LF virgin here, wants used lightweight landscape field 4 x 5 - recommendations

[NancyP]

I have never shot LF and I have never had a camera/lens with movements, aside from a 35mm macro bellows with swing and shift (Nikon PB4). I have NO large format equipment. Shooting LF has been a bucket list thing. I started photography on 35mm SLR shooting, developing, and printing my own B&W. I want to assemble a kit, starting with a lightweight field 4x5 camera with enough movements for landscape, including shooting from the base of river bluffs (I live in St. Louis, and the Illinois bluffs on the Mississippi north of St. Louis are impressive). I have noted Chamonix, Shen-Hao, Tachihara, wooden Calumet, Toyo on eBay over the past few months. I was hoping to spend $500.00 to $700.00 for a lightweight camera I could carry in a hiking pack. Chamonix looks very appealing, as does Shen-Hao. Which of the lightweight field cameras would be a good novice's camera ? Thanks in advance. Once the camera is in hand, expect questions on lenses and spot meter and accessories and scanning and..... :confused:

[Ari]

The lightweight field cameras are made of wood; the heavier field cameras are metal.

I find that metal cameras have a higher degree of precision than their wood counterparts, the trade-off being a few pounds gained in your backpack.

If you think you'd be ok carrying a few extra pounds and would prefer a little more stability and precision, look for a metal field camera (Toyo, Wista, Linhof Technika IV are within budget).

I know there are some fine wood cameras as well, I just can't speak to their robustness or strength.

I can only speak to my own experience, which is based on much heavier use of, and appreciation for, metal cameras.

[Alan Gales]

Hi neighbor and welcome to the forum.

I own a Tachihara and a friend of mine owns the Toyo. Like Ari said the Toyo is sturdier but my Tachi is lighter. For a wooden field camera the Chamonix is said to be really sturdy but lightweight. You might find one used for $700.00.

To he honest, any of the cameras you mentioned should work fine.

[NancyP]

Thanks, that was quick! I weigh 120# dripping wet, and figure that the kit would include my 5.5# tripod, one or two smaller lenses, a loupe, a spot meter, and I would like to keep the weight at 12# or so total, exclusive of a 6# LF-adaptable pack and the hiking "10 essentials" including plenty of water.

Alan, do you belong to any of the camera clubs in STL? Is there a LF user group in STL?

[Alan Gales]

I'm not a member of any clubs now but I was a member of The St. Louis Camera Club back in the 1980's. You can check out their website if you are interested. There is also The St. Louis Photography Club which also has a website. I believe that there are a few members in each club who shoot large format but most of the members are all into digital capture.

I have heard about a Strobist Club and a Nature Photography Club but I don't know much about them.

[AtlantaTerry]

I weigh 120# dripping wet, and figure that the kit would include my 5.5# tripod, one or two smaller lenses, a loupe, a spot meter, and I would like to keep the weight at 12# or so total, exclusive of a 6# LF-adaptable pack and the hiking "10 essentials" including plenty of water.

There is a thread somewhere around here where people discuss alternative ways of transporting their LF gear on hikes instead of on their backs. One that got a lot of attention was when use of one of those three-wheeled baby carriers was mentioned.

[Erik Larsen]

Pm sent

[Bruce Watson]

The lightweight field cameras are made of wood; the heavier field cameras are metal.

I love generalities, especially when they are so wrong. :D

The lightest field camera in production is metal: the Toho FC 45X (http://www.thalmann.com/largeformat/toho.htm). There were a couple of wood cameras that were a few grams lighter, but they're out of production now. Rumor and hearsay indicated that they took out so much structure to become light that they lost some of the required rigidity and had wear problems. IDK for sure since I never used either one.

I bought my Toho strictly for backpacking, and I built a light weight kit around it. But I liked it so much that it's been my only camera; I use it for everything. I've been using it for over a decade. It's an outstanding LF camera; I've made some excellent photographs with it.

If you're looking to build a lightweight kit, do some searching on Kerry Thalmann. He did a ton of research on light weight LF and published a lot of it, especially what he learned about lenses.

[redshift]

Michael graves has a CC-401 listed in "For Sale" for $125. It's a monorail but from my perspective it's a featherweight. I wouldn't hesitate to take the standards off the rail and throw it in a pack.

[Alan Gales]

Bruce is right about googling Kerry Thalmann Future Classics. Kerry has a wealth of information on lenses and which ones are great for backpacking. Also check out Ken Lee's site and the LF Home Page on this forum.

No large format groups in St. Louis but I have learned a lot from this forum.

[NancyP]

Thanks! I will look into this - I sought out the Kerry Thalmann link, and it looks like a winner. I have a f/stop gear pack with several sizes of insert, and I think that I could readily fit the fragile stuff in a "medium" insert, and the monorail could sit in the main compartment.

[Ivan J. Eberle]

One aspect of Metal folding field cameras that is often overlooked or dismissed is that under favorable conditions it is quite possible to dispense with the tripod to use them handheld (not going to happen with a wooden field that requires GG focusing). Especially useful time for an accurately calibrated rangefinder. Big weight savings!

The other thing that occurs is that wooden folders rank among the most aesthetically appealling but least necessary large expense when you look at what used press and monorail cameras are selling for the past several years. LF has never been more affordable... That is until or unless you start down the path of shiny new toys...

[Ari]

I love generalities, especially when they are so wrong. :D

The lightest field camera in production is metal: the Toho FC 45X (http://www.thalmann.com/largeformat/toho.htm). There were a couple of wood cameras that were a few grams lighter, but they're out of production now. Rumor and hearsay indicated that they took out so much structure to become light that they lost some of the required rigidity and had wear problems. IDK for sure since I never used either one.

I bought my Toho strictly for backpacking, and I built a light weight kit around it. But I liked it so much that it's been my only camera; I use it for everything. I've been using it for over a decade. It's an outstanding LF camera; I've made some excellent photographs with it.

If you're looking to build a lightweight kit, do some searching on Kerry Thalmann. He did a ton of research on light weight LF and published a lot of it, especially what he learned about lenses.

Well, more an observation based on my experience. :)
I should have prefaced that with "In general..." but there will always be a few exceptions anyway.
While I was typing I knew there must be some Toyo or other that weighs a few dozen grams less than a Chamonix, but in the interest of brevity, I did not make that point.
And the OP was asking about field cameras; as kool as that Toho FC45X is, and I'd love to have one, it's no field camera.

[NancyP]

Toho looks pretty interesting, and also pretty hard to find.
Toyo 45CF seems to be more common, as are the wooden cameras. I have no objection to plastic/carbon fiber.
I am not sure that I would want to use a field camera hand-held, given that my subject, landscapes, is static.

[Alan Gales]

Toho looks pretty interesting, and also pretty hard to find.
Toyo 45CF seems to be more common, as are the wooden cameras. I have no objection to plastic/carbon fiber.
I am not sure that I would want to use a field camera hand-held, given that my subject, landscapes, is static.

You can pick up Toyo 45CF's (carbon fiber) cheap but I don't think they have any rear movements like the metal Toyos do and the other cameras you first mentioned. The press cameras that you can hand hold don't have rear movements either and some like my Crown Graphic have very limited front movements.

You really need to do your research before you buy. That way you can make a more informed purchase. I highly recommend reading the Steve Simmons book, Using The View Camera. You can find it on Amazon.

[NancyP]

I am making my way through the Leslie Stroebel book at the moment. Some of the newer camera bodies and lenses aren't in there, but the explanation of what one can do with each type of movement seems straightforward. Maybe the first thing to do is to look at a scene while shooting with my DSLR and sketching out the geometry.

Thanks everyone.

[David Lobato]

The Toyo 45CF is pretty light. The camera is only a portion of the total weight. Choose lenses carefully, 135mm and 150mm lenses are compact and sharp. 210mm and 240mm f5.6 lenses are nice but heavy, f9 versions weigh less. 90mm f6.8 - f8 lenses are smaller and lighter than 90mm f5.6 versions. Slower lenses are lighter and easier to carry. Extras like film holders add more weight that you will carry. My solution is to use a slightly undersized pack and leave some stuff at home. Any size pack you have gets filled up - David's rule of backpacks. Have fun learning large format.

[Light Guru]

I was hoping to spend $500.00 to $700.00 for a lightweight camera I could carry in a hiking pack.

Just to be clear is that 500-700 budget of your just for the camera or are you wanting to get everything you need to shoot for that. In addition to a camera you also need lenses, film holders, tripod, filters, and developing equipment.


The camera is only a portion of the total weight.

Yup and a good sturdy tripod is one of those things. A bigger camera needs bigger support.

[Wayne]

I never regretted the extra weight of my metal Wista 45sp, even when I was hauling it around the mountains. My 135mm folds up into the camera, so I'm ready to shoot as soon as I set up the camera. No way a lightweight wooden field camera could stand up to me, and I just like the solid feel of the camera and the solid way it locks in. And it's not by any means heavy.

[Brassai]

I own a Shen Hao and Chamonix 045n. Both are good, but I really like the chamonix. It's a very modern camera with lots of style. I'm strictly an outdoor camera and have found the chamonix plenty strong enough. For lenses, you might look at a light 90mm or a 135mm lens. I used a Cambo monorail when I first started, but they are very slow to set up and take back down.

[Weihan]

I can highly recommend the Walker Titan XL, which is primarily designed for wide to ultra-wide angle lenses. The camera is very light weight and is the closest thing to "indestructible" in the LF range. It sets up very fast, and can be equipped with both a standard and a WA bellows. The Schneider SA 47mm XL can be used very easily on this camera, and the stability / firmness is first-rate!

[Doremus Scudder]

A lot of good answers so far.

However, I'll take a different tack and come out in favor of wooden folders.

I spend a lot of time lugging my gear around hiking, backpacking and just walking in the city. For me, a three-pound camera is really nice to have. I have some folders that are six-plus pounds and they always end up staying at home or in the car or just going short distances. My lightweight monorails also tend to stay behind just because of the bulk. I like my field cameras to fold up into a small package that is easily packable and protects the front standard. I also always have a ground-glass protector. This allows the camera to take a little more knocking around.

As for sturdiness, I have never had a problem except in high winds. This I can usually deal with by weighting the camera with a jacket or the like or just laying my hand on the rear standard before releasing the shutter. Sure, if you drop a wooden camera off a cliff it will likely break easier than a metal one of the same design. I think it's worth the weight savings to just treat my gear with a little more TLC.

My lightest camera is a Horseman Woodman; a bare-bones wooden field camera that still works with lenses from 75mm to 240mm (300mm with a lens on a top-hat lens board). It weighs 3.2 lbs.

One of my favorite field cameras is the Wista DX (not the DXII, which has no shift, or the DXIII which is heavier because it has a graflok back). It folds up with a small lens on it, saving space as well (I can even fold it with my 240mm Fujion A mounted). It takes the same lenses as above and it weighs 3.25 lbs.

The Chamonix cameras look very interesting to me and would be on my short list if I were looking for a new field camera. The longer bellows would enable the use of slightly longer lenses. Shen Hao and Tachihara cameras look nice as well, but I have no experience with them.

Generally, however, the lightest weight wooden (or other) cameras are going to lack all the features found on bigger, heavier cameras. Tradeoffs include shorter bellows (12 inches for many wooden folders), fewer and less-extensive movements (shift on only one standard, or no shift at all, base tilts only, rise/fall on only one standard, etc.). The lightweight cameras that do offer more extensive bellows and movements (like the Chamonix) tend to be a bit more fiddley and time-consuming to set up.

Fuller-featured and longer-bellows wooden folders can be bulky and just as heavy as the metal field cameras (six pounds and up). I have a nifty Zone VI camera that I use very little just because it is bigger and heavier. Some of the Shen Hao cameras are in this category.

If, like me, you want an easy to carry and easy to operate kit that will be adequate for all but extreme cases, I'd recommend looking at camera weight specifications first. Get a selection of light-weight folders and then compare other specifications. I would not get a camera without shift on one of the standards. Other than that, you can get by easily with rise/fall just on the front standard and base tilts (which are easy once you take the time to learn them). Bellows length may be a factor for you if you want to use 300mm or longer lenses. That said, I use a 300mm Nikkor M on an extended lensboard on cameras with 12-inch bellows all the time.

Looking past the camera, if weight is going to be an issue, do take the time to inform yourself about lightweight lenses and accessories. Kerry Thalmann's website is a good place to start.

FWIW, I usually carry a Wista DX, four or five lenses, six film holders, a spot meter, two sets of filters, dark cloth, loupe and other accessories and my kit weighs in at under fifteen pounds. Add a light weight tripod to that and it is still really portable for long distances. My packing lens kit consists of a 90mm f/8 Schneider Super-Angulon, a 135mm of some make (usually a plasmat like the Nikkor W or a Wide-Field Ektar), a 203mm f/7.7 Ektar, and a 300mm Nikkor M. I'll toss in another lens like a Fujinon A 240mm or 180mm, or a 75mm lens if I have room/need. Or, I'll cut down to bare bones and take a 100mm Wide Field Ektar, a lightweight 135mm and the 240mm Fujinon A.

I prefer dividing my kit between lumbar pack, a vest and other pockets instead of having everything in one backpack. For backpacking trips, I'll cut down on the number of lenses and filmholders/accessories and my kit will still be manageable even with everything else in my pack.

Hope this helps,

Doremus

[John Kasaian]

Ultra light 4x5? Look for a Gowland while you're at it. And a Nagaoka, if you can find one.

[sethlatimer]

If I were in the market for a backpackable 4x5 camera I would try to buy this one:
http://www.largeformatphotography.info/forum/showthread.php?107631-FS-Gowland-Pocket-View-45-225&highlight=gowland

[Cor]

I second the Gowland suggestion, I have one too. There are a few drawbacks though; setting up and taking down takes time/practice, no big deal, but a bigger problem that you have to lock down all knobs really well, else it will not be sturdy. Swapping between landscape and portrait mode is annoying, I have to get out an Allen key to be able to turn the back (plus a small screw driver I need to carry to tighten the focusing wheel). On the up side you'll only need a flimsy light tripod (and pray for the wind to lay down, or hang a bag from the tripod).

All in all I would not advice to get a Gowland as first camera, only if you are looking for the absolute lightest setup..(try to get Mido holders type II than also)

Best,

Cor

[Bruce Watson]

...as kool as that Toho FC45X is, and I'd love to have one, it's no field camera.

Don't be daft. Of course it's a field camera. It's design purpose is to be a lightweight camera for backpacking, and it does that duty superbly.

[Bruce Watson]

Thanks! I will look into this - I sought out the Kerry Thalmann link, and it looks like a winner. I have a f/stop gear pack with several sizes of insert, and I think that I could readily fit the fragile stuff in a "medium" insert, and the monorail could sit in the main compartment.

Did you look at his lightweight LF lens (http://www.thalmann.com/largeformat/lightwei.htm) pages? Great resource.

[Ari]

Don't be daft. Of course it's a field camera. It's design purpose is to be a lightweight camera for backpacking, and it does that duty superbly.

Ok, it's the lightest field camera ever. :)

Personally, I like a 135 or 150mm lens sitting inside a Wista or Linhof Technika, and not worrying about shooting at 1 second in windy conditions.
Open the camera, rack the lens out to the infinity stops, compose and shoot.

[NancyP]

This is a very friendly forum, thanks for all the suggestions.
To start with, I know that I am going to need to get lots more than the camera body, the hoped-for budget was $2,000.00 or under for a body, one or two high quality lenses, a light meter, backs, tanks or trays, basic chemicals, box of film. I thought that I should start looking for individual pieces rather than hope for someone selling the "ideal kit". Right now I have nothing other than high-quality tripods and a Hoodman non-magnifying loupe for LCDs.

My Big Fat Hiking Tripod should be adequate: Feisol CT3472 with Arca-Swiss Z1sp ball head. 5.5#, but I can hang a couple of water bottles off the hook - legs aren't going anywhere. (great legs, great head, btw). My aluminum Manfrotto 055 legs and Manfrotto 410 Jr. geared head with Hejnar conversion to Arca-Swiss clamp, a little heavier, but favored for astrophotography (easier to set declination for the mini-equatorial mount ) and for architecture - this could be the choice for any near-car view camera use. There's a third 3# travel tripod/head combo, clearly not appropriate.

I have looked over Kerry Thalmann's site, and appreciate the practicality of going for a slightly dimmer but lightweight f/8 lens rather than the f/4.5 or 5.6 lenses. I do prioritize weight because I intend to hike with the full kit. It seems reasonable to get a camera with moderate movement versatility and light weight, rather than one with extreme movement versatility and heavy weight, because my first goal is to get out and learn to use the camera, mostly for landscapes, and see if I really like using view cameras - remember, I am a complete newbie. If I want to shoot challenging architecture later on, I can get another body. I have both DSLR (Canon) and compact (Sigma DP2/3 Merrill) cameras for different uses, I don't expect one view camera to do everything equally well either. Damn G.A.S.! ;)

Besides eBay and the major used dealers like Midwest Photo Exchange, and specialty dealers like Badger, where does one find used LF gear? Local Craigslist (St. Louis MO, a reasonably big city) is devoid of LF gear. I was surprised that there isn't an obvious "for sale/ want to buy" forum on this LFP site.




I spend a lot of time lugging my gear around hiking, backpacking and just walking in the city. For me, a three-pound camera is really nice to have. ....

Horseman Woodman; ..... Wista DX (not the DXII, which has no shift, or the DXIII which is heavier because it has a graflok back).

>>>>Thanks for the info on these

If, like me, you want an easy to carry and easy to operate kit that will be adequate for all but extreme cases, I'd recommend looking at camera weight specifications first.

>>>>> Time to make that Excel spreadsheet.....an updated version of the list in the 1999 Stroebel book.

I would not get a camera without shift on one of the standards. Other than that, you can get by easily with rise/fall just on the front standard and base tilts (which are easy once you take the time to learn them). Bellows length may be a factor for you if you want to use 300mm or longer lenses. That said, I use a 300mm Nikkor M on an extended lensboard on cameras with 12-inch bellows all the time.

>>>>Thanks

I prefer dividing my kit between lumbar pack, a vest and other pockets instead of having everything in one backpack. For backpacking trips, I'll cut down on the number of lenses and filmholders/accessories and my kit will still be manageable even with everything else in my pack.

>>>>> I keep little stuff, filters, lenscaps, wired release, etc in pockets of a vest. My source for "photographer's vests" is Bass Pro or Cabela's hunting/fishing shops - plenty of sizes and choices, all in "camo" ;)

Doremus

[Ari]

You can try KEH for used gear; meanwhile, a nice kit is available here: http://www.largeformatphotography.info/forum/showthread.php?108266-Zone-VI-with-lens-holder-loupe-meter-etc/page2&highlight=zone

[Len Middleton]

You can try KEH for used gear; meanwhile, a nice kit is available here: http://www.largeformatphotography.info/forum/showthread.php?108266-Zone-VI-with-lens-holder-loupe-meter-etc/page2&highlight=zone

And you will be able to view the For Sale classifieds once you have put in your 30 days.

We have rules in this community about no politics or religion, and somehow the metal versus wood cameras has escaped falling under one of those categories, although I do not know why...

Earlier in this thread it seemed that there were some other members in the LFPF community in your area. Might be useful to find out when they are looking at going out again and join them and see what they are using and why, the relative strengths and weakness, and what they consider essential and what is nice to have.

Besides most LF photographers would welcome someone offering to be a sherpa and carry part of their kit, even if it is the tripod...

[Winger]

I know you've already gotten lots of great suggestions, but I figured I'd chime in because we are about the same size. I just bought a Chamonix F1 and I love it. I started my LF journey with a 9 pound Cambo monorail and have actually hauled it into the woods (well, up to about 200 yards from the car down a hill to a waterfall). I didn't pick my lenses based on weight, but none are huge. I can put the camera, three lenses (a 105mm, a 135mm, and a 210mm), 6 film holders, light meter, and extraneous stuff into a backpack I have (not really a photo one, but it works ok for now) and hike pretty well. I haven't had a chance to go on any long hikes, but two or three miles are fine. The bag weighs less than what I call my "exploratory pack" when I'm going out with no real plan - a Lowepro miniTrekker with a Pentax dSLR, a Pentax 645N with its 75mm and 120mm and extra film, batteries, light meter, filters.
The Chamonix are less likely to be found on the used market than some older models, but they almost fit your price range brand new. I'm relatively new to the LF world, but I'll guess that the wood vs metal battle has been going on for decades and has proponents on each side who have good points. I don't treat my equipment like fine china, but I do my best to not wreck it. So far, I'm perfectly happy (quite happy, really) with my F1.
Keeping your eye out on the classifieds here and at apug could get you a decent setup to start with and then you can sell/swap the pieces you find you don't like for ones you might.

[Alan Gales]

Yeah, Craigslist is a bit of a joke for camera gear here in St. Louis. There is also a camera show that pops up at alternating Holiday Inns every 3 or 4 months but it is mostly 35mm gear.

Towards the bottom of the forum page on here there is a for sale section. If I remember right you have to be a member for a month before you access it. You also might be interested in joining APUG. It's an analog photography forum which also has a buy/sell section. I'm a member there also like quite a few other people on here.

For a first lens I would look for a multicoated lens from Schneider, Rodenstock, Nikon, Fujinon or Caltar in a modern Copal shutter. They are all good so let condition and price be your guide. A "normal" focal length is the easiest to learn on. Normal is considered 135mm to 210mm.

[Ivan J. Eberle]

Never would I presume that a wood field camera isn't someone else's best choice.
However, I will suggest that for someone just starting out in LF, that instead of falling in love with the look or style of a camera, he or she might be better served to consider instead working backwards from the specific needs of what subject matter they're most passionate about (or find most interesting).

For instance, images of coastal cliffs (considering the OP did mention the Illinois Bluffs) calls for having abundant front/rear rise and fall available, and might require a larger wide angle having a huge image circle, and a bag bellows– features a great many cameras simply won't accommodate.

[Kodachrome25]

Save your self the trouble / distraction of experimenting and just get a Chamonix 45N2 (http://www.chamonixviewcamera.com/45.html) or an F1 (http://www.chamonixviewcamera.com/045F1.html) if you feel up to buying new. I use my 45N2 professionally in pursuits such as climbing 14,000+ foot peaks, skiing double black diamond terrain and not only is it light, it is *highly* adjustable, super rigid all the way up to it's massive 396MM of bellows extension and is a very precise tool. The focus stage is basically the same used in the high tech industry (http://www.ppli.com/stages.html) for robotic QC in the wafer fab scene and is adjustable in tension by a single allen screw on the focus knob support (http://www.chamonixviewcamera.com/_images/045N2005.jpg), very handy when going from below zero to warm climates in a given year.

The camera is not just wood, it is a logical combo of Teak or Maple, aluminum and carbon fiber and was designed by Chinese mountaineers. You can in part tell the latter by the inclusion of tie-off points as are being used in the photo attached. In this shot last week I had the camera and tripod leaning over a 2,000 foot drop quite a ways in order to give my 90mm Nikon SW a clear view, being able to tie it off has given me peace of mind on several occasions.

I had a Toyo 45CX when just starting in LF and sold it to get the the Chamonix after just a couple of months....You could not pay me to use another camera in 4x5, it would still be a bargain at twice the price. There are a fair number of people who are moving to the new 45F1 so I have seen 45N2's going for around $800 on a regular basis, snatch one up and get on with learning LF on the best outdoor field camera going.

[NancyP]

For some reason the LF site won't let me view the kit page.

[NancyP]

Oh. Well, if anyone cares to send me a PM re: kit they want to sell, that's fine too. I have PLENTY of research to do in the meantime. Good idea to PM the other St. Louisan and offer to sherpa the kit and bring a lunch/beverage of choice.

[NancyP]

Holy moley. Skiing black double diamond with a LF kit, hanging the poor camera over a 2K' drop - I am impressed with your skills and willingness to go far to get your shot. I haven't skied since I was a kid, stopped at a single diamond and didn't do that all that smoothly either. The tie-down point might come in handy even in snow-challenged Missouri and Illinois, what with our lovely limestone bluffs.

[ic-racer]

Don't get too hung up over weight. Select a field camera you enjoy using.

[Bill Poole]

Nancy: I have a kit you might like. PM sent.

Bill Poole

[john borrelli]

Not sure if you have purchased your camera yet and I don't know if I missed this point in the thread but what I wanted to mention was to consider starting with one used lens, a new woodfield camera and two to four new film holders, add a spot meter or a camera that has a spot meter and a few accessories, a dark cloth(or black t-shirt), a light and inexpensive 5X Peak loupe.

This small a kit will save you weight, money and will make things much easier to learn LF photography. The question of which lens is important in LF photography because some LF cameras work best with certain lenses. If you could only pick one focal length what would it be?

I use normal focal length lenses and so many traditional woodfield cameras will do, I then can concentrate on a light camera with adequate movements. However, if I wanted to use a long or wide lens as my only or primary lens, I might have chosen a different camera. Traditional cameras with around 12 inches of bellows tend to work best with lenses between 135 and 240mm. Some of the newer woodfields are more flexible in this regard. I owned a metal Arca Swiss Discovery(about 6 lbs) with a folding monorail that was like heaven with a 150mm lens but when I added a 90mm lens and a 300mm lens, I eventually bought so many Arca Swiss accessories, like extra metal rails, extra bellows I became frustrated carrying all the stuff and ended up selling everything and buying a 35 mm rangefinder and using that as my only camera for several years.

I owned a Tachihara, in my opinion they work best between 135 and 240 as was true with the stock Discovery, I found the Discovery to be precise and indestructible but heavy. The Tachihara felt much, much lighter but was very delicate with one of the fine metal parts breaking after very light use. The Tachi had a nice fresnel groundglass, better than my current camera, which is a Wisner. Incidentily, a bright sharp groundglass is an important part of any camera, particularly if you choose a wide angle lens or a longer lens with a smaller maximum fstop.

If it fits your photographic vision definitely consider a used 150mm f 5.6 lens. This humble lens is like a 50mm lens in 35mm film photography. Like other formats, these lenses are small and light to carry and take small filters, they are bright to focus, they are some of the sharpest lenses made, provide good depth of field particularly with movements and you can get a company's newest versions at a good used price. 180mm and 210mm 5.6 lenses are bigger but tend to have more room for movements, 135mm lenses are small like the 150 and sometimes smaller, these lenses are a little wider but some have less room for movements than the 150mm.

One last thing the Strobel book you mentioned is a tough read,it is a good reference book though. I would suggest for camera movements The Ansel Adam's book "The Camera"; books that try to teach movements by photographing wood blocks are not so useful unless you plan to photograph wood blooks.

[Ed Bray]

Lightest 4x5 LF camera I have found was a Horseman Woody, takes Technika lensboards and has a good range of movements.

[john borrelli]

Of course The last word on my reply should have been spelled "blocks" and I should have also mentioned another good book, namely Jack Dykinga's Large Format Nature Photography.He provides some nice color landscape images and then, the effect of movements on an image, including both before the movement is applied and then after on the same image, When I started this was helpful for me to see. This is a great forum and welcome.