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MadJake
11-Nov-2013, 10:58
Hi guys and gals

Other than a Packard shutter what are my options for unshuttered lenses? Those of you that use one speed (ish) shutters like the Packard do you use ND filters to control DOF?

Thanks

John

Ken Lee
11-Nov-2013, 12:56
I use a Sinar Copal Shutter (http://www.kennethleegallery.com/html/lenses/index.php#Shutter). People have put them on a variety of cameras other than Sinar too.

Another option - attractive for certain lenses - is to front-mount (http://www.kennethleegallery.com/html/lenses/index.php#Alphax) them in an older larger shutter.

Leigh
11-Nov-2013, 12:57
An ND filter will absolutely not affect DoF in any way.

DoF is a function of the diameter of the aperture iris. DoF increases as the aperture gets smaller.

With a fixed aperture lens (no adjustable aperture), your DoF is what it is.

- Leigh

jcoldslabs
11-Nov-2013, 13:27
An ND filter will absolutely not affect DoF in any way.

Not directly, but when using a fixed shutter speed ND filters allow the use of different apertures to reach the same exposure value thereby allowing greater DoF control.

Jonathan

Leigh
11-Nov-2013, 13:42
...ND filters allow the use of different apertures...
How do you use "different apertures" when the lens is fixed aperture with no means of adjusting same?

- Leigh

Dan Fromm
11-Nov-2013, 13:45
Leigh, I may have been a lucky shopper but all of my lenses in barrel are in barrels with iris diaphragms.

BrianShaw
11-Nov-2013, 13:48
Leigh, I may have been a lucky shopper but all of my lenses in barrel are in barrels with iris diaphragms.

I got lucky like that a couple of times too. :o

jcoldslabs
11-Nov-2013, 13:53
How do you use "different apertures" when the lens is fixed aperture with no means of adjusting same?

You don't.

J.


EDIT: I was operating on the assumption that the OP had aperture control available. If not, you're absolutely correct.

Leigh
11-Nov-2013, 13:53
Leigh, I may have been a lucky shopper but all of my lenses in barrel are in barrels with iris diaphragms.
Hi Dan,

Yes, certainly aperture systems like Waterhouse stops were available.

I didn't think the OP was referring to such a lens, but perhaps I mis-interpreted the original post.

- Leigh

Dan Fromm
11-Nov-2013, 14:24
Leigh, some of my lenses in barrel have slots for Waterhouse stops or filter holders, others don't. All have iris diaphragms. I must have picked my lenses carefully.

More seriously, I think that what the OP is getting at is something that I hate even to think about. Suppose you have a one-speed shutter or one that syncs with flash at a low speed and want to choose and aperture that will give overexposure because the shutter's too slow or ambient's too bright. Then ND filters will give you control.

Cheer,

Dan

jp
11-Nov-2013, 14:28
Hi guys and gals

Other than a Packard shutter what are my options for unshuttered lenses? Those of you that use one speed (ish) shutters like the Packard do you use ND filters to control DOF?

Thanks

John

What I use...
4x5 ; speed graphic cameras 1/10-1/1000 shutter speeds, Rb Super D SLR camera.
8x10; speed graphic on front standard, 1/30-1/1000 sec shutter speeds,
14x17; galli shutter

Merg Ross
11-Nov-2013, 14:35
Another shutter to consider is the Luc. It is most often used as front mounted but can be rear mounted also.

DannL
11-Nov-2013, 14:45
You may try placing a stop in front of, or behind the lens and possibly get acceptable results. I have done both with my 8x10 in certain lens configurations. Convertible lenses may work in this configuration. My ND filter is a ND 3.0 (10-stop) filter. It gives me plenty of room to play. I have used it primarily in situations where the film was too fast and I knew I could not move the lens cap quickly enough. Naturally a 10-stop ND filter on a shuttered lens would allow you to open up for a shallower depth of field. 10 stops may be over-kill for most folks.

MadJake
11-Nov-2013, 17:26
Thanks for your responses some great ideas for me to look at.

I should have been clearer, I was referring to lenses with stops, Waterhouse or diaphragm so ND filters would be used to control DOP but a PIA

John

pasiasty
13-Nov-2013, 07:19
http://www.calkovsky.com/electric-shutter-for-large-format-field-cameras/

MadJake
13-Nov-2013, 12:05
That's an interesting option, thanks.

J

brandon13
20-Nov-2013, 13:21
I have an eastman kodak rochester shutter that i front mount on a dallmeyer 3d. I unscrew the shade and gaffer tape the shutter in front and the shutter actually then becomes the shade. It works quite well as the shutter opening is the exact dimension of the glass.

104986

Dan Fromm
20-Nov-2013, 14:25
That looks like a large Compound shutter. Not made by EKCo, might (great stress might) have been made under license by B&L.

Thinking of Compounds and lenses that can't be put in shutter, I have a #5 Compound shutter, industrial type with no diaphragm, and an adapter for hanging it in front of a 900/10 Apo Saphir. Putting the lens in front of the shutter wasn't an option, the lens' barrel blocks access to the shutter's controls.

brandon13
20-Nov-2013, 15:57
That looks like a large Compound shutter. Not made by EKCo, might (great stress might) have been made under license by B&L.

Thinking of Compounds and lenses that can't be put in shutter, I have a #5 Compound shutter, industrial type with no diaphragm, and an adapter for hanging it in front of a 900/10 Apo Saphir. Putting the lens in front of the shutter wasn't an option, the lens' barrel blocks access to the shutter's controls.
Okay I'm not sure who made the compound shutter. on the lens attachment it says made in USA by Eastman Kodak Co. Rochester NY. Anyway it works like a charm.

Misko
21-Nov-2013, 22:00
I use a Sinar Copal Shutter (http://www.kenleegallery.com/html/lenses/#Shutter). People have put them on a variety of cameras other than Sinar too.
Is there a site explaining how to mount them on other cameras (mostly interested in Cambo)?

MadJake
22-Nov-2013, 13:44
Gaffer tape is great eh brandon13 :)

The Sinar shutter looks great. Until I checked the price...

I'm primarily a wetplate photographer and have stacks of Petzval and other shutterless but with diaphragm/Watwrhouse stopped lenses that I want to now use with film which is why I'm made the original post. However I've found a big (3"ish) roller blind shutter which I think may have a few speeds. Problem is it's knackered. Does anyone restore these to their former glory? I guess one option (weeps) is to offload some of my lovely Petzvals....

Cheers

John

Misko
23-Nov-2013, 04:04
I guess one option (weeps) is to offload some of my lovely Petzvals....
Let us know if you decide to do so :)

And BTW did you think of making a shutter of Graflex Pacemaker maybe? 3x4 one would be enough basically for any lens up to 3" diameter.

gleaf
23-Nov-2013, 05:10
The electronic shutter the Chalkovsky link points to is a 40mm (4 CM) aperture. Whole assembly is under 10 cm square. Nice shutter... My war baby Dallmayer requires a 3.5 inch aperture.. So went with a Packard which will front mount. Side note, he sure has a nice 12 inch AM he thinks is a Dallmeyer. Call for price... temptation!

brandon13
27-Nov-2013, 15:10
Gaffer tape is great eh brandon13 :)

The Sinar shutter looks great. Until I checked the price...

I'm primarily a wetplate photographer and have stacks of Petzval and other shutterless but with diaphragm/Watwrhouse stopped lenses that I want to now use with film which is why I'm made the original post. However I've found a big (3"ish) roller blind shutter which I think may have a few speeds. Problem is it's knackered. Does anyone restore these to their former glory? I guess one option (weeps) is to offload some of my lovely Petzvals....

Cheers

John

Gaffer tape is beyond great. I've used it several times to test lenses before modifying a lens board specifically for said lens. I bought that compound Shutter here on the forum and I believe it was around $140.00 ?????

MadJake
27-Nov-2013, 16:34
Yeah, can't fix a dropped digi cam with gaffer :)

To get me up and running with film again (dunno why I sold my lenses and camera but glad I've still got 10 8x10 dds!) I got this for $275 eBay Item #:261336467030
No import duty on this either which is a bonus.

J