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John Cook
25-Aug-2004, 08:36
I used Heico fixer and Perma-Wash several years ago. Good stuff. Wondering if they make anything else for b&w photography.

But the B&H website shows no product data, such as dilution, capacity, shelf life, rinse times, etc. I sent an e-mail to the parent company, Rutherford, but haven’t heard a peep.

Anyone know of a website or printed literature source for these data?

Chris Ellinger
25-Aug-2004, 08:47
http://www.bkaphoto.com/technical_info.asp

Chris Ellinger
25-Aug-2004, 08:50
Oops...sorry, all they have is material safety info.

Gem Singer
25-Aug-2004, 08:55
Hi John,

Heico products are distributed in the USA by Brandess-Kalt-Aetna Group, inc.

They do not seem to have a website. Perhaps you can find their address, with a google search, and write to them requesting literature.

I still use Permawash. Good stuff. Even works as a sulfite bath for Polaroid Type 55 P/N film.

Gem Singer
25-Aug-2004, 09:39
Sorry John,

Brandess-Kalt-Aetna Group, Inc. website : www.bkaphoto.com. Chris posted that info while I was typing my response. I always get in trouble when I try to answer on this forum before I have my first cup of coffee in the morning. I'm going to take care of that situation right now.

John Cook
25-Aug-2004, 11:11
Thank-you Eugene and Chris. I hadn't tumbled to the fact that BKA was distributing Heico (this year). I did manage to glean a few tidbits from the BKA site. Spoze the best thing would be to order some from B&H and read the bottle label after the fact.

Eugene, my humble Massachusetts apologies for asking questions before you Westerners are awake ;0)

kthompson
25-Aug-2004, 12:13
Hey john-- What exactly do you need to know about NH-5 (heico's rapid fix) or Permawash? I have the tech sheets for the heico line in a lab manual.

John Cook
25-Aug-2004, 12:34
I was trying to figure out dilution for the fixer and for the hardener. Based upon Ilford data for their hardening fixer, I'm guessing that the 12-ounce hardener should be ordered with the gallon size of NH-5 concentrate, the 3-ounce with the quart. I haven't the courage to order the five gallon size. In those flimsy B&H cartons it would never survive UPS handling.

kthompson
25-Aug-2004, 12:55
that sounds about right. I'll dig out my lab notebook this evening & check it out, but NH5 is pretty much a direct clone of Kodak Rapid Fix A&B. You don't have to use the hardener at all. I use Kodak Rapid at work in our deeptank, and mix the hardener at half strength--I suppose some would argue you don't need it at all. fwiw, You won't need the 5 gallon sized unless you plan on doing alot of processing --we use it this size for our deeptank, and it takes a few months to put a dent in it--it makes like 20 gal of film fix and twice that of paper strength. We used to get Fix B in the 5 gal. size, but with hardener, a little bit goes a long way.

kthompson
25-Aug-2004, 12:57
btw--kodak rapid is 104 ml pt. B to a gallon working film fix (1:3). I use about 50-70 ml per gallon depending on the seasonal wash water temps.

Gem Singer
25-Aug-2004, 13:09
Apology accepted, John. Actually, I usually start my day around 8AM Eastern time. However, I 've been running late all day, today.

It's interesting that you, too, have been experiencing difficulties with B&H's UPS deliveries. The last few boxes I received from them were so badly damaged that the UPS guy was ashamed to deliver them. The contents was not damaged, however. It seems that B&H is now using plastic air bags, instead of plastic peanuts for their packing material. It's probably cost effective for them (and me), but it's a PITA. UPS piles the boxes high, and the plastic air bags can't support that much weight crushing down on them. I just ordered a large shipment of Ilford 8X10 film and 16X20 paper. If it arrives in the same condition as the last B&H shipment, it will be my last order from B&H.

I have never had a problem with a shipment that was packed with plastic peanuts, or delivered by Fedex. Just received one from Midwest this morning. It was just fine, even though it was extremely delicate stuff.

John Cook
25-Aug-2004, 13:42
Eugene, B&H has excellent service, very low prices and appear very honest. Needless to say, they have to cut somewhere in order to make a profit. And where they seem to skimp is by using verrrry cheeep cartons. Having learned my lesson, I now simply resist the urge to order too many heavy things at once, fearing they will put them all in the same box.

By the way, just got this e-mail back from Heico:

"Your e-mail has been forwarded to me for reply. Heico sold its black and white photo chemical line in 1994 to Brandess-Kalt Aetna located in Vernon Hill, Il. They have manufactured and marketed those products since that time and should be able to answer your questions. Please contact them at 800-621-5488."

Also, thanks to Mr. Thompson for the prompt reply. I have been searching for a hardening film fixer for Efke films which, as you are all aware, have a most delicate and sensitive emulsion. B&H stocks Ilford Hypam, but the hardener is a special order item.

kthompson
25-Aug-2004, 14:05
if you buy kodak rapid fix--you get the hardener (fix b) packed in with the quart and gallon sized concentrate. It's only a separate thing with the cubes, and then your options are limited to a half gallon jug and a 5 gal cube. We used to get it in the 5 gallon sized and it's like overkill....it'll last forever.

kthompson
26-Aug-2004, 15:22
alright, I found the booklet. It has the whole product line circa 1992. It's about a dozen pages long or so...the stuff for NH-5 is very similar to Kodak Rapid Fix. Diluted 1:3 for film strength with 0-3 oz. hardener. For paper strength, the dilution is 1:7 with 0-1.5 oz hardener. Just like Kodak--mix the pt A first, and then while stirring--slowly--add the hardener (and enjoy the lovely aroma of rapid fix, aaah)

capacity is 120 8x10 equivalent for film. 100 8x10 fiber base and 200 8x10 rc for paper strength. Shelf life is 1 yr. for the concentrate pt A., the hardener is indefinite. working solution is a week in a tray and roughly a month in a tank w/floating lid. Pretty standard stuff--they say it's compared to Kodak Rapid, Ilfospeed Fixer and Universal Fixer from Ilford, or Edwal Quick Fix and Hi-Speed Fix.

Interesting--on the back page they say they offer(ed) an "Archival Kit" that sounded like a sample pack of the entire line. Oh well--like I said, if you want a copy and you live in the US (so postage won't kill me)--send me a note. I have the same booklets for Ethol and Accufine/Diafine as well a slew of kodak, ilford, agfa,oriental etc. I got the ones for heico, ethol & accufine from BKA long time ago.

btw--I use permawash all the time in our tankline. it's always been 3 oz to the gallon. I generally use it pretty much like hypo clear--in that I do a 2 minute step, instead of the 30-60 sec they recommend. I do a prewash of 5 min., then 2 min in the p.w. tank and then back to the wash tank for 10 min. I know this is longer than they suggest, but the tank is large and it's hard to get frequent changes of water in a tank that's several gallons. For small tank processing, you can probably cut the times down to what is listed on the spec sheets, but when I use it at home, I usually go for a similar length of time because old habits are hard to break... everything you need to know about it is on the bottle though,

hope this helps.

John Cook
26-Aug-2004, 18:06
Thank-you d.k. That was what I wanted to know. It seems you are almost as much a repository of old photo trivia as I am. We should get together sometime and see who can put the other to sleep first. ;0)

Speaking of Perma-Wash, I read somewhere that it was formulated at the request of the US Government during WWII for use on aerial surveillance film which could not be adequately washed in the field. Something about lab techs wading waist-deep into the South Pacific and dunking stainless reels in the seawater. Who knew?