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StoneNYC
10-Dec-2013, 07:02
If this is in the wrong forum, mods please feel free to move it.

So I'm relatively new to LF photography. This will be my first winter shooting with my 4x5.

I've looked online and seen a Thone of pictures of guys in snowsuits carrying around their LF cameras with snow completely covering the Bellows.

But my question is how do you deal with this, do you put some kind of coating over it? Or do you just let the moisture collect and then try the camera after you get back from the outside?

I can see only needing to cover the lens which can be done with a bellows shade extension, and the back area of the camera covered by a dark cloth, and the dark cloth is washable dryable etc.

But what about the rest?

What should I do? It's snowing out right now and I want to shoot it but don't want to ruin my equipment either.

Thanks!

jp
10-Dec-2013, 07:14
I usually use a speed graphic outside and it's bellows are slightly rubberized. Never a problem. Just gotta keep the lens clean/dry. A barrel lens is easier in that respect as there are no levers for shutter. Since I like soft focus, Reinhold's meniscus is very snow proof and has a long shade built into it. (The glass is recessed)

I am usually a major proponent of the tiltall tripod but it's not an ideal winter tripod. The leg fittings can freeze up and can be hard to adjust with mittens/gloves. Something with levers for locking the legs would be better.

I do use my B&J 8x10 in the snow sometimes too. When using that, I keep the lens off it till the last minute. I use my jacket for a dark cloth and am a suffering artist for just a couple minutes while composing/focusing. The bellows have gotten wet but it hasn't hurt anything.

I have a "jet sled" sled for transport on snow. It's a heavy duty sled you can pull with a rope or tow behind a snowmobile, which I don't have. Snow shoes, XC skis, and a vehicle with studded snow tires is also helpful. It's a very enjoyable time of year. Gaiters over your boots/pantlegs are also great for keeping your feet dry.

Just like your clothes, let the cameras dry out fully when you're done for the day.

StoneNYC
10-Dec-2013, 07:17
I usually use a speed graphic outside and it's bellows are slightly rubberized. Never a problem. Just gotta keep the lens clean/dry. A barrel lens is easier in that respect as there are no levers for shutter. Since I like soft focus, Reinhold's meniscus is very snow proof and has a long shade built into it. (The glass is recessed)

I am usually a major proponent of the tiltall tripod but it's not an ideal winter tripod. The leg fittings can freeze up and can be hard to adjust with mittens/gloves. Something with levers for locking the legs would be better.

I do use my B&J 8x10 in the snow sometimes too. When using that, I keep the lens off it till the last minute. I use my jacket for a dark cloth and am a suffering artist for just a couple minutes while composing/focusing. The bellows have gotten wet but it hasn't hurt anything.

I have a "jet sled" sled for transport on snow. It's a heavy duty sled you can pull with a rope or tow behind a snowmobile, which I don't have. Snow shoes, XC skis, and a vehicle with studded snow tires is also helpful. It's a very enjoyable time of year. Gaiters over your boots/pantlegs are also great for keeping your feet dry.

Just like your clothes, let the cameras dry out fully when you're done for the day.

So in other words you just basically leave it open the entire time completely set up and attached to the tripod when you're traveling with it walking around?

I'm very used to packing it up in between takes so I just haven't walked around with it much.

Toyo45a to be exact.

C_Remington
10-Dec-2013, 07:19
Why wouldn't you cover as much as you could, including bellows?????

Richard Wasserman
10-Dec-2013, 07:23
I use an oversize Harrison dark cloth and wrap the camera in it. When I am setting up I form it into a hood to keep snow off the lens as well as the camera and me (as long as I am under it). I have also done this in the rain and it works very well. You of course could buy one of Mike Walker's excellent Titan Cameras made of ABS plastic and you wouldn't need to worry as much about inclement weather.

Jac@stafford.net
10-Dec-2013, 07:26
If I get off my butt to work outside in snowing weather, and if I don't need perspective controls I use a weatherproof 4x5. It has a sealed focusing tube and a rangefinder. BUT as a true olde pharte Minnesotan, I hate Winter and when so compelled to go out, I rest until the urge passes.

StoneNYC
10-Dec-2013, 07:28
If I get off my butt to work outside in snowing weather, and if I don't need perspective controls I use a weatherproof 4x5. It has a sealed focusing tube and a rangefinder. BUT as a true olde pharte Minnesotan, I hate Winter and when so compelled to go out, I rest until the urge passes.

Yea I'm tired and lazy from being on the road for a month, and it's the first morning to rest... But.... This happened...

106355

StoneNYC
10-Dec-2013, 07:30
I use an oversize Harrison dark cloth and wrap the camera in it. When I am setting up I form it into a hood to keep snow off the lens as well as the camera and me (as long as I am under it). I have also done this in the rain and it works very well. You of course could buy one of Mike Walker's excellent Titan Cameras made of ABS plastic and you wouldn't need to worry as much about inclement weather.

I didn't know dark cloths were water tight?

Richard Wasserman
10-Dec-2013, 07:45
Harrison's are. They are by far my favorite dark cloth.



I didn't know dark cloths were water tight?

vinny
10-Dec-2013, 07:53
order a couple yards of "ultrabounce" from modern studio equipment in burbank. black on one side, white on the other. it doesn't absorb water. you've seen it on set.
I don't worry about the camera but usually use a lee hood on my lenses to keep the snow off.

DrTang
10-Dec-2013, 08:13
blanket, hot toddie, fireplace and maybe a die hard movie (save for #2)

Bruce Barlow
10-Dec-2013, 08:24
I have found that photographing in lousy weather usually doesn't yield worthwhile images, because the light is so flat. I wait until the sun comes out, and then usually only have to deal with the cold. Snow and ice in bright sunshine - now yer talkin'!

In the meantime, comfort food, good wine, a fireplace, Bill Evans on the stereo, and a blonde.

Jody_S
10-Dec-2013, 08:36
How do I deal with snow? I freeze my ass off and keep shooting. There's nothing like lying on your side in damp snow for 15 minutes trying to compose and focus a low-level shot, when you forgot to bring the mini tarp you usually bring for just this purpose.

Reminds me, late last year I was shooting in one of my favorite spots, a park right next to my house. I broke through the ice and fell into 3 ft of water. The only thing that saved my phone was that I fell slightly forward and my hip pocket stayed out of the water long enough for me to grab the phone and relocate it to a higher pocket. My gear was ok, I dropped it on the surrounding ice as I fell. I had to use my tripod as a support for my upper body weight so I could extricate myself, and then had to walk about half a mile around the swamp to get back to the road, because I didn't dare retrace my previous route.

Winter is fun!

adamc
10-Dec-2013, 08:56
I always give my camera some time to cool off in the porch or the car before going out. I made a mistake once by taking a room temperature camera out in a snow storm, the flakes melted on the surface and re-froze making the whole thing unusable within a few minutes. If everything's nice and cold, most of the flakes will just bounce off.

If it's snowing heavily, I'll use my Speed Graphic and not really worry about it. Just giving the whole thing a thorough wipe-down when I get home, and leaving everything open and extended for a day or two afterward. I'd still use my Toyo if I didn't have the SG, but it's nice to have the "beater camera" option for these situations.

ROL
10-Dec-2013, 09:25
I didn't know dark cloths were water tight?

Fell right into my trap again. You guys are just soooo easy!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XAwIWZ9H3ZU


I've never worried a tenth as much about getting my VC wet as I ever did with other less easily dry-able smaller cameras.

StoneNYC
10-Dec-2013, 09:31
You guys have given me some excellent ideas!

So does that mean my Harrison changing tent is also waterproof?

And in that picture example, it doesn't look like you followed your own advice :-p

I don't remember seeing anything like the ultra bounce you described on set, usually they just cover the camera with a plastic bag lol!

Though that does give me an idea about just using a plastic bag. But I think ultimately the best thing for me is to get some Velcro strips, and I have some extra duvatyne (sp?) cloth, it's red actually bright, so it'll make me look really cool haha, and attach the cloth to the camera covering the Bellows etc. that way it's easy to take on and off, when I'm taking the camera part without having to fiddle and getting water droplets everywhere? How does that sound guys? Or do you think the weight of the duvytine (sp?) cloth will push down on the Bellows too much?

I've got the compendium bellows shade, so I think I'm all set on that front, except when using the 75 mm lens, which is recessed, and already difficult to adjust without having to add something in the Way, but I'm sure I'll figure it out.

Judy, BE CAREFUL! Also, remember your iPhone is not as important as your legs when it comes to hypothermia...

I'm still open to hearing more ideas of course, I really like being able to think about what is the best option.

I have one of those dark cloths that you can put your arms into, but it doesn't seem to fit right for me as far as using the arms, I've never quite understood how to get it right and be in it at the same time. I'm not a big guy, so it should be fine, but maybe I'm using it wrong somehow?

The elastic cord is so ultra thick, that it doesn't really bend enough and let's a lot of light in on the sides of the edges of the camera, and doesn't really stay stuck to the camera and often falls onto the Bellows which always makes me worry that I'm going to bend them, or it falls off the other direction and then I have to re-hook it back on. Sometimes I feel like I'm missing something entirely. I've also thought about taking the handle off the side of the Toyo45a. I do actually use it to grip and lifted up, but it wouldn't be too bad to just pick it up by itself with two hand I suppose, and the strap not being on the side would then not get in the way of doing other things, has anyone done this?

Thanks.

Ari
10-Dec-2013, 09:52
I just try to make sure my fingers don't freeze when working in the cold; metal-on-skin can really cut into work time.
I am still searching for that ideal pair of gloves that will allow me to keep my fingers toasty while performing the finesse movements required on a VC.
Keep the loupe around your neck, light meter in one pocket, film holders (if they fit) in another pocket, and dress warmly.

StoneNYC
10-Dec-2013, 10:03
I just try to make sure my fingers don't freeze when working in the cold; metal-on-skin can really cut into work time.
I am still searching for that ideal pair of gloves that will allow me to keep my fingers toasty while performing the finesse movements required on a VC.
Keep the loupe around your neck, light meter in one pocket, film holders (if they fit) in another pocket, and dress warmly.

I learned the hard way last night that my loupe does not like me, it's also made of metal...

I had left my camera pelican case with all the stuff in my trunk for a couple days, and so it was very very cold which was good so it didn't have to cool down or anything, and I didn't have to worry about lens distortion from temperature changing, but damn was that loupe cold!

I hadn't planned on shooting, but I was driving down the highway coming home from a trip, and saw this awesome picture of a Polaroid camera on the side of the building, and tracks down where it was in the city overlooking the highway after about two hours of driving in circles of course, ironically I got pulled over by a cop, asking what the heck I was doing trying to drive the way I was, and I explained to him what will I was and was trying to do and he said oh that's the old Polaroid factory here's how you get there... I had no idea it was the old Polaroid factory but kind of fortunate that he found me or I would never have known! I'm not that confident in the shots as I only took one, a panoramic, and I could hardly see at all, it was cold, and I was trying to balance the light of the building and the light of the highway, and not to freeze, and not to have so many headlights in the shot Crossing the field of view that it just look like a big white light mess. I find out when I develop it...

Anyway yes gloves will be necessary from now on in the winter, and I'll take a look at all the options and see how it all comes together.

I hadn't thought about film holders! God what was I thinking! Hmm... Well perhaps maybe I'll just stick a graph mattock in my pocket, and then may be the panoramic back as well and another pocket and just stick with those two, A total of 12 shots should be more than enough to get me by on a simple winter outing, I usually only shoot 2 to 4 images anyway...

Drew Wiley
10-Dec-2013, 10:26
Stone, I've got decades of experience doing this kind of thing, including a lot of mountain experience with view cameras under all kinds of conditions. Some camera and tripods are obviously much better than others under extreme conditions, but I won't go into the specifics here. I use black Goretex darkcloths, which are waterproof just like a Goretex parka, but also breathable and lint-free. Keep you meter battery warm, inside a pocket. Or have a warm spare battery in a pocket. One frequent problem is having condensation from your breath fog up the groundglass. If really cold weather you might find a skiers knit "snorkel"-style facemask useful in this respect. Or maybe your breath won't freeze if it's pickled with something 100-proof anyway! Pick the right kind of gloves and general clothing. I like working out of a real backpack that has plenty of room for personal gear and not just camera things. Have a compendium lens hood to keep your lens dry. And although skis are nice to get around in, it is far easier to maneuver a camera with snowshoes instead, and to tamp down a snow platform so your tripod legs won't sink in. ... you can also attach little ski pole baskets to them. I like my Ries wooden tripods for snow. Bully mass helps. But some cheaper wood tripods will literally
freeze shut. Otherwise I use carbon fiber tripods with a mesh bag below with rocks for weight. Spike rather than rubber feet are important if you want to grip
icy surfaces.

smithdoor
10-Dec-2013, 10:27
The video is for a sunny not cold of the day.
I have crown graphic still good shape so after a lot rain and ice. But now I got a 120 camera for rain and snow.
If some happen just get the new 120 and keep going.
Note: I have had the same 120 since 1987 just use an old cote to cover the camera. I always keep a old cote in my truck even in sunny CA.

Dave


Fell right into my trap again. You guys are just soooo easy!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XAwIWZ9H3ZU


I've never worried a tenth as much about getting my VC wet as I ever did with other less easily dry-able smaller cameras.

Robert Tilden
10-Dec-2013, 10:36
I have pretty good luck with the mitten/fingerless gloves that hunters and fly fishermen use. When you don't need the dexterity you can flip the mitten part over your fingertips to keep them warm(er). Orvis sells one for fly fishermen that has a little additional thumb-mitten so you can have all five finger tips available.

Greg Blank
10-Dec-2013, 10:42
I've never been fond of shooting while its percipitating, for obvious reasons and snow especially shows up as blurrs on the film. It can be nice for effect in one or two images perhaps, I have a few like that. Never been concerned about getting gear initially wet, though upon leaving the outdoors I quickly dry off my camera and lens with a towel or other lintless clean cloth- typically I don't cover the camera-maybe sometimes the lens with a darkcloth. I agree that subdued sunlight is the best for color imagery and many times b&w, however I have some really nice images b&w that were overcast snow scenes, which required expanded development and lots of contrast to print, nice moody snow images with fog.

jp
10-Dec-2013, 10:53
I have found that photographing in lousy weather usually doesn't yield worthwhile images, because the light is so flat. I wait until the sun comes out, and then usually only have to deal with the cold. Snow and ice in bright sunshine - now yer talkin'!

In the meantime, comfort food, good wine, a fireplace, Bill Evans on the stereo, and a blonde.

Overcast on a snowy field is essentially God's light tent / softbox. I haven't seen sunshine for a week but it's always appreciated.

ROL
10-Dec-2013, 11:47
I have found that photographing in lousy weather usually doesn't yield worthwhile images, because the light is so flat.

And that is when color merges to monochrome and all kinds of interesting things may occur if you know where to look and how to deal with it.


Double Tree, Leidig Meadow
http://www.rangeoflightphotography.com/albums/Yosemite-Winter/Double%20Tree%2C%20Leidig%20Meadow.jpg

New Snow, Oak Branch
http://www.rangeoflightphotography.com/albums/Yosemite-Winter/New%20Snow%2C%20Oak%20Branch.jpg

Snowstorm, Merced River
http://www.rangeoflightphotography.com/albums/Yosemite-Winter/Snowstorm%2C%20Merced%20River.jpg

True, the "images" themselves have no intrinsic value, but I consider the GSP's at least as worthwhile as the inherent silver.

Alan Gales
10-Dec-2013, 11:58
I am still searching for that ideal pair of gloves that will allow me to keep my fingers toasty while performing the finesse movements required on a VC.


Cloth, dark brown Jersey Gloves are the best I have found. I wore them in construction and I could pick up screws out of the pouch on my leather tool belt. They are not the warmest but you can work in them.

Buy them by the bag. They do wear out quick.

StoneNYC
10-Dec-2013, 12:09
Stone, I've got decades of experience doing this kind of thing, including a lot of mountain experience with view cameras under all kinds of conditions. Some camera and tripods are obviously much better than others under extreme conditions, but I won't go into the specifics here. I use black Goretex darkcloths, which are waterproof just like a Goretex parka, but also breathable and lint-free. Keep you meter battery warm, inside a pocket. Or have a warm spare battery in a pocket. One frequent problem is having condensation from your breath fog up the groundglass. If really cold weather you might find a skiers knit "snorkel"-style facemask useful in this respect. Or maybe your breath won't freeze if it's pickled with something 100-proof anyway! Pick the right kind of gloves and general clothing. I like working out of a real backpack that has plenty of room for personal gear and not just camera things. Have a compendium lens hood to keep your lens dry. And although skis are nice to get around in, it is far easier to maneuver a camera with snowshoes instead, and to tamp down a snow platform so your tripod legs won't sink in. ... you can also attach little ski pole baskets to them. I like my Ries wooden tripods for snow. Bully mass helps. But some cheaper wood tripods will literally
freeze shut. Otherwise I use carbon fiber tripods with a mesh bag below with rocks for weight. Spike rather than rubber feet are important if you want to grip
icy surfaces.

Great info Drew, if I had the money for Gore-Tex that would be awesome, but that stuff is expensive!

I've been trying to afford Gore-Tex pants for the past five years! Lol, I do have a nice Gore-Tex jacket thankfully, but no pants yet...

So far I settled on this...

106378

I'm not so worried about the tripod, I've already done tons of hiking and backpacking in temperatures as low as -15, without a problem with either tripod that I use, it's just the camera I'm concerned about.

Obviously if I were hiking far, I would not be bringing the pelican case, and would just be wrapping everything up in a backpack, but I'm just talking about normal shooting where you find a scene that you see on the side of the road, pullover park and hike out to the right position to get the shot. Just thinking about the snow falling not necessarily doing crazy hiking adventures just yet.

By the way that is actually duveytine cloth, it's just red instead if black.

Kodachrome25
10-Dec-2013, 12:48
I have found that photographing in lousy weather usually doesn't yield worthwhile images, because the light is so flat. I wait until the sun comes out, and then usually only have to deal with the cold. Snow and ice in bright sunshine - now yer talkin'!

Not in my experience, for me that is exactly the time to be out, it is when interesting light can occur too, the edges of things imparting stellar light.

I have been out all week, heavy snow, light snow, temps of -17F to 5F. I simply use my Ebony dark cloth to shield the camera and lens once my composition has been nailed down, use a glove liner to brush off snow from the bellows, hold my breath while under the dark cloth, never a problem. Living in a ski resort, I work in cold and snowy weather for 5 months a year, it is nothing new to me. In the warmer weather with rain I will use my Gortex Mtn. Hardware hat to block the rain, it works pretty well for most lenses when not using a lot of bellows extension. Bottom line is for me that I avoid "One Trick Ponies" preferring to use an existing piece that serves another purpose rather than a dedicated goofball camera specific thing. As far as gloves go, I guess I am built for colder weather, can not stand the heat. If there is no wind, I am usually good for at least a few hours with no gloves on down to 0F if I put my hands in my pockets now and then.

The hardest part is getting tripod legs stable in snow over 3 feet deep, they tend to flex so it is an act of bending them inward before placing them so that they splay out to where I need them once bottomed out. I have been thinking about designing a pair of "Snowshoes" for them so they pack the snow down more but I am always averse to carrying more crap when skiing with my 4x5.

Attached is the Gortex hat in light rain doing double duty...

106384

adelorenzo
10-Dec-2013, 13:01
I don't normally shoot when it is snowing but some of the nicest light comes during the cold, short days of winter up here. I find once you get below -25 or -30 that is where you start to get the controls stiffening up and being difficult to operate, especially if they have any grease in them.

Keeping hands warm is a huge challenge, I wear thin gloves underneath thick mittens that are attached to my wrists. So I can quickly "drop" and then put the mittens back on.

Trying to compose while holding your breath so you don't fog the ground glass is also pretty annoying.

adelorenzo
10-Dec-2013, 13:05
I just try to make sure my fingers don't freeze when working in the cold; metal-on-skin can really cut into work time.
I am still searching for that ideal pair of gloves that will allow me to keep my fingers toasty while performing the finesse movements required on a VC.
Keep the loupe around your neck, light meter in one pocket, film holders (if they fit) in another pocket, and dress warmly.

I use some locally-made fingerless dog musher gloves (http://www.sportees.com/detail.aspx-ID=51.html) that have a pocket for a hand warmer. The other thing to look at would be biathlon gloves. Those guys need to be able to shoot in cold weather so those are pretty dexterous. I have a pair of Roeckls that are extremely warm and yet quite thin.

Either way I have big mittens that I can pop my hands into at every opportunity to warm them up.

Vaughn
10-Dec-2013, 13:37
When carrying a small camera (4x5 or 5x7) on a tripod, I put a water-proof stuff sack (for backpacking sleeping bags, etc) over the camera and cinch it tight around the tripod. Keeps the camera dry and prevents branches, etc from snagging the camera bellows.

While walking around photographing in cold weather (the coldest has been 18F...not too bad), I wear one wool mitten and keep the bare hand in the pocket of my wool pants. When composing, I use the bare hand to work the finer controls, and when that hand gets too cold, I switch the mitten over to it and work with the warmer hand.

Vaughn

Ari
10-Dec-2013, 14:41
Cloth, dark brown Jersey Gloves are the best I have found. I wore them in construction and I could pick up screws out of the pouch on my leather tool belt. They are not the warmest but you can work in them.

Buy them by the bag. They do wear out quick.


I use some locally-made fingerless dog musher gloves (http://www.sportees.com/detail.aspx-ID=51.html) that have a pocket for a hand warmer. The other thing to look at would be biathlon gloves. Those guys need to be able to shoot in cold weather so those are pretty dexterous. I have a pair of Roeckls that are extremely warm and yet quite thin.

Either way I have big mittens that I can pop my hands into at every opportunity to warm them up.

Thanks for two excellent suggestions.

Drew Bedo
10-Dec-2013, 14:51
I deal with inclement weather by putting another log on the fire andfixing another Irish coffee!

Alternative process fpghotographers may wish to substitute spiced mulled wine.

jnantz
10-Dec-2013, 15:33
i use a piece of fabric as a dark cloth and just drape it over the camera when making the exposures.
sometimes i go out in drizzle, sometimes snow &c im in new england so the weather/ mother nature is fickle,
i use the spikes on the tripod feet ...
and just wipe down the camera afterwards. never really had trouble.
this routine is the same whether i am using a press camera or something bigger like a 8x10 ...
and i don't much else when using a graflex slr ( d, or 3a ) or a box camera or magazine camera ..

i found it to be worse photographing missiles being launched off the side of a boat with spray and wind and salt water &c
than photographing inland with a little snow or drizzle.

AtlantaTerry
10-Dec-2013, 18:06
When I was a kid in Ohio I played trumpet in our school's marching band. In freezing cold weather we wore white silk gloves so our skin would not stick to the metal but we had full control of our instruments. So you might want to try a pair of silk gloves under your winter gloves.



One thing about photographing in cold weather that no one has mentioned yet: do NOT bring your cold-soaked equipment into a warm humid building. Condensation will form everywhere - including inside your lenses. (Been there...) The simple trick is to put your equipment into a plastic bag then seal it prior to coming inside. The condensation will form on the exterior of the plastic bag. If your camera equipment is in a backpack or other case, leave it closed for an hour or two or overnight so it slowly comes to room temperature.

If you forget or don't have a plastic bag handy, put your cold equipment into an oven with just the pilot light working or the light bulb turned on. Then tape the oven controls shut and put signs all about the stove top so no one cooks your gear! The latter actually happened to a guy in Germany a couple years ago when his Canon and lenses were cooked.

onnect17
10-Dec-2013, 18:24
Ditto. I love too much my equipment, specially the lens to treat them that bad. If you can contain yourself then get a Nikonos and snow cloth. That will do it.

smithdoor
10-Dec-2013, 18:24
That great way Drew for inclement weather

Dave


I deal with inclement weather by putting another log on the fire and fixing another Irish coffee!

Alternative process photographers may wish to substitute spiced mulled wine.

StoneNYC
10-Dec-2013, 18:25
When I was a kid in Ohio I played trumpet in our school's marching band. In freezing cold weather we wore white silk gloves so our skin would not stick to the metal but we had full control of our instruments. So you might want to try a pair of silk gloves under your winter gloves.



One thing about photographing in cold weather that no one has mentioned yet: do NOT bring your cold-soaked equipment into a warm humid building. Condensation will form everywhere - including inside your lenses. (Been there...) The simple trick is to put your equipment into a plastic bag then seal it prior to coming inside. The condensation will form on the exterior of the plastic bag. If your camera equipment is in a backpack or other case, leave it closed for an hour or two or overnight so it slowly comes to room temperature.

If you forget or don't have a plastic bag handy, put your cold equipment into an oven with just the pilot light working or the light bulb turned on. Then tape the oven controls shut and put signs all about the stove top so no one cooks your gear! The latter actually happened to a guy in Germany a couple years ago when his Canon and lenses were cooked.

Thanks I'm familiar with coming in from the cold, I'm not new to shooting in cold weather I'm just new to LF gear, so the lenses function much like any other lens as far as protecting it from wet (except the canon L series that you can take anywhere lol) but yea so I'm used to shooting in cold (like -15 overlooking the Grand Canyon with my Mamiya 7 II) just not dealing with a camera that folds up and encapsulates the bad weather inside it if you close it! Lol

Brassai
11-Dec-2013, 07:38
I leave my cameras sitting out for quite a long time, waiting for trains to show up. I often hang a hat over the lens to keep it clear. Before putting the camera gear back into my car I am careful to knock all the snow off. It's basically like powdery sugar--it's been below zero (F) here for days on end. No way the snow will melt while camera is outside.

Brassai
11-Dec-2013, 07:54
I just try to make sure my fingers don't freeze when working in the cold; metal-on-skin can really cut into work time.
I am still searching for that ideal pair of gloves that will allow me to keep my fingers toasty while performing the finesse movements required on a VC.



Where I live, it's been going for days without getting above zero (F). The best strategy for gloves has been to have two pair. I have a pair of heavy Black Diamond guide gloves for when I'm walking or standing around, and a pair of very light but warm Under Armor liner gloves. These allow for enough dexterity to do everything on a camera I need.

http://www.midwayusa.com/product/2457270341/under-armour-coldgear-liner-gloves-polyester

http://www.moosejaw.com/moosejaw/shop/product_Black-Diamond-Guide-Gloves_10199035_10208_10000001_-1_



And here's the parka and pants I wear. Keeps me warm even at -40, no problem:

http://www.backcountry.com/mountain-hardwear-absolute-zero-down-parka-mens
http://www.amazon.com/Mountain-Hardwear-Absolute-Zero-Pant/dp/B0002JUNPQ


I buy only black outer clothing for winter as it's warmer when the sun hits it.

Peter Lewin
11-Dec-2013, 08:17
Without meaning to highjack the "mechanics" answers from this thread, permit me to ask what mathematicians would call a "corollary question:" is anyone who lives in the cold states (here in NJ we're back to another 5 days where it doesn't break freezing) actually taking pictures outside? The first forum I look at daily is the "Shared Images" thread, and the landscapes and outside shots are either from you temperate Californians and Southerners, or images from archives which are only now being scanned. Except for one Ken Lee landscape, I don't see any indication of people heading out into the cold, let alone snow. This isn't an idle question, since I'm looking for some ideas or encouragement to get myself and equipment out of the warm house into the "real feel" teens outside.

Jac@stafford.net
11-Dec-2013, 08:31
There is a good thread containing more links regarding cold weather photography here (http://www.largeformatphotography.info/forum/showthread.php?57777-Cold-Weather).

My favorite from Richard Wasserman "Don't breathe on the ground glass."

jp
11-Dec-2013, 09:12
Except for one Ken Lee landscape, I don't see any indication of people heading out into the cold, let alone snow. This isn't an idle question, since I'm looking for some ideas or encouragement to get myself and equipment out of the warm house into the "real feel" teens outside.

Many photos here encourage me to do more, so I'm glad to encourage.

http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8223/8336102640_f810d15c25_z.jpg

http://www.flickr.com/photos/13759696@N02/8340407618/

http://www.flickr.com/photos/13759696@N02/8340412712/in/set-72157632415184077

http://www.flickr.com/photos/13759696@N02/8545197905/

http://www.flickr.com/photos/13759696@N02/8529298763/

http://www.flickr.com/photos/13759696@N02/7355626606/

http://www.flickr.com/photos/13759696@N02/sets/72157632415184077/

http://www.flickr.com/photos/13759696@N02/7308681982/

Drew Wiley
11-Dec-2013, 09:49
Holy cow, Peter.... You sure have some erroneous stereotypes of what we do in "sunny California" and around the West. "Sunny California" has some of the deepest
snows on earth certain winters. But even four of my last five SUMMER backpacks with large format gear here in "sunny California", I had heavy snow and related severe weather almost every day. I spent three days inside my $500 Bibler tent waiting out one JUNE storm here in "sunny California". It's a funny phenomenon - but somehow there aren't many beaches with palm trees when you're at 13,000 feet altitude. What you call mountains back East we call gopher mounds here.

Jac@stafford.net
11-Dec-2013, 10:06
[...] But even four of my last five SUMMER backpacks with large format gear here in "sunny California", I had heavy snow and related severe weather almost every day. I spent three days inside my $500 Bibler tent waiting out one JUNE storm here in "sunny California"[...]

More power to you! I keep one of these (http://www.besportier.com/archives/bivy-sacks-for-sale-outdoor-research-advanced-bivy-sack.html) ready, and not as a changing bag. :)

StoneNYC
11-Dec-2013, 10:12
The problem with New England is the moisture, it's actually very humid here even in winter, so it's much colder in a sense then it would be in say Colorado, or in Arizona you the Grand Canyon that kind of thing where it's very dry.

It was around 20° last night, and I was out shooting at 1 AM, however it felt almost colder last night then he did for me when he was -15° overlooking the canyon in AZ last January...

So it's sort of deceiving, and you have to watch yourself so you don't freeze.

I think that's why some people are able to get out more, while others just can't do it, that initial cold is much worse for some.

And also a cold person in general so it's very hard for me to acclimate to the cold temps because I have Reynord's and so my toes and fingers get cold very very easily.

What I still get out there and do it anyway, because I love capturing those amazing images, it's just about being able to get out there and safely use my equipment without damaging anything.

To the New Jersey guy, if you want feel free to come up to Connecticut and we can go shooting sometime ;) how's that for motivation? :)

Alan Gales
11-Dec-2013, 10:43
I used to have problems with my feet getting cold. The problem was I'd be walking around and my feet would sweat. Then when I was in one spot doing something my feet would freeze. I started wearing one pair of wool socks with uninsulated boots. My feet still would sweat some but the wool socks would whisk away the moisture. This really solved my problem!

Drew Wiley
11-Dec-2013, 10:54
Jac - those bivvy sacks and "coffins" are pretty damn miserable to hole up in unless it's just a sudden emergency. I gave my Bibler bivvy to my Nephew way back
when he climbed Edith Cavell in the Candadian Rockies, and it served it's purpose better for him. My last "coffin" tent took on an ice storm so severe one nite that
a sold rime of water ice two inches thick formed on it, and the whole thing literally shattered! Those are the kind of nites when you wear your raingear INSIDE your
sleeping bag. Fortunately, around 2:00 the rain turned to snow, and a deep powder kept me insulated and alive. After that, I went out and bought a bombproof
Bibler tent, which has never leaked or collapsed. For milder weather, however, I carry one of these newer ultralights - but ya gotta be able to peg those down well
and have a bit of cover - not exactly the thing for 100 mph winds ... which I once survived and then crawled out the next morning to dead calm, then unpacked
my Sinar to shoot the eight-foot long icicles projecting dead horizontal from the cliff face. The glissade back down the access chute was a bit of a cheap thrill too, having become sheer slick water ice. Half of the old beloved ash-handle ice axe is still embedded up there somewhere!

adelorenzo
11-Dec-2013, 11:14
Well it's not large format but here's a shot taken at 40 below to help get you stoked to go out shooting. Provia 400X from a Fuji 6x9.

http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7292/8717073188_08442043a3_z.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/delorenzo/8717073188/)
Sun dogs and ice fog on the Yukon River (http://www.flickr.com/photos/delorenzo/8717073188/) by Anthony DeLorenzo (http://www.flickr.com/people/delorenzo/), on Flickr

John Kasaian
11-Dec-2013, 11:18
A hip flask filled with warm cognc tends to improve my outlook:rolleyes:

Kirk Gittings
11-Dec-2013, 11:36
106426
On the edge of storms, coming or going, is my favorite time to photograph. Wind and water are the big issues. I carry a light disk to ward off wind-holding it at an 90 degree angle (instead perpendicular so that the wind skates over the camera and does not push the disk into the camera), and I carry a plastic bag big enough to go over the camera while setup on the the tripod. I keep the UV filter on the lens in case a little water gets on the lens while setting up and then remove it when ready to actually shoot. Then I just wait for some great light to develop. See this for an example and "the rest of the story"http://esc4p.org/2013/11/tales-from-the-lens-kirk-gittings/

Kirk Gittings
11-Dec-2013, 11:37
106426
On the edge of storms, coming or going, is my favorite time to photograph.-powerful light. Wind and water are the big issues. I carry a light disk to ward off wind-holding it at an 90 degree angle (instead perpendicular so that the wind skates over the camera and does not push the disk into the camera), and I carry a plastic bag big enough to go over the camera while setup on the the tripod. I keep the UV filter on the lens in case a little water gets on the lens while setting up and then remove it when ready to actually shoot. Then I just wait for some great light to develop. See this for an example and "the rest of the story" http://esc4p.org/2013/11/tales-from-the-lens-kirk-gittings/

Vaughn
11-Dec-2013, 11:38
Okay, it really was not very cold when I took this one (on the rim of the Mono Lake Basin). But a friend and I were driving up to Conway Summit when we saw nice rocks sticking out of the snow. So we grabbed cameras to 'check them out'. Thinking it would just be a very short excursion, I did not take my prescription sunglasses. We ended up spending several hours wandering around and I started to have problems with my eyes ("snow blindness"). I ended up wrapping my head with my darkcloth and peering out of a slit. I almost stepped on the skull before seeing it (the footprint is inches out of the frame).

So cold is not the only thing one needs to be aware of when working on snow.

Gowland PocketView 4x5, TMax100
16x20 silver gelatin print

Thad Gerheim
11-Dec-2013, 11:46
It warmed up to the mid 20sF yesterday and felt almost like T-shirt weather, so I was out with the camera.
The main thing that I believe helps, is to keep the blood pumping by staying active. But, those chemical hand warmers called "little hotties" are a big help and can be put in yours boots too.
Before yesterday, we had a week of -20s at night and warming up to around 5 above during the day. Every day I had to put on neoprene chest wadders and go out and chop ice, for about three hours, in the creek that feeds the hydro-electric power plant, so we can keep the lights on. With only a light pair of gloves under rubber gloves I sometimes use the "little hotties" to keep my hands warm.

Kodachrome25
11-Dec-2013, 12:19
I don't see any indication of people heading out into the cold, let alone snow.

I have been out every day for the past 10 days, I shoot for a living though so I am not at all inspired to be in a big hurry to get home, develop film and then get it on the web. In fact, I rarely put stuff on the web in order to protect copyright. Living in a ski town, I probably shoot a lot more in the cold and snow than most for that matter.

Leszek Vogt
11-Dec-2013, 13:04
Don't have much experience with LF, but I tend to choose mt regions (here in WA or Calif), that just had the storm....and they barely had enough time to clean the roads. Timing is everything...well, that's my approach. Some places (near Yellowstone) can have worse weather than arctic, try -40 and -80 chill factor. I have no motivation to tackle weather of this kind.

Les

Drew Wiley
11-Dec-2013, 13:24
One thing you discover early on is that those "shatterproof" plastic ABS equip cases by Pelican etc change their characteristics completely once you get down around zero.... a mild drop or bump and they'll crack. But warm snow is a bigger problem than really cold, because it get things a lot wetter. For road travel, I carry
a tight little Tupperware dessication box with fresh indicator silica gel crystals in it, which has salvaged many a lens or light meter used under adverse conditions.

csxcnj
11-Dec-2013, 14:00
The problem with New England is the moisture, it's actually very humid here even in winter, so it's much colder in a sense then it would be in say Colorado, or in Arizona...

Same applies to the Heat.

I lived in Albuquerque NM for 8 years and worked in construction framing houses. On those 100+ degree days I would comment that I'd rather be dealing with that than a 80+ degree day with high humidity back east. They thought I was crazy or full of crap.

Jac@stafford.net
11-Dec-2013, 14:53
Same applies to the Heat.

I lived in Albuquerque NM for 8 years and worked in construction framing houses. On those 100+ degree days I would comment that I'd rather be dealing with that than a 80+ degree day with high humidity back east. They thought I was crazy or full of crap.

I was a framer I Iowa before nail guns were invented and I agree with you 100%.

StoneNYC
11-Dec-2013, 15:33
Drew, you should write books with the stories you tell ;)


106426
On the edge of storms, coming or going, is my favorite time to photograph.-powerful light. Wind and water are the big issues. I carry a light disk to ward off wind-holding it at an 90 degree angle (instead perpendicular so that the wind skates over the camera and does not push the disk into the camera), and I carry a plastic bag big enough to go over the camera while setup on the the tripod. I keep the UV filter on the lens in case a little water gets on the lens while setting up and then remove it when ready to actually shoot. Then I just wait for some great light to develop. See this for an example and "the rest of the story" http://esc4p.org/2013/11/tales-from-the-lens-kirk-gittings/

Kirk! WOW that is an awesome shot! I had eye surgery a few years back, and I always carry sunglasses wherever I go :) I know to be careful of snow blindness but thanks for the reminder.

Dan, you're life is an adventure :)

I always have a bunch of desiccant packs in my camera boxes, good to know the pelicans can crack in cold... Also good they are guaranteed...

Alan Gales
11-Dec-2013, 16:23
Same applies to the Heat.

I lived in Albuquerque NM for 8 years and worked in construction framing houses. On those 100+ degree days I would comment that I'd rather be dealing with that than a 80+ degree day with high humidity back east. They thought I was crazy or full of crap.

I used to work Sheet Metal here in the St. Louis summers with high humidity. I know what you are talking about! ;)

Jody_S
11-Dec-2013, 19:17
The hardest part is getting tripod legs stable in snow over 3 feet deep, they tend to flex so it is an act of bending them inward before placing them so that they splay out to where I need them once bottomed out. I have been thinking about designing a pair of "Snowshoes" for them so they pack the snow down more but I am always averse to carrying more crap when skiing with my 4x5.

I've seen these for Manfrotto tripods. The secret to deep snow, I find, is to open the tripod legs about 90%, push the tripod down into the snow, and when the legs reach their stops the tripod is fixed enough to photograph from.

jerrybro
11-Dec-2013, 19:22
Dang Kirk!! That is a beautiful image!!

jerrybro
11-Dec-2013, 19:40
Same applies to the Heat.

I lived in Albuquerque NM for 8 years and worked in construction framing houses. On those 100+ degree days I would comment that I'd rather be dealing with that than a 80+ degree day with high humidity back east. They thought I was crazy or full of crap.

I have lived all over the US, at least 20 addresses in 14 states that I can recall at the moment. Humidity sucks the energy right out of you. In the summertime on a hot august day it makes you feel 40 pounds heavier and 20 years older. In the wintertime it adds a cutting sharpness to the wind that makes it feel like it is trying to peel the skin right off you. But the dryness of the West can kill you. It makes the hot and cold feel less so, which can fool you into thinking that you are in better shape than you really are.

All that said. I'll take a New Mexico or Colorado winter anytime over one in Mass., and a Tuscon summer over one in Biloxi or Huntsville AL.

Back on topic, I'll shoot outside in nasty weather with the right base layer. I avoid the rain because the devil sleeps in moist corners creating rust and mold, but snowy weather brings an interesting light, and when the storm stops and the sun comes out, magic can happen. You can always put on more clothes to keep you warm.

Jerry

Jim Galli
11-Dec-2013, 19:52
How do you deal with snow / inclement weather?

I sit in my chair about 8 feet away from my fireplace and add wood as needed.

Sheesh, that one was easy.

Brassai
11-Dec-2013, 21:54
Without meaning to highjack the "mechanics" answers from this thread, permit me to ask what mathematicians would call a "corollary question:" is anyone who lives in the cold states (here in NJ we're back to another 5 days where it doesn't break freezing) actually taking pictures outside?

Yes, of course. Winter is my very favorite time of year to take photos here on the Northern Plains. In fact, I mostly take photos at night. Last week we didn't break zero (F) for days. It was -almost- too cold to snow. Almost. The snow doubles the power of my x7 WL X3200 monolights and I can light up really BIG STUFF in winter! Downside is I must be careful about battery management when it's hitting 28 below. I love ice and snow formations. Ice is to winter as flowers are to spring. I also love the clean, austere landscapes. A good blanket of snow hides a lot of crap, making for cleaner compositions. I love the cold--no one comes out to hassle me, there are no bugs, the air is crisp and clear. I have the expedition clothing needed to handle any temps the Dakotas can throw at me.

Kirk Gittings
11-Dec-2013, 22:31
Dang Kirk!! That is a beautiful image!!

Thank you.

StoneNYC
11-Dec-2013, 22:40
Yes, of course. Winter is my very favorite time of year to take photos here on the Northern Plains. In fact, I mostly take photos at night. Last week we didn't break zero (F) for days. It was -almost- too cold to snow. Almost. The snow doubles the power of my x7 WL X3200 monolights and I can light up really BIG STUFF in winter! Downside is I must be careful about battery management when it's hitting 28 below. I love ice and snow formations. Ice is to winter as flowers are to spring. I also love the clean, austere landscapes. A good blanket of snow hides a lot of crap, making for cleaner compositions. I love the cold--no one comes out to hassle me, there are no bugs, the air is crisp and clear. I have the expedition clothing needed to handle any temps the Dakotas can throw at me.

Agreed! It's so much nicer when the snow hides all the crud and also lights up the area, some of my favorite images are taken in freezing conditions, I just can't show any of them since they were all shot on 120, mostly with my Mamiya 7...

Alan Gales
11-Dec-2013, 22:49
Stone, post them in the Lounge under Safe Haven for Tiny Formats. :cool:

StoneNYC
11-Dec-2013, 22:54
Stone, post them in the Lounge under Safe Haven for Tiny Formats. :cool:

Aren't you a Subscriber on APUG? You can see them there :)

I don't like that thread actually hah!

I'll just have to shoot new ones ;) (or rather develop the ones I shot the other day) to share.

Jac@stafford.net
12-Dec-2013, 06:20
Yes, of course. Winter is my very favorite time of year to take photos here on the Northern Plains. In fact, I mostly take photos at night. Last week we didn't break zero (F) for days. It was -almost- too cold to snow. Almost. The snow doubles the power of my x7 WL X3200 monolights [...]

Have you considered using flash bulbs?

StoneNYC
12-Dec-2013, 07:47
Have you considered using flash bulbs?

Because flashbulbs look like crap, lol, you can't use them to illuminate properly it's always from the front rather than from the side or backlit etc. Using separate strobes allows you to create with the light not just illuminate.

Jac@stafford.net
12-Dec-2013, 09:05
Because flashbulbs look like crap, lol, you can't use them to illuminate properly it's always from the front rather than from the side or backlit etc. Using separate strobes allows you to create with the light not just illuminate.

You can certainly use off-camera flash bulbs placed where you like, without reflectors if you wish, and more than one at a time. They can be triggered via slaves. (Wireless is nothing new to photography) They give a very good soft light that way. The effect in outdoor photography is unique.

I am down to about eight cases of Edison/Mazda base bulbs. :(

StoneNYC
12-Dec-2013, 09:10
You can certainly use off-camera flash bulbs placed where you like, without reflectors if you wish, and more than one at a time. They can be triggered via slaves. (Wireless is nothing new to photography) They give a very good soft light that way. The effect in outdoor photography is unique.

I am down to about eight cases of Edison/Mazda base bulbs. :(

Sounds like a loosing battle (running out of bulbs) but you can use many tools for light, you said flash bulbs so I was thinking "on camera" but I know what you mean.

Of course testing the exposure by wasting a bulb would stink if you only have a few.

Jac@stafford.net
12-Dec-2013, 09:18
[... snip good post ...]
Of course testing the exposure by wasting a bulb would stink if you only have a few.

Ah, yes. Well, flash meters work for flash bulbs, too. I got these bulbs over the years dirt cheap. Our local news photographer used them until he retired in his eighties and left a basement full of them. Now people collect them. The only people who seem to really use and appreciate flashbulbs are Spelunkers.

StoneNYC
12-Dec-2013, 09:29
Ah, yes. Well, flash meters work for flash bulbs, too. I got these bulbs over the years dirt cheap. Our local news photographer used them until he retired in his eighties and left a basement full of them. Now people collect them. The only people who seem to really use and appreciate flashbulbs are Spelunkers.

What does spelunking have to do with flash bulbs? Do caves illuminate differently with flash bulbs then with strobes or Speedlights?

Jac@stafford.net
12-Dec-2013, 09:39
What does spelunking have to do with flash bulbs? Do caves illuminate differently with flash bulbs then with strobes or Speedlights?

Flashbulbs put out hundreds of times the light as strobes, and are far more portable.

Some good info here: http://www.darklightimagery.net/flashbulbs.html

StoneNYC
12-Dec-2013, 10:59
Flashbulbs put out hundreds of times the light as strobes, and are far more portable.

Some good info here: http://www.darklightimagery.net/flashbulbs.html

I read the whole thing, I'm not sure how much of it I believe however, I totally understand the idea of output, and sure if I was going into a cave I probably would not bring my Profoto strobe and battery pack... And I can't remember what the difference in conversion is between lumens and Watt-seconds.. But I'm sure you could illuminate a cave with a speedlight just fine... You might need some kind of reflector device in order to create the same look as the flashbulbs where you would have to have a curved silver reflector just like the flashbulbs have, but it could still be done. However I'm sure there's a certain look that flashbulbs give that would be somehow different than the speed lights, so I understand the value of both, but I don't think it's accurate to say that you could not expose the cave, just that it might look different in certain respects.

Thad Gerheim
12-Dec-2013, 19:54
I think it helps to live in a cold climate for a while, to become acclimated and "numb". It really helps to be young while doing this!
I did about a two mile snowmobile ride from where I used to live to get this photo, I don't remember the temperature. This is in one of the coldest places in the lower forty-eight, you hear the pines freezing and cracking at about -30 and colder.
http://thadgerheim.com/Site_2/Black_%26_White_Landscapes_1_files/Media/Stanley-Basin-Ranch/Stanley-Basin-Ranch.jpg
Ranch in the Stanley Basin

Robert Oliver
12-Dec-2013, 20:31
big ol' windproof golf umbrella works for me... I can somehow make it work.

The umbrella doesn't work that well in the wind, but either does my camera.

In heavy snow, you need somebody to hold it for you because it gets REALLY heavy really quick.

AuditorOne
12-Dec-2013, 21:07
If this is in the wrong forum, mods please feel free to move it.

So I'm relatively new to LF photography. This will be my first winter shooting with my 4x5.

I've looked online and seen a Thone of pictures of guys in snowsuits carrying around their LF cameras with snow completely covering the Bellows.

But my question is how do you deal with this, do you put some kind of coating over it? Or do you just let the moisture collect and then try the camera after you get back from the outside?

I can see only needing to cover the lens which can be done with a bellows shade extension, and the back area of the camera covered by a dark cloth, and the dark cloth is washable dryable etc.

But what about the rest?

What should I do? It's snowing out right now and I want to shoot it but don't want to ruin my equipment either.

Thanks!

Pull alongside in my van, slide the door open, do my picture taking things, move on to the next overlook. :)

It helps if you take the middle seats out first, and use a short tripod. :)

StoneNYC
13-Dec-2013, 01:44
Pull alongside in my van, slide the door open, do my picture taking things, move on to the next overlook. :)

It helps if you take the middle seats out first, and use a short tripod. :)

Your van can climb mountains?

StoneNYC
13-Dec-2013, 01:45
I think it helps to live in a cold climate for a while, to become acclimated and "numb". It really helps to be young while doing this!
I did about a two mile snowmobile ride from where I used to live to get this photo, I don't remember the temperature. This is in one of the coldest places in the lower forty-eight, you hear the pines freezing and cracking at about -30 and colder.
http://thadgerheim.com/Site_2/Black_%26_White_Landscapes_1_files/Media/Stanley-Basin-Ranch/Stanley-Basin-Ranch.jpg
Ranch in the Stanley Basin

Very nice :)

Thad Gerheim
13-Dec-2013, 07:29
Thank-you

John Kasaian
13-Dec-2013, 07:38
Keep the flask inside the coat as at 40 below you can take a good drink and freeze your throat have some major problems.

True that.

Jac@stafford.net
13-Dec-2013, 07:44
[...] I'm sure you could illuminate a cave with a speedlight just fine... You might need some kind of reflector device in order to create the same look as the flashbulbs where you would have to have a curved silver reflector just like the flashbulbs have, but it could still be done.

Look at these (http://www.meggaflash.com/gallery?AG_MK=0&AG_form_paginInitPages_1=1&AG_form_albumInitFolders_1=/gallery1&AG_form_scrollTop=0&AG_form_scrollLeft=0&AG_MK=0) and note the description that tells of the dimensions of the illuminated area.

Large flashbulbs put out enormous amounts of light. I could go through the physics but do not know if I could do it properly. Perhaps PaulR can inform us. He knows. Just consider that a flashbulb puts out light for a much greater duration than the typical studio electronic flash, and that makes the difference in output. I have bulbs that burn for 1.75 seconds each and some Mazda 75 bulbs that I am almost afraid to use.

Sorry to drift OT.

Stephen Willard
13-Dec-2013, 08:48
You might want to consider the Ebony All-Weather focusing hood. It is design to cover the entire camera, lens, and also serve as a focusing cloth. It is extremely well designed including small pockets to put rocks in to dampen the wind. It is made out of a very light weight water proof material that is just the right weight to make it very functional. I use it for rain, snow, or sunny days. I had to adapt it to my Wisner cameras by attaching a hot shoe on the front standard which I bought from Ebony. It is extremely well made, and will last a life time. It is not cheap, but it is the perfect solution for shooting in all kinds of weather. If your going to be shooting in dynamic hostile weather on an on-going bases, then it is worth the investment. Here is the link: http://www.ebonycamera.com/acc.html#All-weather%20focusing%20hood

Hope this helps...

Drew Wiley
13-Dec-2013, 09:35
I'll have to try that open van door technique next time I try to photograph the Enchanted Gorge from atop Goddard Divide.

StoneNYC
13-Dec-2013, 10:12
You might want to consider the Ebony All-Weather focusing hood. It is design to cover the entire camera, lens, and also serve as a focusing cloth. It is extremely well designed including small pockets to put rocks in to dampen the wind. It is made out of a very light weight water proof material that is just the right weight to make it very functional. I use it for rain, snow, or sunny days. I had to adapt it to my Wisner cameras by attaching a hot shoe on the front standard which I bought from Ebony. It is extremely well made, and will last a life time. It is not cheap, but it is the perfect solution for shooting in all kinds of weather. If your going to be shooting in dynamic hostile weather on an on-going bases, then it is worth the investment. Here is the link: http://www.ebonycamera.com/acc.html#All-weather%20focusing%20hood

Hope this helps...

Wow that's a great design! And it locks into the flash shoe?

Looking at some of those other accessories, ebony makes some great stuff!

Their extension tubes and extension backs are great! Why doesn't toyo make that stuff! Grr (I know they make a back but it doesn't adjust... And they don't make tubes...

Such is life!

Thanks, maybe I'll have to make something like that since I can't afford that one hah!

StoneNYC
13-Dec-2013, 10:18
Look at these (http://www.meggaflash.com/gallery?AG_MK=0&AG_form_paginInitPages_1=1&AG_form_albumInitFolders_1=/gallery1&AG_form_scrollTop=0&AG_form_scrollLeft=0&AG_MK=0) and note the description that tells of the dimensions of the illuminated area.

Large flashbulbs put out enormous amounts of light. I could go through the physics but do not know if I could do it properly. Perhaps PaulR can inform us. He knows. Just consider that a flashbulb puts out light for a much greater duration than the typical studio electronic flash, and that makes the difference in output. I have bulbs that burn for 1.75 seconds each and some Mazda 75 bulbs that I am almost afraid to use.

Sorry to drift OT.

It's cool, I asked. Anyway, if you know anything about lights, you know that flash duration doesn't help if it's a fast exposure, and you're much better off with a powerful flash that has a short duration, on the other hand, if you're in a cave, and you have a tripod and the time for a long duration flash, you could also simply repeat the flash of the electronic flash twice or something to effectively extend the amount of light falling on the film plane.

Anyway both have their uses, I just think carrying around a bunch of glass bulbs while belaying down into a cave isn't the smartest move, and if one pops and explodes, then you're introducing glass and metal into a sealed environment that could have adverse affects (although probably minor).

Still I'll take my speedlight if I ever have to go in a cave... And that's saying something as I NEVER use those things because I think they are crap compared to my Profoto gear, but I'm not about to take that into a cave HAH!

Stephen Willard
13-Dec-2013, 10:28
This fall I was shooting the Sangre de Cristo Mountains in Colorado near Saguache. These mountains run north and south and form the eastern boundary of the San Luis Valley which is about 40 miles wide and 90 miles long . The mountain range ends in Santa Fe New Mexico.

I was shooting across the valley between 40 and 50 miles away exclusively with a 1200mm Nikkor lens. The wind in this valley can be relentless, and the slightest vibration of any sorts is amplified a 100 fold with a 1200mm lens. In order to shoot in the wind I gutted all seats in my Montero except the driver seat and shot out the back door. Even then the wind could introduce enough movement in the Montero to make it impossible to shoot. However, with lots of patience I was able to take nine shots over a period of three weeks. I consider the shoots I took as prototypes, and I will be back over a period of 4 years shooting this most amazing range of mountains.

The weather varied from single digit temperatures, snow, rain, and of course lots f…king wind. Shooting from the Montero proved to be a very viable approach to mitigating the elements.

jp
13-Dec-2013, 10:56
This fall I was shooting the Sangre de Cristo Mountains in Colorado near Saguache. These mountains run north and south and form the eastern boundary of the San Luis Valley which is about 40 miles wide and 90 miles long . The mountain range ends in Santa Fe New Mexico.

I was shooting across the valley between 40 and 50 miles away exclusively with a 1200mm Nikkor lens. The wind in this valley can be relentless, and the slightest vibration of any sorts is amplified a 100 fold with a 1200mm lens. In order to shoot in the wind I gutted all seats in my Montero except the driver seat and shot out the back door. Even then the wind could introduce enough movement in the Montero to make it impossible to shoot. However, with lots of patience I was able to take nine shots over a period of three weeks. I consider the shoots I took as prototypes, and I will be back over a period of 4 years shooting this most amazing range of mountains.

The weather varied from single digit temperatures, snow, rain, and of course lots f…king wind. Shooting from the Montero proved to be a very viable approach to mitigating the elements.

I gutted the seats in my previous car simply because I was just using them for horizontal storage. Out came the passenger seat and it was replaced with milk crates for my tool bag, cameras, etc...

You could use a set of jacks or diagonally wedge something to prevent the Montero from rocking. We don't usually get to see 40-50 miles because the nation's pollution ends up in our air by the usual natural jetstream patterns.

I've shot with a 2000mm mirror lens on a DSLR and basically had to get to my hilltop spot early in the morning before the sun started heating things and producing shimmering. A gentle breeze to prevent atmospheric temperature layers from affecting image sharpness, but not enough breeze to unsettle the camera/lens/tripod stability. Done wrong, the results can be worse than a 300/2.8 on the DSLR, which isn't bad.

StoneNYC
13-Dec-2013, 11:02
This fall I was shooting the Sangre de Cristo Mountains in Colorado near Saguache. These mountains run north and south and form the eastern boundary of the San Luis Valley which is about 40 miles wide and 90 miles long . The mountain range ends in Santa Fe New Mexico.

I was shooting across the valley between 40 and 50 miles away exclusively with a 1200mm Nikkor lens. The wind in this valley can be relentless, and the slightest vibration of any sorts is amplified a 100 fold with a 1200mm lens. In order to shoot in the wind I gutted all seats in my Montero except the driver seat and shot out the back door. Even then the wind could introduce enough movement in the Montero to make it impossible to shoot. However, with lots of patience I was able to take nine shots over a period of three weeks. I consider the shoots I took as prototypes, and I will be back over a period of 4 years shooting this most amazing range of mountains.

The weather varied from single digit temperatures, snow, rain, and of course lots f…king wind. Shooting from the Montero proved to be a very viable approach to mitigating the elements.

Wow you're epic! Hah!

1200mm Nikor on what system?

Also, you should get those stabilizer feet that lift the car tires off the ground so you can eliminate suspension movement since you plan to go multiple times it might be something to think about, like construction equipment have but obviously smaller version. Just a thought.

Jac@stafford.net
13-Dec-2013, 11:19
Also, you should get those stabilizer feet that lift the car tires off the ground so you can eliminate suspension movement since you plan to go multiple times it might be something to think about, like construction equipment have but obviously smaller version. Just a thought.

Camper jacks, also called stabilizers. There are small versions that work on SUVs. There are some nifty electric models. You only need two.

Place them under the jack lift points of each side. Do not lift the wheels off the ground. :)

StoneNYC
13-Dec-2013, 11:30
Camper jacks, also called stabilizers. There are small versions that work on SUVs. There are some nifty electric models. You only need two.

Place them under the jack lift points of each side. Do not lift the wheels off the ground. :)

No, you need 4 to fully suspend the car apart from the suspension...

Jac@stafford.net
13-Dec-2013, 13:54
No, you need 4 to fully suspend the car apart from the suspension...

Two will suffice. I stand by that from experience. So we differ. Let it be, for better or not.


.

Stephen Willard
13-Dec-2013, 13:59
Wow you're epic! Hah!

1200mm Nikor on what system?

Also, you should get those stabilizer feet that lift the car tires off the ground so you can eliminate suspension movement since you plan to go multiple times it might be something to think about, like construction equipment have but obviously smaller version. Just a thought.

My name is not epic. It is Stephen, but my wife, at times, has more descriptive names for me:(.

I am going to look into getting some stabilizers for my SUV. Thanks for the suggestion. It is a cool idea and boy could I have used them.

I use the Nikkor-T ED 1200 f18.0 convertible lens. It comes with a 600mm, 800,mm and 1200mm rear elements that are interchangeable. I had to make a homemade bellows extension. I bought the suit of lenses without knowing if I could actually make a bellows extension that could pass through the front standard.

I got lucky. My solution works perfectly with both my Wisner 4x10 expedition and my 5x7 pocket expedition cameras. Unfortunately, it takes a lot of time to setup and compose a photograph. The difference between 800mm and 1200mm is fairly large, and so I am now trying to find a 1000mm lens to fill the hole. I could have used a 1000mm lens several times while I was shooting the Sangre de Cristo range.

This was my first time shooting 40-50 mile ranges. The mountains are so huge that for years when I drove by on highway 285 on the opposite side of the San Luis Valley, I thought they were only five miles. Only when I was investigating the area on my TOPO map software did I realize they were 40 miles away.

One thing I did learn from this experience is with great distances, the slightest humidity in the air can add up to intense haze that polarizers and UV 2A haze filter cannot even take out. So the biggest two obstacles were wind and haze. I found just after a storm passed through the valley, the air was clear, but not for long.

Attached are some photos of my wacky home made bellows. Do not laugh because it really does work quite well even though its appearance may invite ridicule.

StoneNYC
13-Dec-2013, 14:16
My name is not epic. It is Stephen, but my wife, at times, has more descriptive names for me:(.

I am going to look into getting some stabilizers for my SUV. Thanks for the suggestion. It is a cool idea and boy could I have used them.

I use the Nikkor-T ED 1200 f18.0 convertible lens. It comes with a 600mm, 800,mm and 1200mm rear elements that are interchangeable. I had to make a homemade bellows extension. I bought the suit of lenses without knowing if I could actually make a bellows extension that could pass through the front standard.

I got lucky. My solution works perfectly with both my Wisner 4x10 expedition and my 5x7 pocket expedition cameras. Unfortunately, it takes a lot of time to setup and compose a photograph. The difference between 800mm and 1200mm is fairly large, and so I am now trying to find a 1000mm lens to fill the hole. I could have used a 1000mm lens several times while I was shooting the Sangre de Cristo range.

This was my first time shooting 40-50 mile ranges. The mountains are so huge that for years when I drove by on highway 285 on the opposite side of the San Luis Valley, I thought they were only five miles. Only when I was investigating the area on my TOPO map software did I realize they were 40 miles away.

One thing I did learn from this experience is with great distances, the slightest humidity in the air can add up to intense haze that polarizers and UV 2A haze filter cannot even take out. So the biggest two obstacles were wind and haze. I found just after a storm passed through the valley, the air was clear, but not for long.

Attached are some photos of my wacky home made bellows. Do not laugh because it really does work quite well even though its appearance may invite ridicule.

OMG!!! Hahaha sorry but I was totally laughing at that!! It's awesome but really funny, especially as an expedition setup!! Haha

Hey you'll get the shot at least!

The image circle must be much bigger I would imagine? A 20x24 would be no problem for that lens?

The GG must be very dim?

The biggest lens I own is the one I got in the mail today!! It's very small, even for it's mm... Fujinon 300 C f/8.5

So, can we see an actual image from the Camera of these mountains you keep talking about? Even a small size one? :)

Drew Wiley
13-Dec-2013, 14:22
For those really long views I prefer working with my Sinar Norma. I have a 28" bellow for it, and it is wonderfully stable atop a Ries tripod. But if it needs to be a rapid potshot from the road in bad weather, I might use a long lens on a Pentax 6x7 instead. Neither system is ideal on true backcountry trips, however, in which case I've started to cheat by using a 6x9 rollfilm back on the 4x5 Ebony. That way I can really reach the distance using less bellows extension, and still get reasonable quality with Ektar of ACROS etc, provided I don't over-enlarge. At a certain point, you basically break even, since atmospheric heat or haze sometimes prevents full detail in a 4x5, even through appropriate filters. ... Or maybe I'm just getting lazy. I don't mind a 75lb pack up above nine or ten thousand feet, but down around seven or lower, I don't handle the summer heat very well anymore. I covet just carrying sixty pounds, but it isn't very realistic on longer trips. Here closer to home, the wind is incessant except this time of year. So one learns how to time things. But I never shoot anything longer than a 600mm on the 8x10 -
just too much of a kite.

Drew Wiley
13-Dec-2013, 14:34
Stone - you smart-alec whippershanpper flatlander (let's see, did I leave anything out?) - in the places where Stephen and I like to photograph, God built the skyscrapers and cathedrals, and they're a lot bigger and more impressive than what you've got in NYC, or any other city for that matter. Even in the canyon I grew up on the edge of, one could drop the whole of Manhattan in the bottom of it and the whole damn thing would probably just be one more little zit at the foot of some granite dome. REAL photographers know the joys of horsefly and mosquito bites, of having to crawl out of the sack to have your pee almost freeze instantly, of accidentally stepping on a dead porcupine barefoot in the dark, of damn near stepping on a rattlesnake, and of and of hoping another ice bridge doesn't collapse under you before you've even had time to thaw from the last dunking. Head out West, and probably either one of us would be happy to introduce
you to REAL large format work.

Nathan Potter
13-Dec-2013, 14:36
I believe the 1200 Nikon T lens will cover about 8 X 10. I'd say the rig shown by Stephen will be tough to accomplish really good sharp images with. I would recommend using an optical bench type rig on a single rail where the components can be locked down firmly. Then the rail needs to be mounted onto something solid (I often use a rock with bean bags). Finally work on a non windy day with a clear view.

I often use the companion Nikor T 360 to 720 and have a frightful time with vibration at the 720 mm end. Good luck with the 1200 mm Stephen! By the way I also work that high valley north of Alamosa frequently. Unfortunately there are few large boulders for a camera mount along the valley floor but I'll make use of an occasional picnic table.

Nate Potter, Austin TX.

Stephen Willard
13-Dec-2013, 14:43
OMG!!! Hahaha sorry but I was totally laughing at that!! It's awesome but really funny, especially as an expedition setup!! Haha

Hey you'll get the shot at least!

The image circle must be much bigger I would imagine? A 20x24 would be no problem for that lens?

The GG must be very dim?

The biggest lens I own is the one I got in the mail today!! It's very small, even for it's mm... Fujinon 300 C f/8.5

So, can we see an actual image from the Camera of these mountains you keep talking about? Even a small size one? :)

The 1200mm lens is designed to cover 8x10. The GG is not bad. However, you do have to get used to it.

It will be a while before I have those images ready. I did take some low resolution point-n-shoot digital images for my database records I keep of each composition I am monitoring. They are not great, but they will give you and rough idea of what I am talking about. Oops, for some reason the uploader will NOT let me load my point-n-shoots… Sorry.

The photograph that is attached to the bottom of my postings was taken with the 1200mm lens. You can see more of my work at www.stephenwillard.com

Stephen Willard
13-Dec-2013, 15:03
I believe the 1200 Nikon T lens will cover about 8 X 10. I'd say the rig shown by Stephen will be tough to accomplish really good sharp images with. I would recommend using an optical bench type rig on a single rail where the components can be locked down firmly. Then the rail needs to be mounted onto something solid (I often use a rock with bean bags). Finally work on a non windy day with a clear view.

I often use the companion Nikor T 360 to 720 and have a frightful time with vibration at the 720 mm end. Good luck with the 1200 mm Stephen! By the way I also work that high valley north of Alamosa frequently. Unfortunately there are few large boulders for a camera mount along the valley floor but I'll make use of an occasional picnic table.

Nate Potter, Austin TX.

It took me two years to figure out how to shoot my 720mm lens without getting any vibration. It is a cheap inexpensive trick. I simply made a big adjustable rubber band from a bungee cord with cord slide-lock on one end to adjust the tension of the rubber band. I then attach one end of the cord to the front standard and then run it through the tripod legs underneath the tripod head. I then attach the other end of the cord to the rear stand. I use this configuration for my 300mm, 360mm, 400mm, 500mm and 600mm lenses. It works great. Attached are some photos that show the cord.

Jac@stafford.net
13-Dec-2013, 15:14
[...] if you know anything about lights, you know that flash duration doesn't help if it's a fast exposure, and you're much better off with a powerful flash that has a short duration, on the other hand, if you're in a cave, and you have a tripod and the time for a long duration flash, you could also simply repeat the flash of the electronic flash twice or something to effectively extend the amount of light falling on the film plane.

Twice? No way. You would have to make a hundred flashes to come close to the output of a big flashbulb.
.

Stephen Willard
13-Dec-2013, 15:16
Stone - you smart-alec whippershanpper flatlander (let's see, did I leave anything out?) - in the places where Stephen and I like to photograph, God built the skyscrapers and cathedrals, and they're a lot bigger and more impressive than what you've got in NYC, or any other city for that matter. Even in the canyon I grew up on the edge of, one could drop the whole of Manhattan in the bottom of it and the whole damn thing would probably just be one more little zit at the foot of some granite dome. REAL photographers know the joys of horsefly and mosquito bites, of having to crawl out of the sack to have your pee almost freeze instantly, of accidentally stepping on a dead porcupine barefoot in the dark, of damn near stepping on a rattlesnake, and of and of hoping another ice bridge doesn't collapse under you before you've even had time to thaw from the last dunking. Head out West, and probably either one of us would be happy to introduce
you to REAL large format work.

I have lived on the east coast and in the west, and I think Drew is being modest. The west is truly magnificent. If you can get into the back country out here, it is even better. I use two llamas and my backpack to port around 250 pounds of gear into places that I wish I could share with all of you. We can stay in for up to 30 days before we have to return for provisions and fresh film.

There are no words for what I witnessed. My experiences in the back country have humbled my ego to say the least.

Hi Drew...

StoneNYC
13-Dec-2013, 15:45
Stone - you smart-alec whippershanpper flatlander (let's see, did I leave anything out?) - in the places where Stephen and I like to photograph, God built the skyscrapers and cathedrals, and they're a lot bigger and more impressive than what you've got in NYC, or any other city for that matter. Even in the canyon I grew up on the edge of, one could drop the whole of Manhattan in the bottom of it and the whole damn thing would probably just be one more little zit at the foot of some granite dome. REAL photographers know the joys of horsefly and mosquito bites, of having to crawl out of the sack to have your pee almost freeze instantly, of accidentally stepping on a dead porcupine barefoot in the dark, of damn near stepping on a rattlesnake, and of and of hoping another ice bridge doesn't collapse under you before you've even had time to thaw from the last dunking. Head out West, and probably either one of us would be happy to introduce
you to REAL large format work.

Haha I may be from CT but I'm only half flatlander... :) spent a lot of time in VT as a kid with my uncle, shooting (not with a camera). Though I never learned to hunt because my mother said no LOL.

And if you were a real camper (like me) you would know to keep a Nalgene bottle in your tent that you never use for drinking, and that keeps you warm in your sleeping bag after use :) :whistling:

StoneNYC
13-Dec-2013, 15:54
I have lived on the east coast and in the west, and I think Drew is being modest. The west is truly magnificent. If you can get into the back country out here, it is even better. I use two llamas and my backpack to port around 250 pounds of gear into places that I wish I could share with all of you. We can stay in for up to 30 days before we have to return for provisions and fresh film.

There are no words for what I witnessed. My experiences in the back country have humbled my ego to say the least.

Hi Drew...

I haven't hiked as much as I've liked in my life thus far but I've hiked The Canyon twice so far with 80lbs (8days, 35mm gear and Kodachrome) the first time, and 70lbs (6 days and Mamiya 7/120 Fuji & Ilford the second) so I'm no stranger to being out in the country, both times were in January where you had to wear crampons at the top so you didn't slip on the ice and fall into the canyon in -5 to -15 temps (but at the bottom of course it's 65 degrees in the day and you need to being gear for both seasons when it drops to 0 or less at night).

I know that's amateur hour compared to -40 or whatever, but I'm just saying I'm not completely all talk...

Vaughn
13-Dec-2013, 16:09
I haven't hiked as much as I've liked in my life thus far but I've hiked The Canyon twice so far with 80lbs (8days, 35mm gear and Kodachrome) the first time, and 70lbs (6 days and Mamiya 7/120 Fuji & Ilford the second) so I'm no stranger to being out in the country, both times were in January where you had to wear crampons at the top so you didn't slip on the ice and fall into the canyon in -5 to -15 temps (but at the bottom of course it's 65 degrees in the day and you need to being gear for both seasons when it drops to 0 or less at night).

During a trip down into the Canyon in January many years ago, the only time it got above freezing was if one was in the sun -- which was not very often and not for very long. We went down the Bright Angel and came back up to the rim on the Boucher/Hermit Trails.

It was nice we did not have to worry about the eggs I took -- they remained frozen the whole time! I had to thaw one over the stove before I could mix it into the Sesame Burger mix that we had for several dinners. We arrived on the rim at the start of a 3-day snow storm, had a week of cloudless (but cold) weather, and another snow storm once we were back on the rim. The whole South Rim lost power during both storms -- so there was free food at the Bright Angel Lodge! An old girlfriend was working/living there at the time, so we had a semi-warm place to sit out the storms.

Fantastic place!

Drew Wiley
13-Dec-2013, 16:27
The canyon I grew up right next to is twice as deep as the Grand Canyon. Sections of it probably didn't see five people in a century (of course, now they'd like to
dam that too, if they could afford it). A real mountain man doesn't know what "nalgene" means. I walked into REI a few months ago looking for just an ordinary
canteen for a couple bucks. They didn't have any, but did have dozens of silly fancy water bottles in all kinds of colors and shapes for twenty or thirty or forty dollars apiece. So I suggested to a friend who works there that we could make a lot of money by coming up with a whole aisle of expensive designer pee bottles in
all kinds of colors and shapes. Just so you remember which bottle is the canteen, and which the other one in a dark tent. But I usually have to get up a couple times a nite anyway just to fluff the compressed goose down.

Vaughn
13-Dec-2013, 16:56
Size does not matter, as long as it is big (and beautiful)..:cool:

Drew Wiley
13-Dec-2013, 16:59
Vaughn - my favorite season for SW canyon backpacking is November - pleasant days but dreadfully cold nites. I found a wonderful campsite on pine needles back
somewhere in the Kolob system, with a little spring trickling from a two-thousand-foot sheer cliff face, and fortunately had a zero-degree bag. But I kept getting pestered all nite by a little ringtail determined to get into my pack, so I turned it into a pillow to guard it. So he decided simply to walk over me to get into it. I turned on my flashlight and there the little guy was, with those huge eyes, staring at me about six inches from my own face. So I simply did a huge kick from inside the bag, and the critter flipped way up in the air - they don't weigh much - safely landed in the pine needles, and decided to quit bothering me. I would really like to get back to some of those canyons again - but the temperature extremes! I've tried to slake my morning thirst in the heat while by jumping on the ice with an 85lb pack on - even had view lens elements separate once from the day/nite temp swings. No wonder the Anasazi suffered so badly from arthritis.

Vaughn
13-Dec-2013, 17:31
The last two weeks of April has always been my favorite tine time down in the Canyon -- do not have enough experience elsewhere in the SW to have favorite times.

Ringtails stole my sprouts (and sprouting bag) in the Yolla Bollys, cute rascals!.

StoneNYC
13-Dec-2013, 18:24
During a trip down into the Canyon in January many years ago, the only time it got above freezing was if one was in the sun -- which was not very often and not for very long. We went down the Bright Angel and came back up to the rim on the Boucher/Hermit Trails.

It was nice we did not have to worry about the eggs I took -- they remained frozen the whole time! I had to thaw one over the stove before I could mix it into the Sesame Burger mix that we had for several dinners. We arrived on the rim at the start of a 3-day snow storm, had a week of cloudless (but cold) weather, and another snow storm once we were back on the rim. The whole South Rim lost power during both storms -- so there was free food at the Bright Angel Lodge! An old girlfriend was working/living there at the time, so we had a semi-warm place to sit out the storms.

Fantastic place!

Oh yea, Bright Angel is still cold, I generally only hike half of it per day with my pack so I stop at bright angel then descend to phantom ranch the next day. Basically right in the ranch area is the only place it gets warm, but the rest of the time even in the sun it barely breaks freezing.

I love how it's so frigid at the top but not so bad at the bottom but even coming away from the phantom ranch area to my camp site (I couldn't afford even one day at phantom ranch) at the bright angel campground which is only a few hundred feet away was so cold!

I was honestly shocked when I actually got down there the first time, with all the amenities they had going on, I was very very disappointed almost that it was quite so luxurious. I expected the canyon to be so rugged, and here they had running water, and bathrooms... And the phantom ranch people even have showers! It's kind of ridiculous... But the hike itself of course is strenuous when you're carrying 80lbs on your back.. Next time I go I'm going to try and figure out how I can possibly keep it to 60, I don't quite know how considering that I'm going to be shooting with a heavy metal 4x5, but I just don't want to do those 80lb days anymore, it's actually not the weight that kills me or anything with my legs, it's my feet, I've always had really really soft skin, I know it's ridiculous and it sounds not manly, but for some reason I have British/Sweedish skin and it's very soft and easily blisters and my feet (or the skin) can't take the weight... Even if my back and legs are fine...

I will probably have to get a new pack system, my pack is actually very heavy on its own, but it happens to be really well-designed and doesn't cause any kind of hip chafing and is sort of a hybrid between a soft frame pack and a full hard frame pack. But it's heavy...

AuditorOne
13-Dec-2013, 22:08
Your van can climb mountains?

Sure. Yours won't?

A couple electric stabilizer legs can be handy if the wind is blowing.

I am not quite ready to try Goddard Divide. But there is absolutely gorgeous country all over the West that is amazingly accessible via public access. Unlike my experiences in the East where everything seems to be blocked off by private land. :(

StoneNYC
13-Dec-2013, 23:19
Sure. Yours won't?

A couple electric stabilizer legs can be handy if the wind is blowing.

I am not quite ready to try Goddard Divide. But there is absolutely gorgeous country all over the West that is amazingly accessible via public access. Unlike my experiences in the East where everything seems to be blocked off by private land. :(

True, East has a lot of... Private property...

Jac@stafford.net
13-Dec-2013, 23:51
Haha I may be from CT but I'm only half flatlander... :)

I am originally from Rhode Island, lived in Connecticut. My father and I hiked all over New England in the Fifties. Mount Frissell and Bear Mountain were regular get-aways. But now after having lived all over the county (and France and England) I stick to West of the Mississippi. Your conversation has me itching to hit the road again. As soon as my new truck is broken-in I'm heading to Arcata, California

StoneNYC
14-Dec-2013, 07:24
I am originally from Rhode Island, lived in Connecticut. My father and I hiked all over New England in the Fifties. Mount Frissell and Bear Mountain were regular get-aways. But now after having lived all over the county (and France and England) I stick to West of the Mississippi. Your conversation has me itching to hit the road again. As soon as my new truck is broken-in I'm heading to Arcata, California

Cool, you should do it, hit the road have some fun, by the way I'm surprised that you were able to leave Rhode Island, you know since most Rhode Islanders don't go more than a couple streets from their home their entire lives...

Vaughn
14-Dec-2013, 12:31
... As soon as my new truck is broken-in I'm heading to Arcata, California

Let me know when you get to Arcata -- "Where the Sixties meet the sea" -- if you would like to meet up.

Jac@stafford.net
14-Dec-2013, 17:38
Let me know when you get to Arcata -- "Where the Sixties meet the sea" -- if you would like to meet up.

Will do! My next younger brother lives there. He is recovering from a heart valve replacement and I owe him some company.

eddie
14-Dec-2013, 18:58
How do you deal with snow / inclement weather?

I sit in my chair about 8 feet away from my fireplace and add wood as needed.

Sheesh, that one was easy.

what jim said......btw jim, i will be in vegas in jan......coffee is on me.

jerrybro
14-Dec-2013, 19:51
...but I'm not about to take that into a cave HAH!

Screw the flash, I'm not going in!

jerrybro
14-Dec-2013, 20:06
This fall I was shooting the Sangre de Cristo Mountains in Colorado near Saguache. These mountains run north and south and form the eastern boundary of the San Luis Valley which is about 40 miles wide and 90 miles long . The mountain range ends in Santa Fe New Mexico.

I was shooting across the valley between 40 and 50 miles away exclusively with a 1200mm Nikkor lens. The wind in this valley can be relentless, and the slightest vibration of any sorts is amplified a 100 fold with a 1200mm lens. In order to shoot in the wind I gutted all seats in my Montero except the driver seat and shot out the back door. Even then the wind could introduce enough movement in the Montero to make it impossible to shoot. However, with lots of patience I was able to take nine shots over a period of three weeks. I consider the shoots I took as prototypes, and I will be back over a period of 4 years shooting this most amazing range of mountains.

The weather varied from single digit temperatures, snow, rain, and of course lots f…king wind. Shooting from the Montero proved to be a very viable approach to mitigating the elements.

A dozen or so years ago I had the opportunity to use the rare 2000mm Nikkor at night to take full frame shots, on film, of the moon. We used a car for support with all kinds of padding and bracing under the camera and lens. North Carolina at night in the summer. It was windless, clear, and the beer was cold. I don't remember which slr we used , but it took us a while using the menus to figure out the self timer for the shot.

jerrybro
14-Dec-2013, 20:22
It took me two years to figure out how to shoot my 720mm lens without getting any vibration. It is a cheap inexpensive trick. I simply made a big adjustable rubber band from a bungee cord with cord slide-lock on one end to adjust the tension of the rubber band. I then attach one end of the cord to the front standard and then run it through the tripod legs underneath the tripod head. I then attach the other end of the cord to the rear stand. I use this configuration for my 300mm, 360mm, 400mm, 500mm and 600mm lenses. It works great. Attached are some photos that show the cord.

I used to teach a course that dealt with practical optical metrology and I always started it with a simple equation, Vibration = Death. There are 3 ways to deal with vibration. Add a lot of mass, design a very rigid structure, or stress the structure you're stuck with. What you are doing is stressing the bed by bending it using the tripod. If you do it a lot the bed will get looser. But, if you only need it once in a while it is a very good idea.

jerrybro
14-Dec-2013, 20:30
Cool, you should do it, hit the road have some fun, by the way I'm surprised that you were able to leave Rhode Island, you know since most Rhode Islanders don't go more than a couple streets from their home their entire lives...
I grew up in Pawtucket, that is too true.

Stephen Willard
14-Dec-2013, 23:10
I used to teach a course that dealt with practical optical metrology and I always started it with a simple equation, Vibration = Death. There are 3 ways to deal with vibration. Add a lot of mass, design a very rigid structure, or stress the structure you're stuck with. What you are doing is stressing the bed by bending it using the tripod. If you do it a lot the bed will get looser. But, if you only need it once in a while it is a very good idea.

I have been using this method and variations of this method for 10 years now, and I have not noticed the rails loosening up. I only use the bungee cord for 300mm to 400mm when there is wind. With the longer focal lens I always use the cord. That said, your point is well taken, and I will now be watching for any slop that the cord may introduce into the bed rails. Thanks.

Jody_S
14-Dec-2013, 23:46
How do you deal with snow / inclement weather?

I sit in my chair about 8 feet away from my fireplace and add wood as needed.

Sheesh, that one was easy.

Staying indoors in front of a fireplace from late November til early April is not really an option here, at least not if I want to retain whatever tenuous grasp on sanity I still hold. There's a blizzard moving through tonight and tomorrow, and all I'm thinking is that I would like to go out with the 5x7 and see if I can capture some nice streetlight blowing snow urban landscapes. And then I see the thermometer is at -21, and I think perhaps the urban landscapes can wait til tomorrow.

StoneNYC
15-Dec-2013, 01:13
So far I've only ventured out in the snow a few times, and next to my car, but all night shots, so I'm not a total wuss.

Anyway I'm going out to try and shoot some skimpy dressed women on rocks near the ocean under snow with my 4x5 and possibly some strobes... This should be interesting...

Though I may end up switching to "tiny" gear to get the job done, ya know, better to get the shot in "low quality" than not get the shot at all... :)

jerrybro
15-Dec-2013, 05:26
So far I've only ventured out in the snow a few times, and next to my car, but all night shots, so I'm not a total wuss.

Anyway I'm going out to try and shoot some skimpy dressed women on rocks near the ocean under snow with my 4x5 and possibly some strobes... This should be interesting...

Though I may end up switching to "tiny" gear to get the job done, ya know, better to get the shot in "low quality" than not get the shot at all... :)
Not fair to the model unless you dress the same way.

StoneNYC
15-Dec-2013, 08:15
Not fair to the model unless you dress the same way.

Never make a model do anything, in fact it was her idea...

Jac@stafford.net
15-Dec-2013, 14:35
Never make a model do anything, in fact it was her idea...

In rural Iowa I was invited to a Winter party where the daughter of neighbor farmer Jones attended.

The next morning farmer Jones waded through the sleeping bodies in our living room shouting, "Just who in hell is Jac Stafford?"

Too blurry to act wisely I rose my hand, and he yelled in my face with a force that drained sinuses a mile around, "I otta shoot you. That's yer name written in pee in the snow outside!"

"Yea", I replied, "Could be. So what?

"So what? It's in my daughter's handwriting!"

Racer X 69
15-Dec-2013, 16:12
I have found that photographing in lousy weather usually doesn't yield worthwhile images, because the light is so flat. I wait until the sun comes out, and then usually only have to deal with the cold. Snow and ice in bright sunshine - now yer talkin'!

In the meantime, comfort food, good wine, a fireplace, Bill Evans on the stereo, and a blonde.

Nice approach!

And I'd be doing pretty much the same thing while waiting for the ideal conditions.

Racer X 69
15-Dec-2013, 16:24
I am still searching for that ideal pair of gloves that will allow me to keep my fingers toasty while performing the finesse movements required on a VC.

Many years ago I came across some knit gloves with silver mylar filaments woven into them at a military surplus store. They are thin and fit snugly enough that I can wear them under my ski gloves.

When I need the dexterity of bare fingers I can slip the heavier gloves off and get things done then put the warmer glove back on, and the mylar reflects the warmth in my fingers, keeping them toasty.

jp
15-Dec-2013, 18:04
I enjoyed about 2 hours in the snow today after a foot of the stuff swirled down from the heavens. The usual areas I walk, but slower with the 8x10 instead of rolleiflex/speed graphic/DSLR. Sled, Pelican case full of film holders, jacket to wrap camera and use for dark cloth, camera, tripod, warm clothes.

Surviving in monster blizzards atop west coast mountains and 30 below isn't necessary to have fun with snow and camera. I walked about a half mile from my house and ventured not more than 50' off the freshly plowed road.

106739

Thad Gerheim
15-Dec-2013, 18:47
It's the shorter daylight hours that bother me the most. I end up with cabin fever from sitting in front of the computer too long and I think its obvious that I'm not the only one! I suppose I could vent by posting on the print pricing thread, but it's only December and I'd like to try and hold out until at least the end of January. A nice thing about winter is the low angle of the sun. Although, I don't think I could do many winters in Whitehorse, Yukon. There are hotsprings close by, aren't there?

StoneNYC
15-Dec-2013, 19:39
In rural Iowa I was invited to a Winter party where the daughter of neighbor farmer Jones attended.

The next morning farmer Jones waded through the sleeping bodies in our living room shouting, "Just who in hell is Jac Stafford?"

Too blurry to act wisely I rose my hand, and he yelled in my face with a force that drained sinuses a mile around, "I otta shoot you. That's yer name written in pee in the snow outside!"

"Yea", I replied, "Could be. So what?

"So what? It's in my daughter's handwriting!"

This story has to be made up, it can't possibly be true?? LOL

Racer X 69
15-Dec-2013, 20:19
This story has to be made up, it can't possibly be true?? LOL

I heard a version of it when Nixon was president, it was Haldeman's pee and Mrs. Nixon's handwriting.

adelorenzo
15-Dec-2013, 20:57
It's the shorter daylight hours that bother me the most. I end up with cabin fever from sitting in front of the computer too long and I think its obvious that I'm not the only one! I suppose I could vent by posting on the print pricing thread, but it's only December and I'd like to try and hold out until at least the end of January. A nice thing about winter is the low angle of the sun. Although, I don't think I could do many winters in Whitehorse, Yukon. There are hotsprings close by, aren't there?

Well, we are getting down to 5+ hours of daylight which is a bit of a drag. The upside, like you said, is the low angle light. It's basically golden hour all day.

Shot 4 sheets of 4x5 today, it was a very warm -5 C! Negs have dried and look great.

StoneNYC
15-Dec-2013, 21:43
It's exactly 32 degrees F right now, warm compared to the past few days.

Shot 4 sheets of TMY-2 on my street near my house tonight, 1 minute-ish exposures with my brand new (to me) Fujinon 300mm C f/8.5 lens.

Everything is ice right now.

I spent all day outfitting my camera with Velcro and then trying to sew the other half onto some red duveyteen (cause why not be bold if you're going to be shooting in a white out!) until I broke the sewing needle. Will work on it more tomorrow.

I have one of those black coat dark cloths that you're supposed to be able to put your arms through but I never use it that way. I can't decide if I like it or not, sometimes I would just rather use a dark cloth.

I really like that Ebony camera cover thing that someone else posted but no way will I pay that much.

So I guess it's back to the sewing machine tomorrow...

I'm really surprised someone didn't design a larger bellows, instead of just a bellows extension for the lens, actually making a larger bellows for the entire camera to protect it that extended in both directions and attached to the cold shoe or something haha.

Vaughn
15-Dec-2013, 23:35
Photographed with the under the redwoods today. A little on the cold side under the trees, but walking a couple of miles warmed me up -- then I ended up photographing in a large opening with the sun on me and had to take off a couple of layers (thin jacket and my vest -- that left me in my light wool sweater and t-shirt.). I had long pants on...a rarity for me!

Being in the sun confused me a bit. Ended up accidently double-exposing one of the 4x10's on the 8x10 sheet, but caught it in time to get it properly on the other half.

StoneNYC
16-Dec-2013, 03:14
Photographed with the under the redwoods today. A little on the cold side under the trees, but walking a couple of miles warmed me up -- then I ended up photographing in a large opening with the sun on me and had to take off a couple of layers (thin jacket and my vest -- that left me in my light wool sweater and t-shirt.). I had long pants on...a rarity for me!

Being in the sun confused me a bit. Ended up accidently double-exposing one of the 4x10's on the 8x10 sheet, but caught it in time to get it properly on the other half.

Can you elaborate on this? I'm not that familiar with 4 x 10 cameras, but are you saying that you actually were carrying two separate large-format cameras???

Or simply that you have holders that fit in an 8x10, that are sized for 4 x 10? And if so are you able to get two separate images on one side by shifting the holder from the top to the bottom area?

Vaughn
16-Dec-2013, 09:12
Can you elaborate on this? I'm not that familiar with 4 x 10 cameras, but are you saying that you actually were carrying two separate large-format cameras???

Or simply that you have holders that fit in an 8x10, that are sized for 4 x 10? And if so are you able to get two separate images on one side by shifting the holder from the top to the bottom area?

One camera (8x10) and a modified darkslide -- two 4x10 images on a sheet of 8x10 film. Typically I center the lens on the 4x10 image area using rise/fall for horizontals or shift for verticals. With horizontals, for the second image (if I am photographing the same thing) I just remove the camera back and rotate it 180 degrees. With verticals, I need to re-compose the image on the second 4x10.

I accidently slid in the modified darkslide 'up-side down' for the second shot, throwing a second image on top of the first one.

StoneNYC
16-Dec-2013, 11:59
One camera (8x10) and a modified darkslide -- two 4x10 images on a sheet of 8x10 film. Typically I center the lens on the 4x10 image area using rise/fall for horizontals or shift for verticals. With horizontals, for the second image (if I am photographing the same thing) I just remove the camera back and rotate it 180 degrees. With verticals, I need to re-compose the image on the second 4x10.

I accidently slid in the modified darkslide 'up-side down' for the second shot, throwing a second image on top of the first one.

Oh I see, thanks.

AuditorOne
16-Dec-2013, 21:02
post #7520 in the small formats topic shows one I did today in 30mph winds with gusts 10 mph more. Would have love to shoot this with an 8x20 but conditions and time both made it impossible. The backlit blowing snow lost the light right after I finished the fourth exposure - all went flat with the sun behind the cloud bank. This image is four stitched together to make on 24 inch wide pixelograph.

So, I deal with inclement conditions by using whatever gear will do the job at the time.

As far as being hardy and all, we live in cold and it is relative. 40 below is cold no matter how much you are used to winter. Gets so a still day at zero(f) seems almost warm and 20 above brings out shirtsleeves.

Oh don't I know it. Driving around with the windows rolled down when it gets to 25 above...and lovin it. Springtime in North Dakota! :)

Racer X 69
22-Dec-2013, 13:05
Have to laugh as this is right on. Warm is relative and 25 above compared to 25 below....

50 degrees is a considerable spread. And 25 below is bitter cold. Add a light breeze and it feels even colder.

Michael Cienfuegos
23-Dec-2013, 09:59
If you watched the San Diego Chargers - Oakland Raiders game played in San Diego yesterday you would know how to deal with snow. (and we have been grumbling about the local cold weather. should be 70ºF today. :) )


m

AuditorOne
23-Dec-2013, 10:36
I absolutely LOVE snow! It is beautiful!

When it is up on the mountains around me!!

When I have to go out and shovel it I dislike it very strongly. :mad:

Except, of course, on Christmas Day. :D

Brassai
24-Dec-2013, 21:57
It's the shorter daylight hours that bother me the most. I end up with cabin fever from sitting in front of the computer too long and I think its obvious that I'm not the only one!



Early darkness is precisely what I like about winter. I don't have to be out at 2 AM to get some nice darkness to work with. My favorite two lenses were made before the 1860s and have no shutter, no aperture. They are easier to use when I can measure exposure in seconds. The uniform blanket of snow reflects a LOT of light. There's a lot more light out there than most people realize. If I need more, I have ~10,000ws of portable flash. At night, I also generally don't have to fool around with a dark cloth either. To keep warm I wear expeditionary clothing. I've been known to curl up in a snow drift and rest for an hour or two while waiting for a train to show up. The goose down suit I wear is like a sleeping bag with arms and legs. Goose down is the secret to staying warm when it's double digits below zero (F).

jp
4-Jan-2014, 19:17
I'm really liking this winter and our abundance of snow. Just picked up a 1997 ski-doo formula3 600 triple to get me more places than my feet can take me in the snow. I'll tow a sled with camera gear all sorts of places.
107708

StoneNYC
4-Jan-2014, 20:40
I'm really liking this winter and our abundance of snow. Just picked up a 1997 ski-doo formula3 600 triple to get me more places than my feet can take me in the snow. I'll tow a sled with camera gear all sorts of places.
107708

Was that taken at your place or the seller of the snow mobiles? Asking because, I might suggest that some money be put into that porch roof real soon ;)

Nice machine though.

csxcnj
4-Jan-2014, 21:45
Was that taken at your place or the seller of the snow mobiles? Asking because, I might suggest that some money be put into that porch roof real soon ;)

Nice machine though.

I'm guessing that's an abandoned house. Man, I wish we'd get some snow in DC. We had a couple inches and the locals carry on like we had a STORM! There are some school districts that have announced they'll be closed on Monday.:rolleyes:

StoneNYC
4-Jan-2014, 22:15
I'm guessing that's an abandoned house. Man, I wish we'd get some snow in DC. We had a couple inches and the locals carry on like we had a STORM! There are some school districts that have announced they'll be closed on Monday.:rolleyes:

Wow that's sad... Haha

Yea, but you never know, I didn't want to assume this poster could just be at his cabin, or that's his house and I didn't wants to be totally insulting. Not everyone is fortunate to have a relatively new place to live, nor does everyone want to, some are happy with less house and more film ;)

Heck some are happy just to have a roof and some firewood (and shoes).

Anyway I'm staring to learn this winter to just deal with the weather.

I am also learning why some don't like metal cameras, they way to easily attract humidify when cold and go into warmer climates, I have to wait like 6 hours after a shoot just to open my pelican case to take out my film holders because the darn camera gets all steamy just opening the lid.

But I like how sturdy it is, and how it easily locks to 0 marks without a fuss. But I do like the appeal of the Chaminix 45N-2 or 45F-1 heck it's so light I've considered the 57N-1 with 4x5 reducing back for landscapes that means a heck of a lot more bellows draw and still lighter than my current toyo45a (plus the ability to shoot 5x7 of course).

Anyway it's all a dream, right now I'm just focused on trying to be a good photographer who doesn't lose his camera to Mother Nature (or his fingers/toes to frostbite).

jp
5-Jan-2014, 05:34
That's my place.. It's an unused house on my property. My real house is behind it and you can see the peak near the cottage's chimney, and my garage is off to the right. I like old stuff; old cameras, old cars, old guns, but I lack appreciation for living in old houses!

I keep the old house around to photograph. eg.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/13759696@N02/11428259765/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/13759696@N02/8356646440/

Ivan J. Eberle
5-Jan-2014, 14:38
Photographically, and snowy landscapily, I shoot a Pentax 645N with a 35mm SMC-A manual focus lens. I can handhold to at least 1/8 sec and get critically sharp frames (not every frame, but enough of them) or use a Leki pole with a 1/4-20 thread under a knob for better support, when out XC skiing or snowshoeing.

Tripods in the snow kinda suck, as does blowing snow and film holders and laying stuff for LF out in the snow, breathing on a cold ground glass and frost forming, etc.

AuditorOne
8-Jan-2014, 21:06
I do enjoy my 645Nii as well but when out in the cold for long periods I actually prefer to pack a folding camera or my Rollei as there is no need to worry about batteries. Both my Billy Record III and my Rollei K4B seem to handle the cold quite well.

Racer X 69
9-Jan-2014, 19:32
I'm really liking this winter and our abundance of snow. Just picked up a 1997 ski-doo formula3 600 triple to get me more places than my feet can take me in the snow. I'll tow a sled with camera gear all sorts of places.
107708

Looks pretty nice for a 17 year old sled.