When to Sell Lenses [Archive] - Large Format Photography Forum

Brassai

5-Oct-2013, 12:48

I'll start off by saying I'm not really a collector. I'm just a guy who gets a huge thrill out of actually using something from a distant age to take photos with in the present world. It gives me a sense of connection with those in the past, a feeling of "continuity" in the flow of time. Someone owned and enjoyed the lens in the 1860s, then someone else around 1900, someone else in the 1950s, and now me. And then it will be someone else's turn. I like finely made old things, and am a natural pack rat. I find that camera gear seems to accumlate in my closet like snow! My philosophy is if I haven't used something at least once in two years, I should sell it. Another philosophy is to acquire nice things and then sell them to buy something even nicer. :)

I have a pretty nice little collection of about five pre-Civil War Petzvals, all work on 4x5. Do I need five of these? No. I'm thinking that in the months ahead I should sell some of these and put the money into something I will use more often. I will keep my best lens from that period, but just don't need or use five. (Or is it six?) SO, while I hate to see my pets go, I'm a practical Midwestern guy. I'm not using all of them and it's tying up money better used on something else. My question is, when is the best time of year to sell something like this? Ebay seems a bit slow right now. It might pick up in November with people looking for gifts, but really how many gift buyers would venture into something so specialized? There's a flurry in January, and then prices really drop in February until the weather warms up in late April. Should I wait until then to sell a few things off? I could sell a few here on the B&S board and not have to deal with the fickleness of ebay, or the high fees of Westlicht. I can wait; I have no immediate need for the cash, and the money will just go back into vintage photo gear.

John Powers

5-Oct-2013, 14:18

but really how many gift buyers would venture into something so specialized? .

The other day, the wonderful girl I married 22 years ago asked, " Is there anything you need for Christmas, a power tool or something for the LF cameras?" She wouldn't know a Dagor from a Petzval, but she has gotten very good at clicking on links. Two months ago after I had done the research, she clicked on a Nikon D7100 at B&H so I could take a college course in Digital photography. After watching our parents let their brains disintegrate as they aged, she likes that at 73 I want to keep on learning.

In my opinion, gift buyers want to make the recipient happy, while keeping them away from danger or things that will damage the relationship.

John

5-Oct-2013, 15:02

If you're in no hurry, put some nice pix of the lens and images you've made with it and a buy it now price on Ebay.

Or make a whole bunch of nice LF images with it, posting one a week on here, then put the lens up for sale. Someone looking for a magic bullet might buy it seeking similar results.

I'd think tax refund season would be a nice time to sell stuff like this. But I'm not great at selling.

If it's a peztval, perhaps wait till the lomo petzval mania peaks this winter with the release of their 35mm lens.

Steven Tribe

5-Oct-2013, 15:10

I am completely convinced that the "profit maximisation" place to sell is the dreaded bay. Only a very few real auctions approach the level of bidding that E**y does. Obviously, we all want our equipment to go to good homes, preferably to be used, at least occasionally. I can also see the interest in keeping tabs on previously owned lenses - now under new ownership. Especialy for genuinely early American-made objectives which have a cultural interest for so many active LF practioneers. But the chances of disappearing for ever to a far away land with language barriers is just as great in the For Sale section here as it is with E**y. Certainly for "famous" lenses which a recent "Wanted" poster came to write rather than the, more acceptible, "Universally Recognised".

If there are apparent "ups and downs" in bids for similar items, it is more a question of bad/insufficient photos, non-comprensive description. The soft focus sales list for the more commonly sort-after items shows quite consistent prices for E**y items of matching condition. Even when there was a deluge of L'eidoscopes this year, the winning bids were quite firm. It is more "comparible" no-name items which appear to fluctuate dramatically when listers are unable to describe the lens.

I personally only use the F/S section here for items which I would like others to have and use, without any "black book" check to see how much I paid for them. Payment is basically covering my costs and, if it was part of a lot, then it is a token contribution to the item I was really interested in. I have enormous difficulty in putting fixed prices on things and have my own internal valuation of the usefulness and uniqueness of the lens - but also based also on the skills, workmanship and time it took to make them. So, no BIT or reserve prices on the lenses I list.

IanG

5-Oct-2013, 15:30

Steven makes a good point about sales here. I see items listed and when not sold in a day the seller drops the price, and often more than once. We area small community so patience is required, I listed something, no bites but waited and sold for my asking price months later with no bumping.

I would add that good honest listing sells an item, so if it's an un-named lens it's got to be sold as such. and images made with the lenses might be useful.

As with any sale or auction a lot depends who's looking to buy at the particular time and regardless of how good an item and description etc that part is random

Ian

goamules

5-Oct-2013, 18:28

There are several corollaries for selling lenses:

Risk vs Profit - if you are willing to sell on Ebay, you will make the most money. But you also have very little protection from bad buyers. There is a chance of fraudulent damage claims, or fraudulent claims of non receipt. If that happens, ebay will side with the buyer, and sometimes sucks a refund out of your accounts without you being able to stop them. Then they'll leave you high and dry to try to recover your lens. They don't monitor or care about that part. So you may "sell" a valuable lens to a buyer in Outer Mongolia or Tibet for the highest price, but hang on for a 45 day (or longer) ride to find out if it really "sold."

Time vs Profit - if you want the maximum for your lens, be prepared to wait. Sometimes you have to wait months or years for the right buyer, that wants that exact lens, in that focal length, from that maker. If you are in a hurry, you get paid the amount that someone wants to pay, that day. When I sell a lens, I want it gone, so I usually price between 75-85% of the going rate. 95% of my lenses sell within one week. Could I make more if I put a super high price, and waited months or years? Sure, some sellers do it that way.

Tim Meisburger

5-Oct-2013, 20:14

Interesting topic for me, since I have two lens on sale now. I'm the one that keeps dropping prices. I'm a conflicted seller. For example the soft focus lens I'm selling is really beautiful, and very rare, so I don't really want to sell it, but I want an Ebony 4x5, and I have three other soft focus lenses of similar focal length, so I should sell it. What to do?

I would be happy to sell the lens for fair market value, but it is so rare that seems impossible to establish. I could humbly ask the forum to help me value it, but then all the snarky guys will say sell it on ebay. The strategy I adopted we used to call a Dutch auction (I don't know why), where you start high and drop the price every day until someone pulls the trigger. Maybe that is a stupid strategy...

Brassai

5-Oct-2013, 21:26

I had not thought of the risks on ebay, as generally I am only buying. That gives me real pause, to be sure. I'm smart enough to not sell something to someone in Nigeria etc., but on international sales I could easily get stuck. There are excellent buyers out there, though. Many have taken a chance and sold to me I suppose. I'm still wondering if sales on this sort of stuff could be slow until January, when people get year end bonuses or gift money. Yes, people do buy photo gear for gifts, but something like a Petzval is very esoteric and requires a lot of specialized knowledge, unlike something like a Nikon D7100.

I also wonder just how large the market is for this sort of thing. The lenses I have (with one exception) would almost have to be used on a LF camera, and probably only 4x5 at that. How many people are out there who shoot LF in the first place, and then have interest in something as awkward to use as a shutterless lens? There's always the reenactment crowd, and the wet plate guys. That's a pretty narrow niche though. Still, I suppose there were enough people bidding against me when I bought the lenses in the first place! I do like the idea of taking some shots with the lenses, to show it works and to show how well it covers 4x5. I have no problem doing that--I like to use them! I'm not looking for maximum $$ either, just a fair return. I don't want to end up selling something for $200 that I paid $800 for. If I price things fairly and am patient, this might be as good a place as any to sell. I'm in no hurry, but I would like to get the money out of them and buy something else in a timely manner. As for the Lomo Petzvals, I don't see those as a factor. They are designed to go on a DSLR. LF is a totally different animal. I do have one 1870s vintage Darlot that could be mounted on a DSLR via a SK Grimes adapater. I have a small Petzval that I've already done that to and love it! I see the Lomo Petzvals going for $800. I didn't pay anywhere near that for the Petzval I had put into an F-mount. Maybe I should look into F-mounting my two smaller Petzvals and then try selling them, or doing a Hassleblad mount.

eddie

6-Oct-2013, 05:08

Interesting topic for me, since I have two lens on sale now. I'm the one that keeps dropping prices. I'm a conflicted seller. For example the soft focus lens I'm selling is really beautiful, and very rare,

if you want/need to sell a lens and it is not selling the only real recourse is to drop the price. if you do not want/need to sell a lens you can keep your price the same until someone buys it, possibly years in the future. this is what i think the e bay guy "go kenvins" does he prices his stuff so high that eventually, years down the road the prices are "normal"

as for your "very rare" lens.....that sometimes leaves a bit of a pricing problem. while you may think cause it is rare people will pay for it, that may not be the case. the antique lens market is being propelled by users. these users are buy lenses that they want....the famous brands. dallmeyer 3B to name a specific. if you had one of them it would have sold already.

now, back to your lens. you have a lens you say "has very limited info" so how are people to know that it is in fact rare and desirable? no one has told them that except you.
you have said it was similar to a cooke SF lens. one small problem is that a cooke SF knuckler lens that is 10 inch f3.5 is worth lens than $1000.......IMO this is where your problem is....that and the fact there is "no one" out there saying your lens is odd, rare, desirable, collectible, or "the best lens for wet plate collodion" ever made.

anyway, to the OP. if you dont need to sell the lenses dont bother. if you want the most for them, put them on e bay. if you want to sell them here list them with a price and some photos. in my opinion the OP has made this post just to get offers on his stuff. i am sure a bunch of people PM'd him to buy the lenses......he is just fishing for pricing ideas.....IMO.

Brassai

6-Oct-2013, 08:22

anyway, to the OP. if you dont need to sell the lenses dont bother. if you want the most for them, put them on e bay. if you want to sell them here list them with a price and some photos. in my opinion the OP has made this post just to get offers on his stuff. i am sure a bunch of people PM'd him to buy the lenses......he is just fishing for pricing ideas.....IMO.

Well, that's not true. I know what I paid in a competitive environment within the past two years, so I already have an idea. Since I have never sold anything like this before I was needing timing information more than pricing. As for "fishing," I still haven't decided which to sell exactly. I just know I have too many to use and need to thin the herd. I hate having thousands tied up in something I'm not using, while there are things out there I would like to buy and try.

Steven Tribe

6-Oct-2013, 09:07

"you have said it was similar to a cooke SF lens. one small problem is that a cooke SF knuckler lens that is 10 inch f3.5 is worth lens than $1000"

That's not what recent statistics about 10.5" series II sales say, Eddie. You can find a few that went under that figure - but I am sure there was a good reason. The Cooke series IIa F3.5 (which is the comparable lens to Tim's) is much rarer (only one on the list), went for quite a lot over $1,000 and I don't think there are any coated Cooke series IIa's. The F3.5 cost 55% more than the F4.5 Cooke when they on sale here new long, long ago.

Brassai

6-Oct-2013, 11:59

After some more digging, it's starting to look like these sorts of lenses sell for about the same price most times of the year and values have been fairly steady over the four years. February is still the weakest time to sell them, I think. All of mine are in that 4-8 inch slot, limiting the format they can be used on. It looks like when you start talking about lenses for 8x10 that prices begin to shoot up! I also looked at sliding box cameras and early cameras with bellows. I'd like to get one and have a few custom holders made for 4x5 film. The price of the cameras seem to start around $2,000 though! I guess considering that new Nikon lenses cost about that now, :( maybe $2k isn't so much any more.

goamules

6-Oct-2013, 12:40

You can get into LF quite a bit more cheaply. I was just at a Flea Market and there was an ANSCO 5x7, with a 4x5 back, Commercial Ektar and a dozen holders, and a wooden crank tripod. I passed on it for $300.

eddie

6-Oct-2013, 14:01

Tim Meisburger

6-Oct-2013, 17:12

Thanks Eddie (I do have a 3B, but that is not for sale), but how do I know the price. I could put it on ebay, but as you rightly point out no one has ever heard of it, so it could sell for considerably less than its value to me. Some have mentioned I need to demonstrate its capabilities, and now that I have a big studio camera with a honking big packard on it I might be able to do that (when I get my new bellows). I admit it, I suck at selling. I'm only good at buying, and then only when my wife lets me...

Brassai, as long as your lens has rack and pinion focusing, a sliding box camera would be an easy option. I was thinking of making one in mahogany before I got involved in all this selling and buying (I'm also selling two cameras, but have not listed them here yet as I am trying to sell locally), and guess I will eventually return to that project. Otherwise, you can pick up a 4x5 for as little as $100 bucks on ebay, a good monorail from $300 to $500 and a good wooden field camera for between $500 and $900.

Brassai

6-Oct-2013, 19:16

Brassai, as long as your lens has rack and pinion focusing, a sliding box camera would be an easy option. I was thinking of making one in mahogany before I got involved in all this selling and buying (I'm also selling two cameras, but have not listed them here yet as I am trying to sell locally), and guess I will eventually return to that project. Otherwise, you can pick up a 4x5 for as little as $100 bucks on ebay, a good monorail from $300 to $500 and a good wooden field camera for between $500 and $900.

I've been shooting 4x5 for about 15 years now. My first was a cambo NX45, then a Shen Hao, now a Chamonix 045n. I also shoot 4x5 sheets in a Watson & Son half plate tailboard. Hmmm. Come to think of it, I'm only using the Chamonix any more. I should probably sell the the other three cameras too! With the money out of things I'm not using I could buy a nice sliding box camera.

Tim Meisburger

6-Oct-2013, 20:03

Okay. Longer than me! Sorry about that, I must have misunderstood...

dap

6-Oct-2013, 22:09

As Eddie has said - if you want to find out what the lens is worth put it on ebay as an international auction. If you can't stomach a potential loss slap it up there as a BIN w/ best offer option (this will save you from a disaster, but you might have to wait a long time for it to sell and you will lose out on any potential suprise bidding war).

As far as selling on this forum is concerned, you are better off setting your price from the get go at your rock bottom. I've sold some stuff on here and have noticed that your best chance of selling is right out of the gate - if you start high and chip away at the price over time people lose interest. The members here are pretty savvy - they will wait for a solid value ( if you offer one it will move). If it doesn't move it is either because your item isn't as desirable as you thought or your price is way off.

If you think, in retrospect, that you overpaid...keep it or just suck it up and take a loss and move on (I myself always make it a point to buy high and sell low :(.)

Drew Bedo

7-Oct-2013, 05:23

When it comes to these older items, I feel that we should not look at ourselves as "owners" but rather as care takers, or stewards who areonly holding them for the next generation. While wood and leather are fragile, glass and brass can last as long as the pyramids.
I have a Kodak 2D that I use, but it has no front movement (except rise-fall.) There is a great looking 2D on the 'Bay right now with extras and accessories etc. It has been beautifully refinished and converted to full movements. So now it is a good looking user (and I do wish I could buy it) . . .but it is no longer an as-made Eastman View #2-D. I refuse to have the front standard on “my” camera nodified for this reason.
We are curators.
Drew Bedo
www.quietlightphoto.com

Michael Graves

7-Oct-2013, 08:32

...but really how many gift buyers would venture into something so specialized? ...

Depends on the buyer. My wife really doesn't know vintage gear as well as I do. But last Christmas, she found a mint Nikon F Photomic with a 135mm Nikkor lens. They'll do it if they have a bit of self-confidence. I can't see my daughter trying that though. Although I could be surprised.

DrTang

7-Oct-2013, 09:20

sell lenses???

Craziness!!

keep them until you die, then your relatives can sell them at a garage sale for fifty bucks a shot

that's how it works..right?

Steven Tribe

7-Oct-2013, 09:55

"uuummm? define quite alot over $1k? 1200? 1500? just saying.

so, what is your theory why the "dallmeyer copy of the cooke" has not sold for the asking price?.....or the lowered price? i gave you my opinion......"

Sorry for the delay, Eddie - have been abroad. If you can call Sweden abroad.

Yes, 1200 and 1400 sound about right at the moment for the 5x7" 10.5" .

I have never quite understood the need for running reductions everyday. I know all about the theory of Dutch auctions but to me, anyway, it reduces confidence in the product.

As far as Tim's rare Dallmeyer fast "Cooke" goes, it suffers from its rarity in comparison the quantity of Cooke lenses. It is easier/more hip to say "Yes, I have knuckler version, too" rather than "No, I don't have the knuckler, but I have the faster version made by Dallmeyer in small numbers".

An example:

Someone contacted me to-day about his puzzling Hermagis purchase. It turns out to be Hermagis' late version of the Harrison Globe with the 3 built-in apertures operated by turning barrel. Never seen one before - but it is in Agostino's book. This one is one serial number away from the illustrated one!

Rarer than the Harrison Globe - probably.
Better made than the Harrison Globe - certainly!
More valuable than the Harrison Globe - unlikely.

eddie

7-Oct-2013, 10:49

It turns out to be Hermagis' late version of the Harrison Globe with the 3 built-in apertures operated by turning barrel. Never seen one before - but it is in Agostino's book. This one is one serial number away from the illustrated one!

awesome! i want it.....:) and the illustration!....:)

Steven Tribe

7-Oct-2013, 12:16

Now is the time to order Agostino's book, which in spite of editing (or lack of it) is a very good source. Christmas present from a happy customer, perhaps?

The new "Globe" is just as nice.
Looks like a big aplanat from the side. Then the lens "attributes" bulge forward and the barrel has 1, 2 and 3 engraved on the side.
A development for the "3 lever" wide angle from Darlot.

He has just mentioned that it was bought on E**y very recently and he has just received it!
Well, that's one we all missed. He was the only bidder!
As I said, from the side it looks like an ordinary Hermagis Aplanat!

This is getting very off topic.