new LF camera owner

[Kris Bochenek]

Hi
I just bought a RHS Model A 4x5 LF camera and have several questions. I bought it with a damaged lens, so the price I paid reflects that. I need new lens not too expensive 150 dollars maybe? something that would be considered a standard lens. I also need film holders. Does this camera take standard film holders or do I need specific ones for this model? Can I use any modern holders? What I worry about is the distance from the back to the film plane, since that has to match what is projected on the ground glass. Thank you.

[angusparker]

Any lens between 150-210mm is "normal" for a 4x5. Have a look at this list of modern lenses, pretty much anything here in that focal length range will work: http://www.largeformatphotography.info/lenses/LF4x5in.html The main consideration for you will be price and max aperture - you're choices are from F5.6 up to F9. If you have a good ground glass with a Fresnel and if you don't plan on a lot of dawn/dusk shooting then F8 or F9 would be fine. Another consideration is the filter ring size. Typically the F8/9 lenses have a filter size of 52mm and the F5.6 of 67mm but there are exceptions to the rule of thumb. If you have a lot of filters of one size or the other I would standardize on it. Personally, I really like the Nikkor and Fujinon lenses. It's fairly easy to put together a nice three lens set with modern coatings that give good performance for color and B&W film. Maybe one each in the 90-125mm, 135-240mm and 300-450mm ranges. Remember bellows draw may limit you at the short and longer ends.

Here is another source of reviews on lenses, worth a read: http://www.thalmann.com/largeformat/future.htm

Not sure what holders work with your camera but I swear by the more expensive Toyo holders - they are very precise and easy to load. Might be worth buying these new if you have the money since they are critical to a good focus.

[Kris Bochenek]

now how about a way to mount those? Can I use the board from my current lens or do different lenses call for different boards? and how do I know one will fit my camera and other will not?

[John Kasaian]

now how about a way to mount those? Can I use the board from my current lens or do different lenses call for different boards? and how do I know one will fit my camera and other will not?

It all depends on the size hole needed for your new lens. Tell us which lens you already have and if you know, what size shutter it's in and maybe we can give you a better idea.

[Kris Bochenek]

The camera came with Wollensak lens, but I'm eyeing a nice Nikkor 210mm.

[John Kasaian]

Does it look anything like this?
http://www.largeformatphotography.info/forum/showthread.php?75656-RHS-Camera

[Kris Bochenek]

no, this is what I got, and the more I look at it the more I want to get the lens fixed, Its shutter is slow and the lens has some edge separation. 102174

[angusparker]

Modern lenses, like the Nikkor 210mm, pretty much all come in a copal shutter. Look at the first link I shared above. There are three sizes of lens board holes - 0, 1 and 3 with 0 the smallest.

[AtlantaTerry]

To get you going pick up some sheet film holders via eBay. There are a bunch of them now that are up for bid.

I prefer to buy used plastic ones because I was told that wooden film holders can warp.

Once you get a couple film holders do you know how to load film? It is easy to learn. If you want some useless sheets of film to practice loading with shoot me a PM with a mailing address (USA only, please).

[Kris Bochenek]

To get you going pick up some sheet film holders via eBay. There are a bunch of them now that are up for bid.

I prefer to buy used plastic ones because I was told that wooden film holders can warp.

Once you get a couple film holders do you know how to load film? It is easy to learn. If you want some useless sheets of film to practice loading with shoot me a PM with a mailing address (USA only, please).

Yes. I know how to load LF. I use Graflex RB ccamera. This one is a little different animal that's why I have been asking all those questions.

[John Kasaian]

Most of the Wollensak lenses I've run into are pretty nice and many are considered very desirable. If all you need is a cla (clean-lube-adjust), it's worth doing. Carol at Flutot's is one of the very best at this
http://flutotscamerarepair.com/

[Kris Bochenek]

I will just keep the Wollensak lens and see if I can get it repaired. Thank you for the tips. Now off to the 'bay to get some film holders

[Kris Bochenek]

does anyone know if calumet 4x5 board will fit this camera? I just found a nice lens from a calumet camera, but I am unsure if the board will fit my camera.

[fecaleagle]

does anyone know if calumet 4x5 board will fit this camera? I just found a nice lens from a calumet camera, but I am unsure if the board will fit my camera.

I would say that a calumet board matching your camera is incredibly unlikely. You're going to need to measure your lens board and note whether or not it's got any rabbets or defining characteristics on the edges. If you measure the hole that it's currently got drilled in it and find that it's a close match to a standard copal size, you've always got the option of mounting your newer lens to the existing board. Many of us have simply filed out an existing hole to match a larger shutter/lens. I doubt that many of us have an RHS Model A 4x5 on hand, so it would definitely help to give us the dimensions of your lens board and the diameter of the hole that is drilled in it.

If that's not a hearty "welcome" to the world of antique wooden tailboard/field cameras, I don't know what is. :)

If you are planning on having the Wollensak repaired, you're probably going to have to make yourself (or have made) an additional lens board for each additional lens you acquire. As I said, this camera is not one of the more common 4x5s, so you are unlikely to find new lens boards made to its specifications, although stranger things have happened. Again, this is why I stress that you should take those measurements and make note of any edge details where the board mates to the camera.

Edit: I just did a search on Calumet 4x5 boards and see that they're typically a 4x4" square. So if your board is a 4x4" square, you may have lucked out. Otherwise, everything above applies.

[Kris Bochenek]

The closer I look at the camera the more stuff I see. I noticed that my Wollensak lens cannot be used with modern films. When the lens shutter is closed and bright light is aimed at the lens the shutter becomes transparent and it glows red. I guess that this would not be a problem if I were shooting paper or plates, but film will not tollerate that. Hmm it looks like I might have to get more modern lens after all.

[AtlantaTerry]

The closer I look at the camera the more stuff I see. I noticed that my Wollensak lens cannot be used with modern films. When the lens shutter is closed and bright light is aimed at the lens the shutter becomes transparent and it glows red. I guess that this would not be a problem if I were shooting paper or plates, but film will not tollerate that. Hmm it looks like I might have to get more modern lens after all.

WHAT??? That is a load of ... baloney!

Do you think films made years ago were less sensitive to light???

Do you know how hot the shutter would have to get to glow red and become transparent????

Who told you that??

The only thing that could possibly be wrong is your shutter does not close completely. If that is the case then it would have been just as bad 50 years ago as it is today. Light leaking through a partly open shutter is bad news but all that would be needed is a repair. Firms such as SK Grimes or KEH or others should be able to repair a Wollensak shutter for you for not much cost.

[Kris Bochenek]

It doesnt glow. The shutter leaves are see through (red) when pointed at the sun or very bright light. Otherwise they are opaque. I removed the dumper cylinder from the shutter and cleaned it up, now the shutter responds at all speeds nicely. I will take a pic of the closed shutter with light pointed right at it. I never said the shutter gets hot, I said that the leaved are not steel they are some other material. I am sitting here and looking at it now. IT looks opaque untill pointed at very strong light such as sun or flashlight, room lights won't show that.

[Jim Galli]

Unfortunately those shutters were not reliable on the day they were made. Entry level even then. Look for a 203mm Kodak Ektar, and have at it.

[Mark MacKenzie]

Of course films of the past were much less sensitive to red spectrum. Think of the red window on the back of all those roll film cameras. Listen to Jim. He's been there done that.

[Kris Bochenek]

here, check it out, the glowing "problem" it only shows up when I point strong flash light right at the lens few inches away or if I point the lens directly at the Sun. this does not show up even in bright light as long as it's not pointed to the light source. 102432
Keep in mind that the shutter is fully closed, it is just that the leaves are not made of steel.

[Jim Galli]

The phenolic shutter blades on many of the earliest shutters were not completely opaque. They let some red light in. The film at that time could not 'see' red so it didn't matter. Another reason to look elsewhere, or think about shooting b/w paper with that lens. Paper is so slow you don't have to worry about either red light or shutter speeds.

[Kris Bochenek]

The phenolic shutter blades on many of the earliest shutters were not completely opaque. They let some red light in. The film at that time could not 'see' red so it didn't matter. Another reason to look elsewhere, or think about shooting b/w paper with that lens. Paper is so slow you don't have to worry about either red light or shutter speeds.

Yup! You see I am not crazy YEY!!!!! I have never encountered one like that though. The lens is from 1901 or thereabout, so I guess they were shooting plates with it. One question remains, Why go to phenolic instead of steel?

[Jim Galli]

Yup! You see I am not crazy YEY!!!!! I have never encountered one like that though. The lens is from 1901 or thereabout, so I guess they were shooting plates with it. One question remains, Why go to phenolic instead of steel?

I'll just venture a guess. It was cheap and light in weight.

[Regular Rod]

The closer I look at the camera the more stuff I see. I noticed that my Wollensak lens cannot be used with modern films. When the lens shutter is closed and bright light is aimed at the lens the shutter becomes transparent and it glows red. I guess that this would not be a problem if I were shooting paper or plates, but film will not tollerate that. Hmm it looks like I might have to get more modern lens after all.

You could still use the lens if you simply don't use the shutter. Set the shutter open to focus and compose. Leave it open. Set the aperture to the setting you want. Put the lens cap on, if you do not have one make one out of cardboard, lined with adhesive black foam rubber sold for light seals and cover the outside in a few layers of black duct tape. Insert the film holder. Withdraw the dark slide. Take the lens cap off for the duration of the exposure. Put it back on. Re-insert the dark slide. Take out the film holder. Go home and develop your photograph.

In the eighties my lens had no shutter at all.

The other alternative is to use Orthochromatic film...

RR

[AtlantaTerry]

Of course films of the past were much less sensitive to red spectrum. Think of the red window on the back of all those roll film cameras. Listen to Jim. He's been there done that.

Don't forget that there was a paper backing between the film and red window. And the paper had a black surface next to the film.

One problem with the red window is after 50 or 60 years the red coloring fades so it is often advisable to add a piece of red gel inside.

[AtlantaTerry]

Would a moderator please delete my comment #16. In the light (no pun) of Kris' more detailed explanation, my remarks look dumb.

Thanks. :)

[John Koehrer]

Lens boards for wooden cameras are simple to make even with the stepped light trap.
I make 'em with the three piece style but using modeling plywood is just as easy, not as pretty.
To make the ply version, cut one piece to fit the outside dimension, another to the inside and glue 'em and drill 'em.

Newer shutters use standard hole sizes, 00, 0, 1, 2, & 3. Shutters as old as yours didn't have standard sizes. In some cases, though; close enough is good enough

[fecaleagle]

Lens boards for wooden cameras are simple to make even with the stepped light trap.
I make 'em with the three piece style but using modeling plywood is just as easy, not as pretty.
To make the ply version, cut one piece to fit the outside dimension, another to the inside and glue 'em and drill 'em.

Newer shutters use standard hole sizes, 00, 0, 1, 2, & 3. Shutters as old as yours didn't have standard sizes. In some cases, though; close enough is good enough

I'm still curious to know the lens board and hole size. The original question got derailed somewhere along the way.

[Kris Bochenek]

I will measure all out tomorrow as my camera stayed at the office. The lens mounts to a flange that is mounted to the board.

[Kris Bochenek]

The board is 4x4 with 1-3/4" Dia hole for the lens. The lens itself is mounted on to a flange. There is a slight light trap on the back of the board.