Storing new and shot LF/ULF film flat or upright

[Tin Can]

I wonder what you all think about storing new LF/ULF film in unopened boxes. Is it prefered to store flat or on edge? If flat, how many boxes high before it becomes a problem.

Coming from 35mm I stored all exposed and developed negafiles flat in 3" boxes. Never a problem. 35mm fresh film does not seem to care which way is up.

Large Format film, and especially ULF is heavy. I can see problems occurring either flat or on edge.

And how about ULF developed negative storage? Glassine?

Found this link about print storage.

http://www.archives.gov/preservation/family-archives/storing-photos.html

[Tin Can]

Of course I find this from Vinny's post right after I post.

http://motion.kodak.com/motion/uploadedFiles/US_plugins_acrobat_en_motion_newsletters_filmEss_12_Storage_and_Handling.pdf

[Jim Noel]

store it flat unless you like your film to take on a permanent curvature over time.

[StoneNYC]

store it flat unless you like your film to take on a permanent curvature over time.

I would assume that it's fine in the holders though correct? Just in the storage boxes that it needs to be flat?

[Oren Grad]

And how about ULF developed negative storage? Glassine?

You have to be careful with glassine - much of the product supplied under that name is not acid-free. I use polypropylene sleeves, just as with smaller negatives - they're available in a very wide range of sizes.

[Daniel Stone]

Hanging files would work if you have negative sleeves or the hangers to hold said sized film.

Just a thought. Many are adjustable.
Otherwise, I'd just store flat in boxes

[Tin Can]

What I mean is if you are stocking lots of film, like 20 boxes or more, is there a height limit to stacking film?

Will the sheer weight of big boxes of film and paper start to make the bottom boxes of film start sticking individual films together over the long run?

We hoarders have to have think about this!

[AtlantaTerry]

I would assume that it's fine in the holders though correct? Just in the storage boxes that it needs to be flat?

I have the same question. I may load a bunch of 4x5 sheet film holders then place them in one of my camera cases where they are standing on end for weeks or months at a time. Should I be concerned about the film developing a curve or sag in the middle?

[Jim Noel]

Weeks of storage in holders is no problem other than the film might get chemically fogged or otherwise lose some sensitivity. I assumed the question was about long term storage. I store all film flat in boxes. If new, they are usually stacked about 5-6 boxes high because that is the distance between my shelves. Processed film is placed in mylar sleeves and stored in acid free boxes designed for the purpose. These boxes are thicker so I can only stack them 3 high in my shelves.

With reference to glassine sleeves. In the late 70's I was allowed to view several of Edward Weston's negatives by Cole. These were stored in glassine envelopes with hand written printing notes on them. There was no apparent damage.

[StoneNYC]

Weeks of storage in holders is no problem other than the film might get chemically fogged or otherwise lose some sensitivity. I assumed the question was about long term storage. I store all film flat in boxes. If new, they are usually stacked about 5-6 boxes high because that is the distance between my shelves. Processed film is placed in mylar sleeves and stored in acid free boxes designed for the purpose. These boxes are thicker so I can only stack them 3 high in my shelves.

With reference to glassine sleeves. In the late 70's I was allowed to view several of Edward Weston's negatives by Cole. These were stored in glassine envelopes with hand written printing notes on them. There was no apparent damage.

Wait why would film in holders be chemically fogged and loose speed?

[Jim Andrada]

It's a little known fact that film holders contain residual radioactivity from the manufacturing process. The interesting thing about this form of radioactivity is that it only affects your greatest shots between the time you see the perfect image on the ground glass and the time you develop them. It makes great compositions look like they were composed by a drunken idiot and your spotless film develop a case of the measles. Selective radiation damage I think they call it. Mediocre or worse shots have no problem but your best shots are highly susceptible.

Back to reality - I think the problem is that all holders are not perfectly light tight and over a long period of time even an otherwise insignificant amount of light leakage can cause problems.

[C. D. Keth]

If I shot the very big formats, I'd get myself one of these:

105554

It's a printmakers cabinet. Many of them have the drawers sectioned off for holding sets of letters for typeset printing. I've seen others, though, that have no dividers in the drawers for holding paper and matteboard. My grandfather has one like that.

[Daniel Stone]

Randy,
You can also get drafting flat files, however be prepared to 1. dumpster-dive, or 2. pay through the nose for a nice clean(sometimes even the ratty-looking ones) set from a reseller(probably someone who fished them out themselves of a dumpster).
Very sturdy, and I've seen some wonderfully made ones that are probably close to 75yrs old.
Usually, they're heavy as sh**, but do the job well.

-Dan

[Tin Can]

I have flat files, but that is ambient storage, I am also thinking how to maximize cold storage space, either 36 degrees F or 0 degrees F. Most refrigerators and freezers are not optimal for flat storage. especially ULF film.

[Daniel Stone]

Commercial refrigerators ARE designed for massive storage. They cone in all shapes and sizes, and every major market has at least 2-3 purveyors of used(and clean) commercial restaurant equipment.

Google is your friend in this case :)

[Tin Can]

That's out of my league and space. I use consumer grade for most things. I am retired on a fixed income.

Everything I own and use must fit fit in 750 square feet.

That's darkroom, shooting room, bath, kitchen and bed. My bed is built into my 24 feet of commercial storage racks! I have bicycles hanging from the ceiling.

I have 3 small consumer refrigerators running now, but ULF film does not fit very well. How many pizza boxes fit in normal fridges? Not many, and I have a 90 degree entry, a commercial fridge would have to be built in place. Even my motorcycle is specially modified so I can ride it inside the 2 90 degree doors. This place is tight.

Maybe an upright freezer is on the agenda, maybe, maybe right after I get this Studio Deardorff squared away. lol


Commercial refrigerators ARE designed for massive storage. They cone in all shapes and sizes, and every major market has at least 2-3 purveyors of used(and clean) commercial restaurant equipment.

Google is your friend in this case :)

[StoneNYC]

That's out of my league and space. I use consumer grade for most things. I am retired on a fixed income.

Everything I own and use must fit fit in 750 square feet.

That's darkroom, shooting room, bath, kitchen and bed. My bed is built into my 24 feet of commercial storage racks! I have bicycles hanging from the ceiling.

I have 3 small consumer refrigerators running now, but ULF film does not fit very well. How many pizza boxes fit in normal fridges? Not many, and I have a 90 degree entry, a commercial fridge would have to be built in place. Even my motorcycle is specially modified so I can ride it inside the 2 90 degree doors. This place is tight.

Maybe an upright freezer is on the agenda, maybe, maybe right after I get this Studio Deardorff squared away. lol

Just because I've had too much turkey, I gotta say, sounds like you could save a lot of space and money if you shot digital... HAH!!!

Sorry couldn't help myself :)

Keep fighting the good fight.

[Tin Can]

I quit digital, well not entirely, but I really prefer wet work and I am not a spy.

At my age and health, I plan to please myself only, until...





Just because I've had too much turkey, I gotta say, sounds like you could save a lot of space and money if you shot digital... HAH!!!

Sorry couldn't help myself :)

Keep fighting the good fight.

[StoneNYC]

I quit digital, well not entirely, but I really prefer wet work and I am not a spy.

At my age and health, I plan to please myself only, until...

How old are you anwyay? You talk like you're 95...

[Tin Can]

I am a very unhealthy 63, I am surprised everyday I wake up.

I have led a rough and tumble life, with most friends gone. 3 dead girlfriends, one dead ex-wife and the other ex-wife can't be good for much longer.

Rockers die young.


How old are you anwyay? You talk like you're 95...

[StoneNYC]

I am a very unhealthy 63, I am surprised everyday I wake up.

I have led a rough and tumble life, with most friends gone. 3 dead girlfriends, one dead ex-wife and the other ex-wife can't be good for much longer.

Rockers die young.

Wow, well, sorry to hear, I guess... Better to burn out than fade away? Is that the rocker saying?

Hope you have some good come up and keep shooting film (and leave me some gadgets and LF film would you? ) lol.

[I have a very dry humor, it doesn't come across positively with some people, but I hope you got the fun in that statement and were not offended].

[Michael Cienfuegos]

I am a very unhealthy 63, I am surprised everyday I wake up.

I have led a rough and tumble life, with most friends gone. 3 dead girlfriends, one dead ex-wife and the other ex-wife can't be good for much longer.

Rockers die young.

A lot of hard miles, huh? Maybe you should give up rock for Bach, or some such. I'm 70, retired, my main problem is Type II Diabetes brought on by an overactive fork. :( I'm just now recovering from a bout with cellulitis in my lower left leg. Antibiotics work, thank God.

It looks as if you have too small a house. You need a place with a basement. My son has a pretty much unused basement, I told him he should build a darkroom, but I doubt that he will. I gave him a couple of my film cameras, a Nikon N80 and a Mamiya C330. He likes the Mamiya, but has been sending me the film to develop. I told him he need to find someone to show him how to DIY. He lives in Chicago.

[polyglot]

Wait why would film in holders be chemically fogged and loose speed?

Some gases negatively affect film, particularly things containing sulfur. If you live near a highway with lots of diesel traffic or some other industrial source of problematic gases (brown-coal electricity generation?), films in holders would theoretically be more affected than films nicely sealed away in plastic bags in triple boxes. Felt light-traps aren't gas traps. Keeping holders in ziploc bags will help (and with dust!) but I tend to get lots of holes in mine.

[Tin Can]

Shit, I had forgot about the celulitus, I had several bad bouts with that 4 years ago. Bad juju. Dangerous. I have reformed and I AM listening to Bach right now. Not kidding. I drink maybe one beer a day for medicinal purposes, I have not done anything illegal in 25 years at least, and never anything more than smoke.

I eat good and lost weight, some damn experimental meds made me a balloon for about 10 years and now I have lost 50 lbs in 3 years to 170, normal weight. I feel good but my ticker is crap, I have PAD, osteoarthritis, I keep a wheelchair handy. I don't look or feel sick. I take one heart pill a day, My old biker buddy is a Homeopathic MD and got me off stupid mainstream meds, off booze, off bad food. I'm way better than 10 years ago...I can actually walk now!

I no longer have a death cough from the rubber factory and smoky bars.

Life is good, but short. I have so many dead friends I lost track and that was when I was 21.

I hate going to sleep.

As for your son, usually people who are given cameras, especially film cameras, do not use them. ymmv



A lot of hard miles, huh? Maybe you should give up rock for Bach, or some such. I'm 70, retired, my main problem is Type II Diabetes brought on by an overactive fork. :( I'm just now recovering from a bout with cellulitis in my lower left leg. Antibiotics work, thank God.

It looks as if you have too small a house. You need a place with a basement. My son has a pretty much unused basement, I told him he should build a darkroom, but I doubt that he will. I gave him a couple of my film cameras, a Nikon N80 and a Mamiya C330. He likes the Mamiya, but has been sending me the film to develop. I told him he need to find someone to show him how to DIY. He lives in Chicago.

[StoneNYC]

Shit, I had forgot about the celulitus, I had several bad bouts with that 4 years ago. Bad juju. Dangerous. I have reformed and I AM listening to Bach right now. Not kidding. I drink maybe one beer a day for medicinal purposes, I have not done anything illegal in 25 years at least, and never anything more than smoke.

I eat good and lost weight, some damn experimental meds made me a balloon for about 10 years and now I have lost 50 lbs in 3 years to 170, normal weight. I feel good but my ticker is crap, I have PAD, osteoarthritis, I keep a wheelchair handy. I don't look or feel sick. I take one heart pill a day, My old biker buddy is a Homeopathic MD and got me off stupid mainstream meds, off booze, off bad food. I'm way better than 10 years ago...I can actually walk now!

I no longer have a death cough from the rubber factory and smoky bars.

Life is good, but short. I have so many dead friends I lost track and that was when I was 21.

I hate going to sleep.

As for your son, usually people who are given cameras, especially film cameras, do not use them. ymmv

Not sure I would want to go to a meet up with you now... You might stab me for my camera in a shady alleyway and ride off on your hog LOL :)

Glad you can walk again, that's important.

[StoneNYC]

Some gases negatively affect film, particularly things containing sulfur. If you live near a highway with lots of diesel traffic or some other industrial source of problematic gases (brown-coal electricity generation?), films in holders would theoretically be more affected than films nicely sealed away in plastic bags in triple boxes. Felt light-traps aren't gas traps. Keeping holders in ziploc bags will help (and with dust!) but I tend to get lots of holes in mine.

I keep everything in pelican cases... Or the fridge... Even my bulk loaders are in food safe zip lock bags for dust prevention... :)

[Tin Can]

Sold the Hog, my hands couldn't stand the vibration, now I got a nice little Honda. It's not the bike, it's the ride and I always ride alone.

Stabbing is East coast, we just shoot em.

btw, Even when I couldn't walk, I would ride with crutches.



Not sure I would want to go to a meet up with you now... You might stab me for my camera in a shady alleyway and ride off on your hog LOL :)

Glad you can walk again, that's important.

[Tin Can]

I use a lot of Costco Zip locks, good for holders, they also have great plastic boxes for bellows and such.


I keep everything in pelican cases... Or the fridge... Even my bulk loaders are in food safe zip lock bags for dust prevention... :)

[Michael Cienfuegos]

Shit, I had forgot about the celulitus, I had several bad bouts with that 4 years ago. Bad juju. Dangerous. I have reformed and I AM listening to Bach right now. Not kidding. I drink maybe one beer a day for medicinal purposes, I have not done anything illegal in 25 years at least, and never anything more than smoke.

I eat good and lost weight, some damn experimental meds made me a balloon for about 10 years and now I have lost 50 lbs in 3 years to 170, normal weight. I feel good but my ticker is crap, I have PAD, osteoarthritis, I keep a wheelchair handy. I don't look or feel sick. I take one heart pill a day, My old biker buddy is a Homeopathic MD and got me off stupid mainstream meds, off booze, off bad food. I'm way better than 10 years ago...I can actually walk now!

I no longer have a death cough from the rubber factory and smoky bars.

Life is good, but short. I have so many dead friends I lost track and that was when I was 21.

I hate going to sleep.

As for your son, usually people who are given cameras, especially film cameras, do not use them. ymmv

My kid LOVES the Mamiya, though he does complain about the weight. Gotta admit, it is nowhere as light as the Rollei, but a lot cheaper. I have an old Rollei Automat, 1939 model which still works quite well. Shutter speeds a little off, but it does me well. My Mamiya C33 is heavy enough, but I have a 135mm lens on it to make it that much heavier. I just don't use it as much, I would rather lug my Speed. Junior has a lot of fun with his cameras, He does like the D80 I gave him, but still prefers the look and feel of the film. Makes me feel good. :)

Sorry about your crappy health. When I was working in a nursing home I had one old timer whom I would greet in the early AM with a cheerful "Happy Monday" no matter which day of the week it was. He would grumpily correct me on the correct day then ask what was so happy about it. I would respond that it is better to look down at the flower blooms than up at the roots. He had to agree. My big problem is that I am only 5'6" in height and weigh 240# :( Blood sugars are pretty much under control, cellulitis is about gone and I really don't drink that much. I like Bombay Sapphire martinis and good wine. I limit myself to one martini every once in a while.

Hope you didn't eat too much turkey yesterday. "Salud!"

[Tin Can]

Thanks Michael.

I also like a C33, better than a C330, but my best TLR is a $30 Yashica D.

Bless you and your son.


My kid LOVES the Mamiya, though he does complain about the weight. Gotta admit, it is nowhere as light as the Rollei, but a lot cheaper. I have an old Rollei Automat, 1939 model which still works quite well. Shutter speeds a little off, but it does me well. My Mamiya C33 is heavy enough, but I have a 135mm lens on it to make it that much heavier. I just don't use it as much, I would rather lug my Speed. Junior has a lot of fun with his cameras, He does like the D80 I gave him, but still prefers the look and feel of the film. Makes me feel good. :)

Sorry about your crappy health. When I was working in a nursing home I had one old timer whom I would greet in the early AM with a cheerful "Happy Monday" no matter which day of the week it was. He would grumpily correct me on the correct day then ask what was so happy about it. I would respond that it is better to look down at the flower blooms than up at the roots. He had to agree. My big problem is that I am only 5'6" in height and weigh 240# :( Blood sugars are pretty much under control, cellulitis is about gone and I really don't drink that much. I like Bombay Sapphire martinis and good wine. I limit myself to one martini every once in a while.

Hope you didn't eat too much turkey yesterday. "Salud!"

[AtlantaTerry]

My kid LOVES the Mamiya, though he does complain about the weight.

Aw geez, I photographed many a wedding with an RB-67 + Sunpak 611 strobe in my hands along with a shoulder bag full of lenses, film holders and film. Tell the kid to stop whining and start pumping iron! :)

[Michael Cienfuegos]

Aw geez, I photographed many a wedding with an RB-67 + Sunpak 611 strobe in my hands along with a shoulder bag full of lenses, film holders and film. Tell the kid to stop whining and start pumping iron! :)

He pumps the camera! I don't really use my RB-67 much anymore because of the weight. I'm 70, not in the best of shape and have relegated that thing to a tripod. I would rather use my Speed or my 5x7, they are more fun.