Which 210mm and 240mm lens for 8x10

[biggis]

hi all

I have been looking for 210mm or 240mm lens for my 8x10 camera that will let me have a lot of movements.

I have look at almost all the treads that talks about those lenses and I have not found out what I am looking for

So I was hoping that you all could help me with this.

[Ari]

Many 240mm lenses in a Copal 3 shutter will handily cover 8x10, they were made for the format.
Other lenses, such as the Fujinon 250 f6.7, also cover 8x10.
This chart will help: http://www.largeformatphotography.info/lenses/LF8x10in.html

[Drew Wiley]

You're pushing your luck with 210, but there are a few compact lenses out there that will do it. If you want to work compact in the 240 to 250 range, you can
choose between the 250 G-Claron, 240 Fuji A, or the less common 250/6.7 (don't confuse this with the 6.3) - all of these will easily cover 8x10 with moderate
movements at typical working apertures.

[Bob Salomon]

210mm Apo Sironar W fully covers 810.

[vlcak]

if you are looking for older lens - Angulon 210mm f6.8 has a lot of movements for 8x10.

[Peter De Smidt]

Another good choice is a Docter Optic 240mm f9 Germinar W, which, like the Fujinon A, fits in a #1 shutter.

[Drew Wiley]

Most general-purpose 250/5.6 studio plasmats should be fine, but aren't very convenient in the field due to their weight. But what exactly do you mean by "plenty"
of coverage? Are you contemplating something like extreme rise?

[Leigh]

Rodenstock Apo-Sironar (W) 210/5.6 - 352mm IC

Rodenstock Apo-Sironar S 240/5.6 - 372mm IC

I have both of those lenses. Each has the largest IC of any lens in my database in the respective focal length.

I believe common practice for extended movements is to tilt the camera bed, then set front and back vertical.
That technique provides more rigid support than relying on extensive shift of the front standard.

- Leigh

For reference, the full diagonal of 8x10 film is 325mm. The image area diagonal is slightly less.

[Arne Croell]

The 210mm Super-Symmar HM from Schneider was the competition of the Apo-Sironar W and has about the same image circle. It is bigger and heavier though.

[Alan Gales]

The Fujinon 250mm f6.7 lens that Drew mentioned has an image circle of 398mm. It is single coated if that matters to you.

[Jim Noel]

210 Computar Symmetrigon

[Bob Salomon]

Rodenstock Apo-Sironar (W) 210/5.6 - 352mm IC

Rodenstock Apo-Sironar S 240/5.6 - 372mm IC

I have both of those lenses. Each has the largest IC of any lens in my database in the respective focal length.

I believe common practice for extended movements is to tilt the camera bed, then set front and back vertical.
That technique provides more rigid support than relying on extensive shift of the front standard.

- Leigh

For reference, the full diagonal of 8x10 film is 325mm. The image area diagonal is slightly less.

The S has a smaller circle then the W had. The W covered 80° the S 75°.

[Leigh]

Hi Bob,

The values I gave are from recent Rodenstock datasheets.

The 210/5.6 that I have is a W, confirmed by the dimensions, although it does not have W engraved.
My W is in a Copal 3 shutter and takes 105mm filters, vs. Copal 1 and 72mm for the Apo Sironar-S.

I don't know about earlier versions.

- Leigh

[Peter De Smidt]

How much movement does the Symmetrigon have? I had one at one time, and my feeling then was that it didn't cover 8x10. That was years ago, though, and I'd be happy to be incorrect. It's a very different beast from the F9 Computars, which cover significantly more.

[Lachlan 717]

How much movement does the Symmetrigon have? I had one at one time, and my feeling then was that it didn't cover 8x10. That was years ago, though, and I'd be happy to be incorrect. It's a very different beast from the F9 Computars, which cover significantly more.

I'm with you on that one, Peter.

[Bob Salomon]

Hi Bob,

The values I gave are from recent Rodenstock datasheets.

The 210/5.6 that I have is a W, confirmed by the dimensions, although it does not have W engraved.
My W is in a Copal 3 shutter and takes 105mm filters, vs. Copal 1 and 72mm for the Apo Sironar-S.

I don't know about earlier versions.

- Leigh

There were only two versions of the 80° coverage version. The original labeled an Apo Sironar in 150, 210 and 300mm and then, when the Apo Sironar S was introduced the original 80° coverage lenses became the Apo Sironar-W. The W/Apo Sironar covered a larger circle then the S series.

[Leigh]

...when the Apo Sironar S was introduced the original 80° coverage lenses became the Apo Sironar-W. The W/Apo Sironar covered a larger circle then the S series.
Yes. The W is the one I have.

I also have the Apo-Sironar-S 210/5.6, which is in a Copal 1 shutter and takes 72mm filters.

With its 316mm IC it might cover 8x10 on a good day, but I wouldn't bet my necessaries on it.

- Leigh

[jeroldharter]

Rodenstock ApoSironar W 210 is an outstanding lens for 210. I have one and they are very hard to find. However they are large and heavy.
A G-Claron 210 barely covers 8x10 but it much lighter. Unless you can find the W, I would stick with the 240-250 where many lighter, less expensive options exist.

[Drew Wiley]

That Symmetrigon recommendation sounds off. It's the f/9 process Computar or the equivalent f/9 Kowa graphic you'd want. A 210 G Claron will probably cover, but without much wiggle room.

[Daniel Stone]

OP, do you want more modern lenses, or does any vintage work for you?
single, multi, or uncoated mean anything to you in your search?
a few more specifics would be helpful to use narrowing the field for ya

I have a 240A Fujinon, and it's super sharp. I used it briefly on 8x10, and it covered with some movements. Not a lot, but a bit. But it's a TINY lens size-wise, and you won't even notice it in your pack/case since it's so small.

-Dan

[Sal Santamaura]

Another good choice is a Docter Optic 240mm f9 Germinar W, which, like the Fujinon A, fits in a #1 shutter.While the 240mm Germinar W fits in a Copal 1 shutter, the 240mm Fujinon A is in a Copal 0 shutter.

[Peter De Smidt]

Thanks for the correction, Sal.

[Bernice Loui]

More specific on the image requirements will help narrow the choices.

Know that regardless of the choice, light fall off can become a significant problem for the angle of view desired with this focal length and film format size along with lens size. There are only trade offs and no magical optic that will "do-it-all".

Two lenses that have big image circles resulting in lots of camera movement:

*210mm Super Angulon

*200mm Grandagon


Both will easily cover 8x10 with lots of camera movement. They are both large, heavy and expensive with good image quality.


Bernice




hi all

I have been looking for 210mm or 240mm lens for my 8x10 camera that will let me have a lot of movements.

I have look at almost all the treads that talks about those lenses and I have not found out what I am looking for

So I was hoping that you all could help me with this.

[EOTS]

Hi,

I'm using a Schneider Super Symmar HM 210mm f/5,6 which came in the package deal with the camera.
It's quite heavy (1,5 kilograms = 3.3 pounds) but has some coverage (356mm at f/22).
http://www.schneideroptics.com/info/vintage_lens_data/large_format_lenses/super-symmar-hm/super_symmar_hm.pdf

Another lens that came with the camera is the Rodenstock Apo-Sironar S 240mm f/5,6 (2.20 lb (1000 g)) with 372mm image circle
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/43936-USA/Rodenstock_160705_240mm_f_5_6_Apo_Sironar_S_Lens.html

I'm preferring the 210mm for a more wide angle view though, as I like the 110mm on 4x5",
and because it is not as close to the 300mm ...

My Fujinon-A 240mm f/9, which I mostly use for 4x5", is ridiculously lightweight in comparison and covers 8x10", but not with much movements ...
(245g, 336mm image circle)

Best regards,
Martin

[Drew Wiley]

Just remember that those published image circles are typically at f/22. With 8x10, even smaller worker apertures are typical. The 240 A Fuji is fairly generous at
f/45 or f/64. Once you go into a true wide angle lens, however, you not only encounter size and wt issues, but the stretching or distortion typical of wide angle
design. Just depends what you want. For extreme architectural movements, I find 4x5 more practical in this respect. But it's pretty damn rare I encounter an
8x10 arch. subject which can't be handled with one of the compact 240's or 250's. 210 is a more difficult question, since the appropriate lenses tend to be more
expensive or outright scarce.

[biggis]

I do use almost all movements when I am shooting. I like to get everything in focus and I am printing 40x50 inch fiber prints with it. I have the fujinon-A 240 but it gets a little bit to soft in the corners for my. The wight is not the biggest problem, I want rather to have the images sharp.

Thank you all for you responses

I got this lens form my friend to test for few days, Rodenstock Sironar-N 240mm f/5.6 MC What to you all think about that one.

[Sal Santamaura]

...I got this lens form my friend to test for few days, Rodenstock Sironar-N 240mm f/5.6 MC What to you all think about that one.Extremely sharp to the corners and a 350mm image circle. If that's enough room for movements in your situation, I think it will be the best you can do. Should you need more room for movements, an Apo Sironar-S will offer a somewhat larger circle with similar image characteristics.

[Jim Galli]

In spite of what you may have read, a 240mm f9 G-Claron has a 410mm usable image circle. Huge on 8X10. Totally affordable! And tack sharp.

[Steve Goldstein]

Jim, is that 410mm IC for the 210 at f/22 or some smaller aperture? That would imply almost 600mm (assuming things scale) for the 305 G-Claron I just picked up, which is astounding.

[Bernice Loui]

I have a 210mm Kowa Graphic that also covers 8x10.. light fall off, a problem.

Kowa graphics appeared in other focal lengths and is similar to the G-Claron.
There are other wide field "process lenses" that fit this description.

Still, not knowing what the image requirements making a good suggestion on optics remains nebulous.


Bernice

[Drew Wiley]

I own both the 240A and 250 G-Claron, and previously owned a Fuji 250/6.7, and have down forty inch Cibachromes from 8x10, which are capable of holding more detail than any fiber-based print. So I have a pretty good idea of what these lenses are good for and what they're not. If you're going to do extreme tilts to that
degree of enlargements, and want tack sharp corners, you'll want to rely more on back tilt than front. It helps to shoot at f/64, which were only very slightly degrade
sharpness from 8x10 compared to f/45, but will factor in somewhat. You get maybe two inches of rise, without the use of tilt or shift, before an upper corner might
be a little bit compromised. All three of these lenses have very similar real-world circles of coverage, despite different published specs, which had different applications in mind. And I am speaking of enlargement, not contact printing, for those of you coincidentally named Jim. And I seriously doubt that a Sironar N is
going to give you any better coverage, if even equal. Maybe an S. But extreme movements are really going to require something of wide-angle design, in which
case you're going to have to deal with the usual falloff and distortion issues, plus the damn weight. I'd rather have the lesser vibration risk of the smaller lenses,
regardless. And I do like my prints sharp.

[Regular Rod]

I have a 210mm Computar by KOWA. It is a convertible lens. By removing the front element you then have a 370mm lens. It is handy to have two lenses in one. My example does cover 8x10 very nicely including with some movements at either focal length. Being small, it is a back packer's ideal lens of fine quality and convenience. I would buy another if I ever lost mine, it is just too useful to be without!

RR

[Eric Leppanen]

Here is a previous thread regarding 210mm lenses for 8x10:

http://www.largeformatphotography.info/forum/showthread.php?44442-210-for-8x10

I have owned a number of these lenses, and the sharpest in my experience was the 210mm APO Sironar W, if you can live with the coverage.

As previously noted you have more options at 240mm. I have never tried the 240mm Sironar N (does this lens have enough coverage for you?), but I have used the Sironar-S, Fuji-A, and Germinar W (reportedly similar in design to the G-Claron, albeit multi-coated). If you can live with the bulk and coverage, the Sironar S will generally produce the sharpest results, as it has better edge sharpness than the Fuji, and doesn't need to be stopped down (as the Germinar does) to achieve maximum coverage.

The Sironar S and W are pricey, good alternatives include the APO Symmar, Fuji CM-W and previous generation plasmat designs (Symmar S, etc.).

[ic-racer]

Here is a previous thread regarding 210mm lenses for 8x10:

http://www.largeformatphotography.info/forum/showthread.php?44442-210-for-8x10

And another before that: http://www.largeformatphotography.info/forum/showthread.php?62302-210mm-Lens-for-8x10-Spotters-Guide&highlight=210mm

[john borrelli]

I'm sure this has been mentioned but rarely you will see the Rodenstock 210 W on Ebay at a very low price. This is because the seller thinks he is selling an "N" when he is really selling a "W". Even if there is hardly any verbal description and only bad photos, the size 3 shutter is a giveaway.

[Leigh]

the sharpest in my experience was the 210mm APO Sironar W, if you can live with the coverage.
I don't understand your "live with the coverage" comment.

Its 352mm image circle exceeds that of the Apo-Sironar-S and -N, both 316mm.

The Apo-Sironar-W 210/5.6 will easily cover 8x10 with movements. I use mine as such.

- Leigh

[Bob Salomon]

I don't understand your "live with the coverage" comment.

Its 352mm image circle exceeds that of the Apo-Sironar-S and -N, both 316mm.

The Apo-Sironar-W 210/5.6 will easily cover 8x10 with movements. I use mine as such.

- Leigh

The N has a smaller circle then the S. The W has a larger circle then the S. Why do you keep repeating wrong info?

The 210mm Apo Sironar-N and the older Sironar-N MC and Sironar-N covered 301mm at infinity at f22
The 210mm Apo Sironar-S covers 316mm at f22 at infinity.
the 210mm Apo Sironar-W and the older Apo Sironar covered 352mm at f22 at infinity.

The S is a current production lens. The others are all discontinued and out of production. Though some could still be available new at camera stores.

[Leigh]

Hi Bob,

The Sironar-N was mounted in a Copal 1 and had a 301mm IC @ f/22.

Its contemporary Apo-Sironar (no suffix) was mounted in a Copal 3 and had an IC of 352mm.

104007

Eric's post, to which my reply was addressed, was talking about the Apo-Sironar-W lens.

I think the non-suffix Apo-Sironar with the 352mm IC, to which I referred, did become the Apo-Sironar-W.

- Leigh

[Bob Salomon]

But this is what you posted.

"Its 352mm image circle exceeds that of the Apo-Sironar-S and -N, both 316mm."

And it is wrong.

[Corran]

I have a Graphic Kowa 210mm that I bought pretty cheaply that works great and has plenty of movements. I've seen various claims of coverage but for me I get inches of rise out of it, no problem. (edit: this photo (http://www.largeformatphotography.info/forum/showthread.php?71352-Old-Things-Farms-Barns-Buildings-Plus&p=1050968&viewfull=1#post1050968) was taken with it, with like 2 inches of front rise)

The only bad thing is no filter threads, but it is threaded on the outside of the lens barrel! I finally devised a solution - a 52mm-46mm step DOWN ring threads on upside-down, and then I superglued a 55-67mm step UP ring on that, which effectively gives me a 67mm thread that holds the filter right on top of the glass, so no vignetting. I guess I should post a thread w/ pictures because I'm sure that's confusing but it works better than any other solution I've tried and really enhances the usability of the lens.

[neil poulsen]

How about a 210mm Super Symmar XL and a 250mm Wide Field Ektar. Both have tons of movement for 8x10. The former is very expensive, but it meets your criteria.

[Leigh]

But this is what you posted.
"Its 352mm image circle exceeds that of the Apo-Sironar-S and -N, both 316mm."
And it is wrong.
Yes. The entry in my database was wrong. I corrected it.

Thanks for catching it.

- Leigh

[Eric Leppanen]

I don't understand your "live with the coverage" comment.

Its 352mm image circle exceeds that of the Apo-Sironar-S and -N, both 316mm.

The Apo-Sironar-W 210/5.6 will easily cover 8x10 with movements. I use mine as such.

- LeighThe 210 APO Sironar W has considerably less coverage than wide-angle designs such as the 210 Super Symmar XL, 200 Grandagon, etc., which have image circles in the neighborhood of 500mm.

Personally I found my Sironar W to have plenty of coverage for most landscape work, but for architecture I needed a larger coverage lens.

In my opinion neither the 210 APO Sironar-N nor 210 APO Sironar-S are usable on 8x10 as a practical matter. The Sironar-N does not cover the format. The Sironar-S covers "straight through" but supports no leeway for movements.

[Armin Seeholzer]

My Konica GRII 210 mm also covers the format easy!!

Cheers Armin

[Bob Salomon]

The 210 APO Sironar W has considerably less coverage than wide-angle designs such as the 210 Super Symmar XL, 200 Grandagon, etc., which have image circles in the neighborhood of 500mm.

Personally I found my Sironar W to have plenty of coverage for most landscape work, but for architecture I needed a larger coverage lens.

In my opinion neither the 210 APO Sironar-N nor 210 APO Sironar-S are usable on 8x10 as a practical matter. The Sironar-N does not cover the format. The Sironar-S covers "straight through" but supports no leeway for movements.

That also means that no center filter is needed since the W does not have the fall off of a wide angle design either.

[Lachlan 717]

My Konica GRII 210 mm also covers the format easy!!

Cheers Armin

Very difficult to shutter-mount these. Huge coverage, though (just shy of coving my 7x17").

[Armin Seeholzer]

Very difficult to shutter-mount these. Huge coverage, though (just shy of coving my 7x17").

I use it with the Sinar behind the lens shutter on my Sinars and on my Burke & James 8x10 thats how to do it!

Cheers Armin