The World Upside Down (Kickstarter project to fund 7x17 inch color special order)

[photoevangelist]

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First of all let me say, I'm not good with words. I'm like probably 99.99% of you. I'd rather be out there making pictures than sitting in front of this damned computer. But I do need to get the word out, because this is not something I cannot do on my own. I need help. Every little bit helps.

I've been very grateful to all the members on this forum that have helped equip me with the knowledge and tools of large format. Perhaps with some support from you I can send you a print or post card from South Korea of my work for your generosity.

I purchased a 7x17 camera around a year ago (thinking I'd skip the other formats-ha!), but had to have it sent to fixed by the esteemed Mr. Richard T. Ritter. While that was in the shop for several months, I purchased a 5x7 fixer upper and learned about the basic make of a large format camera. I have made some truly beautiful images with it since. I purchased a slightly faulty 8x10, fixed it up and began playing with the ever-so-special, 8x10 x-ray film. I photographed 55 of my students and exhibited the work in June. The 8x10 is now being used to document the Daegu, South Korea monorail. It's been a busy, fun, and expensive year! I'm now very comfortable shooting large format, and processing and handling the large film, scanning and printing it.

I'm now (almost) ready to dive into 2014 shooting almost exclusively with the 7x17.

I'm a professor of photography at a university in Daegu, South Korea. I believe very strongly in analogue film photography and large format. As the photoevangelist, I need to spread the word. Both of these have changed my work style and have helped me to find a personal vision I struggled to find using digital photography. South Korea is not like China, or some or the other countries that film photography is considered hip. Large format photography is dying very quickly here, if not just twitching. The only available large format is 4x5 - and even that is limited. Photographic enlargement papers have already been reduced to nothing but Ilford. Rodinal is imported by one individual. People just aren't interested. Koreans follow the latest trend. You'll be hard pressed to find a car older than my very own 1996 Kia. It's gotta be the latest, greatest, fastest thing - no matter what it is. Even good old furniture is dumped when a family moves to get the newest style of leather.

I'm in a very important position to make a strong defense for traditional and large format photography. Lately, special attention has been drawn to my work - and I have three magazine interviews lined up for the next few months. Earlier this week, my life and work was documented in a 30 min Korean national TV special. http://www.ebs.co.kr/replay/show?prodId=109179&lectId=10165925 Here you'll see me photographing the monorail with my 8x10 camera. I have no financial support for this work. These ideas are my own and I made the cold calls to get up in the monorail (currently under construction) to get special permission. I've seen other artists in Korea who have been given thousands of dollars in research money and grants given to them, but the quality (and passion thereof) of the work really is very short of the mark. I'm not qualified for these grants - or perhaps maybe the right person hasn't seen my work yet.

This is why I need help. Crowdfunding will help get me the attention I need. My final goal is to show drum scanned 7x17 color negative extra-large enlargements (think Massimo Vitali). If my project is successful, I plan to have enough work to exhibit by around 2015. However, right now I'm just trying to fund the film order.

7x17 color isn't a very popular format, so I'm going to start the special order if my proposal is funded. If you're a 7x17 photographer and are interested in a color special order, please help me make this happen.

I want to knock the Korean's feet off with a 1903 camera!
Support can be made here until Dec. 15: http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/643024268/the-world-upside-down/posts

Thank you for reading this far!

[Tin Can]

Good luck Lee!

[photoevangelist]

Good luck Lee!

Thanks, Randy!

[Paul Cunningham]

It looks like a great project in the making. Your profile piece on Korean TV was rather amazing - at 30 minutes it could itself be considered "large format." I look forward to following your work. Paul

[Lachlan 717]

Can you provide more information on the colour film order? Type? Amount needed? Price per box?

[Corran]

Nice! I'll be making a donation. Good work!

[photoevangelist]

Thanks guys! I'll PM you, Lachlan.

[ramon]

I hope you will get all the funding. Good luck Lee !

I am wondering why you forget to include 7x17 color film itself as reward.

That way it would also benefit the ULF people here, and you will have more chance to raise that huge amount of money.

[David A. Goldfarb]

I could also be interested in some 7x17" color film, depending on the type and cost.

[photoevangelist]

I hope you will get all the funding. Good luck Lee !

I am wondering why you forget to include 7x17 color film itself as reward.

That way it would also benefit the ULF people here, and you will have more chance to raise that huge amount of money.

It's a very novel idea indeed! But it's actually more complicated that that. If shipping is within the US, there is not so much of a problem. But worldwide shipping can get a bit tricky as each country is different. I myself am in South Korea and an insured box can be covered by the cheaper USPS, but other countries may require the higher UPS or FedEx that could cost the price of a single box. So I wouldn't know how to accurately price a reward to cover a single box of 7x17 film fairly for everyone. Remember I'm trying to raise funds, not go bankrupt. :)

If my project is successfully funded, then the 7x17 color order will be able to be made. At that point, I will invite others to join me in the order. I know 7x17 color is not available often, so I'd like others to be able to be apart of this. If you are a 7x17 shooter, how about pledging a small bit to my Kickstarter as an investment to hopefully get this 7x17 run started!

[photoevangelist]

I could also be interested in some 7x17" color film, depending on the type and cost.

I'm leaning towards Ektar 100 as I have more experience with it, but going to do some side-by-side tests with Ektar 100 vs. Portra 160 in 120mm and 4x5 to see if I wouldn't prefer that more in my shooting style. I've just been shooting with Ektar for it's economy and am pleased with it. For 7x17, I will want more bang for my buck.

[Lachlan 717]

+1 for Ektar.

[ramon]

Last summer I spent a long time trying to find transparency film in 5x7 format (or even 13x18) but haven't found anything. I am not ULF shooter but I want you to succed, because I hope this also would help all of us to have all kind of film available. I have just made a small pledge (sorry, I wish if it would be bigger).

About shipment cost. Yes, is a big trouble in kickstarter. A lot of projects get bankrupt because of international shipment costs. But I think that you can just add in big letters: CUSTOM TAX and SHIPMENT COST NOT INCLUDED. This is what I have seen recently in most new projects. So pledge is only for a box of 7x17 film, and each backer is responsible for paying the actual shipment cost.

Another way I just figured out: maybe instead of ULF people, maybe you can contact with film distributors (or online stores) and try to reach an agreement with them to distribute the film. Instead of offering directly the film to every individual.

As you know every year Ilford opens a ULF order period. The last one was this summer, you can take a look at: http://www.ilfordphoto.com/Webfiles/20136131658221147.pdf

"Annual ULF sheet film campaign 2013"

America:
Canada: Beau Photo Supplies, Big Camera Workshops, The Camera Store
USA: Badger Graphic Sales, Fotocare, Freestyle Sales, Glazer's Camera Supply, Hunt's Photo & Video, Keeble & Shuchat, Looking Glass Photo, Midwest Photo Exchange, Photo Warehouse, The View Camera Store

Europe:
France: Lumiere Imaging
Germany: Fotoimpex GmbH, ghf-foto GmbH & Co. KG, Maco photo products
UK: Silverprint Ltd, Process Supplies Ltd, RK Photographic, Ag Photographic, Walker Cameras, Keyphoto Limited

Asia:
Russia: FotoFrame, LLC
(only one distributor may be not enough to cover this region)

You can have a reward of a 7x17 box for USA, another one for Europe, another one for Canada, etc ... That way you don't worry too much about being overwhelmed by the need to individually ship every box.

[tenderobject]

goodluck lee! how are you going to process that big negative? very interesting!

[Lachlan 717]

Jobo 2xxx with extension do 2 sheets.

Jobo 3063 do 3 sheets.

[koh303]

Nothing really good to say about Ektar... but thats just my opinion.
I posted this on our FB page - good luck!

[Lachlan 717]

Nothing really good to say about Ektar... but thats just my opinion.

Based on what?

And, are you interested in buying in to this?

[koh303]

Based on what?

Mostly based on the hundreds of 4X5 plates and dozens of roll films shot since it was introduced, I have had only hard and time consuming experience working with ektar on Imacon and Creo scanners, mostly due to the high contrast.

For me t is almost impossible to control the contrast and little detail in darks. I guess it is good or perfect for some things, but not all, where as any porta film is perfect for everything and can easily be manipulated when scanned. Adding contrast is easy, taking it away is impossible, without loosing detail.

[photoevangelist]

maybe you can contact with film distributors (or online stores) and try to reach an agreement with them to distribute the film. Instead of offering directly the film to every individual.


Keep in mind a $13,000 minimum order is required with Kodak Alaris per emulsion. There are 7x17 shooters, probably most of whom are shooting b&w for contact printing. I doubt it would be profitable to keep 7x17 color in stock. It takes long enough to rally people to get an order for 5x7 or 8x10 together.

I'm looking to do something very different from what is currently being done in South Korea.

[koh303]

Can you post a projected cost per sheet/box of the material?

[vinny]

If you were contact printing these negs, I think you'd have something not too many people are doing and 7x17 prints would have stunning detail. I'd own one.
I wish you the best of luck getting enough orders to get the minimum.

[photoevangelist]

If you were contact printing these negs, I think you'd have something not too many people are doing and 7x17 prints would have stunning detail. I'd own one.
I wish you the best of luck getting enough orders to get the minimum.

I'm working on getting that reward up there, wether it be a true C-color contact print or a 7x17 inkjet print from a scan. Expect that up in the next few days. I just need to work out a few details before I upload that one up. You're not the only one that has expressed interest in a color "contact sheet" more related to the funding.

Thank you for your input, Vinny! I'm more than happy to add rewards that possible contributors would like to see happen.

[Anthony Bristol]

WOW! That is awesome! :D

[photoevangelist]

WOW! That is awesome! :D

Thank you, Anthony! I hope more people will feel the same way and help us get this project underway!

[photoevangelist]

104902

Someone else likes the project too!

[Lachlan 717]

I work it out to being around 40 boxes for the $13k. Seem about right?

[photoevangelist]

I work it out to being around 40 boxes for the $13k. Seem about right?

That is what I'm guessing too: 37-42 boxes. But I'm very hesitant about putting a reward for a box of film. I'm not sure of the exact costs. It could cost $250, or it could cost $350. If I put a reward up for $250, then I'm loosing money, if I put it up for $350 then whoever pledges could get upset about the prices. It'll work out better if the project is successful to just add your orders to mine. If you don't mind paying extra for the boxes of film, say $350-400?, then I could see about putting that up as a reward. That way your pledges will yield you a box of film and help me out a little. It just seems like it would work out better for you guys to wait this one out or pledge a little for a small reward than to buy boxes of film through pledges since we don't know the exact costs of the film.

-Lee

[StoneNYC]

I'm working on getting that reward up there, wether it be a true C-color contact print or a 7x17 inkjet print from a scan. Expect that up in the next few days. I just need to work out a few details before I upload that one up. You're not the only one that has expressed interest in a color "contact sheet" more related to the funding.

Thank you for your input, Vinny! I'm more than happy to add rewards that possible contributors would like to see happen.

I wouldn't offer ink jet AT ALL I think that's a terrible idea, sort of defeats the whole purpose of even bothering to use film.

If you're going to scan it at least have it printed with a light jet, that way it would still be a chemical print at least.

Just my perspective of course, I happen to really dislike inkjet especially because it fades really easily at least for the chemical print there's some stability for the long-term.

[Paul Cunningham]

@Stone, I see it the other way around. Ink jet should be archival up to 100+ years, and I have heard that some museums are no longer adding C-prints to their collections because of stability issues. Of course, I could be wrong, too.

[StoneNYC]

@Stone, I see it the other way around. Ink jet should be archival up to 100+ years, and I have heard that some museums are no longer adding C-prints to their collections because of stability issues. Of course, I could be wrong, too.

I haven't done pigment printing yet, but certainly my other inkjet printer images have faded in the sun (I test them by printing images for my mother as gifts and She always puts them in the window, and so I can tell within a year which ones have faded...). Hah!

[photoevangelist]

This is our printer:
http://www.canon-asia.com/business/products/large-format-printers/large-format-printers/imageprograf-ipf8410

[StoneNYC]

This is our printer:
http://www.canon-asia.com/business/products/large-format-printers/large-format-printers/imageprograf-ipf8410

Cool, have they solve the problem of making a print look like film? Often times I feel like there's a difference because you can see the grain in a chemical print where you can't really see that in an inc. prints because there isn't grain there are ink dots?

I'm not saying that it's a bad thing, printers can print at really high DPI's and I've seen some really nice prints made with the digital printer, I just recognize that there is a different look and that being the kind of people that are sympathetic to this being shot on film in the first place, you would think that maybe it would be better incentive if they were guaranteed the prints were printed optically or rather at least that the final print were also a chemical process just like the film.

Then again I am not your target audience, because I don't have the kind of money for this, and if I did I would be spending it on myself in going in on a bye in on group film purchase of specially cut sheets, and actually I'm currently in the midst of doing just that for another type of sheet film but I won't cross promote here as that might be rude ;)

Anyway I was merely curious about your thoughts on the different printing types, as I said the light jet printer is a little more authentic, you're still scanning the film but then you have it optically printed and the paper is still chemical process photo paper heck, what you could do is offer contact print as one option, and if people actually wanted something larger for some crazy reason, then they could have it optically done with the light jet that way both printing options would be done chemically and again it would be more authentic of an analogue film process.

[Lachlan 717]

If you're looking at a print at a range where dots are a factor, you're really, really missing the point of photography.

Photography is not a bloody micro Ishihari test.

[StoneNYC]

If you're looking at a print at a range where dots are a factory, you're really, really missing the point of photography.

Photography is not a bloody micro Ishihari test.

You're very very true, especially with prints as large as this, however I know as this is been discussed a gazillion times that people will walk up to the print to see the detail, do you want beautiful beautiful chemical print grain, or do you want lots of tiny little dots and making it just look like another magazine picture? and also again I'm talking about authenticity and usefulness of continuing to support The film process, the poster stated that part of the reason for doing this was to remind people of the importance of still using film and it's usefulness well I would say that using chemical printing as part of the process is just as important.

[photoevangelist]

Cool, have they solve the problem of making a print look like film? Often times I feel like there's a difference because you can see the grain in a chemical print where you can't really see that in an inc. prints because there isn't grain there are ink dots?


Our students just had a graduation exhibition and a good bit of them used our new printer. I'm a pixel-peeper myself and am easily turned off by the ink grain dots. They are barely there, but I have to almost make myself cross-eyed to see them. One of the supposed advantages to the pigment print is the longevity over the chemical prints. I've never made a Lambda print, but I would like to love to make a comparison print soon.

[unixrevolution]

Good luck, and I wish you well. I don't own a 7x17 but I may throw in a small pledge just to help.

Also, looks like your 8x10 is a Korona...I have a Korona myself, and I love it!

[photoevangelist]

Good luck, and I wish you well. I don't own a 7x17 but I may throw in a small pledge just to help.

Also, looks like your 8x10 is a Korona...I have a Korona myself, and I love it!

Thanks, Erik! Yes, my 8x10 is a Korona. It's a little finicky. The front standard looks to be a DIY project to give it tilt movements. It often comes of it's pins, but it does it's job!

[npthanh1910]

Your profile piece on Korean TV was rather amazing - at 30 minutes it could itself be considered "large format." :)

[photoevangelist]

Your profile piece on Korean TV was rather amazing - at 30 minutes it could itself be considered "large format." :)

Thank you! That's quite the complement! I've translated half the video (that could be considered "ultra large format", haha) and uploaded this to YouTube: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LG5TbDlo7Dw

I received a phone call the other day from the number one TV Korean station and they want me to give a lecture on TV in Korean at prime time on a Sunday evening. I'm really excited about this. I have a phone interview with them today to discuss the details of the topic I'll discuss. Wish me luck!

[photoevangelist]

For those of you that are interested in purchasing 7x17 color film, I've thought of a way that we can work together.

Contact me via PM with how much you would be willing to put towards a color film purchase order. Since we don't know exactly how much each box will cost, this money you pledge can be used to go towards that purchase. For example: If you are interested in three boxes of 7x17 color film, let's say a pledge of $900 would be a good estimate. I then create a unique reward for each individual (I don't think there will be a lot of people interested in 7x17 color so I think this could be a good way to make a receipt for your purchase). Example: "This $900 pledge goes towards Mr. Joe Smith's 7x17 color film order in full. Any additional costs are the responsibility of Mr. Joe Smith once the exact film order costs and shipping are calculated" Reward Quantity 1 of 1. I'm terrible with words, you can re-word the reward details however you think is fair.

I'd love to have the full order of 7x17 color to myself, but the current pledge amount is pretty low with only a few days left to go. I need big pledges now to make the funding a success. A couple of $500 or $1000 pledges towards a few boxes of film could help make this project be funded and all of us that want to shoot 7x17 inch color film can be shooting with it in 2014.

[photoevangelist]

Just a friendly reminder that my project called "The World Upside Down" will be ending on December 15th. I seek to photograph some of South Korea's biggest events and landscapes with color film in a 7x17 inch camera during 2014-2015 and exhibit them as very large panoramic prints. With a successful project, I also plan to donate these large prints to galleries and museums across South Korea.

More about the project can be found here:
http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/643024268/the-world-upside-down?ref=category

An update about the future of Lee Smathers in South Korea. On December 25th, I will be in Seoul recording a 10-15 min. lecture/speech in front of a live audience (think talk show audiences). My lecture will be in Korean and will be aired on Korean national TV at prime time on a Sunday following the recording. Many Korean (and foreign) celebrities have hosted this program, but it'll be the first for a photographer to host the show. I'm very excited about what other opportunities might come out of this. It would be really incredible to be able to talk about the success and support of the worldwide community for the funding of my Kickstarter project. Please help spread the word and if you are able, a small pledge to the successful project could reward you with a nice hand-designed or hand-crafted souvenir from an active large format photographer (and celebrity?) in South Korea. Thank you!

[Corran]

Good luck Lee...I "Kick"ed in a little more, maybe it'll help.

As an aside, the bulk-load movie film sounds like fun but I'm sure shipping across the pond would be a little troublesome?

[photoevangelist]

Good luck Lee...I "Kick"ed in a little more, maybe it'll help.

As an aside, the bulk-load movie film sounds like fun but I'm sure shipping across the pond would be a little troublesome?

Thanks for the extra kick, Bryan!

Everything I've got priced on the project includes shipping. It's a great deal considering Cinestill is nearly $10 a roll! Pay for convenience, I guess. I just shot some of it in my Mamiya 7 the other day. I'm anxious to get these scanned.

[Corran]

Cool, I guess I'll be a hipster, haha!

[photoevangelist]

Cool, I guess I'll be a hipster, haha!

Cheers to being hip!