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View Full Version : any users around of longer Ernemann Ernostar lenses?



Misko
25-Nov-2013, 18:23
Hello,

I am looking for info about Ernemann Eronstar lenses that are 18cm / 180mm / 7" or longer. As I have heard there are lenses up to 25cm / 10" with -stop 2.7 and I am interested to know if anyone has used those and what are the experiences.

I have since recently 18cm version & I am totally in love with it but I would love to acquire a longer one (22cm or 25cm) for usage with my modified Graflex RB Series D 4x5 camera and would love to hear more about them. Info about these lenses on the net is unfortunately non-existent and I don't own any book or printed source dealing with them.

Looking forward to hear your experiences.

Kind regards,
Misko

Randy
26-Nov-2013, 15:44
Misko, I would be curious if a large lens of that aperture would even fit the small lensboard of the Graflex. I am guessing the lens diameter will be to large...just a guess. Let us know if you find any information. I have the same camera.

Steven Tribe
27-Nov-2013, 02:31
I have always assumed that the Ernostar was designed for the Erneman camera and not made in lengths that suited other (larger) cameras. The apparent absence of an on-line catalogue would also suggest this is the case.

Misko
27-Nov-2013, 02:52
I have seen 22cm lens and it seems to fit Speed's plate.

18cm fits if 100% since it's rear element is slightly more narrow than Aero Ektar.

I believe that both 22cm & 25cm lenses should cover 8x10 without any problem since 18cm covers 4x5 with place for movements...

Misko
27-Nov-2013, 02:54
an example of 18cm Ernostar's image:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/milosgazdic/10414764645/

IanG
27-Nov-2013, 03:12
There was a Ernemann Folding Reflex that took 9x12 or Quarter plate that came with an 18cm f4.5 Tessar there was sufficient extension to allow 1:1 copying. (1924 BJP Almanac Ernemann Advert). Folded it looks a bit like a Speed Graphic but in use it has a double bellows system so could take a 25cm lens.

I'll see what's in other BJPA's later today. I'd guess Ernemann designed/made faster Ernostar lenses for the same camera before they merged with Zeiss.

Ian

IanG
27-Nov-2013, 07:54
I've checked later BJPA's and the same 9x12 Folding reflex cameras with focal pane shutters were sold in the UK with the 180mm Tessar and later also an f4.5 Ernostar or f3.5 Ernon Anastigmat (1927 & 8). Ernemann had been totally absorbed into Zeiss Ikon by 1931 and the names disappear.

However these adverts aren't full catalogues, there was an f1.8 Ernostar listed in the 1927 BJPA for the non reflex 9x12 plate cameras (focal plane shutter), this was a 16.5cm.

The huge problem is Ernemann only began making these newer fast lens and cameras around 1923/4 and by 1927/8 had merged into Zeiss Ikon who rationalised camera and lens production. Coverage of these lenses wouldn't be great, image circles would be much wider than useable area.

You'd need to scour German publications for details of their lenses, good luck.

Ian

Jason Greenberg Motamedi
27-Nov-2013, 07:57
I don't know about the f2.7 Ernostars, but a few 24cm f1.8 Ernostar lenses were made for 13x18. I stupidly passed one up years ago.

Misko
27-Nov-2013, 21:31
Hello Ian, thanks a million for all the source checking and detailed informations.

Do you happen to have the image showing that Ernemann Folding Reflex camera of Quarter plate size? Would love to see it.

I have seen the examples of the 165mm shots on Flickr by a bulgarian photographer named "Яado". Lens seems to perform amazingly and covers more than 4x5 according to the photographer & I believe for portrait photography it is not an issue if the image circle is much wider than really useable area, isn't it right?

I wish I knew how to post Flickr shots to the threads here but here is again link to my photo showing longish shot made with 18cm model:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/milosgazdic/10203758323/

Finally - do you have any proposal regarding some publication about German lenses? I would gladly hunt it down…

And dear Jason - was the price for that 24cm f1.8 lens ok? Wish I had a chance at least to try it!!!

IanG
28-Nov-2013, 07:03
I meant to post the 1924 advert in my last reply and forgot it :D here you are:

105540

It's shown much smaller in the Zeiss Ikon adverts.

Ian

Misko
28-Nov-2013, 08:33
Wow. This sounds like super cool camera based on the description. I am wondering why there are not many more of them around? Did anyone see any of them in real life? 9x12 could probably be easily converted to 4x5 (just like I did to my Mentor 9x12 with RB) and shutter has as wide range of expositions like Graflex...

IanG
28-Nov-2013, 17:16
The 1923-27 time frame was one of severe depression in Germany and the camera trade particularly with many shot lived companies and then amalgamations. It was also a time when Britain and America had their own prosperous manufacturers so there was a lot of competition. Until Leica emerged with 35mm cameras as a new way forward Ernemann had cornered the market for small portable cameras with ultra fast lenses.

Putting it perspective some cameras of that era were made for 20 or even 30 years (with minor changes) but the fast Ernemann lenses and cameras were short lived because of the merger into Zeiss Ikon and the switch in Europe to 35mm.

Ian

Misko
28-Nov-2013, 18:41
Such a pity for all of us, isn't it? :)

Anyway - I am still looking for any pointers of usage of 220mm, 240mm & 250mm Ernostars. All the info, contacts… are welcome. Thank you.

Misko
23-Jun-2014, 09:04
still looking :)

Pete Roody
23-Jun-2014, 09:56
Such a pity for all of us, isn't it? :)

Anyway - I am still looking for any pointers of usage of 220mm, 240mm & 250mm Ernostars. All the info, contacts… are welcome. Thank you.

More than 5 years ago (I can't remember when) I saw a 250mm f1.9 (or f1.8?) Ernostar for sale. The guy was from Eastern Europe and was asking $5k. The lens sold but I don't know for how much. He had photos of it so it does exist.

goamules
23-Jun-2014, 10:02
Like a lot of rare items, it can take years to find one, and requires diligent, constant searching. When you find one, you must quickly pay the asking price, because you may not see another for 5 years. That's how I get my rare stuff anyway! Of course, if the price is too high (rarity does not equate high prices - demand does), I pass.

Jason Greenberg Motamedi
23-Jun-2014, 13:34
... The lens sold but I don't know for how much. He had photos of it so it does exist....

http://rafcamera.com/en/still-image-cameras/lenses/unique-zeiss-ernostar-lens-1-8-24cm

Pete Roody
23-Jun-2014, 17:50
http://rafcamera.com/en/still-image-cameras/lenses/unique-zeiss-ernostar-lens-1-8-24cm

That's the one!

xatnoc
6-Mar-2015, 21:13
Guys: I have a 1.8/165mm lens in my collection. It belongs to a Ermanox 9x12 body that is also part of my collection. A heavy lens!! Any interest for you to post a picture?

IanG
7-Mar-2015, 06:22
Pictures would be interesting, have you actually used the lens - pictures taken with it would be even more interesting.

Ian

Misko
8-Mar-2015, 04:40
Hello Xatnoc! I would second Ian's comment & say - it would be great to see the images taken with the lens.
I've seen few of them taken by a "virtual friend" and co-member here on his Flickr account... he has 2 of them: 125mm and 165mm if I remember right... and all the images he posted looked stunning.
On the other hand I would love to know a bit more about Ernostars that are longer than 18cm!

jkay777
3-Sep-2015, 02:46
Hello Xatnoc! I would second Ian's comment & say - it would be great to see the images taken with the lens.
I've seen few of them taken by a "virtual friend" and co-member here on his Flickr account... he has 2 of them: 125mm and 165mm if I remember right... and all the images he posted looked stunning.
On the other hand I would love to know a bit more about Ernostars that are longer than 18cm!

I own and use the 165mm f1.8 and it is indeed a stunning performer and equal it's reputation. I ultimately mounted it on a 4x5 speed graphic and rangefinder coupled it although I only use it via gg focusing because of the shallow depth of field near wide open. I tried valiantly to mount it n a Graflex SLR, but it was too big for the 3x4 and to short (hit the mirror) for 4x5.

Misko
3-Sep-2015, 20:04
Glad to hear that there is one more happy user of Ernostars.
I wish I could try faster version than my 180mm is, like your 165mm 1.8!
Do you have any examples of the shots shot with it to share Jkay777?

jbognacki
8-Jun-2016, 15:59
I own and use the 165mm f1.8 and it is indeed a stunning performer and equal it's reputation. I ultimately mounted it on a 4x5 speed graphic and rangefinder coupled it although I only use it via gg focusing because of the shallow depth of field near wide open. I tried valiantly to mount it n a Graflex SLR, but it was too big for the 3x4 and to short (hit the mirror) for 4x5.

Any example images of the lens or images take with it you can share?

jkay777
8-Jun-2016, 17:44
Any example images of the lens or images take with it you can share?
As per your request, a portrait taken with the 165mm f1.8 Ernomann
151613

jbognacki
8-Jun-2016, 21:16
As per your request, a portrait taken with the 165mm f1.8 Ernomann
151613

Very nice image. Was this shot wide open? 4x5?

seven
9-Jun-2016, 01:05
it's Ernostar, not Ernomann ;)

here you go : https://www.flickr.com/search/?user_id=25515421%40N02&sort=date-taken-desc&text=ernostar&view_all=1

Misko
9-Jun-2016, 05:15
Few of them should be on my Flickr too. (On a holiday in HongKong so unable to search them now :( Sorry)

jkay777
9-Jun-2016, 18:33
4x5 Kodak 160 film shot wide open.

jbognacki
10-Jun-2016, 10:37
Thanks for the images, links, and info. Anyone interested in selling their copy? :)

Misko
10-Jun-2017, 15:33
Thanks for the images, links, and info. Anyone interested in selling their copy? :)

Carl Zeiss Jena Ernostar 1.8/24cm just sold on an auction for 7800 + 20% auction fee. I just didn't have enough money to go for it, although this is probably the N1 lens I am dreaming about.

From some discussion & reading I have done it seems these lenses were used in observatories for astro-graphies.

Best,
Milos

jkay777
11-Jun-2017, 05:32
Carl Zeiss Jena Ernostar 1.8/24cm just sold on an auction for 7800 + 20% auction fee. I just didn't have enough money to go for it, although this is probably the N1 lens I am dreaming about.

From some discussion & reading I have done it seems these lenses were used in observatories for astro-graphies.

Best,
Milos

If you don't mind, which auction had that sale? Price of course is expensive, but considering how much
popularity there is for speed lenses not surprising considering how rare a 240mm f1.8 is. Knowing how large
my 165 is, I assume the only reflex camera the 240 would work on would be a 5x7 Home Portrait Graflex.

Steven Tribe
11-Jun-2017, 05:53
Probably the Westlicht auction yeserday. IT may be easier to access through the bidding website Live auctioners.

Misko
11-Jun-2017, 07:45
If you don't mind, which auction had that sale?

Hello
It was Westlicht or something like that. I was standing away from it being afraid I could bid on it and I am not really in great situation to do it currently since I need to upgrade one of my Phase one lenses & buy 35mm lens for it too extra... :) And these bring money no matter how much I drool over Ernostars.

And true - Home portrait would be a perfect match for such lens!! I have one of them waiting for a dedicated lens :)

Jason Greenberg Motamedi
11-Jun-2017, 12:02
http://www.westlicht-auction.com/index.php?id=4&L=1

In "lenses"

Misko
25-Sep-2017, 01:58
Do we know by now who has purchased the lens and if the lens was tested?
I would love to see some examples shot with it.
Best
Milos

Misko
2-Oct-2017, 11:08
Here I am, raising this topic from the dead...
Hope you don't mind guys?

I was just checking Ernemann's Anastigmats & all I can find are:

1) (our beloved) Ernostar (f1.8, f2.0, f2.7)

2) Ernotar (usually f4.5)

3) Ernon (f3.3 - f3.5)

4) Ernar (predating Ernostar for few years but obviously was more a "brand name" than a lens design defined by name) and then (f6.3 & f6.8)

5) Doppel Anastigmat called "Vilar" which seems to come from same years like Ernar and can be equally slow (f6.8)

We all know that Erneman & later Zeiss made projection Ernostars which were available in a few focal lengths but all I found are shorter ones up to 125mm or so. Then on the other hand there are Ernemann Anastigmats without any "brand name" which are also projection lenses without aperture and all but come in longer focal lengths while still keeping the speed of an Ernsotar.
So I wonder from your experience & knowledge - would a company like Ernemann make such lenses based on their best lens (Ernostar) and omit the name & aperture but keep the identical formula?