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View Full Version : Fluid Head why and how they work



smithdoor
24-Sep-2013, 18:52
I have look at the Tripod Fluid Head
Can not find any thing on the web on how they work
Is this just a hyp or do they work better for the price

Dave

Jac@stafford.net
24-Sep-2013, 19:02
In my experience they are definitely not suitable for still photography.

Dan Fromm
24-Sep-2013, 19:44
A two axis (pan, tilt) fluid head is very helpful when panning or tilting while shooting a movie (on film or video). I can think of only one reason why a still photographer would use one, viz., if shooting "film" and still on the same outing. In this case, only one tripod (with head, of course) need be carried. I've been done there and done that when I was shooting movies.

Stafford, I have two fluid heads, have used both for still photography. They now live in the closet because I've stopped filming, but when I was filming and shooting still they worked very well under my still cameras. I've never had a three axis (pan, tilt, "Dutch Roll") fluid head, these beasties are far, far out of my price range.

OP, if you do only still photography you'll get no benefit from a fluid head.

Jim Andrada
24-Sep-2013, 21:42
They work vastly better for video/film. And the more expensive heads work better yet. although $5k or more for a tripod head may seem a bit excessive to some . There are several types, of which the most common and lower cost type use a viscous grease trapped between two mating members. The whole point is to smooth out the motion so you don't get bumpy or jerky pans and tilts while swinging the camera during filming/recording. Lower cost heads have a slight tendency to "bounce back" a bit at the end of a pan or tilt due to elasticity of the grease. The (much more) expensive heads don't have this problem and I believe work by forcing a fluid through an orifice to achieve the damping effect. If you get into a real studio video camera (the ones with the $150k lenses) the vertical move is also counterbalanced/damped. I do a fair amount of video and a good fluid head is an absolute necessity.

As has been pointed out, if you don't pan/tilt the camera with the shutter open, they do absolutely nothing for the still photographer except lighten your wallet and bulk up your kit.

Leszek Vogt
24-Sep-2013, 21:51
OP, if you do only still photography you'll get no benefit from a fluid head.[/QUOTE]

I'm not so sure I'd come to the same conclusion. This type of a head could be useful with DSLR's and longer lenses (following action)....usually above 300mm. In fact Bjorn Rorslett (well known Nikon lens reviewer) uses it. Most 'togs, however, prefer a ball head or gimball support. As to quality of a movement it might be a toss up, though the sticks that support these type of fluid heads come with are usually heavier and that could make the difference. Primarily the fluid head is designed for super smooth pan-tilt motion....allowing you to design the speed (or drag) of such movements. Looking at Sachtler, Cartoni and several others, they can quickly run up the price (depending on weight tolerance) of up to $10K. Mostly these are used w/video or mot pic cameras.

Les

Daniel Stone
24-Sep-2013, 23:10
I used to use an ITE-branded fluid head when I was using a Calumet C-1, a "big, black BEAST" of a camera :)

TBH, that camera was so da__ heavy, it NEEDED a fluid head! I used my Gitzo #5 pan/tilt head, and TBH, that camera was too much for it to handle. Torgue, torsion, etc... And 2ndly, I found it MUCH easier to 'level' the camera by adjusting the legs(ala Ries style). Tilt was obviously controlled by the head itself.

For a camera like the Calumet, a HEAVY DUTY geared head, or a fluid head, IMO, makes operation MUCH easier. I bought the head(w/ adjustable arm) for $40 off of ebay, and in a way still regret selling it off. I don't shoot video, and no longer shoot 8x10, but it had a rock-solid feel, and the dampened tilt/base rotation movements were very nice for exacting composition.

FYI, a very well regarded 8x10 photographer, Christopher Burkett, uses a fluid head and a "video" tripod, both by Sachtler. Not cheap(~$8-10k for his setup, new!), but if it helps him get what he needs, then all the more power to him :). He uses a C-1 btw as well.

http://www.opb.org/programs/artbeat/segment/photographer-christopher-burkett/

Just using him as an example :)

-Dan

AtlantaTerry
24-Sep-2013, 23:40
I use a Manfrotto video tripod with 75mm bowl and Manfrotto fluid head with my Cambo. I first purchased it for my film work but thought, "what the heck" and tried it with my large format photography and liked it.

I also have a more normal Gitzo stills tripod with a couple heads. One is a "joystick" design and the other is a Gitzo 410 geared head.

I find it far easier to set up and adjust the Cambo by adjusting the fluid head and bowl as opposed to adjusting a typical tripod. Plus the video "sticks" allows me to quickly the camera's height, something I can't do as easily with a more traditional tripod when the camera is attached.

When using my Crown Graphic, I put that on the Gitzo because it is so light.

Jac@stafford.net
25-Sep-2013, 03:50
There are several types, of which the most common and lower cost type use a viscous grease trapped between two mating members.

Don't they use pure silicone between several discs now?

smithdoor
25-Sep-2013, 08:42
Now I see it is just a bearing using oil/grease
Why not ball bearings???

Dave


They work vastly better for video/film. And the more expensive heads work better yet. although $5k or more for a tripod head may seem a bit excessive to some . There are several types, of which the most common and lower cost type use a viscous grease trapped between two mating members. The whole point is to smooth out the motion so you don't get bumpy or jerky pans and tilts while swinging the camera during filming/recording. Lower cost heads have a slight tendency to "bounce back" a bit at the end of a pan or tilt due to elasticity of the grease. The (much more) expensive heads don't have this problem and I believe work by forcing a fluid through an orifice to achieve the damping effect. If you get into a real studio video camera (the ones with the $150k lenses) the vertical move is also counterbalanced/damped. I do a fair amount of video and a good fluid head is an absolute necessity.

As has been pointed out, if you don't pan/tilt the camera with the shutter open, they do absolutely nothing for the still photographer except lighten your wallet and bulk up your kit.

DrTang
25-Sep-2013, 08:52
Don't they use pure silicone between several discs now?


true fluid heads push oil thru a user variable aperture to smooth out pans and tilts


I've had leaky Miller Heads before

smithdoor
25-Sep-2013, 11:01
Is the oil pump ?

Dave


true fluid heads push oil thru a user variable aperture to smooth out pans and tilts


I've had leaky Miller Heads before

Bruce Watson
25-Sep-2013, 14:06
Now I see it is just a bearing using oil/grease
Why not ball bearings???

Too rough. Really. You'll "see" the bearings in the footage.

The job of a fluid head is to make it easy for the operator to pan/tilt the camera with complete visual smoothness, at the rate / acceleration the operator chooses, to come to a complete stop with zero bounce back (absolutely no visual artifacts) at the end of the movement, and to hold the camera motionless in both tilt and pan axes in the absence of operator input (which requires a way to balance the load -- what the camera weighs, and where it's center of gravity is) regardless of where the camera is pointing, and without being locked down. This is a tall order, and it's why fluid heads are used, and why good fluid heads are so amazingly expensive.

And if you've ever used a good one, you'll know why cinematographers exhibit more loyalty to their fluid heads than to any other piece of equipment they use.

Kimberly Anderson
25-Sep-2013, 15:32
I have used Miller and am currently using an O'Connor fluid head on my 8x10 and 12x20. I love them.

Jac@stafford.net
25-Sep-2013, 18:21
While I do not own a fluid head, for some time it was all we had in my department. Another important quality was that it did not surge forward after beginning a movement. That impressed me very much.

Still, no pun, it is of no use for still work unless it is the only head available, as it was for me for a while.

smithdoor
25-Sep-2013, 18:43
Sounds like a gear tripod head would be the best for still work

Thank you all for the info
Dave



While I do not own a fluid head, for some time it was all we had in my department. Another important quality was that it did not surge forward after beginning a movement. That impressed me very much.

Still, no pun, it is of no use for still work unless it is the only head available, as it was for me for a while.

Jim Andrada
25-Sep-2013, 20:38
I think more people would like the video tripods with leveling (half) ball if they tried them. I use a relatively inexpensive Libec tripod and it is quite nice.

Re the question about "why not use ball bearings" it's because you want to increase drag, not minimize it as well as not wanting the play (although that can be adjusted out in very precise ball/roller bearings (we use some that have runout in the few micron range)

High end fluid heads like O'Connor/Miller are a joy to use, but I've had quite good luck with some of the better Manfrotto heads under a video camera set up in the 20 pound range including batteries/external viewfinder/hard drive.

Dan Fromm
25-Sep-2013, 20:43
Jim, I first got a ball leveler (Manfrotto 138) to put under a fluid head when I was shooting S8. I've since got the latest, I think, Manfrotto leveler (438) and find it invaluable under my Graphics and Cambo. It makes setting up and leveling the camera much easier, and the level is maintained should I use my pan head to re-aim the camera.

dap
26-Sep-2013, 06:52
I think more people would like the video tripods with leveling (half) ball if they tried them.

Agreed - they are a joy to use. I have an old oconnor and since getting it I rarely use my gitzo anymore. The setup is MUCH faster - the only penalties being a bit extra bulk and a shorter overall height.

smithdoor
26-Sep-2013, 11:55
Does any use or try Air bearings

Dave

AtlantaTerry
26-Sep-2013, 14:43
Dave, a good question. I wonder if air might make a "hissing" sound that the microphones would pick up.

John Koehrer
26-Sep-2013, 15:13
There's one minor hindrance to a video head with 35mm. If you want a vertical you need to turn the camera 90 degrees to the tilt axis. For LF and some MF you can rotate the camera back but if you want the ability to level a horizon it can be a little touchy.

The EMO ball heads have two ball bearing races in them, one at the base and one just below the mounting plate. They don't have the damping of a fluid head but they don't grab or hesitate at all.

smithdoor
27-Sep-2013, 19:43
I think there will be new ones coming out Like a oil pump this how some machine tools work
But for still work I do not need this type.

Dave