Darkroom Design for a 9.8ft x 10.1ft room

[SLVRGLTN]

I'm sure this has been answered before but I don't like hijacking others threads not how I roll anyways I will be converting an old kitchen into a darkroom I have to raise the ceilings to fit the enlarger in which is a Super Chromega F II 8x10 with a base board is the following size 40"x60"(rough estimate on its size) this is the pro model vertical enlarger with color head so I can dial in the contrast for b/w printing only! I believe the head is actually a 10x10 my ideal plan once the property is purchased is to just tear it all down and rebuild a nice house instead of the triplex it now sits on but funds just are not there at the moment! Plus build myself the ultimate darkroom once the property is there I will be printing 8x10 and 5x7 negatives! I do have a designated enlarger for 4x5 and smaller which will need to be in the same darkroom. I know it might be crazy but I'm planning on having both wet and dry side so I can process sheet film up to 8x10 maybe in the future up to 12x20 for Alternative Processes!

If some of you who have done this before I appreciate any insight and advice!

If things go the way that I want I'm hoping to rent out the darkroom out once in a while just to let others have access to make some nice prints and large prints I think I might have the sink specially made out of acrylic like the gravity works print washers are made of but I might be wrong on the material! Since there is a local place to have stuff like that done at!

I'm slowly buying used gear to save me money!

I might sound crazy but everything has been good lately and I really need an actual darkroom to really start printing!

Thanks again Brian

No I'm not crazy just a huge dreamer!

[jeroldharter]

Look at the Darkroom Portraits thread and carefully study the photos for ideas.
Build the largest sink you can, in this case 10.1 feet, ideally 30 inches front to back, keeping in mind that it might be hard to reach the wall if you are short.
As many grounded electrical outlets as you can must, above counter height, below counter height, and on the ceiling.
Drywall the walls and ceiling (i.e. no exposed framing) and paint with glossy paint for low dust, easy cleanup.
A dust free floor like sheet vinyl (no carpet).
No flourescent lighting as it might maintain an afterglow when turned off. Use lots of lighting - I like a bright darkroom - but set it up so that you have a choice between bright light, modest light, safe light.
A large dry erase board (grease board) on the wall is useful for notes.
Plenty of shelf space for storage
Build dust free negative drying space.
I find that line drying prints works for me (better than screens) but they drip water so you need a place where print drying allows you to continue printing.
Try to anticipate yourself. For example, if you get into masking you need more space. Alternative processes (I don't do those) are probably the same.
Use another room for matting and framing. A dry mount press can really heat up a darkroom. Cutting mat board is dusty.

[SLVRGLTN]

@Jerold thanks for the info since this was once a kitchen I'm thinking of making a 10 ft x 44" sink as my wet area and have a separate dry area plus have the sink divided into Dev/Stop/Fixer/Wash/Toning in that order I think If I have enough room for a first water bath because I want it to be setup already in advanced for mural size prints which will be at least 40"x60" prints not printing that big right away but I want the option to already be in play! The mounting station will be in another room/studio area with plenty of storage for everything!

[ROL]

...just a huge dreamer!

...the salient quote for me.

There's nothing that has not already been posted that your general inquisition and basic wet side/dry side plans could not benefit from. Searching here and googling and studying what others have already done is not hijacking threads. Entire books and articles (http://www.rangeoflightphotography.com/pages/a-darkroom-portrait) have already been written to help you. I'd like to see just how you are going to process 40x60 prints in a sink and space that size. I'm not saying it can't be done, but you sure as heck better have your equipment and methods worked out – and in no way could I conceive of renting out such a tiny facility to do such large prints. FWIW, my sink is 34" x 20' (nearly twice as large as your dream), and the largest GSP that I normally print is only 30x40. Good luck with your dreams.

[jose angel]

Just to add to Jerold`s advice the need of proper ventilation if you don`t want to get poisoned with the fumes. You know hours in the darkroom run soooo fast, so I`d first build the extractor system.
Personally, I like to have two sinks, a small stainless one (plastic is right, too) with good drainage for fast and clean disposal of chemicals, mixing concentrates, film processes, etc. and a big second one (plywood) mainly for the trays and the washing stage.
I use to encourage everybody to start hygienic procedures from the first day; adjust your new darkroom to accomplish this procedures with easy. I now regret not to have been trained in this healthy procedures when I started in my father`s darkroom more than forty years ago.

[Luis-F-S]

Agreed, I'm building a small darkroom in my garage to house 3 enlargers; Durst SM-183, LPL 4x5 & Leitz Valloy II. Just roughed in the electrical; I'm planning on two ceiling mounted exhaust fans directly over the sink, exhausting into a small fur down space with an exterior opening at one end. Plumbing happens next week, with an Elkay Chiller and Intellifaucet control valve to install, then the walls get finished. I'll post some shots once it's all finished. It's my third darkroom design, and although I'd like it to be larger; the space is just not there, so I'll make due with what I have!

[SLVRGLTN]

@luis I would love to see what you have done once it's finished

I do appreciate everyone's advice and I realize the darkroom seems small but I have the ability to completely redo the space into a much bigger darkroom most of the work will be done by myself I just don't mess with electrical or plumbing but I will be getting a few books in the next few weeks to help me design how I want it to be. I think the sink alone will be hand built to accommodate trays up to 30x40 and have the ability to make larger prints in the same sink without trays! I know it can be done!

[Bruce Barlow]

Photographer's Formulary took their inexpensive, easy-to-make from plywood and 2x6s sinks to the local place that sprays pickup beds and had them spray them. Nubbly black surface, dries in a day, relatively inexpensive, impermeable enough. I'm about to build a house and will do that in my new darkroom.

[John Powers]

[QUOTE=Luis-F-S;1070680].... I'm planning on two ceiling mounted exhaust fans directly over the sink, exhausting into a small fur down space with an exterior opening at one end. ....QUOTE]

If I understand you correctly, there is a risk to this. If you stand in front of the sink, the fumes come out of the trays in front of you and rise into your nose before exhausting out the ceiling fan. My approach was to have two exhaust fans in the ceiling exiting outside through the wall. The fans are connected to 4 inch PVC pipes which drop to the side of the sink opposite me just above tray height. I also used a filtered input fan across the room. You can't exhaust without having input. I use a furnace filter on the input to reduce dust. The fresh air circulates around me, crosses the sink and trays, goes into the exhaust pipes on the edge of the sink opposite me, then up to the exhaust fans through the PVC pipe.

Years ago Kodak said in their darkroom book that your fans should change the air six times an hour. I prefer much more, but I have chemical allergies.

Panasonic makes "whisper fans" that go between the rafters and are much quieter than most exhaust fans. They cost a little more, but I HATE the rattle of most bathroom exhaust fans.

John

[Luis-F-S]

I know what you mean, but I have no allergies, and frankly at 60, I'm sure I'll get run over by a bus before the fumes can do any damage. I don't have room to exhaust behind the sink, so up is the only reasonable option. The fans will be about 4' above and to the back of the sink. I bought 2 Doran 12" x 12" exhaust fans from B&H; I have two filtered inlet ports as well as the filtered A/C duct at the other end of the room. The fans are 400 CFM and since the room is only 7' x 11.5' it comes out to an air change every minute or so. My last darkroom was a bit larger and I only had one 12x12 fan mounted 6' above the since and did not have any issues with it. I'm not suggesting anyone else to do this, but that's what I'm doing.

Luis, P.E.

[Luis-F-S]

I've completed the rough in of the electrical and plumbing. Attached are some shots of the sink and wet side with K250 Intellifaucet, 6' Elkay sink (bought it about 25 years ago) and a Delta commercial faucet. The second shot is an Elkay 32 GPM water cooled chiller which sits just outside the darkroom and the piping inside the wall (insulated). Then a shot is the Durst SM-183 frame (an 8x10 frame) where it's been for the past 7 years. The last shot of the water feed with filter just upstream of the water heater. I'll post some more shots as the work progresses!


Luis

104446104447104448104449

[Luis-F-S]

Photo of the wet side with the ventilation system installed, exhausting to the outside of the building. The Intellifaucet is covered for dust control.

L104864

[jose angel]

I love how you american people made everything with wood... :)

[C_Remington]

Photo of the wet side with the ventilation system installed, exhausting to the outside of the building. The Intellifaucet is covered for dust control.

L104864

Do u have an exhaust fan?

[C_Remington]

What do u use?

[Luis-F-S]

There are two 12x12 Doran light tite exhaust fans mounted over the sink.

http://www.adorama.com/DKF1212.html

L

[Luis-F-S]

Exhaust system is finished, fur-down is enclosed, now painting. Ordering cabinets, and waiting for paint to dry to start moving in the enlargers. Note existing pegboard on entire back wall to the left.

L105028

[gleaf]

One thought tossed my way from a lab chemist when I mentioned ventilation changing to ammonium based fixer. Sodium and Ammonium based fixers both out-gas. Issue is one vapor rises and the other falls.
Sodium thiosuphate can be vented at near sink top level (heavy vapors) Ammonium based will want to rise. Collect them higher.

[neil poulsen]

Sounds like an exciting project. Having an 8'x10' room isn't too bad. There are a lot smaller darkrooms. I'll offer a couple of suggestions.

I would put the ceiling fans towards one side of the sink and include a light-tight wall vent (or two) towards the other side. To get fumed air out, one needs to have fresh air coming in. Also in this way, the fresh air is drawn across the sink.

From your description, this will probably be the darkroom that you have ongoing. But, if you think there's any chance of moving, consider the following. I got myself a 3/4" sheet of plywood and mounted all my plumbing and developing related electronics on it. (Plumbing on one side; electronics on the other.) I used vertical 2x2's behind it on either side to mount it on the wall. After mounting it, I connect it using two hoses to hot and cold water, and I plug in a cord into 110volt wall receptical. When I move, it moves with me.

The two 2x2's leave a space behind the board for pipes and wires that I don't want seen. For the plumbing, I sweated standard copper tubing. It was quite a design process, but I have filtered water for mixing and for the temperature controller. I opted for non-filtered water for washing prints. For electronics, I have a timer, a couple of digital thermometers, a switch box that includes two switches for the two thermometers and a switch for the darkwoom lights mounted on the ceiling, and my invaluable Zone VI compensating developing timer.

The other thing that I'd recommend is a full-face mask filter for mixing powdered chemistry. No chance of that powder lodging in one's lungs.

[Luis-F-S]

Don't think I'll be able to take my darkroom to the nursing home..............The fresh air vents and the AC vent are at the other end of the room. The vents by the Durst, the AC by the LPL. I'll post photos of those once set up. Both are filtered, the AC at the air handler and again at the room vent.

There's way too much plumbing to move, I like the way it came out; the plumber did a good job. Behind the wall is am Elkay water cooled chiller. The chilled line goes to the cold side of the Intellifaucet, both cold & hot go to the hot side. During the summer, the cold at 80 deg provides the hot water, and the chilled at 50 deg the cold. Right now, I don't run the chiller so it comes in at around 65 deg & the hot from the water heater comes in at 120 deg.

L

[RandyB]

All electrical circuits in the darkroom must be GFI protected for your safety. Standard grounded won't save you. The GFI plugs do cost much more than regular ones but are much cheaper than a funeral. I would also suggest that each enlarger be on a separate circuit from your breaker box, some electronic timers can be tripped by the on/off pluse of an adjacient enlarger/timer on the same circuit.


Look at the Darkroom Portraits thread and carefully study the photos for ideas.
Build the largest sink you can, in this case 10.1 feet, ideally 30 inches front to back, keeping in mind that it might be hard to reach the wall if you are short.
As many grounded electrical outlets as you can must, above counter height, below counter height, and on the ceiling.
Drywall the walls and ceiling (i.e. no exposed framing) and paint with glossy paint for low dust, easy cleanup.
A dust free floor like sheet vinyl (no carpet).
No flourescent lighting as it might maintain an afterglow when turned off. Use lots of lighting - I like a bright darkroom - but set it up so that you have a choice between bright light, modest light, safe light.
A large dry erase board (grease board) on the wall is useful for notes.
Plenty of shelf space for storage
Build dust free negative drying space.
I find that line drying prints works for me (better than screens) but they drip water so you need a place where print drying allows you to continue printing.
Try to anticipate yourself. For example, if you get into masking you need more space. Alternative processes (I don't do those) are probably the same.
Use another room for matting and framing. A dry mount press can really heat up a darkroom. Cutting mat board is dusty.

[Tin Can]

i put a breaker box GFI breaker on the circuit that feeds my entire darkroom and grounded every piece of big metal, like sinks, exhaust ducting and enlargers. Yes most of it grounds through water, or pipes or power cords, but I like grounding, in case of...

The single breaker box GFI is cheaper than 2 of the normal ones and installs quicker.


All electrical circuits in the darkroom must be GFI protected for your safety. Standard grounded won't save you. The GFI plugs do cost much more than regular ones but are much cheaper than a funeral. I would also suggest that each enlarger be on a separate circuit from your breaker box, some electronic timers can be tripped by the on/off pluse of an adjacient enlarger/timer on the same circuit.

[Luis-F-S]

Randy, all the outlets are GFI protected, gang run off GFI outlets rather than breakers. Work pretty much the same way. There are 3 circuits feeding the darkroom, and since it's a single person darkroom, no more than one enlarger is used at one time. All the interior lighting is LED though I've had flourescent lights in other darkrooms and never noticed any effects.

[nbagno]

How has that chiller worked out for you? I'm thinking about getting one.


I've completed the rough in of the electrical and plumbing. Attached are some shots of the sink and wet side with K250 Intellifaucet, 6' Elkay sink (bought it about 25 years ago) and a Delta commercial faucet. The second shot is an Elkay 32 GPM water cooled chiller which sits just outside the darkroom and the piping inside the wall (insulated). Then a shot is the Durst SM-183 frame (an 8x10 frame) where it's been for the past 7 years. The last shot of the water feed with filter just upstream of the water heater. I'll post some more shots as the work progresses!


Luis

104446104447104448104449

[Luis-F-S]

Couldn’t develop film without one! Pm me with your email if you want more information.

[nbagno]

I was finally able to find a used ER301 and a decent price. Now that the temperature and tap water temperature have cooled I'll have to wait until next summer to see if it can successfully cool down my Jobo ATL to 68 degrees.

[Luis-F-S]

The ER 301 is an air cooled chiller. I would install it where it is not too hot so as not to decrease the efficiency of the chiller. Also, if installed inside the darkroom, it will tend to make the room warm. The one I use is a ERW32 which is a water cooled chiller. Doesn't put out heat and doesn't matter where you install it as long as you can get water to it and drain water out. At least the ER301 produces around 30 GPH which is good. I use an Intellifaucet with mine to get the temp to 68 Deg yearround. Installation and use is explained in this thread:

https://www.largeformatphotography.info/forum/showthread.php?109688-Hass-Intellifaucet-Installation&highlight=intellifaucet

I've also got a schematic of the piping diagram I used. Good Luck!

[Eric Woodbury]

My first darkroom in this house was a bedroom. 9' x 9' with a low ceiling, 6' on one side and about 6'7" on the other. (I had a hole in the drywall on ceiling where the enlarger could rise to full height.) It was a fine space. I put a 2' H x 4' W sliding window in the room with a hinged piece of plywood to cover when needed. And I did most of the other stuff mentioned here. It was galley layout with a sink slightly longer than 8'. It was a fine space for about 13 years. Just outside the room, I built a finishing area with cabinets and such.

When it came time to move to my present darkroom, I realized I had built a 'boat in a basement'. The plumbing was mounted to a separate piece with disconnects, so it left first. The sink detached from the stick legs. It was lifted up and removed on edge -- easy. The stick legs and shelves under the sink and the counter/shelves under the enlarger were narrow enough to fit through the door, but too long to turn the corner that I formed in the finishing room.

Using a circular saw to cut the bottoms in two, I made two shorter lengths. Very crude. These I took to the new darkroom and stuck them back together with bandaids where they still are 20 years later.

The moral of the story: consider your next move.

NOTES:
I know ventilation is a big deal and I did what I could. Mostly, I use Vit C based developers, citric acid stop, and rapid fix without the sulfuric acid. In the new darkroom, there is a light-tight vent in the door and a squirrel cage blower in the ceiling above and back of the developer. I bought mine at Grainger. It's kind of loud, so I have a rheostat on it. I don't need chilled water much, so I use a frozen plastic water bottle for those needs. There are four main circuits in the room. One for all things needed in the light, one for all things needed without light, a heater/AC circuit, and some standard outlets. When it comes time to be completely dark, one switch kills all the lights and lighted stuff.

Have fun. -e-

[nbagno]

The ER 301 is an air cooled chiller. I would install it where it is not too hot so as not to decrease the efficiency of the chiller. Also, if installed inside the darkroom, it will tend to make the room warm. The one I use is a ERW32 which is a water cooled chiller. Doesn't put out heat and doesn't matter where you install it as long as you can get water to it and drain water out. At least the ER301 produces around 30 GPH which is good. I use an Intellifaucet with mine to get the temp to 68 Deg yearround. Installation and use is explained in this thread:

https://www.largeformatphotography.info/forum/showthread.php?109688-Hass-Intellifaucet-Installation&highlight=intellifaucet

I've also got a schematic of the piping diagram I used. Good Luck!

It’s in the garage where the Jobo is located. It does exhaust through the existing garage vent which should reduce some if the heat in the garage. It’s the only choice I had.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Luis-F-S]

Does the Jobo mix temperatures or will you need a mixing valve? The water comes out of the chiller at 55 deg F.

[nbagno]

Does the Jobo mix temperatures or will you need a mixing valve? The water comes out of the chiller at 55 deg F.

It inputs to the cold side of an Intellifaucet D250