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View Full Version : Nikon 200M f9 or Schneider 210 5.6 ?



michael Allen
6-Aug-2004, 05:28
I'm shooting mostly landscape and a little achitecture with a Ebony SVTE and I need to start expanding my lens selection, I currently have one lens (Schneider 110mm XL)

Any recomendations for the used market?............... Thanks in advance.

Ellis Vener
6-Aug-2004, 06:32
Any 210mm f/5.6: Schneider, Rodenstock, Nikon, Fujinon, Caltar-IIN.

John Cook
6-Aug-2004, 07:16
The 210mm f5.6 has been an industry standard as long as I have been alive. It is bright for focusing in dim studio and interior illumination. And its generous image circle allows for plenty of monorail camera movements with interiors and table-tops. I have used several brands in the studio over the years and all are excellent.

However, for my personal happy-snap Ebony I have chosen the Nikon 200mm f8, together with the 150mm f5.6 and the 300mm f9. Nikon makes excellent, tack-sharp lenses, unusually well color-balanced to each other. All of these three are small, light in weight (critical for a relatively flimsy field camera) and all share the same 52mm filter size. I need neither the large image circle for landscapes, nor the image brightness when working outdoors in full sunlight (with a Fresnel).

They are sufficiently inexpensive I need not take a chance on something used. Look into the lenses B&H imports themselves. Only a few hundred each.

Gem Singer
6-Aug-2004, 07:39
Hi Michael,

Take a look at the Midwest photo Exchange website (www.mpex.com). Jim has two previously owned Schneider f9 210 G-Clarons listed at under $400. Since you already own a Schneider 110XL, the 210 G-Claron is a compact, lighter weight lens that would make a good companion for the 110XL . Most modern f5.6 210 lenses, mounted in Copal 1 shutters, are larger, heavier lenses.

Martin Patek-Strutsky
6-Aug-2004, 08:35
If you plan to stay with only two lenses, I would agree that 200/210mm is a good focal length for supplementing the 110mm. Personally I prefer to use a 180mm and a 300mm.

Up to 210mm I would choose a plasmat design (Symmar, Sironar & c.) over a f/9 design. They all come in Copal 1 shutters, don't weigh that much more, offer more coverage and are 1 1/3 stops faster.

Gem Singer
6-Aug-2004, 10:23
Martin,

The Schneider Apo-Symmar f5.6 210 weighs 590 gms. The Schneider G-Claron f9 210 weighs 285 gms. It is a considerably lighter weight lens, especially if Michael is planning on doing any backpack hiking with his Ebony outfit. Both lenses are mounted in Copal 1 shutters. The G-Claron is a slower lens at f9, and it has a smaller image circle than the Apo-Symmar plasmat. However, it is a large enough image circle to allow ample movements with the 4X5 format. Working outside in sunlight, the difference between a maximum aperature of f5.6 and f9 is minimal.

Martin Patek-Strutsky
6-Aug-2004, 11:10
Eugene,

a Apo-Sironar-N 210 weighs only 440g. Would you give up the advantages of a plasmat for 155g?

Martin Patek-Strutsky
6-Aug-2004, 11:21
and a Nikkor-W 210 plasmat weighs 460g.

Kerry L. Thalmann
6-Aug-2004, 11:45
I'm shooting mostly landscape and a little achitecture

How much landscape and how little architecture you will be shooting? It really comes down to how much movement you think you'll be needing. I have both a 200mm f8 Nikkor M, that I use for backpacking and long dayhikes, and a 210mm f5.6 that I use for everything else. They are both wonderful lenses that produce beautifully sharp images. You will not be disappointed in the image quality of either lens. So, it really comes down to the size of the image circle, the size and weight of the lens and the price.

The Schneider Apo-Symmar f5.6 210 weighs 590 gms. The Schneider G-Claron f9 210 weighs 285 gms.

For some reason the weight specs on some Schneider lenses are way too high (and others are right on). The actual weight of my 210mm APO Symmar is 475g. For comparison the 200mm f8 Nikkor M weighs 180g.

Both lenses are mounted in Copal 1 shutters. The G-Claron is a slower lens at f9

The 200mm Nikkor M comes in a Copal No. 0 shutter (which accounts for part of the weight savings) and has the advantage that it's multicoated (the G Claron is single coated). The image circle is smaller (Nikon conservatively rates it as 210mm), but I have always found it to be sufficient for landscape use (architecture might be another story).

Working outside in sunlight, the difference between a maximum aperature of f5.6 and f9 is minimal.

Or in the case of the 200mm Nikkor M, f8. I agree with Eugene's comment. In the longer than normal focal lengths, I have no problem focusing at f8, f9 or even f12.5 (for my 450mm Fujinon C) even in low light situations.

a Apo-Sironar-N 210 weighs only 440g. Would you give up the advantages of a plasmat for 155g?

The G Claron Eugene mentioned is a plasmat (6 elements in 4 groups). The 200mm Nikkor M is a Tessar type (4 elements in three groups) and is 260g lighter than a 210mm APO-Sironar-N and every bit as sharp (perhaps even sharper). As mentioned above, what you give up is coverage (may, or may not be an issue for some users) and one full stop at the focusing aperture (not likely an issue in this focal length and application).

One other possibility would be the 240mm Fujinon A. Like the G Claron, this is an f9 design of 6 elements in four groups. It is multicoated, comes in a Copal 0 shutter, takes 52mm filters, and with a 336mm image circle coverage is not an issue on 4x5 (or even 5x7).

Kerry

Gem Singer
6-Aug-2004, 12:03
No Martin, I would not give up the advantage of a plasmat for a mere 155gms. However, I no longer do any backpack hiking. Perhaps Michael does. Then, he would certainly want to avoid any added weight.

I just compared the difference between my Fuji F8.5 300C (similar to the Nikkor f9 300M) and my Fuji f5.6 300CM-W plasmat. Using these lenses on my 8X10 camera, outdoors, there was not enough difference in the brightness on the groundglass to be noticeable. The 300CM-W is a large lens, mounted in a Copal 3 shutter.

I realize that the 210 Rodenstock Apo-Sironar and the Nikkor 210W are slightly lighter weight than the Schneider 210 Apo-Symmar. However, since Michael's Symmar 110XL is made by Schneider, I suggested that he pair it up with another lens made by Schneider.