Dallmeyer Pentac f=10" f/2.9

[scottmorgan]

Picked up Dallmeyer Pentac f=10" f/2.9 and cant find out to much information on this lens? Have seen lots about smaller 8" version

Anyone know of it value and if its any good

Many Thanks

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[Mark Sawyer]

It's attributes are pretty obvious; it's a fast 10-inch lens. It's a five-element derivative of the Cooke Triplet, having a formula similar to the Heliar. Whether it's "any good" depends on whether you appreciate its character. It's not very well corrected wide open; some people like that, some don't. If it's uncoated, it will be somewhat low in contrast, (as you'd expect). Put it on a lens board and see what you think!

[scottmorgan]

Thanks for the information Mark, do you know what they fetch second hand?

[scottmorgan]

Having a problem mounting this as it too big, anyone else mounted this lens on a camera and if so what one, I have a Speed Graphic?

[mdarnton]

I put a 300/4.5 Heliar on a Graflex Super D once by making sort of a reversed sunken board--at the back it fit the camera, in front of that was a square extension tube, as large as I could make and leave enough board edge at the back for the camera to hold on to, then the front was slightly larger, with room for the lens to be put on by bolting the mounting ring on the front, outside, the whole thing made of 1/8" plywood glued together.

For this application, I'd try starting with a box the full external size of the board, with slits at the back for the lensboard locks to slide into (like a Graflock back fitting), then a front panel that's oversized--large enough for the lens to mount on. You might get some vignetting, more the longer your tube (the back of the lens is probably larger than the hole in the standard, behind the board, right?), so I'd make the tube as short and large as possible, to minimize that.

[fecaleagle]

Where are you located Scott? In my wildest dreams you're actually the videographer named Scott Morgan who lives down the street from me, but assuming that you're not, someone from the forum was looking for one of these in July of this year. That thread is here (http://www.largeformatphotography.info/forum/showthread.php?105794-WTB-10-quot-12-quot-(250mm-300mm)-f2-9-Dallmeyer-Pentac-or-equivalent-lens). You may not have access to the For Sale/Wanted section of the forum at this point, but...


A couple of 10" pentacs sold not too long ago on ebay in the $1200-1500 range, fwiw.

That member (not EdSawyer) did find one, so I'm not giving you a sales lead, but I guess that may give you a ballpark estimate of the market for them. I would say, take mdarnton's (and [from APUG] dan's) advice and try to use the thing! I would say they're very desirable in that focal length, but as always it depends on the condition.

Edit: There's one (254mm f/2.9) right now on that despicable auction site to which I cannot link.

[scottmorgan]

I put a 300/4.5 Heliar on a Graflex Super D once by making sort of a reversed sunken board--at the back it fit the camera, in front of that was a square extension tube, as large as I could make and leave enough board edge at the back for the camera to hold on to, then the front was slightly larger, with room for the lens to be put on by bolting the mounting ring on the front, outside, the whole thing made of 1/8" plywood glued together.

For this application, I'd try starting with a box the full external size of the board, with slits at the back for the lensboard locks to slide into (like a Graflock back fitting), then a front panel that's oversized--large enough for the lens to mount on. You might get some vignetting, more the longer your tube (the back of the lens is probably larger than the hole in the standard, behind the board, right?), so I'd make the tube as short and large as possible, to minimize that.

Thanks for the information but i think it going to be a lot of work getting this on my speed graphic. :(


Where are you located Scott? In my wildest dreams you're actually the videographer named Scott Morgan who lives down the street from me, but assuming that you're not, someone from the forum was looking for one of these in July of this year. That thread is here (http://www.largeformatphotography.info/forum/showthread.php?105794-WTB-10-quot-12-quot-(250mm-300mm)-f2-9-Dallmeyer-Pentac-or-equivalent-lens). You may not have access to the For Sale/Wanted section of the forum at this point, but...



That member (not EdSawyer) did find one, so I'm not giving you a sales lead, but I guess that may give you a ballpark estimate of the market for them. I would say, take mdarnton's (and [from APUG] dan's) advice and try to use the thing! I would say they're very desirable in that focal length, but as always it depends on the condition.

Edit: There's one (254mm f/2.9) right now on that despicable auction site to which I cannot link.

I live in the UK so i'm not the guy down your street haha.

Cant see the thread but will keep hold of it a little wile to see if I can use it.

[EdSawyer]

it would probably work better on a camera with a larger lensboard. I'd try a Graflex RB SuperD, personally. Still has a focal plane shutter.

[Jason Greenberg Motamedi]

A 10" Pentac won't fit on a Graflex Super D without rebuilding the front standard, and would probably need a custom stand-off lensboard to fit on a Speed Graphic. They do work nicely on a 5x7 Home Portrait. The 10" models used to be uncommon, but there seems to be quite a few of them showing up recently on ebay and elsewhere. Many seem to be unused. I bought mine from a friend who got a box of them NATO surplus.

[fecaleagle]

A 10" Pentac won't fit on a Graflex Super D without rebuilding the front standard, and would probably need a custom stand-off lensboard to fit on a Speed Graphic. They do work nicely on a 5x7 Home Portrait. The 10" models used to be uncommon, but there seems to be quite a few of them showing up recently on ebay and elsewhere. Many seem to be unused. I bought mine from a friend who got a box of them NATO surplus.

What is the approximate OD of the flange & the approximate OD of the barrel? 10" and that fast does sound really big for a 4x5 standard/board.

I'm curious to know how much that late-model, unused one on the auction site is going to go for... Sure it will skyrocket out of my price range in the last few hours tomorrow.

How much did your friend pay for that treasure chest?

[EdSawyer]

Rebuilding a custom front standard or lensboard is going to be expected on any camera with a lens like this.

"A 10" Pentac won't fit on a Graflex Super D without rebuilding the front standard, and would probably need a custom stand-off lensboard to fit..."

[scottmorgan]

Just a update on the lens, got it mounted in the end and have given it a test and loving the results wide open at F2.9 :)

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[Pete Roody]

I have the same lens mounted to a 5"x5" board for my Graflex home Portrait. A speed graphic has a smaller board so it may not be the best fit. Most people shoot the 8" version with a speed or Super D.

[Seele]

I am looking at the Dallmeyer catalogue from the early 1980s. Data on the 10"/2.9 Pentac: total angle of field 42˚, lens mount thread Whitworth 88.9X12, maximum barrel diameter (at aperture ring) 106.9, overall length 100.5, from flange face to back of barrel 19.4, back focus from back of lens to focal plane at infinity 211.7.

[Ian Greenhalgh]

Very nice result scott. Sadly my 8" Pentac has a front glass that looks sandblasted. :(

[EdSawyer]

Nice shot. Looks a touch softer than I'd expect, but still very nice. I use an 8" pentac on a 3x4 RB SuperD modified to a 4x5 graflock back. Works great, gets to infinity, a great solution for that camera. Better than the AE, which won't reach infinity on the 3x4 SuperD.

[Misko]

Ed - Unless you alter the camera a lot :(

[scottmorgan]

Here is the beauty attached to my Speedgraphic :)

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[Misko]

I will just say "Wow!"

[Tin Can]

I guess I better mount my 8" version. It's the first big odd lens I acquired and I have yet to actually shoot it. I have glared at it on a DIY GG trying to figure out LF on a copy camera, it's taking me a while to get up to speed. Oops, that's a pun, I will mount to my Speed, sooner or later.


Here is the beauty attached to my Speedgraphic :)

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[Ian Greenhalgh]

Impressive job Scott. Can you share some details of how you got it mounted? Doesn't the weight place strain on the front standard or have you done something with the mounting to take care of that issue?

[EdSawyer]

Misko: the mirror would need shortening for ae to reach infinity on 3x4 superD. More trouble than its worth, imnsho.

[Misko]

True Ed. Unfortunately it's the only way :( I also have Xenotar 150mm and I would love to use it on 3x4 Super D but it also needs cutting of the mirror & reposition of the upper GG holding frame. :(

[Jason Greenberg Motamedi]

So those "Aeroliberators" don't go to infinity focus?

[Misko]

They do. They've been cut & altered in that way to make that possible. Lot's of work is needed to do all that. Not that it's impossible - but takes some time and patience. I've just altered mine 3x4 to carry 4x5 Graflok / International back (in vertical format) and it took some time to do it nicely...

[EdSawyer]

misko: agreed, cutting and much hassle required, and even then may not reach infinity with AE. I have 150 xenotar too, but I put it on a speedgraphic instead. Jason: I think Minnicks might have modified a 3x4 superD enough to get infinity with AE. I am not sure - I have read posts from him where he said it doesn't go to infinity. But have heard otherwise too. So - hard to say. in any case, way more hassle than it's worth, I think, esp. when there are other great fast choices that do go to infinity with no mods required (Pentac 8" for example.)

Misko, I have a 4x5 graflok back on my 3x4 superD also, in vertical format. It was a bit of work but came out ok. I have pics of it here somewhere in the LF DIY threads (show your camera thread maybe?)

The Nikkor 270-T is a nice choice on the 3x4 SuperD also. reaches infinity just perfectly, no problems.

[Jason Greenberg Motamedi]

Thanks Misko and Ed for your responses. I have a 3x4 Graflex D with the slotted back removed, and the 4x5 back ready to be attached, but got distracted with other projects. Maybe I will go back and look at it again.

[Misko]

A guy whom I know & with whom I am often exchanging experiences in modifications we do is altering his Graflex Super D 3x4 to accept Xenotar 150 2.8 & Aero Ektar 178 2.5 as we write this. He basically is close to an end of his project and so far it seems that all is working great. Just like me - he converted his back to 4x5 Graflok too (though he went for horizontal frame) and added a chimney viewer made of compendium, magnifier lens & soft pad instead original Graflex viewer. Camera starts to look cool. His AE can focus on infinity though Xenotar's furthest focusing point is if I remember 100" - which is not bad at all.

John Minnicks "Liberator" modifications are really great. His cameras focus to infinity, have Shift & Tilt possible even on infinity focus (something that most other people didn't manage to make) and so on… My only problem is the price which is way above what I am capable of paying but if I would have the money - I would 100% go for John's mod in a blink of an eye!

To get slightly back to the topic - I like Pentac's image qualities & traits and I honestly believe it's much sharper than Aero Ektar but on the other hand I have to say that AE178 has somehow more pleasant look than Pentac has & it's no wonder that people hunt machines that could accept it. On the other hand if one rally wants & has access to mechanics and people capable of doing things for him - there is nothing that cannot be done - even if we need to rebuild the camera completely. :) It just depends how crazy about it we are - but most of us want 10 different lenses, 10 different backs, 10 different films to use on all times :)

Unfortunately I don't know how to post images from Flickr on LFP forum :( (which I see some people do) so here are the links to my:
a) "Conquistador 01" (Graflex Super D 3x4): http://www.flickr.com/photos/milosgazdic/10213311446/
b) "Conquistador 02" (Mentor Reflex 9x12cm): http://www.flickr.com/photos/milosgazdic/10235523716/ and
c) "Conquistador 03" (Graflex Series D 4x5): http://www.flickr.com/photos/milosgazdic/10271843374/

I wish to buy another Graflex SUPER D 4x5 where I could leave camera in original form (with original front standard & back) and use it like that with bag mag in the studio with flashes. Also I would like another Super D 3x4 so I can alter it to for usage with Xenotar & Aero Ektar & modify again to accept 4x5 holders (doesn't have to be Graflok at the end since it seems we will loose all the Polaroid films as the times goes by).

I am very sorry for getting so much off topic! I hope original poster, Scott - will not be angry?

[Jason Greenberg Motamedi]

Getting back to topic, Scott's image seems very typical for Pentacs wide open. I wouldn't call them soft--they are filled with detail--but have a glow from halation. I have gone through more than a dozen 8" Pentacs, both uncoated ex-MOD and a few single-coated late issues, to try to find the perfect one. They all have halation at f2.9, but usually closing a half-stop will remove most of it. My 10" Pentac, a coated new-old-stock lens from the late 1960s shows the same effect. I like the glow, but it doesn't work for all images.

[EdSawyer]

Agreed about the glow. It's basically gone by f/4, on mine I find. A nice lens, no doubt. I haven't compared closely between AE and Pentac, but both are sharp and with nice smooth bokeh.

Misko thanks for sharing those links, will check them out.

-Ed

[scottmorgan]

Here is shot with the setup, wide open at F2.9 :)

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[Robert H]

Wonderful image !