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Calamity Jane
4-Aug-2004, 09:23
I have been doing 35mm and 120 darkroom work since 1969 but have just started in 4x5 and I am finding my sheet film mechanics VERY challenging!

Loading the holders isn't too bad, though I must have put a wet finger on the edge of 2/3 of a package of E-6 because the whole batch shows chemical contamination in the middle of the notched edge.

When unloading the 4x5 holders, I am absolutely stumped on how to lift the sheet off the holder back without getting my fingernail under the film and pinching it with my thumb to slip it out - result: numerous thumb prints in the middle of the notched edge.

I guess I am just a very "tactile" person :-)

I also haven't found a good clip to hold the sheets while drying.

If any of you experienced LF processors that can offer suggestions, they will be GREATLY appreciated!

Frank Lahorgue
4-Aug-2004, 09:45
After trying several alternatives, I bought a set of Jobo sheet film clips. B&H has them -- B&H#JOFCS. They are pricey but I know of nothing else that works as well. Also, B&H has used ones for a more reasonable price.

Jim Rice
4-Aug-2004, 09:59
I too use the fingernail and thumb method. I'm not aware that any other exists. Just try to minimize the surface area of thumb applied.

Ralph Barker
4-Aug-2004, 10:18
I also use the fingernail technique, but find it helpful to wash (and thoroughly dry) my hands immediately prior to handling film. That minimizes any natural skin oils that might cause a problem. Occasionally, a sheet will cling stubbornly to the backing plate, and a puff of air will help lift the edge.

I use large "binder clips" - the type with the wire "wings" - from the office supply as film-drying clips. Unless defective or loose, they firmly grip the film in the margin area. I fashioned little hangers from clothes hanger wire that extend through the binder clip's wings and hang over a pole in the darkroom. The hangers are twisted such that the sheets hang parallel to each other, but perpendicular to the pole. Works great.

For 8x10 film, I use two small binder clips suspended from a full wire clothes hanger by tying a short piece of nylon string between the open wings of the clips. That way, the openings of the clips are parallel to the bottom of the clothes hanger, allowing the 8x10 film to be hung from the same drying pole, again, parallel to each other, but perpendicular to the pole.

David L.
4-Aug-2004, 10:33
Ditto Ralph's comments on the binder clips for drying. As for the fingernail and thumb approach, there really is no other way. It sounds like the marks were applied to the film prior to loading because fingerprints that find their way to the film AFTER exposure are washed away during processing (unless the marks are from developing chemistry). I always wash my hands thoroughly before unloading film and I've never had a problem.

Gem Singer
4-Aug-2004, 11:11
Hi Calamity,

Take a close look your film holders. When you lift up the bottom flap, you will see a circular indentation. It was put there to help facilitate placing a fingernail underneath, so that the sheet of film can be lifted up, in order to grip it and slide it out of the holder. I also use that circular indentation to flick the film upward, using my fingernail, right after I have loaded it into the holder, in order to make certain that it has slid into the grooves on both sides of the holder.

Hands need to be clean, and completely dry, when handling film. No hand lotion applied. Fingernails trimmed relatively short.

I use plastic clothes pins, strung across a dust free area of my darkroom, on heavy monofiliment fishing line. I carefully fasten the sheets of film to the clothes pins by their notched corner, so that they hang down diagonally. I bought the clothes pins at Wal Mart. They have pre-drilled holes to facilitate stringing them on the line.

Bruce Watson
4-Aug-2004, 11:29
This is how I do it. Clearly, YMMV.

1) Make sure your hands are spotlessly cleaned and dry. Wash using soap to make sure you get the oils off. Don't touch anything other than the film holders, the film, the film boxes, the counter, and the light switch. If you scratch your nose, you are in trouble...

2) Use your finger nail to raise the edge of the film using the aforementioned circular indentation.

3) Using your other hand, grip the film between thumb and forefinger on the corner where the notches are. Do not grip the middle of the film - just the corner. Why? The corner gives you the most "non-image area" on the film. Be careful not to scratch the film with the thumb's fingernail, because the fingernail will almost certainly be in the image area.

4) Pull the film out enough the clear the end of the film holder.

5) Let go. Using one hand, grip the film by the long edges (that is, thumb on one edge, a couple of fingers on the other edge), pull it out of the holder and transfer it to wherever it is going to go.

Remember, it's OK to touch the back of the film. If you need to flex the film one way or the other, or wiggle it around, you can touch the back and the edges.

Other than that, practice makes perfect.

Steve Nieslony
4-Aug-2004, 12:00
Kodak Dental Film clips are great for hanging film to dry. They are used to hold x-ray films.

Only one point of contact and it is very easy to place this in one corner of the film where you only have base image (clearish on neg film and black on chromes). You will need to buy these clips from a dental supply store as opposed to a photo store.

John Cook
4-Aug-2004, 12:08
I use the nail of my middle finger to lift the film. (This is tough to do when I have recently cut my nails short.) Once lifted, I pinch it between my middle finger and thumb and pull it gently out of the holder. The trick is not to kink it, creating a half-moon in the image.

I have had young, nervous assistants whose hands sweat and get clammy. They always left fingerprints on the film.

I have also had female assistants who, like my wife, were incessantly putting lotion on their hands to keep them soft. Grease and sweat are two major problem makers.

I seem to have dry, calloused, farmer’s hands which hardly seem to leave fingerprints. They are perfect for handling film. Perhaps I should also try safe-cracking?

Should you not wish the hands of a farmer, perhaps 4mil powdered nitrile gloves would keep the film dry. Also useful for handling raw print paper on the cutter. Your nails should be useable through such thin gloves to lift film. If not, perhaps a plastic guitar pick to lift the film without scratching?

Lab Safety Supply has the perfect glove:

http://www.labsafety.com/store/product_group.asp?dept_id=12597&cat_prefix=4WA

As far as hangers go, the standard which everybody (and I mean Everybody!) used to use was stainless Kodak Dental Clips, catalogue number 149-2586. They have a sharp spring-loaded point which meets a 1/8" half-round bump. Hold the film tightly without leaving a large mark. Also perfect for RC prints. A small hook on the end is perfect for insertion into eye-screws on a long strip of wood attached to the ceiling.

Dunno if they are still made. But I did a web search and came up with a dental supply which looks promising:

http://www.dentistbid.com/prodlist.asp?cat=57&page=4

JohnnyV
4-Aug-2004, 12:38
You need fingernails to lift and pull the film out.

Some 4x5 holders don't have the circular indentation - which makes having fingernails even more important.

Alec Jones
4-Aug-2004, 14:46
You do NOT need fingernails to grab that film in your LF holders.

Take of sheet of developed film [I have lots of "mistakes" around], cut a strip about 1" wide and 2" long. Then round off one end.

In use, have this available when you unload your holders. Use this to get under the film, then try to handle the sheet only by the edges to the best of your ability. It can be done.

I use Kodak Color Clips, #149 2594 which were made for this purpose. No longer made, nor easy to find, they grip only a small portion of the negative edge. Hang the negatives with one corner up - they'll drain down to the low corner. You can dab them there with a lintless cloth. Negs dry fast that way.

Bruce Watson
4-Aug-2004, 17:59
Oh, yes - clips for drying. I just use wooden clothes pins. Work like a charm. Again, clip on the corner with the notches are. They leave a little mark, but not on the image area.

Sharon S.
4-Aug-2004, 23:16
Alec - great idea! A piece of developed film! If you had a long enough piece and folded it in two, you could slide one side under the film and fold over the other side on top of the film you want to remove, and remove the undeveloped film without ever touching it. I love the ideas i get from this website!!

Also, I found a temporary laundry line gadget at the local hardware store. It has a hook on either end of a elasticized laundry line. On the line are 6 plastic clothes pins which can be moved around to adjust for how you hang your film.

S

Tim Curry
5-Aug-2004, 06:34
I resent that comment about "touching your nose" and film damage. Do you change the oil in your car without washing your hands before handling film? Noseoil is one of the world's finest lubricants of small parts.

Darin Cozine
5-Aug-2004, 10:56
BTW, what film holders are you using?

I have some older fidelity elite holders, plastic ones, that are a pain in the a$$ to remove the film. I found that sometimes if I hold it up-side-down that it is easier. I'm not sure if the newer ones are any better.

The graflex Riteway holders have a deeper indent. It is much easier to remove the film.

Ole Tjugen
5-Aug-2004, 11:48
Dan and Darin have the answer: Don't try to pull the film up; let it drop down instead. It's much easier to get the film out of the bottom slot than the top!

Jim Ewins
6-Aug-2004, 22:05
I have tried leaving my negs in the hangers to dry. many of the negs stuck to the hanger. some brands of hangers worse than others. I've never a problem with wood clothes pins.