How do I make a photograph of the sun?

[John Kasaian]

Alright, I'm working on a series of elemental photographs...a self assignment kind of a thing...and I need a dramatic photograph of the sun. I'm thinking either rising or setting among clouds and/or mountain peaks(rays of sunlight perhaps?) The series is in B&W (as an added challenge)and I've been trying to think of how to figure the exposure and filteration. I realized the light will be changing quickly if I'm working with clouds and I'll need a fast shutter speed(I think) to "freeze" movement. My problem is I just don't know where to start experimenting. Would a fast or slow speed film be better suited to what I want to do? Could I use a #8 or #16 filter or should I get a ND since the sun is the subject? How do I focus on the gg without toasting my retinas(or do I shoot at infinity?) What about minimizing flare---I doubt a conventional shade would help since I'll be probably be shooting into the sunlight. Does anyone have any suggestions, thoughts or experience in this kind of stuff? Can you recommend a good book that would cover this issue? Where do I start (if I'm fortunate enought to observe my desired meteorological conditions?) Thanks!

[Jim Rice]

The longer lens the better, I would think. I don't think your eyes are in danger, unless a short lens projects a point source on your ground glass and the temperature differential cracks it. As for doing it well, I have no idea.

[Peter Galea]

I think your eyes are in danger. Get welders glass or exposed/developed film. You're a photographer, don't take chances with your vision.

[Peter Galea]

Just found
this. (http://joecali.members.easyspace.com/html_f/articleshtml/sunmoonphotography.html)

[Ralph Barker]

I would agree that even at sunrise or sunset, focusing on the sun on the GG puts your eyes at risk, John. You can focus on "infinity" elsewhere (away from the sun), and then rotate the camera into position, using welder's goggles or a solar filter to guess at final composition. You could also use just a piece of matte board to obscure the sun area on the GG, positioning it in the right place while observing the GG from the side. But, that's kind of risky.

Exposure-wise, I think that depends on the effect you want. Obviously, if you expose for the sun itself, everything else will be esssentially black. Multiple, layered grad NDs might be an option to consider, depending on how close the sun is to the horizon when you expose, and what the terrain looks like.

I have a solar filter for my Celestron telescope that allows you to view sun spots with the telescope. If you're close to San Jose, and want to tinker with it, give me a shout. It essentially renders the sun as a white disk of moderate intensity, so the spots stand out.

[David R Munson]

If you can swing the cost, I would say invest in a solar filter. You could use it for your project and then sell it afterwards and make back most of initial cost.

Something in my memory tells me that, essentially, for every 100mm of focal length, you end up with 1mm of diameter of sun or moon on your film. This makes the prospect of getting the sun big on sheet film pretty difficult unless you manage to rig up some kind of LF supertelephoto or can get access to a massive telescope.

And for Pete's sake - don't look right at the sun, even if it is just on your ground glass!

[Ole Tjugen]

Focus on infinity, then swing camera towards sun.

I used AGFA APX 100 at f:8, 1 second (!), with a Lee IR filter in place. Developed in Maxim Muir's comp Pyrocat, I got details in foreground as well as sunspots in a partial solar eclipse...

[Matthew Hoag]

John: I had an unsuccessful attempt (flare), at shooting directly at the sun while it was about 10 desgrees above the horizon, but one hint I can suggest is that when I stopped way down to f128 there were no issues with looking at the GG, I could focus as well with no problem but did not use (nor need) a loupe. Good luck. I'd like to hear of any others suggestions re John's original question on flare. As far as exposure goes, I metered for the shadows and gave three extra stops exposure and developed by inspection which ended up at about 50% of what would be considered N time.

Cheers.

Matthew

[Steve Gangi]

Take a look first at the Mr. Eclipse website. It has all the information you will need. Assuming you want a "close-up" shot with a long lens. The first thing to consider is, you are going to focus the light and heat of a nearby star, through a lens, onto a ground glass or viewing screen. That's a lot of light and a lot of heat. You will want a strong filter on the front of your lens, to severely cut down on it. I use a Thousand Oaks solar filter, specifically designed for this. If you want to try using a piece of film as a filter, use black and white film. Grossly and completely over expose it. Then overdevelop it. You want it BLACK. If you are going for more of a scenic shot, where the sun is not so enlarged, then you may get by with a strong graduated neutral density filter, but again, that one spot where the sun is will "want" to get very bright and very hot. Be careful. Focus on infinity, set your exposure, and then swing through and frame quickly.

[Kirk Keyes]

I've done this - I found that by placing an ND filter over the lens, you can shoot the sun directly and get an image of the disk of the sun. Here's the trick - you need to use a lot of ND filtration. I found that 5.0 ND will bring the light level down to where you can use the Sunny 16 rule for exposure.

With 5.0 ND, you will not be able to see anything but the sun on the ground glass, so you will have to do all the framing of the photo and the focussing before you place the filter on the front of the lens.

Don't worry about burning your eyes with the sun in the frame - the image of the sun is focussed on the ground glass - not your eyes. How many sunset photos have you shot and not worried about the disk of the sun being in the frame - it's no different here.

However, I would not recommend looking at the image of the sun through a focussing loupe, just to avoid any possible risk.

If you want to have both an image of the disk of the sun AND a landscape subject on the same piece of film, you will need to do a double exposure - take one before sunrise/after sunset for the landscape, and then take one with the 5.0 ND filter over the front of the lens for the disk ove the sun.

[paulr]

there are filters available for telescopes that are designed specifically for this. maybe try a scientific supply or astronomy website? the trouble with homebrew solutions like welder's glass or exposed film is that you have no idea how much of the intense UV and other radiation is being filtered out. people have been known to hurt themselves (delayed onset injuries, like sunburned corneas, etc ... aslo called snowblindness, which is supposedly painful enough to get people to beg for death).

[Jim Galli]

John, I know you're.....OK, delicately, "thrifty" like myself. For a cheap solar filter try the foil your pop tarts are in. Don't even try to tell me you don't eat pop tarts. Photographer's breakfast of champions. 8>() Jim

[John Kasaian]

Thanks for all the ideas! WOW. I scoped out the websites and the sun photos I saw were inspiring. Do I take a reflected photo from a telescope(I have a wal-mart refractor) or take it straight on through the clouds using an aerial camera? I guess it will depend on what the circumstances are but I'm kind of leaning toward using the metal Gowland as it's already focus for infintiy and not as flammable as the 'dorff if I take it straight on. LOL Jim---Pop Tarts??? I wonder if the fillling they use on the chocolate ones are formulated from ersatz Rodinal?;-) What a great forum with all this expertese available. Thank you all!

[Steve Gangi]

I use a 4.5 inch (114mm)Newtonian relfector. A refractor works fine too. For this, a small camera (35mm or digital) is best. I mount the camera right at the focuser, where the eyepiece goes. This gives me a 900mm f8 lens. The adapter lets me insert an eyepiece between the scope and the camera, but then with that much magnification, vibration becomes a major issue, and just getting the sun into the frame becomes tricky. Here's some simple math, based on my system. Just as an example: Camera + scope = 900mm lens

Camera + scope + 30mm eyepiece: Magnification = 900mm scope / 30mm eyepiece = 30 (equivalent to 1500mm lens on 35mm camera)

I mounted the filter at the open end of the scope, the end that faces the sun. I meter with the camera. Of course this way, I can ignore all those charts you probably saw. Then I bracket anyway. For your refractor, take the focal length and divide it by the rated aperture. It can be inches or millimeters, so long as you are consistent. This yields the f-stop of your scope.