narcissistic eBay sellers handle their items with white gloves, like it's some sort of rare museum piece.
tgtaylor
17-Dec-2013, 11:27
If you got the bellows, go for it!
Thomas
Drew Wiley
17-Dec-2013, 11:27
I have a bunch of Apo Nikkors it would be nice to put in shutter, incl a 760. But in each case, I've already got a more compact equivalent focal length lens ready to use. They are optically impressive. But as far as that Phillips goes... for that kind of money I could literally make half a dozen or more of them myself. No need. I doubt that my own original Phillips will wear out. It's not that hard a design to replicate, and the materials wouldn't add up to more than a few hundred apiece. Only a few hardware pieces would need to be subbed out to CNC. Everything else off the shelf. Suitable laminates are now widely available. Chamonix has already essentially cloned it. And no... I'm not contemplating making any cameras. However, it would be nice to find time to make a bunch of pretty hardwood print boxes,
and I am gearing up to do that (sometime... after a mountain of other overdue chores).
I have a bunch of Apo Nikkors it would be nice to put in shutter, incl a 760. But in each case, I've already got a more compact equivalent focal length lens ready to use. They are optically impressive. But as far as that Phillips goes... for that kind of money I could literally make half a dozen or more of them myself. No need. I doubt that my own original Phillips will wear out. It's not that hard a design to replicate, and the materials wouldn't add up to more than a few hundred apiece. Only a few hardware pieces would need to be subbed out to CNC. Everything else off the shelf. Suitable laminates are now widely available. Chamonix has already essentially cloned it. And no... I'm not contemplating making any cameras. However, it would be nice to find time to make a bunch of pretty hardwood print boxes,
and I am gearing up to do that (sometime... after a mountain of other overdue chores).
Yep, here's my version I finished (minus a paint job) a few months ago. My first time using a mill or a lathe. I wish I had a cnc and knew how to use it.
Why is there a thread dedicated to whining about how much something sold for, and further, denigrating a person's art and personal aesthetic choices? Regardless of what he did in the past - that's barely mentioned in passing, while one of our loud-mouth members simply vilify his work and tells us all about how "he would do it," as if we should care.
This mockery should not even be here.
AtlantaTerry
17-Dec-2013, 12:08
It's all about the Legacy. The person who owned these gears is a friend of mine Micheal Fatali. The very last Artist on earth still practicing Cibachrome .
One person could not keep a company in business producing products such as Cibachrome.
Hugo Zhang
17-Dec-2013, 12:24
Yep, here's my version I finished (minus a paint job) a few months ago. My first time using a mill or a lathe. I wish I had a cnc and knew how to use it.
Hi Vinny,
Great job! Paint it all black and maybe you can sell it for a few Ks. :)
Drew Wiley
17-Dec-2013, 12:47
Light duty CNC rigs now can be had for less than half the asking price of that camera. What Dick Phillips had so much foresight about was running batches of custom
laminate of fiberglass and epoxied lightweight plywood, and not worrying about all the usual fancy furniture look typical of traditional view cameras. Now carbon fiber
can also be thrown into the mix of potential materials. I made several important modifications on my own Phillips camera, and later had the opportunity to show them to Dick, but he was already working on his model II version. A wonderful example of "less is more" engineering.
Kodachrome25
17-Dec-2013, 15:43
Thats not true Tri. Christopher Burkett Prints exclusively in cibachrome.
Yep, and he has a boatload of it, he will be in town Thursday, I look forward to meeting him. Also, Frank Green at the Lab Ciba has a good amount of it.
rich caramadre
17-Dec-2013, 16:07
Kodachrome25,
I got to meet Mr. Burkett a few weeks ago. We had a good conversation about his Cibachrome stock. He is an awesome guy. I hope you get to spend some time with him.
Drew Wiley
17-Dec-2013, 16:34
I don't know how long Ciba keeps. My little stash is frozen. And the pro P3 chem seems to keep fine if its unopened and not mixed. Unlike RA4 it's the chem that's relatively stable, while the paper starts its color shift rather promptly once its thawed, and you really need to use a batch within six months and monitor it all along,
as highlight crossover it inevitable. I actually sequenced my prints for the exact aging characteristics of this, which could produce wonderful if not entirely realistic effects. But once it's too far along, the paper is uncooperative. But at the manufacturing level, Ciba is already extinct. It's just private stockpiles now, until they are all gone.
Bill_1856
17-Dec-2013, 19:26
For years I used Dektol and/or Selectol for first developer, so no problem there.
Andrew Plume
18-Dec-2013, 05:15
...................and good luck to MF if he can get these sort of prices
I'm not a fan of his work, never have been but that's simply because of his style, the locations and the over saturated colours. He's clearly very popular with those who appreciate this sort of stuff and keeps his gallery going
unfortunately, he will continue to be known for "that incident" and not his work, imo
andrew
Andrew Plume
18-Dec-2013, 05:16
Hi Vinny,
Great job! Paint it all black and maybe you can sell it for a few Ks. :)
and excellent it is indeed too
andrew
Drew Wiley
19-Dec-2013, 17:10
You got compromised results with conventional b&w developers with Ciba, esp with the second-generation materials. Once in awhile I'd use Selectol Soft to get a
relatively ghoulish other-worldly effect. But it was fun experimenting.
Shootar401
19-Dec-2013, 17:37
...................and good luck to MF if he can get these sort of prices
I'm not a fan of his work, never have been but that's simply because of his style, the locations and the over saturated colours. He's clearly very popular with those who appreciate this sort of stuff and keeps his gallery going
unfortunately, he will continue to be known for "that incident" and not his work, imo
andrew
I don't find his work appealing at all. It just looks live over saturated tourist snap shots.
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