Vintage Wide Lens for 4x5

[Brassai]

At one time, I had a c.1906 DAGOR 3 5/8" lens in Compound. Now, I can't find it! I have no idea what I did with it. I've been going through my stuff; maybe it will turn up. Meanwhile, I have started looking for another wide angle for my 4x5. I've been using a c.1912 Heliar 15cm, and love that lens! I also have a c.1910 CZJ Tessar 165mm in Compound, and a 12" Wollensak Velostigmat in Betax. I like the soft look I get from all of these. I'm now thinking of adding an uncoated, pre-war (preferably pre-WW1 even) wide angle to cover 4x5, something in the 100-125mm range maybe. I really like the Velostigmat and know they make a 127mm that (barely) covers 4x5, but it's maybe not quite wide enough. I've seen 105mm Heliars, but know those are for 6x9. What else is out there? Maybe another DAGOR 3 5/8?

[Jon Shiu]

Hi, look for a Velostigmat Series III, 5x7

Jon

[Andrew]

how about the Meyer-Goerlitz Aristostigmat 12cm F9 ?
they came in barrel or mounted in shutter and there's even a couple on evil bay at the moment
I have one that came in brass barrel and I found the cells were correct thread to just drop in a dial set compur shutter I had spare
should cover 4x5 with generous movement and I think reasonably sharp by old lens standards

or get another dagor if you really liked the old one

[Steven Tribe]

Another option is the Berthiot Perigraphe series VIa* which are an underrated (i.e. cheaper!) very wide angle F14. The 90mm covers well. Advantage is size - disadvantage is the cells are so close toether that a shutter is not possible. Most other EWA, like the Goerz Lynkeioskop series E and F, have become expensive.
There are quite a lot of the 90mm Dagors or series III out there as they were popular as the better choice for 9x12cm German folders. They appear to have reached a stable/sensible price level - they were made in the tens of thousands.

*corrected from series IV - Sorry, I had just sent a mail to someone about a series IV Euryskop. Yes, series VI a - the 9cm is no. 2. Numbers may have changed during the long production run.

[Dan Fromm]

Ser VIa, Steven, not Ser IV. See http://www.collection-appareils.fr/accesnotices/html/lire_repertoire?repert=som_berthiot&marque=Som%20berthiot&modele=Catalogue&PHPSESSID=333965b3c0b5e4652c9d3802b532215d The 90/14 is an easy front mount, it can be stuffed into the front of an Ilex #3. These lenses were made into the early 1950s.

The Perigraphe Ser VIb is a Dagor clone, as is the Boyer Beryl.

However, none of these lenses will give the "vintage" look that the OP wants and neither will 4/4 double Gauss types like the Aristostigmat mentioned earlier in this thread.

[Brassai]

Using suggestions above, I did some more digging. The 127mm Velostigmat gives a gorgeous look, but I just don't think there's enough difference between 127mm and my 150mm Heliar. Apparently the Dagor was one of the first really successful wide angle lenses and that's why they are relatively plentiful. I've had great luck with the Compur/Compound shutters they usually come in, too. I think I'll go ahead a buy something like a ~100mm Dagor. If I eventually find my other one, I'll just sell one of the two.

When I first got into 4x5 about 15 years ago, I was using only modern lenses and shooting E6. Mostly, I photo'd landscapes. Then, digital came along and I put aside the 4x5 from 2005 to 2010. The Nikon DSLRs are very fast to use, and convenient. About 2010 I started getting interested in vintage cameras, and then started buying vintage lenses for my 4x5. Mostly I bought pre-Civil War lenses and also those made around 1910. I just love the soft look! I only shoot b&w now, usually Efke 25, FP4, or HP5. What I've come to really like about 4x5 is the variety of lenses I can use, from different periods. At a time when virtually everyone else is shooting a DSLR, my shots have a very unique look. I think a line up of Dagor 10cm, Heliar 15cm, and Velostigmat 300mm will give me a great selection. I only want to add something around 210mm to complete the set. Maybe a Heliar, maybe a CJZ Tessar. I love the classics from 1900 to 1929!

I've been going to the steam threshing shows in my region for the past three years, shooting the classic scenes with vintage cameras/lenses. Here's one I did two weeks ago using the 15cm Heliar on the Chamonix 045n:

[pasiasty]

Why not a bit younger and wider Angulon 90/6.8? It (barely) covers 4x5, fits into a pocket (depending on the lens-board and the pocket) and is quite decent. Usually sells about $60-200, depending on a shutter and a lens-board, I got mine as 'free' bonus to the camera (however, currently some Korean seller is listing it at - tadam, tadam - $700)

[Toyon]

Skip the 90 Angulon, they really don't have sufficient coverage for 4x5. The Velostigmat series III are magnets for flare. Look for a 120-125 Dagor. Wide angle, but without the wide angle look, very little flare, nice out-of-focus feel, and reliable in a Compur. One other possibility is an wide-angle Darlot. However, these are barrel lenses. But they are wonderfully sharp.

[Jim Noel]

Skip the 90 Angulon, they really don't have sufficient coverage for 4x5. The Velostigmat series III are magnets for flare. Look for a 120-125 Dagor. Wide angle, but without the wide angle look, very little flare, nice out-of-focus feel, and reliable in a Compur. One other possibility is an wide-angle Darlot. However, these are barrel lenses. But they are wonderfully sharp.
I have carried a 90mm Angulon for at least 40 years. I have never had trouble with it covering 4x5. Its angle of coverage is only a few degrees than the Super Angulon. IIRC it is about 3 degrees less.
Jim

[Brassai]

I actually have a 90mm Super Angulon f5.6, single coated. Serial number seems to date it to ~1965. It looks very impressive on my Chamonix! I once read that it was St. Ansel's favorite lens. I'm leaning towards an early 100mm Dagor (WW1 vintage), and am also looking at 21cm Tessars, in Compound. That would give me one of each of the four classics--Dagor, Heliar, Tessar, Velostigmat. To search for my other missing lens, I pulled out everything in my closet. I found a lot of stuff I forgot I had! Some, such as an 1888 Prosch, I will mount to a lensboard and start to use. Other things I have not used, such as several pre-1865 Petzvals, I will end up selling. I try to stick to the rule of if I haven't used it in two years, sell it and get something else.

[Steven Tribe]

Prosch is surely a shutter. They often have no-name RR's or Landscape meniscus lenses.

[Brassai]

Prosch is surely a shutter. They often have no-name RR's or Landscape meniscus lenses.

Yes, it is a generic RR, seems to be about 7-ish inch FL. Some of the Prosch shutters came with Darlot Hemispheriques. I'm heading to the hardware store for some brass screws now to attach the Prosch to a lens board. I think I have the shutter mostly figured out now. I might make a separate post about it later.