PDA

View Full Version : Newbie 4x5 Question : Nothing Shows Up on Groundglass!



just_another_actuary
18-Nov-2013, 20:15
Hi everyone,
I've finally managed to get a used Shen Hao HZX to get started. I've set up the camera, leveled everything to 0 - inserted the lens with the lens board - opened up the aperture blades ...but still nothing shows up on the GG!

Is it because of light leaks? I'm testing it out inside my room - is it because there isn't enough light at f/8? What am I doing wrong?

(this is a bit of a new thing for me - I'm so used to jacking up ISOs in low light :s )

Thank you.

Ajay.

Karl A
18-Nov-2013, 20:20
Hi there,

First off, you need a dark cloth in order to see much on the ground glass, do you have one?

Also, did you open the lens? There is a switch for that on the lens, hopefully you know what I mean (as opposed to just moving the aperture to wide open)

Finally, until you get the lens somewhat in focus it is difficult to see much in any case

Hope that helps

just_another_actuary
18-Nov-2013, 20:38
Hi there,

First off, you need a dark cloth in order to see much on the ground glass, do you have one?

Also, did you open the lens? There is a switch for that on the lens, hopefully you know what I mean (as opposed to just moving the aperture to wide open)

Finally, until you get the lens somewhat in focus it is difficult to see much in any case

Hope that helps

Thanks Karl.

Yes, I somehow managed to get that switch on before viewing after some experimenting (and confusing that cocking thing for the shutter). That seemed to keep the aperture blades open.

ah, I'm able to see something with the dark cloth on top of my head but only areas with a lot of light. So it should be an issue with there not being enough light! Let me test it outdoors.

Karl A
18-Nov-2013, 20:49
OK great, that is true in your home there is not enough light in general, you will find a big difference in daylight

Sounds like it is working fine

Good luck!

Darin Boville
18-Nov-2013, 21:28
Make sure when your lens is set to "open" that your aperture is at its wide-open setting (5.8, 8 or whatever). You'll shoot at whatever setting you like but you view at the wide open setting (this is automatic on 35mm/DSLR cameras but not on View cameras.

View: Aperture wide open, shutter open.

Shooting: Aperture at whatever you want it to be on per light meter, shutter closed and cocked.

Often in low light it will be a matter of finding a reference point to focus on--rather than seeing the whole image brightly. Sort of a pain but not a huge deal in the end.

--Darin

AtlantaTerry
18-Nov-2013, 21:37
It would help us greatly if you said what lens you are working with, both the focal length and maximum aperture.



Recently I was in a momentary panic when I was photographing a portrait while the sun was rapidly setting. I could not see anything on my ground glass! AT ALL!

The aperture was wide open and I had a dark cloth over my head. Hmmm...

It turned out the ambient light was getting so dark that there was simply not enough light to get through the lens and then through the ground glass and then to my eyes. What did I do? I handed the subject the 18650-powered LED flashlight I always carry on my hip. He turned it to illuminate his body so I could compose. Then he held it next to his head pointed toward me so I could sharply focus on the bright spot of light. He put the flashlight in his back pocket while I exposed two sheets of film. Then the light was gone. The final exposure was 1/2 second at f/8 on Arista.EDU Ultra 100. The scan looks very nice.

Keith Fleming
18-Nov-2013, 21:45
I also have problems from time to time with not being able to see anything on the ground glass--even outside and even after checking to make sure the lens aperture is wide open. The problem, however, invariably goes away when I take the lens off the camera and remove the rear lens cap.

My "Life List" of photography mistakes is longer than I would prefer!

Keith

just_another_actuary
18-Nov-2013, 22:03
OK great, that is true in your home there is not enough light in general, you will find a big difference in daylight

Sounds like it is working fine

Good luck!


Make sure when your lens is set to "open" that your aperture is at its wide-open setting (5.8, 8 or whatever). You'll shoot at whatever setting you like but you view at the wide open setting (this is automatic on 35mm/DSLR cameras but not on View cameras.

View: Aperture wide open, shutter open.

Shooting: Aperture at whatever you want it to be on per light meter, shutter closed and cocked.

Often in low light it will be a matter of finding a reference point to focus on--rather than seeing the whole image brightly. Sort of a pain but not a huge deal in the end.

--Darin


It would help us greatly if you said what lens you are working with, both the focal length and maximum aperture.



Recently I was in a momentary panic when I was photographing a portrait while the sun was rapidly setting. I could not see anything on my ground glass! AT ALL!

The aperture was wide open and I had a dark cloth over my head. Hmmm...

It turned out the ambient light was getting so dark that there was simply not enough light to get through the lens and then through the ground glass and then to my eyes. What did I do? I handed the subject the 18650-powered LED flashlight I always carry on my hip. He turned it to illuminate his body so I could compose. Then he held it next to his head pointed toward me so I could sharply focus on the bright spot of light. He put the flashlight in his back pocket while I exposed two sheets of film. Then the light was gone. The final exposure was 1/2 second at f/8 on Arista.EDU Ultra 100. The scan looks very nice.

Thanks Karl, Darin, Terry. It now shows up outdoors. I was shooting with a 90mm f/8 lens. I also made another mistake - I extended the bellows 160mm - so that seemed to cause an additional loss of light. Setting it close to 90mm increased the illumination.

Next is to learn how to focus with it!


I also have problems from time to time with not being able to see anything on the ground glass--even outside and even after checking to make sure the lens aperture is wide open. The problem, however, invariably goes away when I take the lens off the camera and remove the rear lens cap.

My "Life List" of photography mistakes is longer than I would prefer!

Keith

LOL. Mine came pretty abused without any front or rear cap, so I'm sure that's not the issue :D

Alan Gales
18-Nov-2013, 22:33
I also have problems from time to time with not being able to see anything on the ground glass--even outside and even after checking to make sure the lens aperture is wide open. The problem, however, invariably goes away when I take the lens off the camera and remove the rear lens cap.

My "Life List" of photography mistakes is longer than I would prefer!

Keith

I've done that one a few times! ;)

jnantz
18-Nov-2013, 22:49
sometimes if the lens is pulled out or not far enough it is impossible to focus



Hi everyone,
I've finally managed to get a used Shen Hao HZX to get started. I've set up the camera, leveled everything to 0 - inserted the lens with the lens board - opened up the aperture blades ...but still nothing shows up on the GG!

Is it because of light leaks? I'm testing it out inside my room - is it because there isn't enough light at f/8? What am I doing wrong?

(this is a bit of a new thing for me - I'm so used to jacking up ISOs in low light :s )

Thank you.

Ajay.

Leigh
18-Nov-2013, 22:53
The standard starting point for focusing a view camera is the infinity setting.

To focus at infinity, the distance from the film to the front of the lensboard should be approx equal to the lens focal length.

To focus on subjects closer than infinity, move the lens toward the subject, i.e. farther away from the film.

This should allow you to get close to proper focus rapidly.

Really accurate focusing requires use of a loupe or magnifier to enlarge the viewed image on the ground glass.

- Leigh

Larry Gebhardt
19-Nov-2013, 05:57
Just for clarification there are two sets of blades in your shutter. The first set is the aperture, which is what you set such as f/8. These are always open to the setting on the shutter. The other are the actual shutter blades which open for a set amount of time. These fully open then fully close after the set amount of time (a simplified description). To focus you need to open the shutter blades which is controlled by a lever on most shutters. Older shutters frequently have some variation of the lever such as a button, or require the use of the B shutter speed and a cable release.

To focus you need to fully open the shutter blades. Then it's easiest to focus with the lens wide open, so move the aperture lever to the smallest number. But you can also close the lens down to check the image at the aperture you intend to take the photo at, but it will lose 1/2 the light for each stop you close down. With a dark cloth to block outside light your eyes will adjust to the dim image and you can probably see the image on the ground glass even with the lens stopped down to f/22 or more. It may take a few minutes however.

If you have a wide angle lens (like your 90mm ) it will also be harder to see the projected image since the angle of light striking the ground glass keeps a lot of it from reaching your eyes. A fresnel can help mitigate this and give you brighter image.

just_another_actuary
19-Nov-2013, 06:09
Just for clarification there are two sets of blades in your shutter. The first set is the aperture, which is what you set such as f/8. These are always open to the setting on the shutter. The other are the actual shutter blades which open for a set amount of time. These fully open then fully close after the set amount of time (a simplified description). To focus you need to open the shutter blades which is controlled by a lever on most shutters. Older shutters frequently have some variation of the lever such as a button, or require the use of the B shutter speed and a cable release.

To focus you need to fully open the shutter blades. Then it's easiest to focus with the lens wide open, so move the aperture lever to the smallest number. But you can also close the lens down to check the image at the aperture you intend to take the photo at, but it will lose 1/2 the light for each stop you close down. With a dark cloth to block outside light your eyes will adjust to the dim image and you can probably see the image on the ground glass even with the lens stopped down to f/22 or more. It may take a few minutes however.

If you have a wide angle lens (like your 90mm ) it will also be harder to see the projected image since the angle of light striking the ground glass keeps a lot of it from reaching your eyes. A fresnel can help mitigate this and give you brighter image.

Hi Larry, yes it does look like the edges of the image are a bit dark. When I moved my eye sight near the edges under a dark cloth it somehow manages to become brighter. This is quite a bit of a learning curve, especially viewing the image upside down ... but I'll learn live with that.

I did some basic focusing exercises with rise/fall/shift etc and I think I've got a hold of it. Still finding focusing with tilt and swing difficult. Should hopefully learn in the coming days.

jnantz
19-Nov-2013, 07:07
since you are using a 90mm lens ...
the lens and front standard need to be around 3.5" ( or 90 mm )
from the ground glass. i suspect your lens is too far away from the glass
to get an image ... unless you are doing macro / close up "stuff"
try putting your front / lens standard closer to the film plane
... you will have no trouble getting an image on the glass ...

Nathan Potter
19-Nov-2013, 08:19
If you are a rank beginner there is a considerable learning curve to the complete procedure for taking a picture. Once you get the rough gist of the steps needed it's useful to write a workflow down on a piece of paper and carry it with you. Next it is useful to go thru the procedure many times so the whole operation is rote. As Bruce Barlow here says, practice, practice, practice.

Even after 70 years of LF I'll botch the image taking sequence during moments of rushing and excessive passion. At best the whole LF experience should be slow and contemplative.

So best of luck - and stick with it. Seems like you are making progress.

Nate Potter, Austin TX., Steuben ME.

smithdoor
19-Nov-2013, 08:35
Here one from a book I read in 1973 on ground glass
1 check to see if both lens cap are off (Note some lens have one the back side)
2. open the shutter
3. move the f-stop to the lowest number.
4. set focus. on inf for the first one (Image distance to lens is the size of lens)

Dave