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Ian Greenhalgh
8-Nov-2013, 00:49
Hi folks

I'm just looking for suggestions and experiences of lenses around 120mm for 5x7. My budget is limited so older, cheaper options are the more appealing. I have both a Ross WA Xpres 4/5" and a Dallmeyer Wide-angle Anastigmat 4.5/5" but neither is in shutter, the Ross needs an Ilex #4 which is almost impossible to find here in England, and the Dallmeyer's cells doesn't appear to be threaded to fit anything other than it's original barrel, sadly.

So what options are there? The only ones I see for sale fairly often are the Angulon 6.8/120 and Super-Angulon 8/120. The Super-Angulon is probably a little too expensive for me right now, but maybe an older chrome one would be a good option as a nice price?. Am I correct that theAngulon6.8/120 only has a 211mm image circle?

Small size would be a bonus too, as it will be used for field work, but isn't critical.

Just looking to work out the options, canvas opinions and figure out what kind of cost I'm looking at, might require selling something or saving for a while.

Lachlan 717
8-Nov-2013, 03:08
What's your budget? (Rough is fine).

The 120mm SA is a fairly large lens. They often go for low to mid $300s.

Ian Greenhalgh
8-Nov-2013, 03:11
150USD. If that's unrealistic, I will have to save my pennies for a while. :)

Ed Bray
8-Nov-2013, 03:24
There's also a 121mm f8 Super Angulon, these tend to go for a little less than the 120mm, they will almost cover 8x10 so have plenty of movements on 5x7, there are a couple on ebay at the moment around $250.

Ian Greenhalgh
8-Nov-2013, 03:56
Cheers Ed. I'm also wondering what older cheaper options there may be.

Michael Graves
8-Nov-2013, 05:45
A 125mm Fujinon 5.6 will cover 5x7 with room to spare. I have seen those go from as little as 125 to as much as 400, depending on condition and other factors. This is a lens as small as the Angulon 6.8, which as you point out covers the format, but with very little wiggle room for movements. You might keep an eye out for one of those.

Chuck Pere
8-Nov-2013, 08:17
The 120 wide angle Congo will cover but just barely. Mine is Osaka branded. Very small, MC and modern shutter. Maybe hard to find used. I haven't looked recently. 220mm coverage. http://www.cosmonet.org/congo/spec_e.htm

Jim Noel
8-Nov-2013, 08:24
I have owned and used a 120mm Angulon in a Deckel Compur shutter for more years than I care to mention. A great little lens.

Leigh
8-Nov-2013, 08:33
The Nikkor 120mm f/8 lens has a large 316mm image circle, affording generous movements on 5x7.

The lens is larger than most 120mm, weighing 610 grams. It's mounted in a Copal 0 shutter, and takes 77mm filters.

I have one. It's an excellent lens, but may not be within your current budget.

- Leigh

Jody_S
8-Nov-2013, 09:19
150USD. If that's unrealistic, I will have to save my pennies for a while. :)

Fujinon off the 'bay. You'll find one sold by a Japanese seller described as 'junk' but it will probably be a quite capable lens. It may take a month or two before you win one, but keep trying.

I don't know which Fujinon will do, as the 'W' series is a little confusing (to me, anyway).

As for vintage 5x7 wide angles, I have several which I can only use on a packard, but the nicest of the bunch by far is marked only 'Luxor'. the VM hints that it may have been made by Cooke, which appears to be the equal to my more modern wides by Schneider. If you like the look of your present lenses, your cheapest solution might be to get one of those front-mounted shutters made by Wollensak (? - the one that has the slow speeds, not just 'I' and 'B').

Alan Gales
8-Nov-2013, 09:32
There's also a 121mm f8 Super Angulon, these tend to go for a little less than the 120mm, they will almost cover 8x10 so have plenty of movements on 5x7, there are a couple on ebay at the moment around $250.

I own one of these. I paid less than $200.00 for mine including shipping off ebay. Mine has been engraved on the rear element barrel but the glass and shutter are in great shape. It will barely cover my 8x10 with no movements and is a real nice focal length on my 4x5.

I have seen a few others since go for right at $200.00 plus shipping. As always, you have to be patient to find a deal.

Ian Greenhalgh
8-Nov-2013, 09:38
Thanks guys, all good info. Fujinons and Nikkors (and many Rodenstocks) for that matter, tend to be very hard to find here in England, Schneiders are pretty common though.

I know the seller in Japan, often has Fujinons and Topcons, nice guy, very honest and helpful. However, UK customs have killed off that source with their incredibly harsh fees, i bought a Mamiya K/L 140mm macro from the nice Japanese guy, with a tiny spot of fungus so with postage it was only 42ukp. Customs charged my 48ukp fee, so I'm very reticent to buy anything from outside the EU anymore as I expect the lovely chaps at customs will double the cost.

Drew Wiley
8-Nov-2013, 12:07
I'd strongly disagree with that 125 Fuji W recommendation. It's a very nice lens, but I find movements rather cramped even on 4x5 film, unless you resort to rear tilt.

Peter De Smidt
8-Nov-2013, 12:24
I have a 125 Fuji W, and Drew is right. It's a fine lens, but there's not much movement potential on 4x5 let alone 5x7.

Drew Wiley
8-Nov-2013, 13:25
I'm not aware of any Fuji SW in this kind of focal length, but an ordinary 120 Super Angulon or its Rodenstock or Nikon clones will have plenty of coverage for 5x7.
These of course are true wide angle designs, replete with distortion and falloff.

Leigh
8-Nov-2013, 13:32
I'm not aware of any Fuji SW in this kind of focal length...
My database shows a Fujinon SW 120mm f/8, in a Seiko 0 shutter, using 77mm filters, but no other info.

I probably got that from a FS ad somewhere. I make a point of validating info before I put it in the database.

That lens is also in an online database here: http://www.subclub.org/fujinon/byseries.htm
That listing gives a 100 angle of coverage and a 250mm image circle.
They include a photo of the lens. Click on the underlined focal length. I can't link it here for some reason.

Kerry Thalman has a page from a 1997 Fujinon catalog showing a 125mm f/8 in the SW series.

- Leigh

Ian Greenhalgh
8-Nov-2013, 14:00
So it's looking like a Super-Angulon 121 or 120 is the best option for me. The Rodenstock and Nikkor alternatives just aren't easy to find here.

Drew Wiley
8-Nov-2013, 14:01
That link per picture didn't work for me. Anyway, any Seiko shutter single-coat Fuji would probably predate US distribution and be pretty damn rare or battered at
this point in history, if it ever existed. I suspect any reference to a later 120SW involves some kind of typo. I'd expect the real deal to be f/5.6, not f/8. In any event, it would be like looking for an albino sasquatch. Fuji lists were infamous for typos.

Carsten Wolff
8-Nov-2013, 15:19
My 5x7 wides (not exactly 120mm, sorry) are:
104.3mm Wide-Angle Raptar (I widened the aperture from f12.5 to ~f6.5 for composing) in a nice small Alphax #2 shutter. Image circle seems to be about 240mm; It also came as (nominally) 108mm.
My other (much larger) favourite is my 90mm Caltar, IC about 235mm+ and my wonderful
Fuji-W 135mm, IC also 235mm. Other 135 options would be e.g. the Kodak Wide Field Ektar and Meopta Belar, but both these would be either out of your budget, or rare.
A few years ago I was the proud owner of a 108mm Cooke VIIb which I managed to squeeze into a Copal 0, but it wasn't a great solution due to closely spaced elements and filter fit issues. That exercise cost me $250 all up and I sold the lens. I'd love to see a new Cooke of that ilk matched to a Copal 0 or 1, perhaps with a 52mm filter, as a travel lens.
I suspect I have/had many of these lenses because I could/never wanted to afford a 110 Super-Symmar XL.
I also occasionally use a 75mm SW-Nikkor, which I managed to get for about $300, but movements aren't an option on 5x7 with it.

drew.saunders
8-Nov-2013, 17:43
This: http://www.willwilson.com/fujinonlc.html
Shows most Fuji LF lenses (doesn't have the "Fujinar" Tessar-design lenses) in it.

There's an older single-coated 120/8 SW with a 290mm image circle and a 125/8 NSW with EBC coating and a 280mm image circle.

Of the various 125/5.6's, only the oldest single-coated "W" with a 46mm filter thread (which I have) at 210mm IC would seem to be good enough for 5x7. I know it has all the coverage I need for 4x5, considering I moved from a 179mm IC Schneider APO-Symmar (pre-"L").

jonreid
9-Nov-2013, 01:59
I own one of these. I paid less than $200.00 for mine including shipping off ebay. Mine has been engraved on the rear element barrel but the glass and shutter are in great shape. It will barely cover my 8x10 with no movements and is a real nice focal length on my 4x5.

I have seen a few others since go for right at $200.00 plus shipping. As always, you have to be patient to find a deal.

+1 for the Super Angulon 121mm. Loads of room to move on 5x7. Tie the thing in a knot.
Not a small lens though, and mine's in a synchro compur (I think) which is a bit more finicky than a more modern shutter.
Jon

Bernice Loui
9-Nov-2013, 10:51
Considering the cost of producing LF images, quality of images expected, one's time spent, image opportunities missed/gained, the cost and quality of optics should not come down to the difference between 150 or 300, as that difference will be easily made up after not too many sheets of film. Better to have very few excellent lenses than a pile of lenses that do not fit one's imaging needs.

Given the expectations and ... suggestion would be for using one of the wide-angle double anastigmatic lenses like the Angulon, and others as they offer good performance at their cost and are small. Most any of the Biogon style wide angle lenses are going to be much larger and cost a bit more. Worth the extra cost and size if one is willing to live with this trade off and all optics are a trade off in one way or another.

As for using a plasmat (does not matter who made it) as a semi-wide angle on 5x7, unless it is one of the up market and expensive ones (Symmar HM or similar special WF design), their image circle or coverage is going to be a problem.


Bernice


150USD. If that's unrealistic, I will have to save my pennies for a while. :)

Jerry Bodine
9-Nov-2013, 11:05
+1 for the Super Angulon 121mm. Loads of room to move on 5x7. Tie the thing in a knot.
Not a small lens though, and mine's in a synchro compur (I think) which is a bit more finicky than a more modern shutter.
Jon

My Super Angulon 121/8 in Synchro Compur, bought new in the early '70s, is one of my favorites. Lots of coverage for 5x7, but almost no wiggle room on 8x10. It's served well until the shutter froze three years ago. Had it CLA'd by Flutot's for 77USD shipped (and very fast turnaround) and it's good to go again, just needed cleaning.

dasBlute
9-Nov-2013, 11:47
+1 for the 121mm SA; it's my very favorite lens for 5x7

coisasdavida
9-Nov-2013, 16:17
+1 for the Super Angulon 121mm

jackpie
10-Nov-2013, 05:33
...and it's another

+1 for the Super Angulon 121mm

from me too but the Nikon 120 is also great, and I bet the SA 120 is too, although I've not personally used it. These wide angle designs are a bit heavy and bulky but are the best solution for 5x7 wides unless you want to step up to the far more expensive modern 110XL. I've tried the older 120 angulon, wolly 108mm f6.8 WA Raptar and Fuji 135w looking for a lighter field solution but in the end they don't have enough coverage for much movements so are all compromised. One workable light weight WA lens for 5x7 is the 150 G-claron but it's only moderately wide.

While you are saving for these just use a lens cap as your shutter on your older wide angle lenses in barrel. These are normally being used stopped down anyway so using a lens cap is easy for times around a second or over. It's just a problem with lenses used wide open for portraiture etc with faster shutter speeds. Slower film helps too but all the 25asa B&W films seems to have been discontinued. You could use paper negatives.

Andrew - doing 5x7 B&W in Manchester, England.

Bernice Loui
10-Nov-2013, 11:35
Worth noting.. Wide angle lenses for 5x7 or 13x18cm are not too difficult to find with many choices. From the Schneider 72mm XL to a good number of Plasmat designs can be used as "wide" angle lenses.

Going up to 8x10 or larger the choices become much more limited, lenses larger (for similar angle of view/image circle), heavier and ....


Bernice


My Super Angulon 121/8 in Synchro Compur, bought new in the early '70s, is one of my favorites. Lots of coverage for 5x7, but almost no wiggle room on 8x10.

Ian Greenhalgh
11-Nov-2013, 06:56
Cheers guys. I have a G-Claron 9/150 in Compur 0, that will probably end up being my most often used lens on 5x7 I expect.

I will be using paper negatives and Agfa graphics arts films, so the lens cap idea would work, I will try it.