Dark Slide: fully removed or partially in?

[StoneNYC]

Let's start with the fact that I'm relatively new to LF photography.

Purchased my equipment from various sellers, and for the most part it all seems really great shape. But after traveling and shooting in Maine and other places, I found that sometimes the negatives have some issues, and the only thing I can relate it to is some kind of light leak issue, most likely with the holders.

I have to shoot with a full dark sheet over the camera, but sometimes I don't like if I'm in the middle of the street and want to make sure I don't get run over by a car but I can't see. However that doesn't seem to make a difference in terms of any issues.

But I am thinking that the way that I remove my dark slide may come into it, I keep reading back-and-forth information about it so I'm asking you guys, is it okay to remove the Dark side fully, or do the felt insides sometimes wear out over time and is it best to leave it partially in the holder sticking out?

I would think that if you left it partially in, there's a chance the edges of the entrance could have light leak and could cause more problems, also in high wind situations that would cause the camera to have more vibration.

I noticed that my Polaroid back holders there is a white inked line to indicate where you should pull the Darkside out to and then leave it without fully removing it while still not interfering with the image. Which is what made me think that you should be leaving the Darkside partially in, in the first place, before that I thought you were always supposed to remove it fully

So what's the verdict? Thanks!

[Jerry Bodine]

Since you have to fully remove the darkslide in order to turn it around with the dark tab facing outward after the exposure, why not do that?

[Jim Graves]

Some more experienced hands will weigh in I'm sure ... but there are several things about dark slides and light leaks.

The problem I had when I first started was unintentionally pulling the holder away from the back slightly as I either pulled or replaced the dark slide ... this is a particular problem with older cameras where the spring backs are not quite as tight as they were when new.

I now routinely press against the back as I pull and replace the dark slide.

I ended up testing the light-tightness of the dark slide slots by putting the camera in a dark room with a fresh film in the holder, pulling the slide, shining a flashlight at the dark slide slot, replacing the dark slide ... and then developing the film to see if there was light coming through the slot.

You can also leave the dark cloth over the holder as you pull, expose, and replace the slide.

One issue with not completely pulling the slide is wind ... on windy days the unremoved slide can work like a sail and jostle the camera during the exposure.

[Harold_4074]

I used to routinely remove the dark slide completely and lay it across the top of the bellows (as a reminder to put it back in...) until a few bad experiences with either forgetting to re-insert it, or re-inserting without turning the dark side out, convinced me that the best way (at least when indoors) is to pull the slide, turn it around, and put it back in just past the light trap. If the holder is worn to the point where I no longer trust the light trap, or when working outdoors, I leave the slide out but pull is under the shadow of the focusing cloth and leave the cloth across the back of the camera until it is time to return the slide.

[Leigh]

I attach my dark cloth to the camera with clothes pins, and leave it in place throughout the shoot.

When the film holder is in, it's completely covered by the dark cloth, so no light leaks can happen.

- Leigh

[Daniel Stone]

Withdraw completely. I don't remove the holder from the camera until I've finished writing my exposure notes in my notebook.

I use a very lightweight, light-tight piece of rubberized nylon cloth as a darkcloth, and I leave it attached to the camera until I'm done shooting and want to move or pack it all down.

But film holder comes out after exposure notes have been made, not before.

cheers,
Dan

[Shawn Dougherty]

SLIGHTLY off topic... but knowing we have the same camera I would caution one other thing to watch for with film holders. Once you close the bail arm on the camera with a film holder inserted there will be a little bit of 'play' in the position of the holder itself. You can actually move the holder out (the direction you would use to remove it from the back) or in (the direction you would insert the holder from the back). For proper registration you want it 'in' as far as it will go (without any undue force of course). Try it, put a film holder in and then pull / push it. There should be about a 1/8 inch of play. I have made checking this a part of my "routine" when making exposures. If it's in the "out" position your composition will be off by the amount the holder is out of position. I wasted a couple sheets on this when I got my Toyo.

P.S. Of course you should ONLY be moving the holder around while the darkslide is still in the whole way.

[E. von Hoegh]

Let's start with the fact that I'm relatively new to LF photography.

Purchased my equipment from various sellers, and for the most part it all seems really great shape. But after traveling and shooting in Maine and other places, I found that sometimes the negatives have some issues, and the only thing I can relate it to is some kind of light leak issue, most likely with the holders.

I have to shoot with a full dark sheet over the camera, but sometimes I don't like if I'm in the middle of the street and want to make sure I don't get run over by a car but I can't see. However that doesn't seem to make a difference in terms of any issues.

But I am thinking that the way that I remove my dark slide may come into it, I keep reading back-and-forth information about it so I'm asking you guys, is it okay to remove the Dark side fully, or do the felt insides sometimes wear out over time and is it best to leave it partially in the holder sticking out?

I would think that if you left it partially in, there's a chance the edges of the entrance could have light leak and could cause more problems, also in high wind situations that would cause the camera to have more vibration.

I noticed that my Polaroid back holders there is a white inked line to indicate where you should pull the Darkside out to and then leave it without fully removing it while still not interfering with the image. Which is what made me think that you should be leaving the Darkside partially in, in the first place, before that I thought you were always supposed to remove it fully

So what's the verdict? Thanks!

Fully removed. for two reasons. 1) You're less likely to get lightleaks through the trap this way. 2) You won't have 20 square inches of someting sticking out to bump into and lift the holder off the back, ruining the film.

[Jody_S]

1) You're less likely to get lightleaks through the trap this way.

Speaking from experience, yes it's a bad idea to leave it in. You might get away with it a few times when your film holders are new.

[StoneNYC]

Thanks guys, fully out it is!

The reason I said that sometimes I don't put the dark cloth on in danger situations like I said in the middle of the street or something when I'm shooting and need to watch for cars, I have the black jacket instead of a regular dark cloth. You have to put yourself fully in it in order to use it, which makes it that much more difficult and dangerous to get out of fast in an emergency.

If clothes pins would actually clip anywhere on my camera that would be a great solution but it's all metal and there aren't many good spots to clip to, plus the black jacket seems a lot more light tight and the lens I have that is an F/8 is already hard to see on the GG.

And thanks for confirming the light tightness is better when the slide is fully removed.

And Shawn I always wondered if it mattered since I did notice the play in the back, thanks, fully in it is.

[ROL]

You have to put yourself fully in it in order to use it, which makes it that much more difficult and dangerous to get out of fast in an emergency.

Exactly! My mantra of life: You're either in or you're out ;). No half measures, gol durn it! All seriousness aside, my neon, electroluminescent photographer's cape, doubling as a focus cloth, announces clearly to all my intention and dedication to the craft. :eek:

[photobymike]

The light trap on holders can be compromised in several ways.
1 water..being soaked..actually met a guy who wanted me to buy some very clean holders...he washed them... no i did not buy.
2 wear.. i has seen holders so used they were literally falling apart in my hands.
3 the wrong dark slide...there are many brands and need to have the darkslides installed they came with.
4 holders are light tight but.... pull the slide just before you take a picture. Dont pull and just leave out
5 trying to disassemble... i have seen holders taken apart... there are relatively cheap... got a bad one throw it out and i will send you another..< joking

i have used a lot of holders in my days 47 years ..i have never used a bad holder. With the cost of film these days i inspect holders very carefully. When i see them and pitched them. Film these days cost more than the holders sometimes...
Before loading my holders i blow out with compressed air .... but not in the light trap...an careful not to blow dust or debris into the light trap. Leaving the slide in just gives extra leverage to bump and unseat the holder letting light in.....

[Jerry Bodine]

I have to shoot with a full dark sheet over the camera, but sometimes I don't like if I'm in the middle of the street and want to make sure I don't get run over by a car but I can't see.

Shoot from the curb and use shift. Or do it with a p&s digi-snapper. ;) ;) ;)

[StoneNYC]

The light trap on holders can be compromised in several ways.
1 water..being soaked..actually met a guy who wanted me to buy some very clean holders...he washed them... no i did not buy.
2 wear.. i has seen holders so used they were literally falling apart in my hands.
3 the wrong dark slide...there are many brands and need to have the darkslides installed they came with.
4 holders are light tight but.... pull the slide just before you take a picture. Dont pull and just leave out
5 trying to disassemble... i have seen holders taken apart... there are relatively cheap... got a bad one throw it out and i will send you another..< joking

i have used a lot of holders in my days 47 years ..i have never used a bad holder. With the cost of film these days i inspect holders very carefully. When i see them and pitched them. Film these days cost more than the holders sometimes...
Before loading my holders i blow out with compressed air .... but not in the light trap...an careful not to blow dust or debris into the light trap. Leaving the slide in just gives extra leverage to bump and unseat the holder letting light in.....

How do you inspect the holders? What is your procedure?

I got an old graflock film pack (quickload) and wanted to use it, a friend had the holder in his grandfathers moldy house, so I washed the holder and soaked it in a water/bleach solution overnight and then left it in the sun for 3 days to kill and mold spores. The thing is mostly black iodized brass/copper? Or something like that, so I wasn't too concerned, but I'm overly cautious with mold. Anyway, does this mean I probably ruined the light trap?

The film is probably already fogged, just wondering, the holder is like 50-60 years old lol

[photobymike]

if it is only one holder test it.... yea washing can ruin the light trap.... on the other hand let look around the house i may have a new Kodak Quickload i will send it you for the postage. but let me find it first....

Inspecting the holder?.... look for cracks, signs of abuse, drop damage, Large scratches or scuffs on the darkslide, look for wear on the end that opens, in general if it does not look nice ...pitch it.... Quick load holders are really cheap now .... when in doubt throw it out

[Ken Lee]

I've only seen people leave it in the camera in fictional movies.

[jnantz]

I've only seen people leave it in the camera in fictional movies.

hi ken

i used to think that too, but i know someone who regularly left the dark slide in the holder ..
he never really pulled it out enough and the side of his image was always clipped ...
i'd never leave the darkslide in, mainly because i am too forgetful to remember which
film was shot and which film was still available ... i don't write notes or use the locks
so it is just the dark/exposed side of the darkslide that tells me "use a different holder, im used"..

[Mark Sawyer]

Pull it out all the way and use it as a hand-held lens shade! (One of the oldest tricks...)

[StoneNYC]

if it is only one holder test it.... yea washing can ruin the light trap.... on the other hand let look around the house i may have a new Kodak Quickload i will send it you for the postage. but let me find it first....

Inspecting the holder?.... look for cracks, signs of abuse, drop damage, Large scratches or scuffs on the darkslide, look for wear on the end that opens, in general if it does not look nice ...pitch it.... Quick load holders are really cheap now .... when in doubt throw it out

Thanks!

But understand this is the GRAFLEX readloads (I think I used the wrong term before, sorry), they hold like 20 sheets in a pack, not the Kodak quick loads.

It kinda looks like this...

http://lommen9.home.xs4all.nl/holders/P1020458_300.jpg

[Shawn Dougherty]

Thanks!

But understand this is the GRAFLEX readloads (I think I used the wrong term before, sorry), they hold like 20 sheets in a pack, not the Kodak quick loads.

It kinda looks like this...

http://lommen9.home.xs4all.nl/holders/P1020458_300.jpg

Those are really nice if they still have good septums. Some people swear by them. They hold 6 sheets by the way.

[John Kasaian]

I pull the slide out all the way and leave the dark cloth hanging over the back of the camera as insurance. I'll also use the dark slide to shield the lens from direct sunlight. I've also been known to use vodka for lens cleaning fluid.
Got to love that multi tasking!:rolleyes:

[Alan Gales]

I pull the slide out all the way and leave the dark cloth hanging over the back of the camera as insurance. I'll also use the dark slide to shield the lens from direct sunlight. I've also been known to use vodka for lens cleaning fluid.
Got to love that multi tasking!:rolleyes:

John, have you ever got mixed up and made your Vodka Martini with lens cleaning fluid?

[Alan Gales]

I use my dark slide as a lens shade as well.

[photobymike]

Thanks!

But understand this is the GRAFLEX readloads (I think I used the wrong term before, sorry), they hold like 20 sheets in a pack, not the Kodak quick loads.

It kinda looks like this...

http://lommen9.home.xs4all.nl/holders/P1020458_300.jpg
jeez good luck finding film ...i am looking at making ..there called pack adapters... into a wet plate adapter... i have 10 of those... i even have one new in the box.... i will send you one of those for free also ..just for the postage..... the only thing i can think of they are good for now is converting to a wet plate adapter i have made several for friends ....

no no no correction correction i just saw the picture... that is a Grafmatic 1268.... you will like this if you get it working.... six sheets of 4x5 in one holder.... i use these for weddings ..i have 8 of them that i use all the time... yes clean test and use.... go to Graflex.org for instructions...if you dont use right you can mess it up big time... bend the septums... <<the metal sheets that hold the film....

[E. von Hoegh]

Thanks!

But understand this is the GRAFLEX readloads (I think I used the wrong term before, sorry), they hold like 20 sheets in a pack, not the Kodak quick loads.

It kinda looks like this...

http://lommen9.home.xs4all.nl/holders/P1020458_300.jpg

That is a Grafmatic, not a readyload and not a filmpack adapter. It holds six sheets in metal septa. You load the septa, then load them into the Grafmatic. If you do this properly, and the septa are flat, and you know how to use a Grafmatic, they are great, I use one hiking quite a bit.

[StoneNYC]

Those are really nice if they still have a good septum. Some people swear by them. They hold 6 sheets by the way.

This one holds six, the one I have and the packs I have are 16 and 20 sheets.

[StoneNYC]

John, have you ever got mixed up and made your Vodka Martini with lens cleaning fluid?

Or use the lens as your drinking glass?

[photobymike]

I just bought one that is 50 years old new still in the box.... i am so excited i have never seen one of these new..... i use mine so much that i have just sold the majority of my 2 sheet holders...

[E. von Hoegh]

This one holds six, the one I have and the packs I have are 16 and 20 sheets.

Those are filmpacks, they're ancient history as far as production goes. The film was thinner, too, and could come out of the grooves in processing tanks. But they were handy!

[StoneNYC]

jeez good luck finding film ...i am looking at making ..there called pack adapters... into a wet plate adapter... i have 10 of those... i even have one new in the box.... i will send you one of those for free also ..just for the postage..... the only thing i can think of they are good for now is converting to a wet plate adapter i have made several for friends ....

no no no correction correction i just saw the picture... that is a Grafmatic 1268.... you will like this if you get it working.... six sheets of 4x5 in one holder.... i use these for weddings ..i have 8 of them that i use all the time... yes clean test and use.... go to Graflex.org for instructions...if you dont use right you can mess it up big time... bend the septums... <<the metal sheets that hold the film....

Thanks Mike and thanks E. Von!

You guys cleared up some things for me, the one I have is NOT the one pictured but the back looked the same, the one I have holds the film packs. That hold 16 or 20 sheets, and I only have 2 packs, after that, it will be useless.

I would love to have one of the re-loadable 6 sheet holder versions, so yes I'll take one if you have extras of those!

I'll also take a converted wet plate version too!

PM me and let me know if you're willing to do the conversion for me? And how much, and I'll certainly take one of the re-loadable ones for free + shipping :)

[E. von Hoegh]

Thanks Mike and thanks E. Von!

You guys cleared up some things for me, the one I have is NOT the one pictured but the back looked the same, the one I have holds the film packs. That hold 16 or 20 sheets, and I only have 2 packs, after that, it will be useless.

I would love to have one of the re-loadable 6 sheet holder versions, so yes I'll take one if you have extras of those!

I'll also take a converted wet plate version too!

PM me and let me know if you're willing to do the conversion for me? And how much, and I'll certainly take one of the re-loadable ones for free + shipping :)

If you get a Grafmatic, be advised that they are neither simple nor intuitive to use, and it's very easy to bend the septa thus rendering them useless except as bookmarks. Read the instructions and go slowly. But once you become familiar with it, why, you'll be able to use one in the dark!

[photobymike]

i just received as i was typing..new but 45 years old a Singer Grafmatic 1268 so cool!!!
i was 16 years old when this was made
.i will send you a pack adapter for free but not a grafmatic...LOL worth about 80 to 150 bucks....and i need all i have....

103517

[photobymike]

If you get a Grafmatic, be advised that they are neither simple nor intuitive to use, and it's very easy to bend the septa thus rendering them useless except as bookmarks. Read the instructions and go slowly. But once you become familiar with it, why, you'll be able to use one in the dark!

he is exactly right ..you can really mess one up ...when loading remember to push the back in the load position

http://graflex.org/speed-graphic/grafmatic/

[StoneNYC]

he is exactly right ..you can really mess one up ...when loading remember to push the back in the load position

http://graflex.org/speed-graphic/grafmatic/

Oh! Well I want this, very handy!

Takes up less space, however I bet they are heavier than 6 plastic holders hah!

[photobymike]

no not really. when you used to using them you cant go back I still use double holders in studio but out and about Grafmatic

[E. von Hoegh]

Oh! Well I want this, very handy!

Takes up less space, however I bet they are heavier than 6 plastic holders hah!

They are not. Six plastic holders contain twelve sheets BTW. They also take up less room. But heed the warnings or you'll end up cursing it (or if you are a clear minded thinker, yourself).

[John Kasaian]

John, have you ever got mixed up and made your Vodka Martini with lens cleaning fluid?
Since I developed a penchant for Gray Goose I can't see using it as "lens cleaning fluid" anymore.
Vodka martinis? Never. Those are for wannabe British spies.

[E. von Hoegh]

Since I developed a penchant for Gray Goose I can't see using it as "lens cleaning fluid" anymore.
Vodka martinis? Never. Those are for wannabe British spies.

I'm not really a Vodka fan, but I discovered that you can but the cheapest rotgut from under the counter, pour it through a charcoal filter, and wind up with something indistiguishable from the really pricey top-shelf stuff.

[E. von Hoegh]

i just received as i was typing..new but 45 years old a Singer Grafmatic 1268 so cool!!!
i was 16 years old when this was made
.i will send you a pack adapter for free but not a grafmatic...LOL worth about 80 to 150 bucks....and i need all i have....

103517
Mine is a 1268. I wish I'd bought a few of them when they were $25.

[DannL]

In the past and weather permitting (low wind conditions) I would leave the dark slide daggling in the holder when using 8x10 and 5x7. Else, I would remove the dark slide and try to shield the slot with the focusing cloth. These days I just remove the dark slide and cover the slot. Of course the book form plate holders I use (5x4 and half-plate) will not allow the dark slide to be removed.

[photobymike]

Since I developed a penchant for Gray Goose I can't see using it as "lens cleaning fluid" anymore.
Vodka martinis? Never. Those are for wannabe British spies.

I use Jamaican overproof rum.... You can dip wet film in it for a fast dry... yea it is an expensive cleaning fluid ..... i even used it to prime the carburetor on a car that would not start...... my wife makes a killer cake out of it also..... good in shot glasses ...

I think when the 1268 Graflex holder gets older they will get like chicken lips and hard to find.... i am buying these instead of gold or silver

[Michael Cienfuegos]

John, have you ever got mixed up and made your Vodka Martini with lens cleaning fluid?

That's why I use Bombay Sapphire! :o

m

[John Kasaian]

That's why I use Bombay Sapphire! :o

m

Excellent taste, good sir!

[Jim Graves]

Using Bombay or any other quality gin to clean a shutter is nothing short of alcohol abuse!

[StoneNYC]

Using Bombay or any other quality gin to clean a shutter is nothing short of alcohol abuse!

I think abuse would be using some Talisker ... Gin is for fancy boys, Scotch Whiskey is for real Men ;)

What if you held the shutter above you and poured it over the shutter and then into your mouth, would that be acceptable recycling? Lol

[photobymike]

WOW this conversation degenerated fast ..... you all are just a bunch of "old alcoholic degenerate photographers" LOL LOL

[E. von Hoegh]

WOW this conversation degenerated fast ..... you all are just a bunch of "old alcoholic degenerate photographers" LOL LOL

But our lenses are clean.

[StoneNYC]

WOW this conversation degenerated fast ..... you all are just a bunch of "old alcoholic degenerate photographers" LOL LOL

I just turned 31... I hope I'm not old... Lol

Also just something to note, as the OP, I have basically gotten the answer I need, so anyone who's worried that were off-topic or anything like that don't worry keep drinking... everything is fine...

Also, I'm mostly a fancy pants wine drinker, some Cabernet Sauvignon or nice Carménère is more my taste ;) but I wouldn't pour that on my equipment. Lol!

[Joseph O'Neil]

It really has degenerated. shame on on all of you. The guy has a serious question.

I always take my dark slide fully out. Used to leave it in, but one day the wind caught it and blew it off the bridge I was standing on into the river below. So i always take it out not.

As for dark cloth, a heavy towel can work fine, and so does a clothespin to hold things in place.

As for cleaning off the dark slide after I recovered it from the river, plain old Crown Royal rye works best. Scotch, Cabernet Sauvignon, gin, rum - what a bunch of uneducated heathens!
:)

[StoneNYC]

It really has degenerated. shame on on all of you. The guy has a serious question.

I always take my dark slide fully out. Used to leave it in, but one day the wind caught it and blew it off the bridge I was standing on into the river below. So i always take it out not.

As for dark cloth, a heavy towel can work fine, and so does a clothespin to hold things in place.

As for cleaning off the dark slide after I recovered it from the river, plain old Crown Royal rye works best. Scotch, Cabernet Sauvignon, gin, rum - what a bunch of uneducated heathens!
:)

Retrieving that dark slide must have been a ROYAL pain... ;)

[AtlantaTerry]

Out.

Because you have to flip it to the dark side at some point. The nice thing about being fully out is you are not likely to simply slide it back in and later make a double exposure.